Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article , "Art M - Artfromny" writes:
>
>
>>I wonder if there is anyone else on RGVAC who knows (well, knew) how to
>>generate control cards for the 029 to produce prepunches for repetitve
>>fields on cards?
>
>
> I don't know about RGVAC (whatever that is), but I used to have a
> sheet full of the 029 codes. I think I lost it, I still have my
> IBM "green card", but I don't see it there.
>
> (For youngsters, an IBM green card contains a quick reference to
> the IBM 360 reference data, including a complete EBCDIC table,
> instruction opcodes, instruction formats, assembler directives,
> program status word fields, and peripheral access codes).
>

You didn't actually produce the prepunches. You duped the field from
the previous card ('&', IIRC). You primed the system by punching one
card with the fields to be repeated, and fed that one first. Somewhere
I have a list of codes. As one of my first PC 'C' programs I wrote an
029 keypunch simulator. We had a real whiz secretary/keypuncher who
could turn around programs on a dime with about a 0% error rate, so I
wanted to keep her happy. I still have the program, and was going to
port it to OS/2 VIO, but I haven't gotten a round tuit yet.

micrologix1500@yahoo.com wrote:
> Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
> of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
> the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
> batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
> stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
> They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing

Do you remember who made the check sorters?

the easiest way is to just take a heavy pair of pliers and smack the neck
with the edge of them right behind the pins - the vacuum sucks in all the
loose glass and it is a fairly gradual process

--
Art
wrote in message
news:6ir392tgtnevjk8nte3jfkqt837ernn06a@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:40:05 -0400, "Steve Muccione"
> wrote:
>
>>You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front
>>before
>>trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've
>>seen
>>what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't
>>aware
>>of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away).
>>One
>
> Two safe ways of doing that, that I know of:
>
> 1) Set CRT in a safe place (say the middle of a large empty parking
> lot), stand back a good long way, and shoot the neck with a BB or
> pellet rifle. (then cleanup the mess)
>
> 2) Set CRT in bottom of a METAL trash can. Using a long handled
> shovel, reach in and tap neck, being sure to duck down out sight of
> CRT.
>
> I have use 2, with no trouble.
>
>
>
>>guy ended up peppered with glass fragments. He was mightly lucky he
>>wasn't
>>blinded.
> --
> ArarghMail606 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
> BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html
>
> To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.

On 15 Jun 2006 17:39:03 -0700, "mensanator@aol.com"
wrote:

>
>micrologix1500@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
>> of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
>> the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
>> batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
>> stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
>> They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing
>
>Do you remember who made the check sorters?

IBM for one. Model 1419, IIRC. I used to run one, once upon a time.
--
ArarghMail606 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.

In article <1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>, "mensanator@aol.com" writes:
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
>> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
>> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
>>
>> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.
>
> Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
> We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
> to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
> Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
> Damn things were mighty tough.

Well, no actually, cuz I wouldn't want to slice up my hand. But the monitor
I left behind 2 jobs back had a couple large chips in the glass from me
throwing pens at them in frustration after the latest Windoze crapola.

I'm sure if you pre-etched the screen with a glass cutter, it would smash
pretty easilly...

--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:40:18 GMT, "Art M - Artfromny"
wrote:

>the easiest way is to just take a heavy pair of pliers and smack the neck
>with the edge of them right behind the pins - the vacuum sucks in all the
>loose glass and it is a fairly gradual process

Probably, if the neck doesn't shatter. :-) I would prefer to just
pinch the little piece of glass where the vacuum pump was attached,
which is usually in the center of the end of the neck.

--
ArarghMail606 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.

ArarghMail606NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com writes:
> IBM for one. Model 1419, IIRC. I used to run one, once upon a time.

old posting mentioning check sorting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002#18 Infiniband's impact was Re: Intel's 64-bit strategy

which then had earlier reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#155 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)

In alt.folklore.computers Bob Kaplow wrote:
:In article <1150401135.207005.137010@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>, "mensanator@aol.com" writes:
:> Bob Kaplow wrote:
:>> In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
:>> > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
:>>
:>> PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.
:>
:> Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
:> We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
:> to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
:> Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
:> Damn things were mighty tough.

:Well, no actually, cuz I wouldn't want to slice up my hand. But the monitor
:I left behind 2 jobs back had a couple large chips in the glass from me
:throwing pens at them in frustration after the latest Windoze crapola.

:I'm sure if you pre-etched the screen with a glass cutter, it would smash
retty easilly...

I hit one with a forklift fork once. Brand new, huge Sony trinitron.
It made a most satisfying, and expensive, "Woosh!" noise. Oops.

David

"mensanator@aol.com" wrote:
>
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
> > In article , never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:
> > > That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)
> >
> > PUNCH SCREEN didn't become an option until WINDOWS.
>
> Have you ever actually punched a screen? I don't recommend it.
> We were throwing out some old crts once and thought it would be fun
> to "punch" the screens with a sledge hammer so they would implode.
> Although we cracked the glass, we could not penetrate the screen.
> Damn things were mighty tough.
>
At a PPoE back in the 1990's, a VT-220 fell from a shelf that was
about five feet high. It was in a storeroom, so no one was around
at the time. The CRT monitor exploded into a zillion pieces.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

Our "museum" was in a "joint venture" for a short time with someone
doing recycling work for charity.
It was a reasonably good fit - except I kept taking home too many macs
because I could stand the thought of them being crunched.


We very shortly parted ways because we could not agree on the safety
standards for handling CRT's.
He was quite happy to chop the neck off with an axe, grab the
deflection yoke, smash it until he could pull the copper windings of,
then smash the front of the CRT and pull out the stainless steel
phosphor mask. The floor of the room ended up a cm deep in phosphors,
rare earth metals, graphite, etc

We thought all this stuff could be very nasty to health.
We wanted to at least sweep it up periodically.
I was even talking about a vacuum closet / dish washer to handle it
more safely.

He just thought we were being sissy nancy boys.

Any comments on the health risks of CRT contents ?

Tony

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:38:23 -0500
ArarghMail606NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com wrote:

> 1) Set CRT in a safe place (say the middle of a large empty parking
> lot), stand back a good long way, and shoot the neck with a BB or
> pellet rifle. (then cleanup the mess)

The variant I recall for the occasional TV tube found without a
broken neck was to place it face upwards, climb to the flat roof two
stories above, drop a brick on it and step back before the glass came
flying past. Of course this is all hearsay I would never have done such a
thing.

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/

micrologix1500@yahoo.com wrote:
> Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
> of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
> the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
> batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
> stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
> They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing
>

I've kept a small deck in my desk at work, just to remember.

I miss cards; hey were useful for lots of things. People used to throw
bunches of chad at weddings instead if rice or confetti - especially
great when the little things got down your neck. They made great note
paper and bookmarks. My wife read a magazine article about making
Christmas wreaths out of them - making a half-twist in them, stapling
them together and spray-painting them gold.

ArarghMail606NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:40:05 -0400, "Steve Muccione"
> wrote:
>
>
>>You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
>>trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
>>what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
>>of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
>
>
> Two safe ways of doing that, that I know of:
>
> 1) Set CRT in a safe place (say the middle of a large empty parking
> lot), stand back a good long way, and shoot the neck with a BB or
> pellet rifle. (then cleanup the mess)
>
> 2) Set CRT in bottom of a METAL trash can. Using a long handled
> shovel, reach in and tap neck, being sure to duck down out sight of
> CRT.
>
> I have use 2, with no trouble.
>

But 1 is so much more fun. BB gun probably wouldn't work. Either a
pellet gun, or maybe a 22.

In article <4491dce8.6629926@news.houston.sbcglobal.net>,
hatespam@hatespam.com (Evil Homer) wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>Arcades? Did they use drum cards?
>
>I dunno about that, but I do have a juke box that uses core memory.

I can see how core could be used, but I can't, for the life of
me, figure out how a drum card would be used. I guess
I haven't met enough arcade games. :-)

/BAH

mensanator@aol.com wrote:
> micrologix1500@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Wow, just when I'm starting to feel old Punch cards! My only taste
> > of punch cards was when I worked for a bank a dozen-or-so years ago, in
> > the department that sorted and microfilmed checks. We identified the
> > batches of checks with pre-punched cards, inserted inline into the
> > stack. Pretty amazing machines, I've never seen paper move that fast.
> > They would frequently jam, and the crashes were equally amazing
>
> Do you remember who made the check sorters?

They were IBMs.. Can't remember the model number anymore, it was "89xx"
AFAIK. HUGE machines.. Each one was about 100' long and they had six
of them at the processing center. I wonder if they still use them? At
the time, they would brag that the IBMs have run 24x7x365 for the last
25 years, only stopping for routine maintenance. Of course, they did
have an IBM tech on hand at all times!

never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:

>In article ,
>Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>
>>gcard ios3270 was attempt to emulate a lot of the green card with
>>online 3270 screens. it doesn't quite have everything ... it doesn't
>>have the punch card hole equivalences for bcd and ebcdic

>That's because "PUNCH SCREEN" is an unsupported option 8^)

....however many times one wanted to try it out while debugging
a particularly irritating program...

Joe Morris

In article , Peter Flass writes:
>
> You didn't actually produce the prepunches. You duped the field from
> the previous card ('&', IIRC). You primed the system by punching one
> card with the fields to be repeated, and fed that one first. Somewhere
> I have a list of codes. As one of my first PC 'C' programs I wrote an
> 029 keypunch simulator. We had a real whiz secretary/keypuncher who
> could turn around programs on a dime with about a 0% error rate, so I
> wanted to keep her happy. I still have the program, and was going to
> port it to OS/2 VIO, but I haven't gotten a round tuit yet.
>

On all the 029 I used, you punched a card that then got wrapped
around a drun near the top.

We had an electronic punch (Univac?) which emulated this by storing
that card's data. The problem was most people didn't know about the
"drum" card and the thing would come up from power off with random
values in that memory. Which was handy, because that meant I was the
only one who generally used it (it was free when I needed to punch).

In article <6ir392tgtnevjk8nte3jfkqt837ernn06a@4ax.com>, ArarghMail606NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com writes:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:40:05 -0400, "Steve Muccione"
> wrote:
>
>>You need to remove the metal restraining strap surrounding the front before
>>trying to implode it. Still... I don't think I'd want to try it. I've seen
>>what happens to trash dump workers when one goes off that they weren't aware
>>of (people should really snap the necks before they throw tubes away). One
>
> Two safe ways of doing that, that I know of:
>
> 1) Set CRT in a safe place (say the middle of a large empty parking
> lot), stand back a good long way, and shoot the neck with a BB or
> pellet rifle. (then cleanup the mess)
>
> 2) Set CRT in bottom of a METAL trash can. Using a long handled
> shovel, reach in and tap neck, being sure to duck down out sight of
> CRT.
>

I'm not sure any BB gun I've ever shot would penetrate even the neck
of one of those tubes.

Contrary to images popular on TV, the front of the tube is generally
stronger than the case in which it's held.

Peter Flass writes:
>micrologix1500@yahoo.com wrote:

["IBM" cards...]

>I've kept a small deck in my desk at work, just to remember.

>I miss cards; hey were useful for lots of things. People used to throw
>bunches of chad at weddings instead if rice or confetti - especially
>great when the little things got down your neck.

In retrospect it was a stupid idea (the chips are really quite sharp
and have been known to cause injury if they get into a person's eye),
but we did just that at the wedding of one of the senior people at
my PPOE. He reported that nearly a decade after the wedding he was
still finding occasional pockets of chips in odd corners of his car...

> They made great note
>paper and bookmarks. My wife read a magazine article about making
>Christmas wreaths out of them - making a half-twist in them, stapling
>them together and spray-painting them gold.

Yup...we had one of those at the computer center I used to manage;
it was there when I arrived, and it was there when I turned over
the management to the incredibly competent operations manager (who
is now in everything but name the CIO of an R&D firm in northern
Virginia). I'm still kicking myself for not having snagged it
when the computer center was closed a few years later.

Joe Morris
--