Large Computer Rescue - DEC

This is a discussion on Large Computer Rescue - DEC ; Great News!!! The Houston Computer Museum has been give two great collections, one in GA and one in KS. We need your help to travel and collect these items, the estimated cost $1400 for GA and $300 for KS. If ...

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Thread: Large Computer Rescue

  1. Large Computer Rescue

    Great News!!! The Houston Computer Museum has been give two great
    collections, one in GA and one in KS. We need your help to travel and
    collect these items, the estimated cost $1400 for GA and $300 for KS. If
    you can send a small or large donation to help, please send your check to
    our address below or go to our website www.houstoncomputermuseum.org and our
    donation page there to use your credit card. If just 1700 people sent us one
    dollar each, we could add these wonderful items to our collections.


    Mailing address Houston Computer Museum, 15827 Thistledew Dr., Houston, TX
    77082.

    Some of the items are a SEL 810A computer, ASR33, manuals and many other
    related items for this machine in KS. In GA we have IBM 083 card sorter,
    IBM 552 card interpreter, IBM 029 and 129 card punches, IBM patch boards,
    repair parts for IBM equipment from the 60's, SWTP computer and parts, plus
    many more items.



  2. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    fields on cards?
    That is some really old stuff, it was amazing to watch it work - when I was
    a kid I would go to the office with my Dad and help him do payroll runs on
    the weekend that were already late - no wonder the unions in NYC used to
    bitch all the time

    --
    Art
    "Keys" wrote in message
    news:e6qc80$kt2@dispatch.concentric.net...
    > Great News!!! The Houston Computer Museum has been give two great
    > collections, one in GA and one in KS. We need your help to travel and
    > collect these items, the estimated cost $1400 for GA and $300 for KS. If
    > you can send a small or large donation to help, please send your check to
    > our address below or go to our website www.houstoncomputermuseum.org and
    > our donation page there to use your credit card. If just 1700 people sent
    > us one dollar each, we could add these wonderful items to our collections.
    >
    >
    > Mailing address Houston Computer Museum, 15827 Thistledew Dr., Houston, TX
    > 77082.
    >
    > Some of the items are a SEL 810A computer, ASR33, manuals and many other
    > related items for this machine in KS. In GA we have IBM 083 card sorter,
    > IBM 552 card interpreter, IBM 029 and 129 card punches, IBM patch boards,
    > repair parts for IBM equipment from the 60's, SWTP computer and parts,
    > plus many more items.
    >




  3. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article , "Art M - Artfromny" writes:

    > I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    > generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    > fields on cards?


    I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.

    (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
    the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
    instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
    program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).


  4. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
    >In article , "Art M - Artfromny"

    writes:
    >
    >> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    >> generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    >> fields on cards?

    >
    > I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    > sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    > IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.


    I had them memorized and my fingers may still remember. I'd
    need a keypunch though. Just open the drum card door. They
    were documented on the door.

    /BAH



  5. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    "Art M - Artfromny" writes:

    >I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    >generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    >fields on cards?


    Basic drum card layout:

    Field definition: row 12 (program 1) or 4 (program 2)
    Autoskip: row 11/5
    Autodup: row 0/6
    Alpha shift: row 1/7
    Left zero controls: rows 2-3/8-9 (no, I don't recall the coding)

    There was always a cheat sheet (installed at the factory) on the inside
    of the cover that protected the drum card.

    Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
    and skip out to the next card:

    cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
    12345678901234567890123456789 567890
    row: ------------------------------------------
    12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
    11 o
    0 o
    1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo


    Autodup copied the data from the preceeding card into the same columns
    on the card currently at the punch station. There was an extra-cost
    option "aux dup" that allowed the operator to copy data from a card
    on a second drum but I never saw an 026 or 029 with this capability.
    IIRC you pressed the "aux dup" button on the keyboard; it acted like
    the regular "dup" button but read from the second drum rather than the
    card at the read station.

    Joe Morris

  6. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    >
    > I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    > sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    > IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.


    RGVAC=rec.games.video.arcade.collecting, one of the groups
    this was posted to.




  7. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article ,
    "me" wrote:
    >"Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    >news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    >>
    >> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    >> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    >> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.

    >
    >RGVAC=rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,


    Ah! Thank you.

    > one of the groups
    >this was posted to.


    Arcades? Did they use drum cards?

    /BAH


  8. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    Well youngster first thing I ever did was change tapes on a 705
    mainframe running for the Comptrollers Office, City of NY

    when the 360s came out they thought they died and went to heaven

    --
    Art
    "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    > In article , "Art M - Artfromny"
    > writes:
    >
    >> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    >> generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    >> fields on cards?

    >
    > I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    > sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    > IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
    >
    > (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
    > the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
    > instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
    > program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).
    >




  9. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    > sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    > IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
    >
    > (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
    > the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
    > instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
    > program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).


    I've got several green cards and some number of yellow cards.
    I've also got a quick&dirty conversion of gcard ios3270 to html
    up
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html

    gcard ios3270 was attempt to emulate a lot of the green card with
    online 3270 screens. it doesn't quite have everything ... it doesn't
    have the punch card hole equivalences for bcd and ebcdic

  10. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article ,
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
    >
    >gcard ios3270 was attempt to emulate a lot of the green card with
    >online 3270 screens. it doesn't quite have everything ... it doesn't
    >have the punch card hole equivalences for bcd and ebcdic


    That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
    --
    From the moment I picked your book up until I put it down I was
    convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it.
    -- Groucho Marx, from "The Book of Insults"

  11. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article , jcmorris@mitre.org
    (Joe Morris) writes:

    > "Art M - Artfromny" writes:
    >
    >> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew)
    >> how to generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches
    >> for repetitve fields on cards?

    >
    > Basic drum card layout:
    >
    > Field definition: row 12 (program 1) or 4 (program 2)
    > Autoskip: row 11/5
    > Autodup: row 0/6
    > Alpha shift: row 1/7
    > Left zero controls: rows 2-3/8-9 (no, I don't recall the coding)
    >
    > There was always a cheat sheet (installed at the factory) on the inside
    > of the cover that protected the drum card.
    >
    > Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
    > and skip out to the next card:
    >
    > cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
    > 12345678901234567890123456789 567890
    > row: ------------------------------------------
    > 12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
    > 11 o
    > 0 o
    > 1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo


    I see you remembered the alpha shift on the auto-dup field. That
    was something I'd automatically include, since otherwise the keypunch
    would hang in the middle of the autodup operation. I never did
    understand why it would do this, but discovered that holding down
    the ALPH key would unfreeze it long enough to finish the current
    card so I could then correct my drum card.

    This didn't happen with auto-skip fields, so I never bothered
    punching row 1 for them, but AFAIK row 1 was ignored on auto-skip
    fields anyway.

    > Autodup copied the data from the preceeding card into the same columns
    > on the card currently at the punch station. There was an extra-cost
    > option "aux dup" that allowed the operator to copy data from a card
    > on a second drum but I never saw an 026 or 029 with this capability.
    > IIRC you pressed the "aux dup" button on the keyboard; it acted like
    > the regular "dup" button but read from the second drum rather than the
    > card at the read station.


    I never saw a machine with that option either. I wonder how many of
    these special options ever made it out into the field...

    --
    /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
    \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
    X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
    / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!


  12. Re: Large Computer Rescue


    long ago as a student programmer, i had a summer job to port
    1401 MPIO program to 360/30. basically MPIO acted as front-end
    card->tape and tape->printer/punch for the univerisity 709.
    they could run 360/30 in 1401 hardware emulation mode and run original
    MPIO ... so maybe it was just a make-work job for student programmer.

    i got to design and implement my own supervisor, task manager, device
    handlers, storage manager. it was eventaully about 2000 source
    assembler cards ... and my default mechanism was to assemble it under
    os/360 and then reboot the machine with stand-alone loader.

    to fix a bug in source and re-assemble ... was approx. an hour elapsed
    time ... rebooting os360, and then re-assembling my source program
    (which took half hour elapsed time). so i got relatively good at
    patching the "binary" card output of the assembler. I hadn't
    discovered "REP" cards ... so I would find the appropriate card
    .... and "multi-punch" a patch using a 026 keypunch (i.e. duplicate the
    card up to the patch, multi-punch the patch on the new card and then
    finish duplicating the rest of the card). after a while i got so i
    could read the key-punch holes as easily as i could read and interpret
    hex (I could fan the card deck looking for the TXT card with the
    relative program address of the location needing patching ... i.e.
    translating the punch holes in the card address field into hex).

    one representation that still sticks solidly in my mind is 0-2-9 punch
    holes for hex '02'. convention was that assembler and compiler binary
    executable output cards had 0-2-9 in column one, followed by
    executable control card "type" (i.e. ESD, TXT, RLD, END, etc).

    misc. past posts mentioning 0-2-9 and/or various 0-2-9 card
    formats
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#8 finding object decks with multiple entry points
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?)
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#60 Text (was: Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH)
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#31 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#45 Commenting style (was: Call for folklore)
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#41 Blade architectures
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#25 Early computer games
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#26 Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#11 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#20 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#46 Free to good home: IBM RT UNIX
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#17 IBM 610 workstation computer
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#43 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#58 REP cards


  13. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    I heard about punch cards and 50k hard disks the size of a small car
    and even into the 90's when a 40mb hard drive was 40,000$ TB storage is
    becoming more and more common on the High end of the computer storage.
    Hell I still remeber using a luggable to play games, 64kb memory and
    bootable 5+1/4 floppies.

    Now I will get to tell kids about how i used a 486 dx2-66 to go onto
    the internet when it was mostly "unsoiled"

    http://fourtymegfourtygrand.ytmnd.com/
    (fyi other sites from YTMND might be nsfw)

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , "Art M - Artfromny" writes:
    >
    > > I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
    > > generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
    > > fields on cards?

    >
    > I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
    > sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
    > IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
    >
    > (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
    > the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
    > instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
    > program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).



  14. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
    > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)


    PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.

    --
    Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
    Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
    www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

    S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

  15. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    In article <2425.392T345T5553642@kltpzyxm.invalid>, cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid
    (Charlie Gibbs) writes:

    >In article , jcmorris@mitre.org
    >(Joe Morris) writes:
    >
    >> Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
    >> and skip out to the next card:
    >>
    >> cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
    >> 12345678901234567890123456789 567890
    >> row: ------------------------------------------
    >> 12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
    >> 11 o
    >> 0 o
    >> 1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo

    >
    > I see you remembered the alpha shift on the auto-dup field. That
    > was something I'd automatically include, since otherwise the keypunch
    > would hang in the middle of the autodup operation. I never did
    > understand why it would do this, but discovered that holding down
    > the ALPH key would unfreeze it long enough to finish the current
    > card so I could then correct my drum card.


    Oops! I forgot to mention that this hanging on auto-dup occurred
    only if the column being duplicated was blank. For that matter,
    I think the keypunch hung even on a manual dup of a blank if
    your drum card didn't have a punch in row 1. Since I was mostly
    punching source code, I had a _lot_ of blanks. Maybe this
    "feature" was a part of numeric field verification, but to
    me it was just a pain in the ass. An easily avoided one,
    fortunately.

    --
    /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
    \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
    X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
    / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!


  16. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    Bob Kaplow wrote:
    > In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
    > > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)

    >
    > PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.


    Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
    We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
    to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
    Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
    Damn things were mighty tough.

    >
    > --
    > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
    > Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
    > www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
    >
    > S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!



  17. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
    trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
    what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
    of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
    guy ended up peppered with glass fragments. He was mightly lucky he wasn't
    blinded.

    wrote in message
    news:1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
    > Bob Kaplow wrote:
    >> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid
    >> (Michael Roach) writes:
    >> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)

    >>
    >> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.

    >
    > Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
    > We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
    > to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
    > Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
    > Damn things were mighty tough.
    >
    >>
    >> --
    >> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars
    >> (yet)! <<<
    >> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
    >> www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org
    >> www.nar.org
    >>
    >> S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

    >




  18. Re: Large Computer Rescue


    Steve Muccione wrote:
    > You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
    > trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
    > what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
    > of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
    > guy ended up peppered with glass fragments. He was mightly lucky he wasn't
    > blinded.


    Utter stupidity aside, my point was that you may very well break
    all the bones in your hand before you break the screen.

    >
    > wrote in message
    > news:1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
    > > Bob Kaplow wrote:
    > >> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid
    > >> (Michael Roach) writes:
    > >> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
    > >>
    > >> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.

    > >
    > > Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
    > > We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
    > > to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
    > > Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
    > > Damn things were mighty tough.
    > >
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars
    > >> (yet)! <<<
    > >> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
    > >> www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org
    > >> www.nar.org
    > >>
    > >> S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

    > >



  19. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
    >
    >Arcades? Did they use drum cards?


    I dunno about that, but I do have a juke box that uses core memory.

  20. Re: Large Computer Rescue

    Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
    of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
    the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
    batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
    stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
    They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing


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