RRD43 and CD-RW - DEC

This is a discussion on RRD43 and CD-RW - DEC ; I am almost 100% sure that I have successfully used once-writable CDs on an RRD43 connected to a VAX 4000/100A. I also have an RRD43 connected to a DEC 3000/600, but it seems unable to read the SAME CDs. On ...

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Thread: RRD43 and CD-RW

  1. RRD43 and CD-RW

    I am almost 100% sure that I have successfully used once-writable CDs on
    an RRD43 connected to a VAX 4000/100A. I also have an RRD43 connected
    to a DEC 3000/600, but it seems unable to read the SAME CDs. On the one
    hand, it is an ALPHA, not a VAX, and on the other hand it is now at
    7.2-1 whereas the VAX is at 7.3. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure
    that the VAX console could read the CD (i.e. boot from it).

    Since the CD is identical and the CD drive is the same model (RRD43),
    why does it work in one case and not the other? VMS version? Can it
    work on VAX and not on ALPHA? Can it work from the console and not from
    VMS?


  2. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:
    > I am almost 100% sure that I have successfully used once-writable CDs on
    > an RRD43 connected to a VAX 4000/100A. I also have an RRD43 connected
    > to a DEC 3000/600, but it seems unable to read the SAME CDs. On the one
    > hand, it is an ALPHA, not a VAX, and on the other hand it is now at
    > 7.2-1 whereas the VAX is at 7.3. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure
    > that the VAX console could read the CD (i.e. boot from it).
    >
    > Since the CD is identical and the CD drive is the same model (RRD43),
    > why does it work in one case and not the other? VMS version? Can it
    > work on VAX and not on ALPHA? Can it work from the console and not from
    > VMS?
    >

    I've never been able to get any kind of writeable CD to read on an
    RRD43. I suspect you're mis-remembering.


  3. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW


    Ben Myers wrote:
    > From the experiences I have had with older CD-ROM drives, I would

    have to agree
    > that the RRD43 is too old to read write-once CDs, let along the

    rewritable kind.


    Really? I read them on a regular basis on my RRD43 and have had no
    problems. The problem I *do* have is that I can't read the CD-R on the
    other drive that wrote it! (Well, on occasion I've gotten high error
    counts but I attributed that to scratching of the CD-R's when they were
    stacked on the pole. But I don't currently have this problem with the
    latest set of stacked CD-R's.)


    [...]


  4. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    Success reading media burned with a CD burner depends very much on the
    tolerances an individual drive (both burner and reader) operates at, the choice
    of media used for burning, and the operating system that reads the burned media.
    Good that you have an exception there. But I'll stick by the generalization,
    granting the exceptions.

    Another generalization with some likely exceptions: The newer the CD-ROM drive
    the more likely it is to read burned CDs successfully... Ben Myers

    On 11 Apr 2005 07:39:38 -0700, "AEF" wrote:

    >
    >Ben Myers wrote:
    >> From the experiences I have had with older CD-ROM drives, I would

    >have to agree
    >> that the RRD43 is too old to read write-once CDs, let along the

    >rewritable kind.
    >
    >
    >Really? I read them on a regular basis on my RRD43 and have had no
    >problems. The problem I *do* have is that I can't read the CD-R on the
    >other drive that wrote it! (Well, on occasion I've gotten high error
    >counts but I attributed that to scratching of the CD-R's when they were
    >stacked on the pole. But I don't currently have this problem with the
    >latest set of stacked CD-R's.)
    >
    >
    >[...]
    >



  5. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW


    Ben Myers wrote:
    > From the experiences I have had with older CD-ROM drives, I would

    have to agree
    > that the RRD43 is too old to read write-once CDs, let along the

    rewritable kind.
    >
    >
    > Anybody have experiences to report for the newer 12x RRD46, a

    Toshiba-made unit
    > with DEC-specific firmware? Do the RRD46's work on the older DEC

    boxes? If so,
    > and upgrading from an RRD43 to an RRD46 is an option, I still have a

    few RRD46s

    Ben,
    I have RRD46's in my AS800's and RRD47's in my AS1200's and both work
    just fine with CD-R's that I have made. I have not tried a CD-RW
    though on either.


  6. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    On 11 Apr 2005 08:40:12 -0700, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com"
    wrote:

    >Ben Myers wrote:
    >> From the experiences I have had with older CD-ROM drives, I would

    >have to agree
    >> that the RRD43 is too old to read write-once CDs, let along the

    >rewritable kind.
    >>
    >>
    >> Anybody have experiences to report for the newer 12x RRD46, a

    >Toshiba-made unit
    >> with DEC-specific firmware? Do the RRD46's work on the older DEC

    >boxes? If so,
    >> and upgrading from an RRD43 to an RRD46 is an option, I still have a

    >few RRD46s
    >
    >Ben,
    > I have RRD46's in my AS800's and RRD47's in my AS1200's and both work
    >just fine with CD-R's that I have made. I have not tried a CD-RW
    >though on either.


    I've had no trouble with CD-R's in RRD-43s (or their Toshiba equivalent).
    Seem to recall reading somewhere that quad-speed drives and up should be
    okay with recordable media, but there's no reliable rule of thumb for
    rewriteable ones (my car player is fine, but a newer hi-fi box fails
    dismally). For safety, even if there is no scientific evidence, I always
    record audio and data CDs intended for older players/drives at low speeds.
    (4x typically).

    --
    Ask not what your computer can do for you...

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  7. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW


    Ben Myers wrote:
    > From the experiences I have had with older CD-ROM drives, I would

    have to agree
    > that the RRD43 is too old to read write-once CDs, let along the

    rewritable kind.
    >
    >
    > Anybody have experiences to report for the newer 12x RRD46, a

    Toshiba-made unit
    > with DEC-specific firmware? Do the RRD46's work on the older DEC

    boxes? If so,
    > and upgrading from an RRD43 to an RRD46 is an option, I still have a

    few RRD46s

    I have a couple RRD46's and some RRD47's and they all read the CD-R's
    that I've made without a problem. I have not tried any CD-RW's though.


  8. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:

    :...once-writable CDs on an RRD43 ... but it seems unable to read the
    :SAME CDs... Since the CD is identical and the CD drive is the same
    :model (RRD43), why does it work in one case and not the other?...

    Older CD drives can tend to have problems with newer CD writeable and
    CD rewriteable media, in my experience. The media reflectivity of at
    least some of the writeable and rewriteable substrates is comparatively
    marginal, and as the older CD-ROM drives were centrally designed for the
    CD-ROM format and reflectivity. (Looking at the specs and at how this
    recording stuff was retrofit, it is somewhat amazing to me that it all
    works as well as it does. But I digress.) This can lead to the usual
    drive-specific "fun", and to cases where some media is not readable in
    a whole group of drives.

    I'd look at a different recording media formulation, and potentially
    at a different recording drive for the media source.

    As for upgrades, I've had success with the Plextor PlexWriter series
    SCSI CD-R/RW drives, as have some other folks. A newer RRD-series
    drive or newer SCSI CD-ROM drive would be another obvious option for
    an upgrade, and will be somewhat cheaper than a SCSI CD-recorder.

    And the obvious test -- find out if the problem moves with the drive,
    or with the system. I'd tend to assume the former, here.

    ---------------------------- #include -----------------------------
    For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
    --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com


  9. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    > I've never been able to get any kind of writeable CD to read on an
    > RRD43. I suspect you're mis-remembering.


    I've copied licenses to a cd and read them in whilst installing on a few occasions.

    Dan

  10. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    I wonder if those new LightScribe drives with the high power lasers from HP
    might burn really well?

    "Dan Williams" wrote in message
    news:26c11a64.0504111257.3959ba45@posting.google.c om...
    > > I've never been able to get any kind of writeable CD to read on an
    > > RRD43. I suspect you're mis-remembering.

    >
    > I've copied licenses to a cd and read them in whilst installing on a few

    occasions.
    >
    > Dan




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  11. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    In article <425af704$3_2@127.0.0.1>, "Richard Tomkins" writes:
    :I wonder if those new LightScribe drives with the high power lasers from HP
    :might burn really well?

    I'm not certain of the intent of the cited comment.

    The LightScribe drives probably won't help an RRD43 with its problems
    reading from non-pressed media -- older CD drives can and do have
    problems reading newer recordable media. Sometimes there are firmware
    upgrades, and sometimes you end up swapping the drive, and sometimes
    you can find a media formulation that the particular drive can read.

    At its most hideously simple, CD and DVD drives work by using a laser
    diode to read the different reflectance of a pit and a flat spot on
    mechanically pressed substrate, and recordable media simulates the
    appearance of these physical pits and these flat spots through changes
    to the optical substrate of the recordable media.

    Like the groove on each side of a classic pressed vinyl album (and I'll
    ignore discussions of that three-grooved Monty Python album -- and no,
    I'm not parting with my copy), there is a single spiral track on each
    side of CD and DVD media, and a pattern of pits and flat spots records
    the data (or the sound, the movie or...) onto the track.

    If the RRD43 cannot properly detect what look like pits, then the disk
    will not be particularly readable. This could be due to the media, or
    to problems with the drive, or yes, possibly with the recorder. Even
    the best recorder on the market cannot necessarily counteract problems
    within the reader or within the media -- accordingly, my first target
    for a device swap would be the CD reader and not the CD writer.

    ---------------------------- #include -----------------------------
    For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
    --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com


  12. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    I can't help but comment that this explanation is the pits! ... Ben Myers

    On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:42:02 GMT, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:

    >In article <425af704$3_2@127.0.0.1>, "Richard Tomkins" writes:
    >:I wonder if those new LightScribe drives with the high power lasers from HP
    >:might burn really well?
    >
    > I'm not certain of the intent of the cited comment.
    >
    > The LightScribe drives probably won't help an RRD43 with its problems
    > reading from non-pressed media -- older CD drives can and do have
    > problems reading newer recordable media. Sometimes there are firmware
    > upgrades, and sometimes you end up swapping the drive, and sometimes
    > you can find a media formulation that the particular drive can read.
    >
    > At its most hideously simple, CD and DVD drives work by using a laser
    > diode to read the different reflectance of a pit and a flat spot on
    > mechanically pressed substrate, and recordable media simulates the
    > appearance of these physical pits and these flat spots through changes
    > to the optical substrate of the recordable media.
    >
    > Like the groove on each side of a classic pressed vinyl album (and I'll
    > ignore discussions of that three-grooved Monty Python album -- and no,
    > I'm not parting with my copy), there is a single spiral track on each
    > side of CD and DVD media, and a pattern of pits and flat spots records
    > the data (or the sound, the movie or...) onto the track.
    >
    > If the RRD43 cannot properly detect what look like pits, then the disk
    > will not be particularly readable. This could be due to the media, or
    > to problems with the drive, or yes, possibly with the recorder. Even
    > the best recorder on the market cannot necessarily counteract problems
    > within the reader or within the media -- accordingly, my first target
    > for a device swap would be the CD reader and not the CD writer.
    >
    > ---------------------------- #include -----------------------------
    > For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
    > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
    > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com
    >



  13. Re: RRD43 and CD-RW

    I used an RRD43 on my desktop VS3100-30 until a few months ago when an
    RD45 became available. I also use a Yamaha 4416 CDR/CDRW drive on that
    box, and a Yamaha F1 CDRW on my home Alpha.

    The RRD43 could read every disk I burned on the 4416, and all the disks
    burned on the F1 at lower speed. It had some trouble with disks burned
    on the F1 at max media speed (16X). That is, until I ran out of Sony
    and TDK 16X media. That media had a blue tint on the data side.

    Current media from both vendors is silver on the bottom. The RRD43
    could not read any of these disks burned on either burner. The RRD45
    can read them just fine. Other sources have indicated that the
    'cheaper' and more common dye types provide the silver color (and don't
    last as long for archival use), and that the blue (especially deeper
    blue) and gold dyes are older/better/more durable.

    Even an old RRD42 was able to read the old blue Sony disks burned at 1X
    or 2X. No go at all on the newer media.

    Rich


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