disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA - DEC

This is a discussion on disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA - DEC ; On 2005-02-03, David Evans wrote: > In article , > Joe Smith wrote: >>And the computer graphics in the TRON movie were calculated on a PDP-10. > Not all of TRON was done by Triple-I. There were two other > ...

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  1. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    On 2005-02-03, David Evans wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Joe Smith wrote:
    >>And the computer graphics in the TRON movie were calculated on a PDP-10.

    > Not all of TRON was done by Triple-I. There were two other
    > companies; MAGI (I think I spelled that correctly) is the only one
    > whose name I recall at the moment. I don't know whether these other
    > companies also used PDP-10s.


    There were a total of four companies that did animation for TRON. I don't
    recall off the top of my head which did what, but it's in the making-of
    video on the 20th Anniversary edition DVD. All four are listed in the
    credits.

    Didn't Triple-I use the F-1, though?


  2. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    In article ,
    Jay Maynard wrote:
    >On 2005-02-03, David Evans wrote:
    >> In article ,
    >> Joe Smith wrote:
    >>>And the computer graphics in the TRON movie were calculated on a PDP-10.

    >> Not all of TRON was done by Triple-I. There were two other
    >> companies; MAGI (I think I spelled that correctly) is the only one
    >> whose name I recall at the moment. I don't know whether these other
    >> companies also used PDP-10s.

    >
    >There were a total of four companies that did animation for TRON. I don't
    >recall off the top of my head which did what, but it's in the making-of
    >video on the 20th Anniversary edition DVD. All four are listed in the
    >credits.
    >


    Yeah, that's where I'm remembering my info from, although since I
    haven't watched the DVD in quite a few months it wouldn't surprise me
    if I had forgotten about more companies.

    >Didn't Triple-I use the F-1, though?
    >


    Yep. Dave Sieg has some info here:

    http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/f1.html

    Interestingly bizarre KA-10 cab colours.

    --
    David Evans dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
    Research Associate, Ph.D. Candidate http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
    University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer
    Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

  3. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    re: TRON the movie.

    The following really puts the movie in perspective for those times : (1982)

    Company credits at:
    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0084827/companycredits

    It lists special effects from:
    Digital Effects Inc. [us]
    MAGI-Synthavision
    Robert Abel and Associates [us]
    Stargate Films Inc. [us]

    Some of these names are probably companies that bought the original companies.
    MAGI is only shown to have done 2 movies Tron and another one in 1985.
    Stargate has Tron in 1982, and then nothing intil 1990 followed by
    plenty in the late 1990s.


    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0084827/trivia
    #
    TRON is a BASIC command, short for "trace on". The command is a
    debugging tool, to trace a program line by line to ferret out bugs and
    glitches. (It's opposite is TROFF, which turns the trace off.)
    #
    The movie was passed over for an Academy Award nomination for Best
    Visual Effects because the Academyn felt TRON "cheated" by using a
    computer.
    #
    Many people have claimed over the years that the title/character's name
    is a reference to a computer command. Steven Lisberger, however, has
    made it clear in interview after interview that he got the name from
    "Electronic", and didn't even know about the commands until some time
    later. Interestingly enough, the BASIC command Tron serves a similar
    function to the Tron Program in the movie.
    #
    At the time, computers could generate static images, but could not
    automatically put them into motion. Thus, the coordinates for each
    image, such as a lightcycle, had to be entered for each individual
    frame. It took 600 coordinates to get 4 seconds of film. Each of these
    coordinates was entered into the computer by hand by the filmmakers.
    #
    Many Disney animators refused to work on this movie because they feared
    that computers would put them out of business. In fact, 22 years later
    Disney closed its and-drawn animation studio in favor of CGI animation
    #
    While computer animation was used in several scenes, the technology did
    not exist for a shot to contain both live actors and computer
    animation. Live-action shots were fantasized using hand-drawn animation.
    Strong editing, such as with the light cycle chase, created an
    apparently seamless blend of actors and computer animation.
    #

  4. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    re: TRON the movie. (not sure first post went through, sorry if duplicate)

    The following really puts the movie in perspective for those times : (1982)

    Company credits at:
    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0084827/companycredits

    It lists special effects from:
    Digital Effects Inc. [us]
    MAGI-Synthavision
    Robert Abel and Associates [us]
    Stargate Films Inc. [us]

    Some of these names are probably companies that bought the original companies.
    MAGI is only shown to have done 2 movies Tron and another one in 1985.
    Stargate has Tron in 1982, and then nothing intil 1990 followed by
    plenty in the late 1990s.


    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0084827/trivia
    #
    TRON is a BASIC command, short for "trace on". The command is a
    debugging tool, to trace a program line by line to ferret out bugs and
    glitches. (It's opposite is TROFF, which turns the trace off.)
    #
    The movie was passed over for an Academy Award nomination for Best
    Visual Effects because the Academy felt TRON "cheated" by using a
    computer.
    #
    Many people have claimed over the years that the title/character's name
    is a reference to a computer command. Steven Lisberger, however, has
    made it clear in interview after interview that he got the name from
    "Electronic", and didn't even know about the commands until some time
    later. Interestingly enough, the BASIC command Tron serves a similar
    function to the Tron Program in the movie.
    #
    At the time, computers could generate static images, but could not
    automatically put them into motion. Thus, the coordinates for each
    image, such as a lightcycle, had to be entered for each individual
    frame. It took 600 coordinates to get 4 seconds of film. Each of these
    coordinates was entered into the computer by hand by the filmmakers.
    #
    Many Disney animators refused to work on this movie because they feared
    that computers would put them out of business. In fact, 22 years later
    Disney closed its and-drawn animation studio in favor of CGI animation
    #
    While computer animation was used in several scenes, the technology did
    not exist for a shot to contain both live actors and computer
    animation. Live-action shots were fantasized using hand-drawn animation.
    Strong editing, such as with the light cycle chase, created an
    apparently seamless blend of actors and computer animation.
    #


    Another tidbit: in all but a very few scenes, the camera is in a fixed
    location, bolted to the ground. (which probably was required to make the
    overlay of computer generated stuff possible.

  5. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    John Smith wrote:
    > patrick jankowiak wrote:
    >
    >>Morten Reistad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>In article <41F31CAE.6000803@swbell.net>,
    >>>patrick jankowiak wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University
    >>>>>for a long time. I figured if I could get commitments from a
    >>>>>few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince
    >>>>>the University to give me the necessary space. But I really
    >>>>>don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers. :-(
    >>>>>My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can
    >>>>>come in and actually play with the equipment. I would also
    >>>>>make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with
    >>>>>guest accounts. But, I'm probably just dreaming again.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Corporate sponsors are just as shallow. We need to come up
    >>>with a workable museum first.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just
    >>>>waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes me want to
    >>>> listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keep
    >>>>a good mindset but this step is getting me down. It has to be done
    >>>>though.
    >>>>
    >>>>OPCOM
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>A computer museum will need large amounts of space; as well as
    >>>access to largish amounts of energy when someone decides to run
    >>>the machines. Much can be mocked up for the standard visitor, using
    >>>emulators to show software on the correct terminals. But machines
    >>>must be kept intact. We also have the issue of documentation.
    >>>
    >>>Such space fast becomes the major problem. It cannot be in or very
    >>>near major cities, because land is too expensive there. And the scale
    >>>of this is big enough for a full theme park.
    >>>
    >>>So why not do this?
    >>>
    >>>Make a theme park around technology development and preservation.
    >>>Remember that the audience is a premium one for many locations.
    >>>The nerds or wannabees that visit such places have above average
    >>>income, are not very inclined to boozing and gambling, and tend
    >>>to leave the facilities without damage.
    >>>
    >>>It will have to be located somewhere outside the mainstream, and
    >>>must be the magnet for people itself. Just like Disney World.
    >>>
    >>>-- mrr
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Sweet.. Need $ and $.. That would be very nice,
    >>have everything from pre-vacuum tube stuff on up.
    >>A home for analog computers too, yeah.. I could see
    >>it on 100 acres. Mostly indoors of course as geeks
    >>don't like the hot weather much..
    >>
    >>The place could become a location of pilgrimages where
    >>acolytes could chant in octal and wizards could perform
    >>5-way merges on relational databases in an afternoon
    >>while across the park, boy electricians made huge
    >>sparks fly by selecting the right capacitors..
    >>
    >>Microphones could be placed on the HDA's of grumbling
    >>RA81's and during this activity, connected to
    >>amplified subwoofers under the spinning platter-shaped
    >>floor in the next room - a "hard disk ride"
    >>"Ride the RA-81 Platter like a dust speck!!
    >>Watch out for the heads!!"
    >>Space mountain's got nothing on this one!
    >>
    >>Rides wouln't be the real attraction though, just a
    >>minor diversion. The interactive exhibits of all kinds,
    >>that's the key. The real VAXclusters and the 11/780
    >>with doors open to show off the cards. A LINUX Beowulf
    >>cluster, paper tape, DECtape, 9-track tape, 8-track tape.
    >>And the blinkenlights stuff in a room where the lights
    >>dim evey several minutes or so. When the lights dim,
    >>AM radios tuned to the music of each machine come on,
    >>machines programmed to play music via the RFI. I
    >>know some remember doing that on pdp8's and other
    >>stately machines.
    >>
    >>On the other stuff, ever programmed an analog computer?
    >>Talk about an experience. There's lots of classic
    >>technology pieces out there, tons of test equipment
    >>with real CRT's, and machines like plasma generators
    >>from depostion processes, ever notice how you can measure
    >>plasma density by measuring the attenuation of a
    >>microwave beam through the plasma chamber?
    >>
    >>The progress of everything high tech:
    >>computers
    >>RF
    >>audio
    >>Germanium transistors (if anyone recalls those)
    >>plain old electricity
    >>tesla coil (very very large)
    >>open-frame dynamos
    >>what else?
    >>
    >>Might cost what $100M to start?
    >>
    >>The only geek with enough $ to start something like that,
    >>and enough daring to pull it off is Mr. Gates.
    >>
    >>It's wonderful and would probably make tons of
    >>moolah.. Who's going to call Bill?

    >
    >
    >
    > You'd probably have more luck with Allen, Wozniak, and Ellison. Maybe even
    > Ross Perot.
    >
    >

    Yeah, but I'm not the guy to pull that off. I'm an evil genius with a soldering iron and a logic analyzer, not a big businesman.

  6. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

    > In article <41F5AE6D.20208@swbell.net>,
    > patrick jankowiak wrote:
    >
    >>prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    >>>This should be posted to Alt.folklaw.computers...
    >>>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>I can't post there, if someone wants to, please do.

    >
    >
    > You can post there if you spell it correctly. :-)
    > alt.folklore.computers
    >
    > /BAH
    >
    > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

    My ISP dropped access to most the alt groups. Mail to them bounces. Well no worry about 104 hit points, you know what they say.

  7. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    Rich Alderson wrote:

    > John Hudak top-posts:
    >
    > [ moved for the sake of people who know how to read Usenet ]
    >
    >
    >>Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    >
    >
    >>> In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,
    >>> Keith Cayemberg writes:

    >
    >
    >>>>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston
    >>>>http://www.tcm.org/

    >
    >
    >>>Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff including
    >>>stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis Ritchie? I sure didn't
    >>>see anything vintage computer related on thier website.

    >
    >
    >>> bill

    >
    >
    >>Hmmm, I didn't think they *trashed* their stuff...My understanding is that it
    >>was moved to the west coast and only a subset of the stuff was displayed...

    >
    >
    > Much stuff was destroyed--for example, the Stanford PDP-6 which was given to
    > them following the 20 Anniversary celebration at the 1984 DECUS Fall Symposia
    > seems to have disappeared completely. The Computer History Museum is the
    > result of rescuing as much as possible from their junk heap, and moving on from
    > there.
    >

    I have sent an e-mail to the curator of the CHM. No reply yet.

    Patrick

  8. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA


    "patrick jankowiak" wrote in message
    news:420970BB.3070602@swbell.net...
    > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > > In article <41F5AE6D.20208@swbell.net>,
    > > patrick jankowiak wrote:
    > >
    > >>prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>>This should be posted to Alt.folklaw.computers...
    > >>>

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>I can't post there, if someone wants to, please do.

    > >
    > >
    > > You can post there if you spell it correctly. :-)
    > > alt.folklore.computers
    > >
    > > /BAH
    > >
    > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

    > My ISP dropped access to most the alt groups. Mail to them bounces. Well

    no worry about 104 hit points, you know what they say.

    I use "news.individual.net". Its fine for text based groups. You do need to
    register. Not sure what access speed is like in westpondia though.



  9. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    patrick jankowiak wrote:
    > John Smith wrote:
    >> patrick jankowiak wrote:
    >>
    >>> Morten Reistad wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> In article <41F31CAE.6000803@swbell.net>,
    >>>> patrick jankowiak wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University
    >>>>>> for a long time. I figured if I could get commitments from a
    >>>>>> few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince
    >>>>>> the University to give me the necessary space. But I really
    >>>>>> don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers. :-(
    >>>>>> My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can
    >>>>>> come in and actually play with the equipment. I would also
    >>>>>> make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with
    >>>>>> guest accounts. But, I'm probably just dreaming again.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Corporate sponsors are just as shallow. We need to come up
    >>>> with a workable museum first.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just
    >>>>> waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes me want to
    >>>>> listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keep
    >>>>> a good mindset but this step is getting me down. It has to be done
    >>>>> though.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> OPCOM
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> A computer museum will need large amounts of space; as well as
    >>>> access to largish amounts of energy when someone decides to run
    >>>> the machines. Much can be mocked up for the standard visitor, using
    >>>> emulators to show software on the correct terminals. But machines
    >>>> must be kept intact. We also have the issue of documentation.
    >>>>
    >>>> Such space fast becomes the major problem. It cannot be in or very
    >>>> near major cities, because land is too expensive there. And the
    >>>> scale of this is big enough for a full theme park.
    >>>>
    >>>> So why not do this?
    >>>>
    >>>> Make a theme park around technology development and preservation.
    >>>> Remember that the audience is a premium one for many locations.
    >>>> The nerds or wannabees that visit such places have above average
    >>>> income, are not very inclined to boozing and gambling, and tend
    >>>> to leave the facilities without damage.
    >>>>
    >>>> It will have to be located somewhere outside the mainstream, and
    >>>> must be the magnet for people itself. Just like Disney World.
    >>>>
    >>>> -- mrr
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Sweet.. Need $ and $.. That would be very nice,
    >>> have everything from pre-vacuum tube stuff on up.
    >>> A home for analog computers too, yeah.. I could see
    >>> it on 100 acres. Mostly indoors of course as geeks
    >>> don't like the hot weather much..
    >>>
    >>> The place could become a location of pilgrimages where
    >>> acolytes could chant in octal and wizards could perform
    >>> 5-way merges on relational databases in an afternoon
    >>> while across the park, boy electricians made huge
    >>> sparks fly by selecting the right capacitors..
    >>>
    >>> Microphones could be placed on the HDA's of grumbling
    >>> RA81's and during this activity, connected to
    >>> amplified subwoofers under the spinning platter-shaped
    >>> floor in the next room - a "hard disk ride"
    >>> "Ride the RA-81 Platter like a dust speck!!
    >>> Watch out for the heads!!"
    >>> Space mountain's got nothing on this one!
    >>>
    >>> Rides wouln't be the real attraction though, just a
    >>> minor diversion. The interactive exhibits of all kinds,
    >>> that's the key. The real VAXclusters and the 11/780
    >>> with doors open to show off the cards. A LINUX Beowulf
    >>> cluster, paper tape, DECtape, 9-track tape, 8-track tape.
    >>> And the blinkenlights stuff in a room where the lights
    >>> dim evey several minutes or so. When the lights dim,
    >>> AM radios tuned to the music of each machine come on,
    >>> machines programmed to play music via the RFI. I
    >>> know some remember doing that on pdp8's and other
    >>> stately machines.
    >>>
    >>> On the other stuff, ever programmed an analog computer?
    >>> Talk about an experience. There's lots of classic
    >>> technology pieces out there, tons of test equipment
    >>> with real CRT's, and machines like plasma generators
    >>> from depostion processes, ever notice how you can measure
    >>> plasma density by measuring the attenuation of a
    >>> microwave beam through the plasma chamber?
    >>>
    >>> The progress of everything high tech:
    >>> computers
    >>> RF
    >>> audio
    >>> Germanium transistors (if anyone recalls those)
    >>> plain old electricity
    >>> tesla coil (very very large)
    >>> open-frame dynamos
    >>> what else?
    >>>
    >>> Might cost what $100M to start?
    >>>
    >>> The only geek with enough $ to start something like that,
    >>> and enough daring to pull it off is Mr. Gates.
    >>>
    >>> It's wonderful and would probably make tons of
    >>> moolah.. Who's going to call Bill?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> You'd probably have more luck with Allen, Wozniak, and Ellison.
    >> Maybe even Ross Perot.
    >>
    >>

    > Yeah, but I'm not the guy to pull that off. I'm an evil genius with a
    > soldering iron and a logic analyzer, not a big businesman.



    You never know what an honest from-the-heart letter might bring forth when
    sent to each of these guys.You just have to start the ball rolling and then
    get somebody else in to execute it.

    Allen funded the Jimi Hendrix Museum....funding a DEC collection (part of
    which he probably actually had hands-on experience with) might just be his
    thing.

    I'll bet the NSA would want it - if for no other reason than media transfer
    purposes of all their old undeciphered intercepts.

    There's a business...house everything as a museum at an old hanger in
    Roswell and get paid admissions, and do paid media conversions for customers
    who have data in old formats, on old disk paks, etc.... stuff that needs to
    hang around -- medical records, land records, etc....

    --
    OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.



  10. Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA

    On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:53:57 -0500 in alt.sys.pdp11, "John Smith"
    wrote:

    >I'll bet the NSA would want it - if for no other reason than media transfer
    >purposes of all their old undeciphered intercepts.


    Perhaps even NASA for replacement parts for old systems or old
    unconverted data.

    --
    Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada

    Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian[dot]Inglis{at}SystematicSW[dot]ab[dot]ca)
    fake address use address above to reply

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