Service Manuals Needed for RA60, RA81 and/or RA92 - DEC

This is a discussion on Service Manuals Needed for RA60, RA81 and/or RA92 - DEC ; On Feb 13, 12:00 pm, "G. Economou" wrote: > heh, we havent had much snow this winter, until last night. about 3-4 > inches sitting now and it's still coming down. a microvax is keeping the > living room warm. ...

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Thread: Service Manuals Needed for RA60, RA81 and/or RA92

  1. Re: Free to a good home

    On Feb 13, 12:00 pm, "G. Economou" wrote:
    > heh, we havent had much snow this winter, until last night. about 3-4
    > inches sitting now and it's still coming down. a microvax is keeping the
    > living room warm.
    >
    > On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 bob.bi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Close but no cigar...I have a user looking
    > > for a RA82 and TU81. The Burg, my hometown.
    > > Great place cept' for the snow !



    Wow, just read it will be -9 this afternoon
    in the Burg ! Whoa... too cold for me even
    with a UVax.
    Noticed your email address using a Carnegie
    Mellon U. server, and had an old CMU question
    for you or any old timers at CMU.
    Back in the early 70's DEC came out with the
    PDP-11/35 (oem version of the 11/40) and it was
    one of the first machines with a writable control
    store (WCS) board (forgot the bd# ?). Later a couple
    guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    field but heard about it?
    Was there really such an board and company?
    I think there was, but I was never able to confirm
    or see it.
    Have you or any of our old CMU DEC'ies ever heard
    of it ??


  2. Re: Free to a good home

    On Feb 14, 9:06 am, bob.bi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Feb 13, 12:00 pm, "G. Economou" wrote:
    >
    > > heh, we havent had much snow this winter, until last night. about 3-4
    > > inches sitting now and it's still coming down. a microvax is keeping the
    > > living room warm.

    >
    > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 bob.bi...@gmail.com wrote:

    >
    > > > Close but no cigar...I have a user looking
    > > > for a RA82 and TU81. The Burg, my hometown.
    > > > Great place cept' for the snow !

    >
    > Wow, just read it will be -9 this afternoon
    > in the Burg ! Whoa... too cold for me even
    > with a UVax.
    > Noticed your email address using a Carnegie
    > Mellon U. server, and had an old CMU question
    > for you or any old timers at CMU.
    > Back in the early 70's DEC came out with the
    > PDP-11/35 (oem version of the 11/40) and it was
    > one of the first machines with a writable control
    > store (WCS) board (forgot the bd# ?). Later a couple
    > guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    > built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    > field but heard about it?
    > Was there really such an board and company?
    > I think there was, but I was never able to confirm
    > or see it.
    > Have you or any of our old CMU DEC'ies ever heard
    > of it ??


    Well to answer my own question: after Googling
    the web I found out I was right.
    This link and page #13 of it's long PDF file
    quotes "Brian Rosen" one of the founders of
    3RCC saying "....Pg 13 ....CMU had an active
    engineering lab headed by Bill Broadly that
    built hardware for CS research.

    He,Stan Kritz, Jim Teter, Paul Newberry
    and Brian Rosen Founded 3RCC.

    ...built several interesting projects, including the WCS
    for the 11/40.....later the Perq workstations....."

    I got close to one in the field and was told it was a
    3RCC WCS for the 11/35. I saw it in the WCS slot
    but didn't get close enuff' to confirm it. Later the
    scuttlebutt was DEC sued 3RCC, won and later
    came out with the 11-60 that featured WCS.

    Here's the link:
    www.rddavis.org/files/perq/theperq-2006.pdf -

    Maybe some of the old 3RCC guys are still
    working at CMU ?









  3. Re: Free to a good home

    On 14 Feb 2007 09:06:51 -0800, bob.birch@gmail.com wrote:



    >Later a couple
    >guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    >built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    >field but heard about it?
    >Was there really such an board and company?


    Yes. Three Rivers and WCS = Perq to me. Google it. Here's one of mine:

    http://www.corestore.org/perq1WEB.jpg

    Mike
    --
    http://www.corestore.org
    'As I walk along these shores
    I am the history within'

  4. Re: Free to a good home

    bob.birch@gmail.com wrote:
    > Later a couple
    > guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    > built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    > field but heard about it?
    > Was there really such an board and company?


    Three Rivers existed. I have an A/D converter box they
    built. Later, they were the only bidder on the CMU Spice
    workstation project, and built the PERQ.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the WCS board wasn't associated
    in some way with the CMU CMMP project (multiprocessor 11/40)

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  5. Re: Computers as heaters

    Carl Appellof wrote:
    > Nor much power for the rest of the dorm if you're talking about a KL.
    > Nothing like ECL logic to generate a little heat.


    One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.

  6. Re: Free to a good home

    On Feb 14, 9:46 am, Al _Kossow wrote:
    > bob.bi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > Later a couple
    > > guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    > > built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    > > field but heard about it?
    > > Was there really such an board and company?

    >
    > Three Rivers existed. I have an A/D converter box they
    > built. Later, they were the only bidder on the CMU Spice
    > workstation project, and built the PERQ.


    The document on the web says it was 1974 and
    the A-D and D-A were designed for speech and
    music research. A 16 bit device, which was unheard
    of at the time.
    Amazing amount of detail in the document and they
    still have the alt.sys.perq newgroup.
    Users still follow the Perq and it must
    be a cult machine, like some of the old DEC
    stuff.
    Geez I never knew anything about them, but
    they shipped over 150 systems to CMU !
    Big in the UK and ICL built them.
    >
    > It wouldn't surprise me if the WCS board wasn't associated
    > in some way with the CMU CMMP project (multiprocessor 11/40)


    Couldn't find much on this, but it must be one
    of their first devices. It looks like all the Perq
    systems had WCS.


    >
    > --
    > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com




  7. Re: Free to a good home

    I used to measure , somewhat facetiously, the efficiency of computers
    in dhrystones per transistor-clock.. howmuch work can the machine get done
    versus how many gates and how many clocks it has.. usually gratuitous
    power consumption is a mark of glorious retro status



    On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Ben Myers wrote:

    > We need some sort of new metric here to counteract the newfangled flops per
    > watt. But this one is potentially three dimensional, taking into account BTUs,
    > instruction set, and cubic feet occupied by computer. It boggles the mind so
    > much I can't come up with an appropriate metric. Or maybe it's late at night?
    > I'll sleep on it, and after my energizing morning coffee, maybe it will come to
    > mind... Ben Myers
    >
    > On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:25:06 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Ben Myers wrote:
    >>
    >> (snip on keeping a room warm)
    >>
    >>> What a creative use for a microVAX! ... Ben Myers

    >>
    >> I have heard that they are good for dorm rooms where heaters
    >> aren't allowed but computers are. For more heat, a Sun3 is
    >> better. A pdp-10 should do even better, but there might
    >> not be much room left for a person.
    >>
    >> -- glen

    >


  8. Re: Free to a good home


    unlikely, these were hung from a vax 11/750.
    (both of my '750s found good homes a few years ago.. one fellow drove
    700 miles each way to pick one of them up! (bettering my own record for
    driving 600-odd miles to salvage a computer))


    On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Eric Smith wrote:

    > "G. Economou" writes:
    >> I have two RA81s free to a good home. Last been powered up something on the
    >> order of 8 or 9 years ago.

    >
    > If there's any chance of those RA81s having 18-bit HDAs (rather than
    > the more common 16-bit HDA used on the PDP-11 and VAX), I want 'em.
    >


  9. Re: Free to a good home


    this one doesnt exclusively heat the room... 600-odd watts dissipation,
    enough to make this room a couple degrees warmer than the rest of the place,
    but not enough to heat it all by itself. yeah, apollos give off a lot of watts..
    or a sun3.. that stuff runs hot..


    On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > In article ,
    > "G. Economou" writes:
    >>
    >> VAX- More BTU's per instruction!

    >
    > None of my MicroVAX's generate enough heat to warm a room, especially
    > in the winter. However....... I used to have an Apollo Workstation.
    > Now that one could make a room uncomfortably hot even in the dead of
    > winter.
    >
    > bill
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Ben Myers wrote:
    >>
    >>> What a creative use for a microVAX! ... Ben Myers
    >>>
    >>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:00:19 -0500, "G. Economou"
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> heh, we havent had much snow this winter, until last night. about 3-4
    >>>> inches sitting now and it's still coming down. a microvax is keeping the
    >>>> living room warm.
    >>>>
    >>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 bob.birch@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Close but no cigar...I have a user looking
    >>>>> for a RA82 and TU81. The Burg, my hometown.
    >>>>> Great place cept' for the snow !
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>

    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include
    >


  10. Re: Free to a good home

    yup, i'm in the PDL (once upon a time a haven of alpha and bsd hacking)
    ...from what i heard there really was a three rivers computer company, and
    ive seen a couple of pictures somewhere to convince me that they at least
    made an actual machine or two. i've not been here _that_ long (came to
    pgh in 94 for my undergrad)

    -9 here? nah, the lowest it got this afternoon/evening was about 15.
    Maybe -9 with windchill, but that's different.
    lots of ice on everything now, got a lot of freezing rain last night.

    On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 bob.birch@gmail.com wrote:
    > Wow, just read it will be -9 this afternoon
    > in the Burg ! Whoa... too cold for me even
    > with a UVax.
    > Noticed your email address using a Carnegie
    > Mellon U. server, and had an old CMU question
    > for you or any old timers at CMU.
    > Back in the early 70's DEC came out with the
    > PDP-11/35 (oem version of the 11/40) and it was
    > one of the first machines with a writable control
    > store (WCS) board (forgot the bd# ?). Later a couple
    > guys at CMU started Three Rivers Computer and
    > built there own WCS board. I never saw one in the
    > field but heard about it?
    > Was there really such an board and company?
    > I think there was, but I was never able to confirm
    > or see it.
    > Have you or any of our old CMU DEC'ies ever heard
    > of it ??
    >
    >


  11. Re: Free to a good home


    That machine is still collecting dust up on the 9th floor of Wean hall.
    it's sort of a pilgrimage site (more so because it requires gaining access
    to the 9th floor, which is mostly elevator machinery and air handlers and
    requires some, er, elevator modifications to get there).
    When i first came across it up there years ago i was surprised and amazed,
    shouting 'ive read papers about this machine! ive seen this machine in old
    network maps!'

    'twas very cool.

    On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Al _Kossow wrote:
    > It wouldn't surprise me if the WCS board wasn't associated
    > in some way with the CMU CMMP project (multiprocessor 11/40)
    >


  12. Re: Computers as heaters

    Eric Smith wrote:
    > Carl Appellof wrote:
    >> Nor much power for the rest of the dorm if you're talking about a KL.
    >> Nothing like ECL logic to generate a little heat.

    >
    > One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    > better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    > gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    > year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.


    *Any* computer functions as a "better than 99% efficient heater". So
    does a light bulb. The only loss is due to RFI, sound generation, and
    light generation.

    The problem is you would like to do better than that, and hence the existence
    of the heat pump. A heat pump concentrates, and transports heat from
    one place to another. Because it takes heat that already exists
    somewhere else, and moves it to the room being heated (kind of like taking a
    cup of coffee from the lunch room to your office), it is many times
    more efficient at heating a room than a resistance heater (such as a computer).

    -Chuck

  13. Re: Computers as heaters

    In article ,
    Eric Smith wrote:
    >One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    >better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    >gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    >year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.


    I live in Houston and I've been leaving my dual-core AMD on overnight because
    we're having a cold snap and I don't normally worry about heating here.

    --
    "The notion that the church, the press, and the universities should serve the
    state is essentially a Communist notion... In a free society these institutions
    must be wholly free - which is to say that their function is to serve as checks
    upon the state." -- Alan Barth WWFD Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.

  14. Re: Computers as heaters

    You'll NEVER get a job in AMD's PR department! :>) ... Ben Myers

    On 15 Feb 2007 12:57:54 GMT, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:

    >In article ,
    >Eric Smith wrote:
    >>One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    >>better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    >>gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    >>year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.

    >
    >I live in Houston and I've been leaving my dual-core AMD on overnight because
    >we're having a cold snap and I don't normally worry about heating here.


  15. Re: Free to a good home

    Richard wrote:
    > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]


    > bob.birch@gmail.com spake the secret code
    > <1171402472.493247.173010@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups. com> thusly:


    >>It would be slick if Bit Saver had a directory of audio
    >>sounds like HD start ups or tapes loading or card
    >>readers, card punches..


    >


    Nifty! Are there any more files in that directory? The server won't
    let me list the contents.

    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  16. Re: Free to a good home

    [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave Griffith) spake the secret code
    thusly:

    >Richard wrote:


    >>

    >
    >Nifty! Are there any more files in that directory? The server won't
    >let me list the contents.


    Nope.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download


    Legalize Adulthood!

  17. Re: Computers as heaters

    On 14 Feb 2007 16:46:49 -0800, Eric Smith wrote:

    >Carl Appellof wrote:
    >> Nor much power for the rest of the dorm if you're talking about a KL.
    >> Nothing like ECL logic to generate a little heat.

    >
    >One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    >better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    >gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    >year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.


    Back when I worked for First Data (the original First Data, not the
    current one) we were located on Totten Pond Road in Waltham Mass. We
    had a fire in our building and decided to relocate to 40 Second
    Avenue, across 128 from our original building. We decided to replace
    our fire damaged KAs and KIs with the then new KLs. We had a raised
    floor computer room installed in the warehouse we had purchased (with
    our insurance settlement) and had the cooling system designed so that
    we could use the output of the heat exchangers to heat the rest of the
    building. Even though the old heating plant remained in the building I
    don't believe it was ever necessary to turn it on. The KLs provided
    all the heat we needed.

    --
    jeverett3sbcglobalnet (John V. Everett)

  18. Re: Computers as heaters

    Chuck Harris writes:
    > *Any* computer functions as a "better than 99% efficient heater".
    > So does a light bulb.


    Just go and spill the beans, why don't you? I was trying to convince
    people that they should get themselves KL10 systems. :-)

    > The only loss is due to RFI, sound generation, and light generation.


    Actually most of the sound will turn into heat in the room also, unless
    you have the windows or doors open. Similarly much of the RFI and
    light is likely to become heat.

    > The problem is you would like to do better than that, and hence the
    > existence of the heat pump.


    Sure, but there are large parts of the US in which heat pumps are not
    practical for heating buildings in the winter. Where I am currently,
    the San Francsico bay area, they would work fine almost all of the
    time. But where I grew up in Colorado, they would be useless during
    much of the winter.

  19. Re: Computers as heaters

    In article ,
    John Everett wrote:

    'ey, John. :-)


    >On 14 Feb 2007 16:46:49 -0800, Eric Smith wrote:
    >
    >>Carl Appellof wrote:
    >>> Nor much power for the rest of the dorm if you're talking about a KL.
    >>> Nothing like ECL logic to generate a little heat.

    >>
    >>One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    >>better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    >>gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    >>year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.

    >
    >Back when I worked for First Data (the original First Data, not the
    >current one) we were located on Totten Pond Road in Waltham Mass. We
    >had a fire in our building and decided to relocate to 40 Second
    >Avenue, across 128 from our original building. We decided to replace
    >our fire damaged KAs and KIs with the then new KLs. We had a raised
    >floor computer room installed in the warehouse we had purchased (with
    >our insurance settlement) and had the cooling system designed so that
    >we could use the output of the heat exchangers to heat the rest of the
    >building. Even though the old heating plant remained in the building I
    >don't believe it was ever necessary to turn it on. The KLs provided
    >all the heat we needed.


    Marlboro liked to keep their humans cold. I often went into
    the machine room and cuddled against 1026 to get warm. Whenever
    I was using the 11/70, I'd have to get up and cuddle next to
    1026 every half hour or so.

    /BAH

  20. Re: Computers as heaters

    >>Carl Appellof wrote:
    >>> Nor much power for the rest of the dorm if you're talking about a
    >>> KL. Nothing like ECL logic to generate a little heat.

    >>
    >>One of the great features of the KL10 is that it also functions as a
    >>better than 99% efficient electric heater. If you live somewhere that
    >>gets cold in the winter, use it to heat your house. The rest of the
    >>year, you can use it with a heat pump to heat your swimming pool.


    While conversion of electricity to heat is very effecient, conversion of
    other energy sources to electricity isn't. Consequently electric
    heating may be much more expensive than burning fuels on site. Around
    here that's reflected in energy prices that used to favour natural gas
    by a factor of 6 over electricity. I haven't checked lately but I'm
    sure it's still a substantical factor - wouldn't surprize me if it were
    more now.

    On the other hand, as a byproduct that you're paying for anyway...

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    A L B E R T A Alfred Falk falk@arc.ab.ca
    R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185
    C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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