I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
fields on cards?
That is some really old stuff, it was amazing to watch it work - when I was
a kid I would go to the office with my Dad and help him do payroll runs on
the weekend that were already late - no wonder the unions in NYC used to
bitch all the time

--
Art
"Keys" wrote in message
news:e6qc80$kt2@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Great News!!! The Houston Computer Museum has been give two great
> collections, one in GA and one in KS. We need your help to travel and
> collect these items, the estimated cost $1400 for GA and $300 for KS. If
> you can send a small or large donation to help, please send your check to
> our address below or go to our website www.houstoncomputermuseum.org and
> our donation page there to use your credit card. If just 1700 people sent
> us one dollar each, we could add these wonderful items to our collections.
>
>
> Mailing address Houston Computer Museum, 15827 Thistledew Dr., Houston, TX
> 77082.
>
> Some of the items are a SEL 810A computer, ASR33, manuals and many other
> related items for this machine in KS. In GA we have IBM 083 card sorter,
> IBM 552 card interpreter, IBM 029 and 129 card punches, IBM patch boards,
> repair parts for IBM equipment from the 60's, SWTP computer and parts,
> plus many more items.
>

In article , "Art M - Artfromny" writes:

> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
> generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
> fields on cards?

I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.

(For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).

In article ,
koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
>In article , "Art M - Artfromny"
writes:
>
>> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
>> generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
>> fields on cards?
>
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.

I had them memorized and my fingers may still remember. I'd
need a keypunch though. Just open the drum card door. They
were documented on the door.

/BAH

"Art M - Artfromny" writes:

>I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
>generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
>fields on cards?

Basic drum card layout:

Field definition: row 12 (program 1) or 4 (program 2)
Autoskip: row 11/5
Autodup: row 0/6
Alpha shift: row 1/7
Left zero controls: rows 2-3/8-9 (no, I don't recall the coding)

There was always a cheat sheet (installed at the factory) on the inside
of the cover that protected the drum card.

Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
and skip out to the next card:

cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
12345678901234567890123456789 567890
row: ------------------------------------------
12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
11 o
0 o
1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo


Autodup copied the data from the preceeding card into the same columns
on the card currently at the punch station. There was an extra-cost
option "aux dup" that allowed the operator to copy data from a card
on a second drum but I never saw an 026 or 029 with this capability.
IIRC you pressed the "aux dup" button on the keyboard; it acted like
the regular "dup" button but read from the second drum rather than the
card at the read station.

Joe Morris

"Bob Koehler" wrote in message
news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.

RGVAC=rec.games.video.arcade.collecting, one of the groups
this was posted to.

In article ,
"me" wrote:
>"Bob Koehler" wrote in message
>news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>>
>> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
>> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
>> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
>
>RGVAC=rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,

Ah! Thank you.

> one of the groups
>this was posted to.

Arcades? Did they use drum cards?

/BAH

Well youngster first thing I ever did was change tapes on a 705
mainframe running for the Comptrollers Office, City of NY

when the 360s came out they thought they died and went to heaven

--
Art
"Bob Koehler" wrote in message
news:TObrS9yC4vZz@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article , "Art M - Artfromny"
> writes:
>
>> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
>> generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
>> fields on cards?
>
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
>
> (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
> the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
> instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
> program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).
>

koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
>
> (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
> the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
> instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
> program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).

I've got several green cards and some number of yellow cards.
I've also got a quick&dirty conversion of gcard ios3270 to html
up
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html

gcard ios3270 was attempt to emulate a lot of the green card with
online 3270 screens. it doesn't quite have everything ... it doesn't
have the punch card hole equivalences for bcd and ebcdic

In article ,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>gcard ios3270 was attempt to emulate a lot of the green card with
>online 3270 screens. it doesn't quite have everything ... it doesn't
>have the punch card hole equivalences for bcd and ebcdic

That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
--
From the moment I picked your book up until I put it down I was
convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it.
-- Groucho Marx, from "The Book of Insults"

In article , jcmorris@mitre.org
(Joe Morris) writes:

> "Art M - Artfromny" writes:
>
>> I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew)
>> how to generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches
>> for repetitve fields on cards?
>
> Basic drum card layout:
>
> Field definition: row 12 (program 1) or 4 (program 2)
> Autoskip: row 11/5
> Autodup: row 0/6
> Alpha shift: row 1/7
> Left zero controls: rows 2-3/8-9 (no, I don't recall the coding)
>
> There was always a cheat sheet (installed at the factory) on the inside
> of the cover that protected the drum card.
>
> Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
> and skip out to the next card:
>
> cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
> 12345678901234567890123456789 567890
> row: ------------------------------------------
> 12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
> 11 o
> 0 o
> 1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo

I see you remembered the alpha shift on the auto-dup field. That
was something I'd automatically include, since otherwise the keypunch
would hang in the middle of the autodup operation. I never did
understand why it would do this, but discovered that holding down
the ALPH key would unfreeze it long enough to finish the current
card so I could then correct my drum card.

This didn't happen with auto-skip fields, so I never bothered
punching row 1 for them, but AFAIK row 1 was ignored on auto-skip
fields anyway.

> Autodup copied the data from the preceeding card into the same columns
> on the card currently at the punch station. There was an extra-cost
> option "aux dup" that allowed the operator to copy data from a card
> on a second drum but I never saw an 026 or 029 with this capability.
> IIRC you pressed the "aux dup" button on the keyboard; it acted like
> the regular "dup" button but read from the second drum rather than the
> card at the read station.

I never saw a machine with that option either. I wonder how many of
these special options ever made it out into the field...

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

long ago as a student programmer, i had a summer job to port
1401 MPIO program to 360/30. basically MPIO acted as front-end
card->tape and tape->printer/punch for the univerisity 709.
they could run 360/30 in 1401 hardware emulation mode and run original
MPIO ... so maybe it was just a make-work job for student programmer.

i got to design and implement my own supervisor, task manager, device
handlers, storage manager. it was eventaully about 2000 source
assembler cards ... and my default mechanism was to assemble it under
os/360 and then reboot the machine with stand-alone loader.

to fix a bug in source and re-assemble ... was approx. an hour elapsed
time ... rebooting os360, and then re-assembling my source program
(which took half hour elapsed time). so i got relatively good at
patching the "binary" card output of the assembler. I hadn't
discovered "REP" cards ... so I would find the appropriate card
.... and "multi-punch" a patch using a 026 keypunch (i.e. duplicate the
card up to the patch, multi-punch the patch on the new card and then
finish duplicating the rest of the card). after a while i got so i
could read the key-punch holes as easily as i could read and interpret
hex (I could fan the card deck looking for the TXT card with the
relative program address of the location needing patching ... i.e.
translating the punch holes in the card address field into hex).

one representation that still sticks solidly in my mind is 0-2-9 punch
holes for hex '02'. convention was that assembler and compiler binary
executable output cards had 0-2-9 in column one, followed by
executable control card "type" (i.e. ESD, TXT, RLD, END, etc).

misc. past posts mentioning 0-2-9 and/or various 0-2-9 card
formats
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#8 finding object decks with multiple entry points
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#60 Text (was: Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#31 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#45 Commenting style (was: Call for folklore)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#41 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#25 Early computer games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#26 Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#11 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#20 Is the solution FBA was Re: FW: Looking for Disk Calc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#46 Free to good home: IBM RT UNIX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#17 IBM 610 workstation computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#43 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#58 REP cards

I heard about punch cards and 50k hard disks the size of a small car
and even into the 90's when a 40mb hard drive was 40,000$ TB storage is
becoming more and more common on the High end of the computer storage.
Hell I still remeber using a luggable to play games, 64kb memory and
bootable 5+1/4 floppies.

Now I will get to tell kids about how i used a 486 dx2-66 to go onto
the internet when it was mostly "unsoiled"

http://fourtymegfourtygrand.ytmnd.com/
(fyi other sites from YTMND might be nsfw)

Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article , "Art M - Artfromny" writes:
>
> > I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
> > generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
> > fields on cards?
>
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
>
> (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
> the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
> instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
> program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).

In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
> That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)

PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.

--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

In article <2425.392T345T5553642@kltpzyxm.invalid>, cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid
(Charlie Gibbs) writes:

>In article , jcmorris@mitre.org
>(Joe Morris) writes:
>
>> Example: alpha field in cc1-5, numeric in 6-10, autodup in 11-15,
>> and skip out to the next card:
>>
>> cc: 00000000011111111112222222222--///--777778
>> 12345678901234567890123456789 567890
>> row: ------------------------------------------
>> 12 oooo oooo oooo ooooooooooooo oooooo
>> 11 o
>> 0 o
>> 1 ooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooo
>
> I see you remembered the alpha shift on the auto-dup field. That
> was something I'd automatically include, since otherwise the keypunch
> would hang in the middle of the autodup operation. I never did
> understand why it would do this, but discovered that holding down
> the ALPH key would unfreeze it long enough to finish the current
> card so I could then correct my drum card.

Oops! I forgot to mention that this hanging on auto-dup occurred
only if the column being duplicated was blank. For that matter,
I think the keypunch hung even on a manual dup of a blank if
your drum card didn't have a punch in row 1. Since I was mostly
punching source code, I had a _lot_ of blanks. Maybe this
"feature" was a part of numeric field verification, but to
me it was just a pain in the ass. An easily avoided one,
fortunately.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

Bob Kaplow wrote:
> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
>
> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.

Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
Damn things were mighty tough.

>
> --
> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
> www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
>
> S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
guy ended up peppered with glass fragments. He was mightly lucky he wasn't
blinded.

wrote in message
news:1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
>> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid
>> (Michael Roach) writes:
>> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
>>
>> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.
>
> Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
> We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
> to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
> Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
> Damn things were mighty tough.
>
>>
>> --
>> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars
>> (yet)! <<<
>> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
>> www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org
>> www.nar.org
>>
>> S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
>

Steve Muccione wrote:
> You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
> trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
> what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
> of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
> guy ended up peppered with glass fragments. He was mightly lucky he wasn't
> blinded.

Utter stupidity aside, my point was that you may very well break
all the bones in your hand before you break the screen.

>
> wrote in message
> news:1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> > Bob Kaplow wrote:
> >> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid
> >> (Michael Roach) writes:
> >> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
> >>
> >> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.
> >
> > Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
> > We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
> > to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
> > Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
> > Damn things were mighty tough.
> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars
> >> (yet)! <<<
> >> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
> >> www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org
> >> www.nar.org
> >>
> >> S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
> >

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>
>Arcades? Did they use drum cards?

I dunno about that, but I do have a juke box that uses core memory.

Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing