Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive - DEC

This is a discussion on Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive - DEC ; Greetings: I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in good working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at this time so try and keep the price affordable if you can. Thanks - Jim...

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Thread: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

  1. Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in good
    working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at this time
    so try and keep the price affordable if you can.


    Thanks - Jim

  2. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Which continent are you on? Would a newer and faster 12x RRD46 do? I still
    have a few left from the DEC disposal of computer parts before Compaq bought
    DEC... Ben Myers

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:17:00 -0700, James Nykiel
    wrote:

    >Greetings:
    >
    >
    >I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in good
    >working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at this time
    >so try and keep the price affordable if you can.
    >
    >
    >Thanks - Jim



  3. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    specifically.


    Thanks - Jim

    On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 03:32:46 +0000, Ben Myers wrote:

    > Which continent are you on? Would a newer and faster 12x RRD46 do? I
    > still have a few left from the DEC disposal of computer parts before
    > Compaq bought DEC... Ben Myers
    >
    > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:17:00 -0700, James Nykiel
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Greetings:
    >>
    >>
    >>I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in
    >>good working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at
    >>this time so try and keep the price affordable if you can.
    >>
    >>
    >>Thanks - Jim



  4. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    In article , James Nykiel writes:
    >Greetings:
    >
    >
    >I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    >specifically.


    I have some I might consider letting go but WHY must it be the 45?
    As Ben said, the RRD46 is faster and newer than the RRD45. Using
    the 46, you may find you will have less issues with *most* of the
    CD writeable media.

    --
    http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security
    solutions that others only claim to be.
    --
    Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
    The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!
    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

  5. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    I am interested in restoring a AlphaStation, it appears that the original
    CDROM drive was a RRD45 so that is what I would like to install, this is
    the only reasoning behind my choice.


    Thank you... - Jim

    On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:19:55 +0000, VAXman- wrote:

    > In article , James Nykiel
    > writes:
    >>Greetings:
    >>
    >>
    >>I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    >>specifically.

    >
    > I have some I might consider letting go but WHY must it be the 45? As Ben
    > said, the RRD46 is faster and newer than the RRD45. Using the 46, you may
    > find you will have less issues with *most* of the CD writeable media.
    >
    > --
    > http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security
    > solutions that others only claim to be.
    > --
    > Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
    > The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!



  6. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    The important thing to keep in mind about the non-Wintel DEC products is that
    many of them will vomit (high tech term) all over a SCSI device that does not
    have firmware identifying the device as DEC. Many of the RZ series of hard
    drives, TZ tape drives, and RRD CD-ROM drives were manufactured with
    DEC-specific firmware. Just about the only difference between a DEC-specific
    device and its generic equivalent is the device identification in the firmware.
    (Some old time DEC engineers may also claim that DEC asked the OEM manufacturer
    to make other specific changes inside the firmware, and, in any event, DEC did
    exercise strict control over the firmware in the OEM devices it used.)

    So... You can install a DEC-specific SCSI device in a Wintel computer and it has
    a near 100% chance of working. If you install a non-DEC SCSI device in a DEC
    proprietary box (Alpha, VAX, PDP, other?), the device may or may not work
    depending on the vintage of the box. As a rule of thumb (but my thumb is often
    bruised and bleeding from exceptions to the rule), the later the vintage of DEC
    proprietary box, the better the odds of a non-DEC device working OK.

    IBM, HP, and Compaq did similar things to their older Wintel and non-Wintel
    computers to prevent customers from installing much more cheaply priced
    commodity devices... Ben Myers

    On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:05:36 -0700, James Nykiel
    wrote:

    >Greetings:
    >
    >
    >I am interested in restoring a AlphaStation, it appears that the original
    >CDROM drive was a RRD45 so that is what I would like to install, this is
    >the only reasoning behind my choice.
    >
    >
    >Thank you... - Jim
    >
    > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:19:55 +0000, VAXman- wrote:
    >
    >> In article , James Nykiel
    >> writes:
    >>>Greetings:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    >>>specifically.

    >>
    >> I have some I might consider letting go but WHY must it be the 45? As Ben
    >> said, the RRD46 is faster and newer than the RRD45. Using the 46, you may
    >> find you will have less issues with *most* of the CD writeable media.
    >>
    >> --
    >> http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security
    >> solutions that others only claim to be.
    >> --
    >> Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
    >> The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!

    >



  7. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    Thank you for the advice, I will keep this info in mind.


    Thank you... - Jim

    On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:18:53 +0000, Ben Myers wrote:

    > The important thing to keep in mind about the non-Wintel DEC products is
    > that many of them will vomit (high tech term) all over a SCSI device that
    > does not have firmware identifying the device as DEC. Many of the RZ
    > series of hard drives, TZ tape drives, and RRD CD-ROM drives were
    > manufactured with DEC-specific firmware. Just about the only difference
    > between a DEC-specific device and its generic equivalent is the device
    > identification in the firmware. (Some old time DEC engineers may also
    > claim that DEC asked the OEM manufacturer to make other specific changes
    > inside the firmware, and, in any event, DEC did exercise strict control
    > over the firmware in the OEM devices it used.)
    >
    > So... You can install a DEC-specific SCSI device in a Wintel computer and
    > it has a near 100% chance of working. If you install a non-DEC SCSI
    > device in a DEC proprietary box (Alpha, VAX, PDP, other?), the device may
    > or may not work depending on the vintage of the box. As a rule of thumb
    > (but my thumb is often bruised and bleeding from exceptions to the rule),
    > the later the vintage of DEC proprietary box, the better the odds of a
    > non-DEC device working OK.
    >
    > IBM, HP, and Compaq did similar things to their older Wintel and
    > non-Wintel computers to prevent customers from installing much more
    > cheaply priced commodity devices... Ben Myers
    >
    > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:05:36 -0700, James Nykiel
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Greetings:
    >>
    >>
    >>I am interested in restoring a AlphaStation, it appears that the original
    >>CDROM drive was a RRD45 so that is what I would like to install, this is
    >>the only reasoning behind my choice.
    >>
    >>
    >>Thank you... - Jim
    >>
    >> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:19:55 +0000, VAXman- wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article , James
    >>> Nykiel writes:
    >>>>Greetings:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    >>>>specifically.
    >>>
    >>> I have some I might consider letting go but WHY must it be the 45? As
    >>> Ben said, the RRD46 is faster and newer than the RRD45. Using the 46,
    >>> you may find you will have less issues with *most* of the CD writeable
    >>> media.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security
    >>> solutions that others only claim to be.
    >>> --
    >>> Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
    >>> The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software
    >>> product!

    >>
    >>



  8. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Ben Myers wrote:
    >
    > Which continent are you on? Would a newer and faster 12x RRD46 do? I still
    > have a few left from the DEC disposal of computer parts before Compaq bought
    > DEC... Ben Myers


    Ben,

    Do you have a website with your catalog/inventory?

    ....or can you e-mail me such a list?

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

  9. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    James Nykiel writes:

    >Thank you for the advice, I will keep this info in mind.


    >On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:18:53 +0000, Ben Myers wrote:


    >> The important thing to keep in mind about the non-Wintel DEC products is
    >> that many of them will vomit (high tech term) all over a SCSI device that
    >> does not have firmware identifying the device as DEC. Many of the RZ
    >> series of hard drives, TZ tape drives, and RRD CD-ROM drives were
    >> manufactured with DEC-specific firmware. Just about the only difference
    >> between a DEC-specific device and its generic equivalent is the device
    >> identification in the firmware. (Some old time DEC engineers may also
    >> claim that DEC asked the OEM manufacturer to make other specific changes
    >> inside the firmware, and, in any event, DEC did exercise strict control
    >> over the firmware in the OEM devices it used.)


    It's not so much the identification that causes problems but whether they
    implement features that DEC used. Specifically, for CD-ROM drives, it's
    whether they handle 512 byte sectors or not. Wintel systems use 2048 byte
    sectors. Many early CD-ROMs could do either. Later ones only did 2048
    byte sectors. In fact many drives would identify themselves as either a,
    for example, Toshiba XM-xxxx or DEC RRDxx by changing a jumper. Most
    CD-ROM drives that could do 512 byte sectors would work (on VMS,
    anyway). Doing 512 byte sectors was a big if, though.

    Also, many drive's firmware would play fast and loose with the SCSI specs.
    Features not used by Wintel systems were implemented incorrectly or not
    at all. VMS would often get upset when it tried to use a feature that was
    missing or not done right. VMS was later updated to accept drives with
    more varied features.
    --
    -Mike

  10. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive


    actually, this is not nearly as much of an issue as many people make it
    out to be. the machines themselves don't mind at all. More than anything else,
    it was the scripts that did OS installation that would make life difficult
    (but not impossible) if you tried to install on a disk that didn't have DEC
    firmware. it's certainly not impossible though. In almost a dozen alphas i
    might have one DEC disk left spinning (not like they died, but more like
    a 2 gig disk is kind of small these days), and i've not had any troubles
    installing vms or dux on non-DEC disks, in DEC3000's, AS255's, AS200s, AS500s,
    and miata boxes. same deal for a handful of VAXstations and a couple PMAXen.
    the VMS was 7, the dux was 3.2 and 4.0x, the ultrix was 4.4, and of course
    plenty of BSD to go around as well (which naturally had no issues with non-DEC
    disks)

    Isildur


    On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Ben Myers wrote:

    > The important thing to keep in mind about the non-Wintel DEC products is that
    > many of them will vomit (high tech term) all over a SCSI device that does not
    > have firmware identifying the device as DEC. Many of the RZ series of hard
    > drives, TZ tape drives, and RRD CD-ROM drives were manufactured with
    > DEC-specific firmware. Just about the only difference between a DEC-specific
    > device and its generic equivalent is the device identification in the firmware.
    > (Some old time DEC engineers may also claim that DEC asked the OEM manufacturer
    > to make other specific changes inside the firmware, and, in any event, DEC did
    > exercise strict control over the firmware in the OEM devices it used.)
    >
    > So... You can install a DEC-specific SCSI device in a Wintel computer and it has
    > a near 100% chance of working. If you install a non-DEC SCSI device in a DEC
    > proprietary box (Alpha, VAX, PDP, other?), the device may or may not work
    > depending on the vintage of the box. As a rule of thumb (but my thumb is often
    > bruised and bleeding from exceptions to the rule), the later the vintage of DEC
    > proprietary box, the better the odds of a non-DEC device working OK.
    >
    > IBM, HP, and Compaq did similar things to their older Wintel and non-Wintel
    > computers to prevent customers from installing much more cheaply priced
    > commodity devices... Ben Myers
    >
    > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:05:36 -0700, James Nykiel
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Greetings:
    >>
    >>
    >> I am interested in restoring a AlphaStation, it appears that the original
    >> CDROM drive was a RRD45 so that is what I would like to install, this is
    >> the only reasoning behind my choice.
    >>
    >>
    >> Thank you... - Jim
    >>
    >> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:19:55 +0000, VAXman- wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article , James Nykiel
    >>> writes:
    >>>> Greetings:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    >>>> specifically.
    >>>
    >>> I have some I might consider letting go but WHY must it be the 45? As Ben
    >>> said, the RRD46 is faster and newer than the RRD45. Using the 46, you may
    >>> find you will have less issues with *most* of the CD writeable media.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security
    >>> solutions that others only claim to be.
    >>> --
    >>> Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
    >>> The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!

    >>

    >
    >


  11. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    "Lord Isildur" wrote in message
    news:Pine.LNX.4.60-041.0410081152110.4777@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu...
    >
    > i've not had any troubles
    > installing vms or dux on non-DEC disks, in DEC3000's, AS255's, AS200s,
    > AS500s,
    > and miata boxes. same deal for a handful of VAXstations and a couple
    > PMAXen.

    On the other hand I've had lots of trouble trying to install VMS on Maxtor
    Fireballs and some Micropolis drives, so it's a roll of the dice when trying
    one. It all comes down to how good the command tag queueing is on a
    particular model.
    Jack Pea****



  12. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    "Richard Tomkins" writes:

    > I was going to write a dissertation on Digital hardware, software
    > and firmware, but decided against doing so.


    CAn you be convinced to re-consider?

    > I worked for Digital from 1986 till 2001 (Compaq) in Manufacturing
    > Engineering.


    The view from inside deserves to get out more, before it is totally
    lost.

    --
    Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
    +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
    West Australia 6076
    comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
    Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
    EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

  13. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    So far no luck on locating a private seller through comp.sys.dec, does
    anybody know of a reseller or surplus store that may have this item at a
    reasonable price?

    Thanks - Jim

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:17:00 -0700, James Nykiel wrote:

    > Greetings:
    >
    >
    > I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in good
    > working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at this time
    > so try and keep the price affordable if you can.
    >
    >
    > Thanks - Jim



  14. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    James Nykiel wrote:
    >
    > Greetings:
    >
    > So far no luck on locating a private seller through comp.sys.dec, does
    > anybody know of a reseller or surplus store that may have this item at a
    > reasonable price?


    Unless you're in a rush, keep watching e-Bay.

    Also, have you tried comp.os.vms?

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

  15. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    David,

    I have not yet tried comp.so.vms as I did not want to cross post, have
    been checking eBay and will continue to do so in the time being.

    Thanks - Jim

    On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:43:40
    -0500, David J Dachtera wrote:

    > James Nykiel wrote:
    >>
    >> Greetings:
    >>
    >> So far no luck on locating a private seller through comp.sys.dec, does
    >> anybody know of a reseller or surplus store that may have this item at a
    >> reasonable price?

    >
    > Unless you're in a rush, keep watching e-Bay.
    >
    > Also, have you tried comp.os.vms?



  16. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    James Nykiel wrote:
    > Greetings:



    > So far no luck on locating a private seller through comp.sys.dec, does
    > anybody know of a reseller or surplus store that may have this item at a
    > reasonable price?


    I have an older, internal RRD43 CD-ROm if you are interested.
    A few bucks + postage and it is yours...
    Cheers, Csaba

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CSABA I. HARANGOZO |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| phaeton at iinet dot net dot au
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:

    Everything is a differentiation of one infinity.

  17. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    I appreciate the offer of the RRD43 but I am looking for the RRD45 in
    particular for a restoration project.

    - Jim

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:22:24 +0000, Phaeton wrote:

    > James Nykiel wrote:
    >> Greetings:

    >
    >
    >> So far no luck on locating a private seller through comp.sys.dec, does
    >> anybody know of a reseller or surplus store that may have this item at a
    >> reasonable price?

    >
    > I have an older, internal RRD43 CD-ROm if you are interested. A few bucks
    > + postage and it is yours...
    > Cheers, Csaba
    >
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > CSABA I. HARANGOZO |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| phaeton at iinet dot net dot au
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:
    >
    > Everything is a differentiation of one infinity.



  18. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    Does anybody happen to have a beige bezel for a RRD46 that they would be
    willing to part with?

    - Jim

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:17:00 -0700,
    James Nykiel wrote:

    > Greetings:
    >
    >
    > I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in
    > good working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at
    > this time so try and keep the price affordable if you can.
    >
    >
    > Thanks - Jim


  19. Re: Need RRD45-AA CDROM Drive

    Greetings:


    Thank you all for your assistance, I have obtained the RRD45-AA CDROM
    Drive that I was looking for. Please close this thread.


    Thanks - Jim

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:50:35 -0700, James Nykiel wrote:

    > Greetings:
    >
    >
    > I am in Oregon in the United States. I am looking for the RRD45
    > specifically.
    >
    >
    > Thanks - Jim
    >
    > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 03:32:46 +0000, Ben Myers wrote:
    >
    >> Which continent are you on? Would a newer and faster 12x RRD46 do? I
    >> still have a few left from the DEC disposal of computer parts before
    >> Compaq bought DEC... Ben Myers
    >>
    >> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:17:00 -0700, James Nykiel
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Greetings:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I am a hobbyist looking to purchase (1) RRD45-AA 600MB CDROM Drive in
    >>>good working condition. Unfortunately my budget is fairly limited at
    >>>this time so try and keep the price affordable if you can.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Thanks - Jim


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