1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor - DEC

This is a discussion on 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor - DEC ; I'm using an XP1000 with a Powerstorm 350 video card with its resolution set at 1920x1200 under VMS 7.2-2 with current graphics patches. I know it's set at this resolution because xdpyinfo shows 1920x1200 and moving windows around shows the ...

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Thread: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

  1. 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    I'm using an XP1000 with a Powerstorm 350 video card with its resolution
    set at 1920x1200 under VMS 7.2-2 with current graphics patches. I know
    it's set at this resolution because xdpyinfo shows 1920x1200 and moving
    windows around shows the corner position displayed mid-screen consistant
    with this resolution.

    I recently purchased a 23" LCD HP L2335 monitor (which has a native
    resolution of 1920x1200x60Hz) so I can use it with the computer.

    http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/m...335_specs.html

    However, these HP products aren't working together. When I set the
    monitor to display, the video mode display says the video it is
    receiving is 1600x1200 and displays it accordingly (black bars on the
    sides). I can set the LCD to display the video full screen but what I
    think might be happening is it is sampling the video at 1600 samples per
    line and stretching it to fit 1920. I contacted HP support, which has
    been horrible by the way, to find out if this was the case or if it was
    sampling at the full 1920 and they never were able to answer.
    I guess I'll have to come up with some tests to find out myself.

    The L2335 has a number of presets. In the documentation preset 19 is

    Pixel format Horz Vert Pixel Clk Standard
    kHz Hz MHz
    1600x1200 75.00 60.00 162.000 VESA

    while preset 24 is

    1920x1200 74.56 60.00 193.250 CVT2.30MA

    So... is the Powerstorm 350 not really doing 1920x1200 (WUXGA?) but
    doing 1920 samples in a 1600x1200 (UXGA) video format? Is there a way
    I can get the LCD to recognize the Powerstorm 350 setting? Is there a
    way to set the Powerstorm to output something the HP LCD will recognize
    as 1920x1200? I hope I haven't made a mistake by buying an HP monitor.

    If this is impossible... is there a way to get 1920x1200 in a way the
    L2335 understands with the XP1000 under VMS? I've read that the 3DLabs
    Oxygen VX1 has 1920x1200 but only at 16bbp... would the L2335 even
    recognize this resolution from it correctly?

    How about using the ATI Radeon 7500? From the spec page at

    http://www.ati.com/products/radeon75...500/specs.html

    it appears that 1920x1200 is a hardware supported resolution, but the
    release notes that comes with the graphics patch says that it supports
    1920x1440 but doesn't mention 1920x1200 as a supported resolution.

    Maybe I should have gotten another LCD monitor?

    --
    Vance Haemmerle

  2. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    Vance Haemmerle wrote:
    > it's set at this resolution because xdpyinfo shows 1920x1200


    > receiving is 1600x1200 and displays it accordingly


    With the second monitor plugged in, what does xdypinfo show ? is it 1600*1200 ?

    I am not sure if the powerstorm card has the ability to "read" from the
    monitor. On a Microvax, there is no communications between monitor and video
    card. The card just spits out a signal and hopes the monitor is compatible
    with that signal.

    One thing you need to check is whether your powerstorm card has the ability to
    spit out 1900*1200 at a frequency which is compatible with your monitor. It is
    the combination of size AND frequency that matters.

  3. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > Vance Haemmerle wrote:
    >
    >>it's set at this resolution because xdpyinfo shows 1920x1200

    >
    >
    >>receiving is 1600x1200 and displays it accordingly

    >
    >
    > With the second monitor plugged in, what does xdypinfo show ? is it 1600*1200 ?


    There's no second monitor. Like I said in my original post, I know
    the video is 1920 because with the New Desktop while I move a window
    around the corner pixel location is displayed in the center.

    >
    > I am not sure if the powerstorm card has the ability to "read" from the
    > monitor. On a Microvax, there is no communications between monitor and video
    > card. The card just spits out a signal and hopes the monitor is compatible
    > with that signal.


    I don't expect the powerstorm card to read the monitor, though it
    does use a DB15 connector and could use one of the pins for that.
    I set the resolution the VMS way, in the file
    DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM I have the following:

    $ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 60
    $ decw$xsize_in_pixels == "1920"
    $ decw$ysize_in_pixels == "1200"

    I expect the card to put out a standard 1920x1200 signal and I expect
    the Hewlett Packard monitor to understand this signal as 1920.

    > One thing you need to check is whether your powerstorm card has the ability to
    > spit out 1900*1200 at a frequency which is compatible with your monitor. It is
    > the combination of size AND frequency that matters.


    The Powerstorm 350 can do 24bit color at 1920x1200 at 60 and 75 Hz. The
    monitor says it can do 1920x1200 only at 60Hz, which is what I've set
    the card. I was thinking that since both 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 have
    the same number of lines there must be something about the two standards
    that differ so that the monitor can tell the difference. Almost all of
    the other standards that it supports as presets: 640x480, 720x400,
    800x600, 832x624, 1152x720, 1280x1024, 1600x1000 and 1680x1250 have a
    differing number of lines. There is another set, 1024x768 and 1280x768
    at 60Hz, in which it would have to tell the difference another way.
    Since the Powerstorm can't do the second of these, I can't test that.

    --
    Vance Haemmerle

  4. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    We (VMS) have 2 of these flat panels on order to test them on a Radeon 7500,
    so I can't tell you much about the panel yet. I do have several 2035's
    (1600x1200), and 1825's (1280x1024), which appear to work fine (but I have
    not tried a P350). The 2335 which is fairly new, was never tested or
    qualified on the P350 (or any of the cards yet) which stopped being built
    and sold long before this FP was designed.

    The P350 only has an analog output. I know that the 2335 has a native
    display of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz -- at least in digital (DVI) mode. I would
    expect it to be able to sync on an analog signal of that rate -- but until I
    get one in, I won't be able to tell. It may be that the timing being
    generated is outside of what the panel can handle.

    The P350 (or any of our drivers except perhaps the AlphaBook 1) driver isn't
    smart enough to generate a 1600x1200 output when set to 1920x1200 - nor do
    we inquire the monitor capabilities (which can be done by some signalling
    techniques on most video cards). It is entirely possible that the monitor
    however is doing something funky when seeing an input it can't handle - the
    FP displays are quite sophisticated.


    "Vance Haemmerle" wrote in message
    news:XjD3d.21667$SU2.7758@newssvr27.news.prodigy.c om...
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > Vance Haemmerle wrote:
    > >
    > >>it's set at this resolution because xdpyinfo shows 1920x1200

    > >
    > >
    > >>receiving is 1600x1200 and displays it accordingly

    > >
    > >
    > > With the second monitor plugged in, what does xdypinfo show ? is it

    1600*1200 ?
    >
    > There's no second monitor. Like I said in my original post, I know
    > the video is 1920 because with the New Desktop while I move a window
    > around the corner pixel location is displayed in the center.
    >
    > >
    > > I am not sure if the powerstorm card has the ability to "read" from the
    > > monitor. On a Microvax, there is no communications between monitor and

    video
    > > card. The card just spits out a signal and hopes the monitor is

    compatible
    > > with that signal.

    >
    > I don't expect the powerstorm card to read the monitor, though it
    > does use a DB15 connector and could use one of the pins for that.
    > I set the resolution the VMS way, in the file
    > DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM I have the following:
    >
    > $ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 60
    > $ decw$xsize_in_pixels == "1920"
    > $ decw$ysize_in_pixels == "1200"
    >
    > I expect the card to put out a standard 1920x1200 signal and I expect
    > the Hewlett Packard monitor to understand this signal as 1920.
    >
    > > One thing you need to check is whether your powerstorm card has the

    ability to
    > > spit out 1900*1200 at a frequency which is compatible with your monitor.

    It is
    > > the combination of size AND frequency that matters.

    >
    > The Powerstorm 350 can do 24bit color at 1920x1200 at 60 and 75 Hz. The
    > monitor says it can do 1920x1200 only at 60Hz, which is what I've set
    > the card. I was thinking that since both 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 have
    > the same number of lines there must be something about the two standards
    > that differ so that the monitor can tell the difference. Almost all of
    > the other standards that it supports as presets: 640x480, 720x400,
    > 800x600, 832x624, 1152x720, 1280x1024, 1600x1000 and 1680x1250 have a
    > differing number of lines. There is another set, 1024x768 and 1280x768
    > at 60Hz, in which it would have to tell the difference another way.
    > Since the Powerstorm can't do the second of these, I can't test that.
    >
    > --
    > Vance Haemmerle




  5. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    Vance Haemmerle wrote:

    (snip)

    > The Powerstorm 350 can do 24bit color at 1920x1200 at 60 and 75 Hz. The
    > monitor says it can do 1920x1200 only at 60Hz, which is what I've set
    > the card. I was thinking that since both 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 have
    > the same number of lines there must be something about the two standards
    > that differ so that the monitor can tell the difference. Almost all of
    > the other standards that it supports as presets: 640x480, 720x400,
    > 800x600, 832x624, 1152x720, 1280x1024, 1600x1000 and 1680x1250 have a
    > differing number of lines. There is another set, 1024x768 and 1280x768
    > at 60Hz, in which it would have to tell the difference another way.
    > Since the Powerstorm can't do the second of these, I can't test that.


    In analog tradition the monitor doesn't know anything about pixels,
    but couples the signal through an amplifier to the cathode or grid
    on the CRT.

    An LCD monitor has discrete pixels, unlike a CRT, and so had to
    have some idea where they are. As far as I know, when the horizontal
    pixel count doesn't match the monitor, it interpolates from the signal
    it gets, which results in fuzzy looking characters on the screen.

    -- glen


  6. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:
    > We (VMS) have 2 of these flat panels on order to test them on a Radeon 7500,
    > so I can't tell you much about the panel yet. I do have several 2035's
    > (1600x1200), and 1825's (1280x1024), which appear to work fine (but I have
    > not tried a P350). The 2335 which is fairly new, was never tested or
    > qualified on the P350 (or any of the cards yet) which stopped being built
    > and sold long before this FP was designed.


    I look forward to see what you think. Especially as I read there's
    no VMS support for 1920x1200 on the Radeon 7500.

    > The P350 only has an analog output. I know that the 2335 has a native
    > display of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz -- at least in digital (DVI) mode. I would
    > expect it to be able to sync on an analog signal of that rate -- but until I
    > get one in, I won't be able to tell. It may be that the timing being
    > generated is outside of what the panel can handle.


    With an LCD, native is native, for analog or digital. For DVI mode
    it has to be a reduced blanking 1920x1200 since the regular DVI standard
    only supports up though 1600x1200.

    The 2335 has several inputs, Digital (DVI), Analog (DVI) (the DVI can
    be used as either), Analog (D-SUB), S-Video, Composite and Component
    Video. I have the XP1000 hooked up to Analog (D-SUB) and my DEC
    3000/900 hooked up to the Analog (DVI). Like I mentioned previously,
    the XP1000 is set to 1920x1200. The 3000/900 has a ZLX-E2 set to
    1280x1024@72Hz. I also have an HDTV tuner hooked up to the component
    inputs and an watch it either full screen or as PIP.

    The monitor syncs fine to both signals. It recognizes the 1280x1024
    correctly and displays it correct. Though the mode display calls it
    73Hz. It isn't even one of the three presets for the monitor at this
    resolution which are 60, 75 and 85Hz. The monitor has three custom
    scaling options: Fill to Screen, Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One.
    All three of these settings works as expected for this resolution.

    For the P350 the monitor sees 1920x1200x60 as 1600x1200x60. It seems
    that whatever the P350 is putting out in 1920x1200 mode, the monitor
    doesn't see it as a 1920x1200 standard. This means black side bars
    in the two latter scaling modes. For the Fill to screen mode I don't
    think it is measuring 1920 samples across the screen but 1600 and
    stretching them across the screen. When I type vertical bars,
    ||||||||||||||||||||||, some are wider than others, though I guess it
    could be some sort of aliasing effect.

    In the 1280x1024 mode, One to One, the vertical bars are all the same.
    In Fill to Screen or Fill to Aspect Ratio they are uneven because I
    believe they're being sampled at 1024 and then stretched digitally
    to 1920 or 1500.


    > The P350 (or any of our drivers except perhaps the AlphaBook 1) driver isn't
    > smart enough to generate a 1600x1200 output when set to 1920x1200 - nor do
    > we inquire the monitor capabilities (which can be done by some signalling
    > techniques on most video cards). It is entirely possible that the monitor
    > however is doing something funky when seeing an input it can't handle - the
    > FP displays are quite sophisticated.


    I guess my question is what is really the difference between a
    1920x1200 and 1600x1200 analog signal and is the P350s video different
    between the two modes? At a vertical refresh rate of 60Hz that means a
    horizontal rate of 72KHz, not counting the vertical interval size. The
    monitor presets say 1600x1200 has a horizontal frequency of 75.00kHz but
    the 1920x1200 has 74.56kHz. If it was a regular CRT it would stretch
    each line across the whole screen and wouldn't matter. The LCD treats
    the modes differently depending what it thinks it is.

    --
    Vance Haemmerle

  7. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

    > In analog tradition the monitor doesn't know anything about pixels,
    > but couples the signal through an amplifier to the cathode or grid
    > on the CRT.
    >
    > An LCD monitor has discrete pixels, unlike a CRT, and so had to
    > have some idea where they are. As far as I know, when the horizontal
    > pixel count doesn't match the monitor, it interpolates from the signal
    > it gets, which results in fuzzy looking characters on the screen.


    In this case the horizontal pixel count should match the monitor.
    The card is putting out 1920 samples, the LCD is 1920 samples. The
    monitor thinks it's 1600 though. If the monitor thought it was 1920
    then I think the image would look better.

    Also, the monitor only allows one custom scaling mode (Fill screen,
    Fill to Aspect ratio, or One to One) to apply to all inputs. This
    means that I have to keep switching modes in the onscreen menu when
    I switch between one computer at 1920x1200 and my other one at 1280x1024.

    --
    Vance Haemmerle

  8. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor


    "Vance Haemmerle" wrote in message
    news:Ml94d.18230$QJ3.4384@newssvr21.news.prodigy.c om...
    > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:
    > > We (VMS) have 2 of these flat panels on order to test them on a Radeon

    7500,
    > > so I can't tell you much about the panel yet. I do have several 2035's
    > > (1600x1200), and 1825's (1280x1024), which appear to work fine (but I

    have
    > > not tried a P350). The 2335 which is fairly new, was never tested or
    > > qualified on the P350 (or any of the cards yet) which stopped being

    built
    > > and sold long before this FP was designed.

    >
    > I look forward to see what you think. Especially as I read there's
    > no VMS support for 1920x1200 on the Radeon 7500.
    >


    The Radeon driver table shows 1920 x 1200 at 60 and 70Hz in 8, 16 and 32
    (24) bit depths.


    > > The P350 only has an analog output. I know that the 2335 has a native
    > > display of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz -- at least in digital (DVI) mode. I would
    > > expect it to be able to sync on an analog signal of that rate -- but

    until I
    > > get one in, I won't be able to tell. It may be that the timing being
    > > generated is outside of what the panel can handle.

    >
    > With an LCD, native is native, for analog or digital. For DVI mode
    > it has to be a reduced blanking 1920x1200 since the regular DVI standard
    > only supports up though 1600x1200.
    >
    > The 2335 has several inputs, Digital (DVI), Analog (DVI) (the DVI can
    > be used as either), Analog (D-SUB), S-Video, Composite and Component
    > Video. I have the XP1000 hooked up to Analog (D-SUB) and my DEC
    > 3000/900 hooked up to the Analog (DVI). Like I mentioned previously,
    > the XP1000 is set to 1920x1200. The 3000/900 has a ZLX-E2 set to
    > 1280x1024@72Hz. I also have an HDTV tuner hooked up to the component
    > inputs and an watch it either full screen or as PIP.
    >
    > The monitor syncs fine to both signals. It recognizes the 1280x1024
    > correctly and displays it correct. Though the mode display calls it
    > 73Hz. It isn't even one of the three presets for the monitor at this
    > resolution which are 60, 75 and 85Hz. The monitor has three custom
    > scaling options: Fill to Screen, Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One.
    > All three of these settings works as expected for this resolution.
    >
    > For the P350 the monitor sees 1920x1200x60 as 1600x1200x60. It seems
    > that whatever the P350 is putting out in 1920x1200 mode, the monitor
    > doesn't see it as a 1920x1200 standard. This means black side bars
    > in the two latter scaling modes. For the Fill to screen mode I don't
    > think it is measuring 1920 samples across the screen but 1600 and
    > stretching them across the screen. When I type vertical bars,
    > ||||||||||||||||||||||, some are wider than others, though I guess it
    > could be some sort of aliasing effect.
    >
    > In the 1280x1024 mode, One to One, the vertical bars are all the same.
    > In Fill to Screen or Fill to Aspect Ratio they are uneven because I
    > believe they're being sampled at 1024 and then stretched digitally
    > to 1920 or 1500.
    >
    >
    > > The P350 (or any of our drivers except perhaps the AlphaBook 1) driver

    isn't
    > > smart enough to generate a 1600x1200 output when set to 1920x1200 - nor

    do
    > > we inquire the monitor capabilities (which can be done by some

    signalling
    > > techniques on most video cards). It is entirely possible that the

    monitor
    > > however is doing something funky when seeing an input it can't handle -

    the
    > > FP displays are quite sophisticated.

    >
    > I guess my question is what is really the difference between a
    > 1920x1200 and 1600x1200 analog signal and is the P350s video different
    > between the two modes? At a vertical refresh rate of 60Hz that means a
    > horizontal rate of 72KHz, not counting the vertical interval size. The
    > monitor presets say 1600x1200 has a horizontal frequency of 75.00kHz but
    > the 1920x1200 has 74.56kHz. If it was a regular CRT it would stretch
    > each line across the whole screen and wouldn't matter. The LCD treats
    > the modes differently depending what it thinks it is.
    >


    The P350 does 1920x1200 @ 24 bits at 60Hz with a dot clock of
    94.727479MHz - while it has a 75Hz mode, this exceeds the RAMDAC specs --
    so it isn't really supported at 75Hz reliably (the dot clock would be
    243.409349).

    1600x1200 yields 161.795626MHz at 60Hz, and 202.500215MHz at 75Hz

    The R7500 on the other hand has a dot clock of 193.16MHz at 1920x1200 @60Hz.

    [video timings are strange things. i think the p350 timings pre-date a VESA
    standard. in fact, i think the radeon timings were from a proposed
    standard]

    Check the output in DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG to verify that the server/driver
    set the mode you requested for 60Hz - and don't use 75Hz.




  9. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:
    > "Vance Haemmerle" wrote in message
    >> I look forward to see what you think. Especially as I read there's
    >>no VMS support for 1920x1200 on the Radeon 7500.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The Radeon driver table shows 1920 x 1200 at 60 and 70Hz in 8, 16 and 32
    > (24) bit depths.


    Which VMS version(s)/patch(es) is this true for?

    The most recent list of supported resolutions I could find, from
    file RADEON_7500_README_VMS732.TXT in the VMS732_GRAPHICS-V0200 patch
    does not list 1920x1200...

    Table_2-1_Supported_Video_Modes___________________________ _

    Monitor
    Resolution________RADEON_7500_Card________________ _________

    640x480 60, 72, 75, 85

    800x600 60, 72, 75, 85

    1024x768 60, 70, 75, 85

    1024x864 60, 70, 75, 85

    1152x864 60

    1280x1024 60, 75, 85

    1600x1200 60, 65, 75, 85

    1920x1440 60, 75
    2048x1536_________60,_65,_70,_75__________________ _________

    The default video mode is 1024x768 at 70 Hz.


    >> I guess my question is what is really the difference between a
    >>1920x1200 and 1600x1200 analog signal and is the P350s video different
    >>between the two modes? At a vertical refresh rate of 60Hz that means a
    >>horizontal rate of 72KHz, not counting the vertical interval size. The
    >>monitor presets say 1600x1200 has a horizontal frequency of 75.00kHz but
    >>the 1920x1200 has 74.56kHz. If it was a regular CRT it would stretch
    >>each line across the whole screen and wouldn't matter. The LCD treats
    >>the modes differently depending what it thinks it is.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The P350 does 1920x1200 @ 24 bits at 60Hz with a dot clock of
    > 94.727479MHz - while it has a 75Hz mode, this exceeds the RAMDAC specs --
    > so it isn't really supported at 75Hz reliably (the dot clock would be
    > 243.409349).


    I guess you mean 194.727479MHz?

    The monitor preset for this resolution and rate is 193.250.

    > 1600x1200 yields 161.795626MHz at 60Hz, and 202.500215MHz at 75Hz


    This does closely match the monitor presets for these. Pixel clock of
    162.00 MHz and 202.5 Mhz respectively.

    When I use 1920x1200 @60Hz, the monitor mode display says

    Resolution: 1600x1200
    Horz Freq: 75.57 kHz
    Vert Freq: 60 Hz

    The Horizontal frequency of 75.57kHz more closely matches the preset
    of 75.00 for 1600x1200 than the 74.56kHz for 1920x1200.

    > The R7500 on the other hand has a dot clock of 193.16MHz at 1920x1200 @60Hz.
    >
    > [video timings are strange things. i think the p350 timings pre-date a VESA
    > standard. in fact, i think the radeon timings were from a proposed
    > standard]


    Maybe that's the difference... the P350 isn't standard. According to
    the monitor specs, the stats for 1920x1200 is Horiz 74.56kHz, Vert 60Hz,
    pixel clock 193.25 MHz. Which pretty closely matches the R7500 but not
    so closely the P350 (assuming you meant 194.727).

    So maybe the L2335 monitor will correctly see the R7500.


    > Check the output in DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG to verify that the server/driver
    > set the mode you requested for 60Hz - and don't use 75Hz.


    I've set the P350 correctly.

    Peregrine: Screen X 1920, Screen Y 1200, vsync 60 Hz, depth 24, density
    75, 16-bit texels

    The file P300_350_V2_README.TXT doesn't say anything about not using
    75Hz and in fact says to use the highest value supported by your
    monitor (which is 60Hz for mine anyway)...

    3.3 Supported Video Modes

    The PowerStorm 300 and PowerStorm 350 each support a
    variety of video modes. The PowerStorm 350, with twice
    as much framebuffer memory as the PowerStorm 300, supports
    several additional modes. Compaq recommends that you set
    your refresh rate to the highest value supported by both
    the PowerStorm board and your monitor. Table 3-1 shows
    which modes are supported by each board.

    Table_3-1_Supported_Video_Modes___________________________ _

    Resolution__PowerStorm_300___PowerStorm_350_______ _________

    640x480 60, 72, 75 60, 72, 75

    800x600 72, 75, 85 72, 75, 85

    1024x768 60, 70, 75, 76, 60, 70, 75, 76, 85, 100, 130
    85

    1152x864 60, 75, 85 60, 75, 85, 90, 100, 110

    1280x992 N/A 85, 90, 100, 110, 120

    1280x1024 60, 61, 66, 72, 60, 61, 66, 72, 73, 75, 85,
    73, 75, 85 90, 100, 110, 120

    1600x1200 N/A 60, 75, 85
    1920x1200___N/A______________60,_75________________________

    The default video mode is 1280x1024 at 75Hz.


    I remember reading a post of yours a while back to someone
    who was asking what would be better, a P350 or an R7500. I
    think you stated that the P350 had better support of multiple
    pixel depth visuals and/or support for multiple simultaneous
    colormaps. I remember when I set the default visual class
    to Pseudocolor it said that I would have to set the bit depth
    to 8. xdpyinfo still said I had 24-bit visuals though. I
    didn't have to set the bit depth to 8 on my ZLX-E2 to have
    PseudoColor and could have both 8-bit and 24-bit visuals
    on the same screen. Does the R7500 has this ability?

    Thanks for your time.

    --
    Vance Haemmerle

  10. Re: 1920x1200 resolution with VMS and the HP L2335 LCD monitor

    "Vance Haemmerle" wrote in message
    news:GxD4d.1568$nj.631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com. ..
    > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:
    > > "Vance Haemmerle" wrote in message
    > >> I look forward to see what you think. Especially as I read there's
    > >>no VMS support for 1920x1200 on the Radeon 7500.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > The Radeon driver table shows 1920 x 1200 at 60 and 70Hz in 8, 16 and 32
    > > (24) bit depths.

    >
    > Which VMS version(s)/patch(es) is this true for?
    >


    All. I got the values directly from the driver. Looking at
    DECW$DEVICE_CONFIG_GH.COM also lists these settings.

    > The most recent list of supported resolutions I could find, from
    > file RADEON_7500_README_VMS732.TXT in the VMS732_GRAPHICS-V0200 patch
    > does not list 1920x1200...
    >
    > Table_2-1_Supported_Video_Modes___________________________ _
    >
    > Monitor
    > Resolution________RADEON_7500_Card________________ _________
    >
    > 640x480 60, 72, 75, 85
    >
    > 800x600 60, 72, 75, 85
    >
    > 1024x768 60, 70, 75, 85
    >
    > 1024x864 60, 70, 75, 85
    >
    > 1152x864 60
    >
    > 1280x1024 60, 75, 85
    >
    > 1600x1200 60, 65, 75, 85
    >
    > 1920x1440 60, 75
    > 2048x1536_________60,_65,_70,_75__________________ _________
    >
    > The default video mode is 1024x768 at 70 Hz.
    >


    Trust me, it's in there.

    >
    > >> I guess my question is what is really the difference between a
    > >>1920x1200 and 1600x1200 analog signal and is the P350s video different
    > >>between the two modes? At a vertical refresh rate of 60Hz that means a
    > >>horizontal rate of 72KHz, not counting the vertical interval size. The
    > >>monitor presets say 1600x1200 has a horizontal frequency of 75.00kHz but
    > >>the 1920x1200 has 74.56kHz. If it was a regular CRT it would stretch
    > >>each line across the whole screen and wouldn't matter. The LCD treats
    > >>the modes differently depending what it thinks it is.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > The P350 does 1920x1200 @ 24 bits at 60Hz with a dot clock of
    > > 94.727479MHz - while it has a 75Hz mode, this exceeds the RAMDAC

    specs --
    > > so it isn't really supported at 75Hz reliably (the dot clock would be
    > > 243.409349).

    >
    > I guess you mean 194.727479MHz?
    >
    > The monitor preset for this resolution and rate is 193.250.
    >


    Yes, I dropped the 1 in editing apparently (stupid PC keyboard ;-).

    > > 1600x1200 yields 161.795626MHz at 60Hz, and 202.500215MHz at 75Hz

    >
    > This does closely match the monitor presets for these. Pixel clock of
    > 162.00 MHz and 202.5 Mhz respectively.
    >
    > When I use 1920x1200 @60Hz, the monitor mode display says
    >
    > Resolution: 1600x1200
    > Horz Freq: 75.57 kHz
    > Vert Freq: 60 Hz
    >
    > The Horizontal frequency of 75.57kHz more closely matches the preset
    > of 75.00 for 1600x1200 than the 74.56kHz for 1920x1200.
    >
    > > The R7500 on the other hand has a dot clock of 193.16MHz at 1920x1200

    @60Hz.
    > >
    > > [video timings are strange things. i think the p350 timings pre-date a

    VESA
    > > standard. in fact, i think the radeon timings were from a proposed
    > > standard]

    >
    > Maybe that's the difference... the P350 isn't standard. According to
    > the monitor specs, the stats for 1920x1200 is Horiz 74.56kHz, Vert 60Hz,
    > pixel clock 193.25 MHz. Which pretty closely matches the R7500 but not
    > so closely the P350 (assuming you meant 194.727).
    >


    That's my guess as well. Generally speaking, the timings in use were pulled
    from a spec on the IBM RAMDAC used on the card.

    > So maybe the L2335 monitor will correctly see the R7500.
    >


    I'll let you know as soon as mine comes in.

    >
    > The file P300_350_V2_README.TXT doesn't say anything about not using
    > 75Hz and in fact says to use the highest value supported by your
    > monitor (which is 60Hz for mine anyway)...
    >


    The code itself in this case shows it outside of the RAMDACs margins.


    >
    >
    > I remember reading a post of yours a while back to someone
    > who was asking what would be better, a P350 or an R7500. I
    > think you stated that the P350 had better support of multiple
    > pixel depth visuals and/or support for multiple simultaneous
    > colormaps. I remember when I set the default visual class
    > to Pseudocolor it said that I would have to set the bit depth
    > to 8. xdpyinfo still said I had 24-bit visuals though. I
    > didn't have to set the bit depth to 8 on my ZLX-E2 to have
    > PseudoColor and could have both 8-bit and 24-bit visuals
    > on the same screen. Does the R7500 has this ability?
    >


    No. The ZLX-E2, like the P350, and some other workstation derived graphics
    cards - used a RAMDAC originally designed by DEC, then BrookTree, and then
    IBM. This expensive RAMDAC allocated the 8 bits in the high-order byte of a
    32-bit pixel to indicate how to interpret the pixel. An even earlier
    technology in the FireFox had a colormap window tree that was used to define
    the pixel format for each pixel.

    This allowed a mixture of multiple depths on the screen and multiple
    colormaps.

    X11 exposed too much to applications in a way, such that too many
    applications understand the pixel format on the screen.

    The cards that originated from the PC world (most of them these days) never
    had that capability - Windows did need or use it. So while they can be
    programmed to a wide variety of modes - they generally don't have multiple
    simultanious pixel formats, colormaps, or overlay planes. Instead, you are
    more likely to find video input (PIP) mixers for example.

    There isn't a 24-bit Pseudocolor mode (which means use the pixel value as a
    colormap table lookup). The pixel either generates TrueColor (each R/G/B
    component drives a gun) or DirectColor (each R/G/B value is an index into a
    table that gets the actual value to drive the gun). You can emulate
    StaticGrey just forcing monotonic R/G/B values.

    PsuedoColor is only available with 8-bit pixels - it's an 8-bit index into
    an R/G/B table. You can emulate TrueColor, and DirectColor (with very small
    values for R/G/B) in 8-bit mode.

    So the default on the P350 and Radeon cards is 24-bit, TrueColor. If you
    change the depth, a default visual type will be applied. If you change the
    visual type default without changing depth - and the visual type makes no
    sense at the current depth - you get the warning.






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