The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer - DEC

This is a discussion on The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer - DEC ; The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer" ISBN 0-9770866-0-7 Available at http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html For years now the question has been surfacing in the OpenVMS community "Where are the pimply faced kids?" The other situation which seems ...

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  1. The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer"
    ISBN 0-9770866-0-7

    Available at http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html

    For years now the question has been surfacing in the OpenVMS community
    "Where are the
    pimply faced kids?" The other situation which seems to continually occur is
    a developer of one
    language suddenly finding themselves having to modify or maintain an
    application written in a
    language completely foreign to them.

    This book was a year long effort to answer both of those questions. It
    also should help those
    developers from lesser platforms get up to speed when they now have to work
    on a good
    platform. Once the rudimentaries of logging in, symbols, logicals and the
    various editors are
    handled this book takes the reader on a journey of development using the
    most common tools
    encountered on the OpenVMS platform and one new tool making headway.

    A single sample application (a lottery tracking system) is developed
    using FMS and RMS
    indexed files in each of the covered languages. (BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL and
    C/C++). The
    reader is exposed on how to use CDD, CMS and MMS with these languages as
    well. A CD-
    ROM is included which contains the source, MMS and command files developed
    through the
    course of the book.

    Once RMS has been covered with all of the languages the same application
    using MySQL
    with C and FMS is covered. This breaks readers into the use of relational
    databases if they are
    not currently familiar with the concept.

    Rounding out the technical portion of the book is the same application
    using RDB with FMS.
    While source code is provided for all of the language implementations only
    FORTRAN and
    COBOL are actually covered in the text.

    It is the hope of the author that this book will prove a useful
    reference on the desk of every
    OpenVMS developer. The inclusion of MySQL should benefit both those
    unfamiliar with
    relational technology and those platform veterans interested in playing with
    MySQL for the first
    time.

    For those who judge a book by its table of contents:
    Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-1
    I.1 Purpose of This Book. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-1
    I.2 What You Need to Know to Read This Book . . . . . . .I-1
    I.3 Who Should Read This Book . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-1
    I.4 How to Read This Book . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-2
    I.5 Our Sample Application. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-2
    I.6 Why OpenVMS?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I-4
    I.7 The Definition of Application . . . . . . . . . . . .I-5

    Chapter 1
    Fundamentals of OpenVMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1-1
    1.1 Hardware. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1-1
    1.2 Logging In. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1-3
    1.3 Symbols . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1-5
    1.4 Editor Choices. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1-9
    1.5 EDT Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-14
    1.6 TPU and EVE Configuration. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-18
    1.7 LSE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-20
    1.8 Logicals. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-21
    1.9 ACLs and the UAF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-28
    1.10 Logical Name Tables. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-38
    1.11 Foreign Commands . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-40
    1.12 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-41

    Chapter 2
    DCL and Utilities We Need. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2-1
    2.1 DCL for Application Development . . . . . . . . . . .2-1
    2.2 FDL and Our Indexed Files . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2-1
    2.3 Indexed File Lore . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2-5
    2.4 Lexical Functions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-12
    2.5 The Import Program. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-14
    2.6 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-20

    Chapter 3
    DEC BASIC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3-1
    3.1 Goals . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3-1
    3.2 Language Data Types . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3-1
    3.3 Magic Numbers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3-3
    3.4 Group vs. Record. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3-6
    3.5 Creating Our Statistics Files . . . . . . . . . . . .3-7
    3.6 Data File Reporting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-21
    3.7 Other BASIC Language Features . . . . . . . . . . . 3-28
    3.8 BASIC Features to Never Use . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-33
    3.9 The Zero Element. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-34
    3.10 Where Do We Go From Here?. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-35
    3.11 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-35

    Chapter 4
    FMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4-1
    4.1 What is FMS?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4-1
    4.2 Creating a Data Entry Screen in FMS . . . . . . . . .4-2
    4.3 FMS Object vs. Library. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4-5
    4.4 Stand Alone Data Entry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4-6
    4.5 An FMS Browse Program . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-20
    4.6 An FMS Menu. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-27
    4.7 FMS Functions to Never Use. . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-38
    4.8 FMS Summary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-38
    4.9 FMS Function and Subroutine Summary . . . . . . . . 4-39
    4.10 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-53

    Chapter 5
    CMS Theory and Practice. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5-1
    5.1 Code Management System. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5-1
    5.2 Logical Environment for CMS Based Development . . . .5-1
    5.3 Creating Our CMS Library. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5-9
    5.4 Putting Our Application in the Library. . . . . . . 5-10
    5.5 Deleting an Element From the Library. . . . . . . . 5-11
    5.6 Classes and Deletions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-12
    5.7 Modifying Elements Once They Are in CMS . . . . . . 5-12
    5.8 Productionizing the Application . . . . . . . . . . 5-13
    5.9 Legacy Build Procedure. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-16
    5.10 Additional CMS Commands. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-18
    5.11 Promotion Between Libraries. . . . . . . . . . . . 5-20
    5.12 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-29

    Chapter 6
    CDD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6-1
    6.1 What is CDD?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6-1
    6.2 Some Definitions You Need to Know . . . . . . . . . .6-2
    6.3 The Different Camps of CDD Configuration. . . . . . .6-3
    6.4 Creating a Repository . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6-5
    6.5 Defining Our Logicals and Directories . . . . . . . .6-6
    6.6 Creating Our Fields and Records . . . . . . . . . . .6-8
    6.7 Converting Our Include File . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-12
    6.8 Using Variants and Dates. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-14
    6.9 Nuking the CDD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-20
    6.10 Full Build Modification. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-22
    6.11 CDD Usage Summary. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-24
    6.12 Mass Changes Due to CDD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-24
    6.13 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-29






    Chapter 7
    Object and Text Libraries. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7-1
    7.1 What We Know About Libraries So Far . . . . . . . . .7-1
    7.2 Application Logicals We Need. . . . . . . . . . . . .7-2
    7.3 Creating Our Text Library . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7-2
    7.4 Converting Our Application to a Single EXE. . . . . .7-3
    7.5 Programming Assignment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-23
    7.6 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-24

    Chapter 8
    MMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8-1
    8.1 The Purpose of MMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8-1
    8.2 The Correct Way to Use MMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . .8-1
    8.3 Putting It All Together . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8-8
    8.4 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-12

    Chapter 9
    Message Utility, Mail and Phone. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9-1
    9.1 Message File Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9-1
    9.2 VMSMAIL Overview. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9-2
    9.3 Sending Mail From Inside Server Applications. . . . .9-5
    9.4 Programming Assignment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-10
    9.5 VMSPhone Overview . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-10
    9.6 Creating Your Own Messages. . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-12
    9.7 Testing Your Messages . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-14
    9.8 Programming Assignment 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-21
    9.9 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9-21

    Chapter 10
    FORTRAN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1
    10.1 Yes, It's Still Out There. . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1
    10.2 Basics of Fortran. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-2
    10.3 Our Sample Application . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-7
    10.4 Programming Assignment 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-53
    10.5 Using Message Files. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-53
    10.6 Our Quadword Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-54
    10.7 Sending Mail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-56
    10.8 Programming Assignment 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-60
    10.9 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10-60

    Chapter 11
    COBOL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-1
    11.1 Overview . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-1
    11.2 Interview Questions That Are Red Flags . . . . . . 11-2
    11.3 The Myth of the COBOL SORT Verb. . . . . . . . . . 11-4
    11.4 The DCL SORT Command . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-4
    11.5 Our Sample Application . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-6
    11.6 Programming Assignment . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11-58
    11.7 The Rest of the Language . . . . . . . . . . . . .11-59
    11.8 Our Quadword Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11-61
    11.9 Sending Mail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11-62
    11.10 Programming Assignment 2. . . . . . . . . . . . .11-67
    11.11 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11-68

    Chapter 12
    C/C++. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-1
    12.1 Overview . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-1
    12.2 Some Differences on OpenVMS. . . . . . . . . . . . 12-6
    12.3 Our Sample Application in C. . . . . . . . . . . . 12-9
    12.4 C++ Philosophy and Terminology . . . . . . . . . .12-69
    12.5 Our Sample Application in C++. . . . . . . . . . .12-71
    12.6 C/C++ Follow Up. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-139
    12.7 Debugging Notes for C/C++. . . . . . . . . . . . 12-146
    12.8 Sending Mail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-147
    12.9 D_FLOAT Example. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-152
    12.10 Programming Assignments . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-156
    12.11 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12-156

    Chapter 13
    MySQL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13-1
    13.1 Why MySQL? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13-1
    13.2 Getting and Installing MySQL . . . . . . . . . . . 13-4
    13.3 Our Application Database . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13-9
    13.4 Creating the Tables. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13-10
    13.5 Compiling and Linking With MySQL . . . . . . . . .13-13
    13.6 Our Sample Application . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13-17
    13.7 MySQL Follow-up. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13-65
    13.8 Programming Assignments. . . . . . . . . . . . . .13-67
    13.9 Exercises. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13-69

    Chapter 14
    RDB. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-1
    14.1 Why RDB? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-1
    14.2 What's in the Book and What's on Disk. . . . . . . 14-4
    14.3 Table and Database Definitions . . . . . . . . . . 14-5
    14.4 The Drawbacks. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-14
    14.5 Our SQLMOD Implementation. . . . . . . . . . . . .14-15
    14.6 Programming Assignment 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-29
    14.7 SQLMOD Follow Up . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-37
    14.8 EXEC SQL Implementation. . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-38
    14.9 RDB Follow Up. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-54
    14.10 Programming Assignment 2. . . . . . . . . . . . .14-55
    14.11 Exercises . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14-55





    Chapter 15
    Ruminations and Observations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15-1
    15.1 Overview . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15-1
    15.2 What Do You Do?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15-1
    15.3 Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow . . . . . . . . . . . 15-5
    15.4 Have You Ever Wondered Why Y2K Happened? . . . . . 15-6
    15.5 Optimal Technology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15-9
    15.6 The Self-Defeating Business Model. . . . . . . . .15-11
    15.7 Offshore Computing - The Death Knell of IT in the U.S. 15-14
    15.8 Avoiding a Hell-Hole . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15-17



    --

    David B Turner
    Island Computers US Corp
    2700 Gregory St, Suite 180
    Savannah GA 31404
    Tel: 912 447 6622 X201
    Cell: 912 447 6622 X252
    Fax: 912 201 0402
    Email: dbturner@icusc.com
    Web: http://www.islandco.com
    =====================================
    All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions
    of sale. These should be read before ordering.
    http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html



  2. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" writes:

    [snip spam]

    Please stop this spamming. I used to point people looking for Alpha
    hardware in your direction. I will never do it again. I can
    understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting
    increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever to
    post spam to Usenet. One more of these and I'll report you for abuse.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  3. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    In comp.os.vms wrote:
    > "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" writes:


    > [snip spam]


    > Please stop this spamming. I used to point people looking for Alpha
    > hardware in your direction. I will never do it again. I can
    > understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting
    > increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever to
    > post spam to Usenet. One more of these and I'll report you for abuse.


    Good grief. Calm down, about the only thing David posts for sale these days
    are things that are of interest to Hobbyists. In this case he is posting
    something that is of interest to more than just hobbyists, and I for one am
    glad he did. This book sounds like it is just the sort of thing that I
    could really use. Hopefully someone will post a review of it soon.

    Zane

  4. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    healyzh@aracnet.com writes:

    > In comp.os.vms wrote:
    >> "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" writes:

    >
    >> [snip spam]

    >
    >> Please stop this spamming. I used to point people looking for Alpha
    >> hardware in your direction. I will never do it again. I can
    >> understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting
    >> increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever to
    >> post spam to Usenet. One more of these and I'll report you for abuse.

    >
    > Good grief. Calm down, about the only thing David posts for sale
    > these days are things that are of interest to Hobbyists. In this
    > case he is posting something that is of interest to more than just
    > hobbyists, and I for one am glad he did. This book sounds like it
    > is just the sort of thing that I could really use. Hopefully
    > someone will post a review of it soon.


    Makes no difference if it's useful to someone. It's advertising, and
    advertising doesn't belong here. It belongs in the *.marketplace
    groups.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  5. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    > The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer"
    > ISBN 0-9770866-0-7


    > Available at http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html


    I see that the price is US $90 + shipping - not unreasonable for nearly
    800 pages and CD-ROM.

    >From traffic on various forums it appears that there are some new


    people out there faced with applications on VMS systems and wondering
    what to do.

    Its been a long time since anything new was written about VMS Software
    Development.
    I think this book will be useful to the new people that are now
    appearing in the VMS world and are being faced with the wonderful VMS
    environment and don't know where to start. The publication of the book
    also sends a message that VMS Software development is not dead.

    >From the contents page this book appears to cover software development


    using 'classic' DECset tools not the java/NetBeans etc but it does
    appear to mention a newer database (MySQL) as well as RDB. I belive the
    author intends to write another book covering java.

    Certainly an interesting venture and I hope it sells.


  6. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new
    OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.


  7. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    > >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new

    > OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.


    It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)

    As for the 'spam' objection - I'm in two minds on that - strictly
    speaking this is an advertisement, and in some contexts clearly
    inappropriate; but I think given the very specific relevance to the
    audience of this group and the proactive, helpful nature of the product
    - I don't see why it cannot be tolerated.


  8. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    In article ,
    Måns Rullgård wrote:

    > Makes no difference if it's useful to someone. It's advertising, and
    > advertising doesn't belong here. It belongs in the *.marketplace
    > groups.


    I'm sorry you feel that way. I feel that the posting was appropriate to
    at least some of the cross-posted groups. I have my own answer to the
    title and the initial question, though.

    --
    We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams,
    Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams.
    from "Ode", Arthur O'Shaughnessy

  9. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Clinging to sanity, "toby" mumbled into her beard:
    > davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new

    >> OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.

    >
    > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)


    I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...
    --
    output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
    http://linuxdatabases.info/info/rdbms.html
    "I heard that if you play the Windows CD backward, you get a satanic
    message. But that's nothing compared to when you play it forward: It
    installs Windows...." -- G. R. Gaudreau

  10. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Ian Miller wrote:


    > Its been a long time since anything new was written about VMS Software
    > Development.
    > I think this book will be useful to the new people that are now
    > appearing in the VMS world and are being faced with the wonderful VMS
    > environment and don't know where to start. The publication of the book
    > also sends a message that VMS Software development is not dead.


    full ack.

    >From the contents page this book appears to cover software development
    > using 'classic' DECset tools not the java/NetBeans etc but it does
    > appear to mention a newer database (MySQL) as well as RDB. I belive the
    > author intends to write another book covering java.


    This is really the only point one can reasonably criticize (sp?) - the
    book focuses almost completely on ancient technology from the VMS-VAX
    days (except for MySQL). So the title is a bit misleading - the contents
    certainly help to support and evolve old applications; but e.g. FMS is
    really outdated technology, DECforms would have been a better choice. I
    also agree with Ian that Java/Netbeans would certainly have deserved a
    place if developers of new software are the target of the author. Enough
    could be written about specifics regarding Java on OpenVMS, Distributed
    Netbeans, or the GNV kit - all interesting stuff for developing new
    applications, and taking away some of the "legacy" smell that dominates
    opinions on OpenVMS.

    Hans.

    PS: I don't mind "advertising" like this - VMS lacks sufficient
    advertising anyway. I personally want to learn about activities around
    OpenVMS. Maybe I'll change my mind if this group will receive 10
    advertising posts per day :-)

  11. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Christopher Browne wrote:

    > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...


    Being completely irrelevant, but i once had the experience of being sys
    admin on a project that involved overlaying an oracle system onto an
    ISAM stock control system. It was really scary to be involved in.
    Thankfully I was only a contractor and wisely left before the company
    went belly up.


  12. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer


    Christopher Browne wrote:
    > Clinging to sanity, "toby" mumbled into her beard:
    > > davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    > >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new
    > >> OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.

    > >
    > > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    > > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    > > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    > > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    > > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)

    >
    > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...


    MySQL is a rather different animal. For one thing, it offers SQL out of
    the box. Its popularity elsewhere means that skills can be transferred;
    MySQL is easy to configure and maintain. Web applications built for the
    LAMP stack become portable to VMS. MySQL offers transactions and
    replication (and v5 includes triggers, stored procedures, and the
    kitchen sink). Just a few things that come immediately to mind.

    > --
    > output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
    > http://linuxdatabases.info/info/rdbms.html
    > "I heard that if you play the Windows CD backward, you get a satanic
    > message. But that's nothing compared to when you play it forward: It
    > installs Windows...." -- G. R. Gaudreau



  13. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Christopher Browne wrote:


    > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...


    I agree that I wouldn't use MySQL to develop a new application on OpenVMS
    for various reasons, but if there is an application which already runs on
    various platforms (usually Windows, Linux and/or other Unix flavours) it
    can easily be used on OpenVMS as well. And there are plenty of
    tools/goodies/utilities out there which fit into this frame.

    Hans.

  14. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer


    Christopher Browne wrote:
    > Clinging to sanity, "toby" mumbled into her beard:
    > > davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    > >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new
    > >> OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.

    > >
    > > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    > > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    > > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    > > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    > > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)

    >
    > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...


    A very interesting page which covers a variety of databases on VMS
    (including MySQL) is Neil Rieck's
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/doc...rdb_notes.html

    > --
    > output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
    > http://linuxdatabases.info/info/rdbms.html
    > "I heard that if you play the Windows CD backward, you get a satanic
    > message. But that's nothing compared to when you play it forward: It
    > installs Windows...." -- G. R. Gaudreau



  15. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Christopher Browne wrote:
    >
    > Clinging to sanity, "toby" mumbled into her beard:
    > > davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    > >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new
    > >> OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.

    > >
    > > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    > > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    > > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    > > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    > > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)

    >
    > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...


    Indexing and record-level retrieval is only part of the story. RDBMSs do
    much more than RMS, including providing an API that tools such as
    Datatrieve never had. All-in-1 came close, but is a terrible resource
    hog.

    RMS lacks a data dictionary and a query language as well.

    (This from an old AIS, RSTS/E and VMS hand.)

    --
    David J. Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

  16. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Oops! "David J. Dachtera" was seen spray-painting on a wall:
    > Christopher Browne wrote:
    >>
    >> Clinging to sanity, "toby" mumbled into her beard:
    >> > davidc@montagar.com wrote:
    >> >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new
    >> >> OpenVMS Programmer. Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.
    >> >
    >> > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90
    >> > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL
    >> > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL
    >> > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -
    >> > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)

    >>
    >> I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on a
    >> platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into the
    >> operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...

    >
    > Indexing and record-level retrieval is only part of the story. RDBMSs do
    > much more than RMS, including providing an API that tools such as
    > Datatrieve never had. All-in-1 came close, but is a terrible resource
    > hog.
    >
    > RMS lacks a data dictionary and a query language as well.
    >
    > (This from an old AIS, RSTS/E and VMS hand.)


    The thing is, MySQL is little more than a thin layering of a not
    terribly consistent SQL "processor" on top of something rather less
    mature than RMS...
    --
    wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org').
    http://linuxdatabases.info/info/postgresql.html
    Why are there flotation devices under plane seats instead of
    parachutes?

  17. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS ApplicationDeveloper

    On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:54:01 -0500
    Christopher Browne wrote:

    [...]
    >
    > The thing is, MySQL is little more than a thin layering of a not
    > terribly consistent SQL "processor" on top of something rather less
    > mature than RMS...


    Just for interest: What would be a viable zero-/lowcost alternative
    that covers the same needs as mySQL does?

    TIA,

    Marc

  18. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Well, that depends on where/how you want to deploy.

    You may want to investigate Firebird, a database with a chequered past
    and a product which surely is the most re-named in the history of IT.

    Dweeb.


  19. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    In article <1143637311.245132.247180@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups. com>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes:
    >Well, that depends on where/how you want to deploy.
    >
    >You may want to investigate Firebird, a database with a chequered past
    >and a product which surely is the most re-named in the history of IT.


    Question, because I don't know: Is anybody supporting recent versions on VMS?

    Firebird sure looks homey and comfortable to Rdb DBAs.

    -- Alan

  20. Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer

    Christopher Browne wrote:
    > The thing is, MySQL is little more than a thin layering of a not
    > terribly consistent SQL "processor" on top of something rather less
    > mature than RMS...


    This reminds me of one day in 94 or 95 where a DEC VAR
    guy was asked about if he think it was wise of DEC to work
    together with Microsoft and the reply was that Microsoft was
    just a small company that noone should be afraid of.

    Lots of companies use MySQL today for databases.

    Maybe not Oracle & DB2 configs, but still
    hundres og gigabytes of data and huge apps
    (typical web apps).

    And belive me RMS index-sequential files or any
    other ISAM file library would not be a practical
    alternative.

    Arne

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