VAX/Professional Compatibility - DEC

This is a discussion on VAX/Professional Compatibility - DEC ; Hi. Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530), and do the equivalent of the unix dd ...

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Thread: VAX/Professional Compatibility

  1. VAX/Professional Compatibility

    Hi.

    Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any
    way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530),
    and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive of=image.file
    and then restore the image file to a new disk? I'm more than willing to
    do the research in the manuals for backup and or other software, but I
    am new to VMS administration and not sure where to look.

    Thanks, and sorry for all the dumb questions I posed over the past few
    months. I'm part of a student group at school which over the years
    salvaged a number of these machines as they were being discarded by
    academic departments and somehow, since I've used VMS before, got stuck
    with the task of getting them back online and running again.

    Bob Healey
    RPI Electronics Club

  2. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    In article <2qshgkF13d8rcU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Robert A. Healey" writes:
    > Hi.
    >
    > Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any
    > way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530),
    > and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive of=image.file
    > and then restore the image file to a new disk? I'm more than willing to
    > do the research in the manuals for backup and or other software, but I
    > am new to VMS administration and not sure where to look.


    Let's see, doing a ANALYZE/MEDIA on the target disk might be necessary on
    the target disk, to identify bad blocks, then I'd try MOUNTing
    both of them /FOREIGN, and a BACKUP/PHYSICAL sourcedisk targetdisk.
    I dunno if the low level format of the disks will play on a VAX, though.

    If you have extra PRO/350 or 380 bits lying about, you could
    remove the floppy drive & controller from the PRO, replace them with
    a second hard disk controller & target disk, and use BRU to copy the
    current disk to the target - that's how I back up my PRO/380.

    Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
    Control-G Consultants
    lgleason@houston.rr.com

  3. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    Robert A. Healey wrote:
    > Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any
    > way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530),
    > and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive of=image.file


    Assuming the RD52 from the Pro380 is attached the MicroVAX as DU2: you would
    need to do something like the following:

    $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DU2:
    $ COPY DU2: IMAGE.FILE

    You should then be able to take a good RD52 and do the following:

    $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DU2:
    $ COPY IMAGE.FILE DU2:

    Zane

  4. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    On 2004-09-16, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:
    > Robert A. Healey wrote:
    >> Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any
    >> way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530),
    >> and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive of=image.file

    >
    > Assuming the RD52 from the Pro380 is attached the MicroVAX as DU2: you would
    > need to do something like the following:
    >
    > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DU2:
    > $ COPY DU2: IMAGE.FILE


    I've not tried it, but I'm not entirely certain that would work on a
    MicroVAX. Bear in mind that the MicroVAX expects an MFM drive to be
    on an MSCP controller (an emulated one, in the case of the 2000 and
    3100) and that those controllers expect there to be housekeeping
    information on the disk. Among the things the housekeeping information
    does is describe the portion of the disk containing the user's data.
    When you mount/foreign an MSCP disk, you are not mounting the entire
    disk but only that portion of the disk that contains user data; the
    housekeeping information is not made visible to the VAX.

    Since the Pro disk does not contain the MSCP housekeeping information,
    you are A) unlikely to succeed in getting a VAX to recognize the disk
    and B) unlikely to succeed in copying the entire disk if the VAX does
    recognize the disk.

    Your best bet would be an ISA PC with an old MFM card and an OS willing
    to look the other way (NetBSD, for example).
    --
    Roger Ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net
    http://anachronda.webhop.org/
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    Version: 3.12
    GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+
    PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++
    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

  5. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    gleason@encompasserve.org wrote:
    > In article <2qshgkF13d8rcU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Robert A. Healey" writes:
    >
    >>Hi.


    >
    > Let's see, doing a ANALYZE/MEDIA on the target disk might be necessary on
    > the target disk, to identify bad blocks, then I'd try MOUNTing
    > both of them /FOREIGN, and a BACKUP/PHYSICAL sourcedisk targetdisk.
    > I dunno if the low level format of the disks will play on a VAX, though.
    >
    > If you have extra PRO/350 or 380 bits lying about, you could
    > remove the floppy drive & controller from the PRO, replace them with
    > a second hard disk controller & target disk, and use BRU to copy the
    > current disk to the target - that's how I back up my PRO/380.
    >
    > Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
    > Control-G Consultants
    > lgleason@houston.rr.com


    Thanks. I've only got the one VAX console, and no spare bits. Ideally,
    I'd rebuild from scratch, but I don't have the software to do it. I'm
    definately going to leave write-protect enabled on the VAX when I try it.

    Bob Healey

  6. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    Roger Ivie wrote:
    > On 2004-09-16, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:
    >
    >>Robert A. Healey wrote:
    >>
    >>>Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there any
    >>>way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an 8530),
    >>>and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive of=image.file

    >>
    >>Assuming the RD52 from the Pro380 is attached the MicroVAX as DU2: you would
    >>need to do something like the following:
    >>
    >>$ MOUNT/FOREIGN DU2:
    >>$ COPY DU2: IMAGE.FILE

    >
    >
    > I've not tried it, but I'm not entirely certain that would work on a
    > MicroVAX. Bear in mind that the MicroVAX expects an MFM drive to be
    > on an MSCP controller (an emulated one, in the case of the 2000 and
    > 3100) and that those controllers expect there to be housekeeping
    > information on the disk. Among the things the housekeeping information
    > does is describe the portion of the disk containing the user's data.
    > When you mount/foreign an MSCP disk, you are not mounting the entire
    > disk but only that portion of the disk that contains user data; the
    > housekeeping information is not made visible to the VAX.
    >
    > Since the Pro disk does not contain the MSCP housekeeping information,
    > you are A) unlikely to succeed in getting a VAX to recognize the disk
    > and B) unlikely to succeed in copying the entire disk if the VAX does
    > recognize the disk.
    >
    > Your best bet would be an ISA PC with an old MFM card and an OS willing
    > to look the other way (NetBSD, for example).


    Thanks. I'll give it a try. My MFM enabled VAX is a VAXStation 4, so
    we'll see what happens.

    Bob Healey

  7. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    Roger Ivie wrote:
    > Since the Pro disk does not contain the MSCP housekeeping information,
    > you are A) unlikely to succeed in getting a VAX to recognize the disk
    > and B) unlikely to succeed in copying the entire disk if the VAX does
    > recognize the disk.


    Ouch, good point, and it makes my advice really bad. Even with the write
    protect set I could see the controller in the MicroVAX trashing the disk
    from the RD52. I really don't know what it would do though.

    Zane

  8. Re: VAX/Professional Compatibility

    "Robert A. Healey" writes:

    > Assuming I have a VAX that knows how to talk to MFM drives, is there
    > any way to take the disk out of a Pro/380 (serving as console to an
    > 8530), and do the equivalent of the unix dd if=/dev/failing/drive
    > of=image.file and then restore the image file to a new disk? I'm
    > more than willing to do the research in the manuals for backup and
    > or other software, but I am new to VMS administration and not sure
    > where to look.


    Best way would be to mount the drive /for on the pro, then TPC it
    to somewhere. This means you need a 2nd drive to n=boot from, plus
    a virtual disk to write to.

    All the vaxen toad interfaces are MSCP AIR, so they will not allow
    the drive to become on-line until it is formated for the controller,
    unless you use diagnostic reads...

    --
    Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
    +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
    West Australia 6076
    comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
    Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
    EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

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