Most impressive VAX installations - DEC

This is a discussion on Most impressive VAX installations - DEC ; On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS wrote: >> >>> On Oct 31, 9:15*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" >>> wrote: >>>> I ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 80

Thread: Most impressive VAX installations

  1. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:

    > In article , "Tom Linden"
    > writes:
    >> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Oct 31, 9:15*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of memory. *I
    >>>> don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I doubt if
    >>>> it
    >>>> was more than 128 MB.
    >>>
    >>> I have a client with VAX 6000 series that contain 1.25gb of memory. I
    >>> was at the Sungard facility in PA this past week and they have a VAX
    >>> 7630s with over 2gb+ installed. The spec for the VAX 7000 says 3.5gb
    >>> maximum.

    >>
    >> Just curious why they continue running theses as opposed to, say, ES47?

    >
    >
    > Perhaps because an ES47 is an Alpha and not a VAX?


    Well, I thinkl you know what I meant, i.e., what specifically was missing
    precluding a port. For example one space mission that I am familiar with
    written in PL/I requires H-Float.

    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  2. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
    >
    >> In article , "Tom Linden"
    >> writes:
    >>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Oct 31, 9:15*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>> I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of memory. *I
    >>>>> don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I doubt if
    >>>>> it
    >>>>> was more than 128 MB.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have a client with VAX 6000 series that contain 1.25gb of memory. I
    >>>> was at the Sungard facility in PA this past week and they have a VAX
    >>>> 7630s with over 2gb+ installed. The spec for the VAX 7000 says 3.5gb
    >>>> maximum.
    >>>
    >>> Just curious why they continue running theses as opposed to, say, ES47?

    >>
    >>
    >> Perhaps because an ES47 is an Alpha and not a VAX?

    >
    >Well, I thinkl you know what I meant, i.e., what specifically was missing
    >precluding a port. For example one space mission that I am familiar with
    >written in PL/I requires H-Float.


    BINGO! There still are sites that have not bothered to port their apps to
    Alpha or Itanium. If H-float is needed, I'd wager that a library could be
    developed to provide it and, on faster hardware, it may even best perform-
    ance on VAX.
    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  3. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    In article <490ca76d$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >JF Mezei wrote:
    >> At the opposite scale of things...
    >>
    >> I ran an all mighty Microvax 2 with 8 megs of RAM and a 154meg drive to
    >> support 8 users runing WPS-Plus. The success of the project lead the
    >> MVII to be upgraded to 16 meg of RAM to support 12 users.
    >>
    >> This was circa 1987.

    >
    >And today a single word processing user is using a PC
    >with 4 MB L2 cache, 2 GB RAM and 320 GB disk ...


    Isn't Billzebub's bloatware just wonderful?

    Micro$oft...
    .... keeping Moore's Law in check by several factors for over 20 years!

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  4. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    H Vlems schrieb:
    > On 1 nov, 23:55, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >
    >>H Vlems schrieb:
    >>
    >>
    >>>One of my VAXstation 4000-90A's has 128 MB main memory. Which is its
    >>>configuration maximum IIRC.

    >>
    >>Mine too. And yes, it maxes out at 128MB. But that was
    >>an impressive (and expensive) amount of memory back then.

    >
    >
    > That is absolutely true Michael, When hardware prices wouldn't have
    > come down as they have then we'd all be running SIMH....


    Found a historical quote (as of 1990):
    2x4MB for a VS3176 for close to 3000 DEM (approx $1500 back then).
    And that's already the cheaper OEM price, not the original DEC one.
    I think VS4000 memory wasn't that much cheaper.


  5. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    Here's the largest one we have in our cluster

    $ write sys$output f$getsyi("hw_name")
    VAX 7000-820
    $ show memory/physical
    System Memory Resources on 2-NOV-2008 14:20:19.63

    Physical Memory Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Modified
    Main Memory (2304.00Mb) 4718592 4374674 337265 6653

    Of the physical pages in use, 294903 pages are permanently allocated to
    OpenVMS.


    John



  6. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article <490ca76d$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >> JF Mezei wrote:
    >>> At the opposite scale of things...
    >>>
    >>> I ran an all mighty Microvax 2 with 8 megs of RAM and a 154meg drive to
    >>> support 8 users runing WPS-Plus. The success of the project lead the
    >>> MVII to be upgraded to 16 meg of RAM to support 12 users.
    >>>
    >>> This was circa 1987.

    >> And today a single word processing user is using a PC
    >> with 4 MB L2 cache, 2 GB RAM and 320 GB disk ...

    >
    > Isn't Billzebub's bloatware just wonderful?
    >
    > Micro$oft...
    > ... keeping Moore's Law in check by several factors for over 20 years!


    It is not just MS. IBM, Oracle, SUN, SAP, Borland etc. all let
    HW requirements follow current hardware.

    Arne

  7. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
    >>> In article , "Tom Linden"
    >>> writes:
    >>>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Oct 31, 9:15 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>> I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of memory. I
    >>>>>> don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I doubt if
    >>>>>> it
    >>>>>> was more than 128 MB.
    >>>>> I have a client with VAX 6000 series that contain 1.25gb of memory. I
    >>>>> was at the Sungard facility in PA this past week and they have a VAX
    >>>>> 7630s with over 2gb+ installed. The spec for the VAX 7000 says 3.5gb
    >>>>> maximum.
    >>>> Just curious why they continue running theses as opposed to, say, ES47?
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps because an ES47 is an Alpha and not a VAX?

    >> Well, I thinkl you know what I meant, i.e., what specifically was missing
    >> precluding a port. For example one space mission that I am familiar with
    >> written in PL/I requires H-Float.

    >
    > BINGO! There still are sites that have not bothered to port their apps to
    > Alpha or Itanium. If H-float is needed, I'd wager that a library could be
    > developed to provide it and, on faster hardware, it may even best perform-
    > ance on VAX.


    Considering that the VAX'es most likely emulate H-floating then
    absolutely.

    If I remember correctly then only VAX 7xx, 8xxx and 9xxx implemented
    H-floating in HW.

    And I would expect the VAX'es still running to be 6xxx, 7xxx, 4xxx
    and 3xxx.

    Arne

  8. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > H Vlems schrieb:
    >> On 1 nov, 23:55, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>
    >>> H Vlems schrieb:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> One of my VAXstation 4000-90A's has 128 MB main memory. Which is its
    >>>> configuration maximum IIRC.
    >>>
    >>> Mine too. And yes, it maxes out at 128MB. But that was
    >>> an impressive (and expensive) amount of memory back then.

    >>
    >>
    >> That is absolutely true Michael, When hardware prices wouldn't have
    >> come down as they have then we'd all be running SIMH....

    >
    > Found a historical quote (as of 1990):
    > 2x4MB for a VS3176 for close to 3000 DEM (approx $1500 back then).
    > And that's already the cheaper OEM price, not the original DEC one.
    > I think VS4000 memory wasn't that much cheaper.
    >


    DEC could not, or would not, sell anything cheaply! That's one of the
    many reasons DEC is no more; their competitors could and did sell things
    cheaper than DEC did.

  9. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    Arne Vajh°j wrote:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article <490ca76d$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    >> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >>> JF Mezei wrote:
    >>>> At the opposite scale of things...
    >>>>
    >>>> I ran an all mighty Microvax 2 with 8 megs of RAM and a 154meg drive to
    >>>> support 8 users runing WPS-Plus. The success of the project lead the
    >>>> MVII to be upgraded to 16 meg of RAM to support 12 users.
    >>>>
    >>>> This was circa 1987.
    >>> And today a single word processing user is using a PC
    >>> with 4 MB L2 cache, 2 GB RAM and 320 GB disk ...

    >>
    >> Isn't Billzebub's bloatware just wonderful?
    >>
    >> Micro$oft...
    >> ... keeping Moore's Law in check by several factors for over 20 years!

    >
    > It is not just MS. IBM, Oracle, SUN, SAP, Borland etc. all let
    > HW requirements follow current hardware.
    >
    > Arne


    Funny! I do word processing on a PC with ONLY 1 GB of RAM and only 40
    GB of disk! I don't recall how much "Level X" cache it has; If anyone
    cares, it's an HP DC5750 with W/XP SP2.

    I can do the same sorts of things on a Sun Ultra 10 Creator-3D
    workstation with as little as 128 MB of RAM. More RAM gives better
    performance of course.

    I still use my PC because I'm more familiar with Word than with "Star
    Office" and the help function is more helpful.




  10. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    Arne Vajh°j wrote:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article , "Tom
    >> Linden" writes:
    >>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
    >>>> In article , "Tom
    >>>> Linden" writes:
    >>>>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Oct 31, 9:15 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>> I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of
    >>>>>>> memory. I
    >>>>>>> don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I
    >>>>>>> doubt if it
    >>>>>>> was more than 128 MB.
    >>>>>> I have a client with VAX 6000 series that contain 1.25gb of
    >>>>>> memory. I
    >>>>>> was at the Sungard facility in PA this past week and they have a VAX
    >>>>>> 7630s with over 2gb+ installed. The spec for the VAX 7000 says 3.5gb
    >>>>>> maximum.
    >>>>> Just curious why they continue running theses as opposed to, say,
    >>>>> ES47?
    >>>>
    >>>> Perhaps because an ES47 is an Alpha and not a VAX?
    >>> Well, I thinkl you know what I meant, i.e., what specifically was
    >>> missing
    >>> precluding a port. For example one space mission that I am familiar
    >>> with
    >>> written in PL/I requires H-Float.

    >>
    >> BINGO! There still are sites that have not bothered to port their
    >> apps to
    >> Alpha or Itanium. If H-float is needed, I'd wager that a library
    >> could be
    >> developed to provide it and, on faster hardware, it may even best
    >> perform-
    >> ance on VAX.

    >
    > Considering that the VAX'es most likely emulate H-floating then
    > absolutely.
    >
    > If I remember correctly then only VAX 7xx, 8xxx and 9xxx implemented
    > H-floating in HW.
    >
    > And I would expect the VAX'es still running to be 6xxx, 7xxx, 4xxx
    > and 3xxx.
    >
    > Arne


    Arne,

    Did you drop an "x" up there? VAX 7xx???? I hope you meant 7000
    because the 700 series VAXen did not have H-floating point!

  11. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    On Nov 2, 7:26*pm, "John Reagan" wrote:
    > Here's the largest one we have in our cluster
    >
    > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("hw_name")
    > VAX 7000-820
    > $ show memory/physical
    > * * * * * * * System Memory Resources on *2-NOV-2008 14:20:19.63
    >
    > Physical Memory Usage (pages): * * Total * * * *Free * * *In Use * *Modified
    > * Main Memory (2304.00Mb) * * * *4718592 * * 4374674 * * *337265 * * * *6653
    >
    > Of the physical pages in use, 294903 pages are permanently allocated to
    > OpenVMS.
    >
    > John


    We used to run 4gb ram with max cpus in ayo mnfg to "burn-in" both
    cpus and mem modules before shipping , gave us the opportunity to try
    out interleave configs and let us run some custom memory pattern
    testing under Sitp

  12. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    On Nov 2, 8:50 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > > H Vlems schrieb:
    > >> On 1 nov, 23:55, Michael Kraemer wrote:

    >
    > >>> H Vlems schrieb:

    >
    > >>>> One of my VAXstation 4000-90A's has 128 MB main memory. Which is its
    > >>>> configuration maximum IIRC.

    >
    > >>> Mine too. And yes, it maxes out at 128MB. But that was
    > >>> an impressive (and expensive) amount of memory back then.

    >
    > >> That is absolutely true Michael, When hardware prices wouldn't have
    > >> come down as they have then we'd all be running SIMH....

    >
    > > Found a historical quote (as of 1990):
    > > 2x4MB for a VS3176 for close to 3000 DEM (approx $1500 back then).
    > > And that's already the cheaper OEM price, not the original DEC one.
    > > I think VS4000 memory wasn't that much cheaper.

    >
    > DEC could not, or would not, sell anything cheaply! That's one of the
    > many reasons DEC is no more; their competitors could and did sell things
    > cheaper than DEC did.


    It's not strictly true to say that DEC could not or would not sell
    anything cheaply. Their early stuff was presumably a bargain judging
    by the way it sold, as were VAXes in their heyday. Low end alphas
    towards their end of life weren't priced that badly in hardware terms,
    and if anyone had wanted to build "clone" motherboards at interesting
    prices the technology and support was there for them to do it.

    But the marketing wasn't there, and nor (courtesy of MS) were the
    apps. The AlphaPowered program had a go but in general it was too
    little too late.

    Those in HQ had for too long ignored the "you gotta eat your own lunch
    before someone else eats it for you" (?) rule; there was too much
    emphasis from HQ on "upselling" and not enough on retaining (let alone
    growing) market share by being competitively priced feature for
    feature.

    Yes there were lots of competitors that could and did sell "stuff"
    cheaper than DEC did, but it often wasn't, and often still isn't,
    really comparable "stuff", especially in sectors where VMS was/is
    relevant.

    Unfortunately Palmer and others post-Olsen "bought the WNT Kool-
    Aid" (?) from MS, and as is typical with MS, "business partner" =
    "organ donor" (eg just ask the companies who bought into PowerPC and
    MIPS NT-box vision). Hence, as Kerry just mentioned, no proper non-
    debug versions of NT/Alpha software, to name but one example.

    By the time people outside HQ realised that WNT wasn't (and was never
    really going to be) VMS++, and that OSF/1/Tru64 was going nowhere fast
    vs Solaris and AIX despite being technically very competent indeed,
    the corporate damage had been done. Then the remaining DEC hardware
    and software crown jewels were given to Intel in the ten year
    agreement which was part of the DEC/Intel patent dispute settlement,
    and we know where that led to.

    My 2p. Ymmv.

  13. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > Arne Vajh°j wrote:
    >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>> In article , "Tom
    >>> Linden" writes:
    >>>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
    >>>>> In article , "Tom
    >>>>> Linden" writes:
    >>>>>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:00:33 -0700, FrankS
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Oct 31, 9:15 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>> I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of
    >>>>>>>> memory. I
    >>>>>>>> don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I
    >>>>>>>> doubt if it
    >>>>>>>> was more than 128 MB.
    >>>>>>> I have a client with VAX 6000 series that contain 1.25gb of
    >>>>>>> memory. I
    >>>>>>> was at the Sungard facility in PA this past week and they have a VAX
    >>>>>>> 7630s with over 2gb+ installed. The spec for the VAX 7000 says
    >>>>>>> 3.5gb
    >>>>>>> maximum.
    >>>>>> Just curious why they continue running theses as opposed to, say,
    >>>>>> ES47?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Perhaps because an ES47 is an Alpha and not a VAX?
    >>>> Well, I thinkl you know what I meant, i.e., what specifically was
    >>>> missing
    >>>> precluding a port. For example one space mission that I am familiar
    >>>> with
    >>>> written in PL/I requires H-Float.
    >>>
    >>> BINGO! There still are sites that have not bothered to port their
    >>> apps to
    >>> Alpha or Itanium. If H-float is needed, I'd wager that a library
    >>> could be
    >>> developed to provide it and, on faster hardware, it may even best
    >>> perform-
    >>> ance on VAX.

    >>
    >> Considering that the VAX'es most likely emulate H-floating then
    >> absolutely.
    >>
    >> If I remember correctly then only VAX 7xx, 8xxx and 9xxx implemented
    >> H-floating in HW.
    >>
    >> And I would expect the VAX'es still running to be 6xxx, 7xxx, 4xxx
    >> and 3xxx.

    >
    > Did you drop an "x" up there? VAX 7xx???? I hope you meant 7000
    > because the 700 series VAXen did not have H-floating point!


    I thought the 700 series did have H-floating.

    I just checked some numbers - it seems as if you are correct - only the
    785 has H-floating in HW.

    Arne


  14. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk schrieb:

    >
    > It's not strictly true to say that DEC could not or would not sell
    > anything cheaply. Their early stuff was presumably a bargain judging
    > by the way it sold, as were VAXes in their heyday. Low end alphas
    > towards their end of life weren't priced that badly in hardware terms,
    > and if anyone had wanted to build "clone" motherboards at interesting
    > prices the technology and support was there for them to do it.
    >
    > But the marketing wasn't there, and nor (courtesy of MS) were the
    > apps. The AlphaPowered program had a go but in general it was too
    > little too late.


    Until the alpha systems arrived,
    DEC left a price/performance gap open for about 3 years,
    from 1990 to early 1993,
    not counting the detour to the Mips based systems.


  15. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    > On Nov 2, 8:50 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > wrote:
    >> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>> H Vlems schrieb:
    >>>> On 1 nov, 23:55, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>>>> H Vlems schrieb:
    >>>>>> One of my VAXstation 4000-90A's has 128 MB main memory. Which is its
    >>>>>> configuration maximum IIRC.
    >>>>> Mine too. And yes, it maxes out at 128MB. But that was
    >>>>> an impressive (and expensive) amount of memory back then.
    >>>> That is absolutely true Michael, When hardware prices wouldn't have
    >>>> come down as they have then we'd all be running SIMH....
    >>> Found a historical quote (as of 1990):
    >>> 2x4MB for a VS3176 for close to 3000 DEM (approx $1500 back then).
    >>> And that's already the cheaper OEM price, not the original DEC one.
    >>> I think VS4000 memory wasn't that much cheaper.

    >> DEC could not, or would not, sell anything cheaply! That's one of the
    >> many reasons DEC is no more; their competitors could and did sell things
    >> cheaper than DEC did.

    >
    > It's not strictly true to say that DEC could not or would not sell
    > anything cheaply. Their early stuff was presumably a bargain judging
    > by the way it sold, as were VAXes in their heyday. Low end alphas
    > towards their end of life weren't priced that badly in hardware terms,
    > and if anyone had wanted to build "clone" motherboards at interesting
    > prices the technology and support was there for them to do it.
    >
    > But the marketing wasn't there, and nor (courtesy of MS) were the
    > apps. The AlphaPowered program had a go but in general it was too
    > little too late.
    >
    > Those in HQ had for too long ignored the "you gotta eat your own lunch
    > before someone else eats it for you" (?) rule; there was too much
    > emphasis from HQ on "upselling" and not enough on retaining (let alone
    > growing) market share by being competitively priced feature for
    > feature.
    >
    > Yes there were lots of competitors that could and did sell "stuff"
    > cheaper than DEC did, but it often wasn't, and often still isn't,
    > really comparable "stuff", especially in sectors where VMS was/is
    > relevant.
    >


    I'm thinking of the Rainbow that I bought second hand for $900 or so.
    New, when they first hit the streets, they were about $5,000.00. IBM
    clones were less than half that. DEC wanted about $700.00 US for 256 KB
    of memory. I bought third party memory for $30! It worked perfectly!
    This was the same box that supposedly could not format its own floppy
    disks; something every other PC, PC clone, and McIntosh could do with
    ease! DEC sold formatted floppies for $5 US each. I bought mine for
    $0.50 each and formatted them using third party software. The 20MB hard
    disk was $2200.00 US. I bought brand X (Seagate) for $300 and it worked
    perfectly. I could go on for hours but I hope you get the idea; DEC's
    prices were nothing sort of highway robbery!

    Then there was the Micro 11/23 that my boss bought for huge bucks. We
    bought a hard disk and interface from Emulex because DEC wanted four or
    five times what Emulex did. Was the Emulex product just as good?
    There's no way to tell, now, twenty years later. It did work and worked
    for a couple of years until the boss could afford a VAX 8200.

    At one DECUS symposium I attended, a speaker got a huge laugh by saying;
    "I got a phone call from a terrorist last week; of course HE thinks he's
    a DEC salesman!"



  16. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    urbancamo wrote:
    > To anyone listening!
    >
    > I was flicking through the VAX Architecture Reference Manual earlier
    > and it got me wondering about the ratio between physically installed
    > memory in a VAX setup and the maximum theoretical limit of 4 GB. As
    > far as I'm aware for VAXen the physical never to close to the virtual.
    >
    > I remember when 64MB was an astronomic amount of memory, which was
    > around the time of the last VAXes, so I'm asking - how much RAM did
    > you see crammed into the latest or greatest of the VAXen (and what
    > else was interesting about the setups, for example maximum number of
    > users, storage etc)
    >
    > Or just tell me to get a life
    >
    > Mark.


    The biggest VAXcluster I had anything to do with, had the VAX8500
    and HSC50 on the fifteenth floor, four STARcoupler cables run down
    the cable riser to the ninth floor, the STARcoupler in the cloak
    cupboard next door to the riser (with a sign asking the wet stuff
    NOT be hung above it) and two STARcoupler cables going down to
    the computer room on the first floor where the VAX8800 sat.
    (The 8820 was the same beast except it had a MicroVAX II console.)

    Fourteen floors high, it was big! :-)

    We had a VT220 on the fifteenth floor connected via 4 wire modem
    as the secondary console to the VAX8800s PRO380.
    It could do everything but power on/off.

    The problems why it was so far spread were political mainly.
    (And floor loading). I was the person to suggest running
    the cables, as a joke. To my surprise, they built it!
    (but guess which idiot ran it :-).

    Andy Stewart.

  17. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    On Oct 31, 8:15*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > urbancamo wrote:
    > > To anyone listening!

    >
    > > I was flicking through the VAX Architecture Reference Manual earlier
    > > and it got me wondering about the ratio between physically installed
    > > memory in a VAX setup and the maximum theoretical limit of 4 GB. As
    > > far as I'm aware for VAXen the physical never to close to the virtual.

    >
    > > I remember when 64MB was an astronomic amount of memory, which was
    > > around the time of the last VAXes, so I'm asking - how much RAM did
    > > you see crammed into the latest or greatest of the VAXen (and what
    > > else was interesting about the setups, for example maximum number of
    > > users, storage etc)

    >
    > > Or just tell me to get a life

    >
    > > Mark.

    >
    > I don't know of ANY VAX that actually supported four GB of memory. *I
    > don't recall the largest VAX memory I ever encountered but I doubt if it
    > was more than 128 MB.
    >
    > RISC processors, such as the Alpha need a great deal more memory for the
    > executable code, about four times as much as a VAX. *With the Alphas, a
    > GB or more was not only reasonable but also possible! *But only if you
    > were very rich! ;-)- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    We are currently running 3 GB of memory in our AS-DS20e. IIRC, each
    gig was $700 which seemed reasonable at the time. One unexpected
    surprise is that most of our RMS database is cached in memory.

    Neil Rieck
    Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
    Ontario, Canada.
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/

  18. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    On Nov 3, 12:21 am, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    > > On Nov 2, 8:50 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > > wrote:
    > >> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > >>> H Vlems schrieb:
    > >>>> On 1 nov, 23:55, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > >>>>> H Vlems schrieb:
    > >>>>>> One of my VAXstation 4000-90A's has 128 MB main memory. Which is its
    > >>>>>> configuration maximum IIRC.
    > >>>>> Mine too. And yes, it maxes out at 128MB. But that was
    > >>>>> an impressive (and expensive) amount of memory back then.
    > >>>> That is absolutely true Michael, When hardware prices wouldn't have
    > >>>> come down as they have then we'd all be running SIMH....
    > >>> Found a historical quote (as of 1990):
    > >>> 2x4MB for a VS3176 for close to 3000 DEM (approx $1500 back then).
    > >>> And that's already the cheaper OEM price, not the original DEC one.
    > >>> I think VS4000 memory wasn't that much cheaper.
    > >> DEC could not, or would not, sell anything cheaply! That's one of the
    > >> many reasons DEC is no more; their competitors could and did sell things
    > >> cheaper than DEC did.

    >
    > > It's not strictly true to say that DEC could not or would not sell
    > > anything cheaply. Their early stuff was presumably a bargain judging
    > > by the way it sold, as were VAXes in their heyday. Low end alphas
    > > towards their end of life weren't priced that badly in hardware terms,
    > > and if anyone had wanted to build "clone" motherboards at interesting
    > > prices the technology and support was there for them to do it.

    >
    > > But the marketing wasn't there, and nor (courtesy of MS) were the
    > > apps. The AlphaPowered program had a go but in general it was too
    > > little too late.

    >
    > > Those in HQ had for too long ignored the "you gotta eat your own lunch
    > > before someone else eats it for you" (?) rule; there was too much
    > > emphasis from HQ on "upselling" and not enough on retaining (let alone
    > > growing) market share by being competitively priced feature for
    > > feature.

    >
    > > Yes there were lots of competitors that could and did sell "stuff"
    > > cheaper than DEC did, but it often wasn't, and often still isn't,
    > > really comparable "stuff", especially in sectors where VMS was/is
    > > relevant.

    >
    > I'm thinking of the Rainbow that I bought second hand for $900 or so.
    > New, when they first hit the streets, they were about $5,000.00. IBM
    > clones were less than half that. DEC wanted about $700.00 US for 256 KB
    > of memory. I bought third party memory for $30! It worked perfectly!
    > This was the same box that supposedly could not format its own floppy
    > disks; something every other PC, PC clone, and McIntosh could do with
    > ease! DEC sold formatted floppies for $5 US each. I bought mine for
    > $0.50 each and formatted them using third party software. The 20MB hard
    > disk was $2200.00 US. I bought brand X (Seagate) for $300 and it worked
    > perfectly. I could go on for hours but I hope you get the idea; DEC's
    > prices were nothing sort of highway robbery!
    >
    > Then there was the Micro 11/23 that my boss bought for huge bucks. We
    > bought a hard disk and interface from Emulex because DEC wanted four or
    > five times what Emulex did. Was the Emulex product just as good?
    > There's no way to tell, now, twenty years later. It did work and worked
    > for a couple of years until the boss could afford a VAX 8200.
    >
    > At one DECUS symposium I attended, a speaker got a huge laugh by saying;
    > "I got a phone call from a terrorist last week; of course HE thinks he's
    > a DEC salesman!"


    Yeah, some of the prices were ridiculous (though DEC commodity memory
    eventually arrived vaguely in the land of sanity), but it's still
    helpful to compare like with like. Rainbow with PC clone isn't quite
    like with like.

    Rainbows came out at a time when it wasn't obvious whether CPM or
    MSDOS was the way forward, and when CPM had a relatively reasonable
    installed base. Rainbows had a Z80 for CPM and an x86 (well, 8088) for
    MSDOS. Flexibility? Investment protection?

    Iirc, PC clones only did MSDOS and not CPM (no Linux back then, though
    there would soon be Venix/x86 as well as Venix/11 etc). And thus began
    the never-ending PC upgrade-and-discard cycles we all know (and which
    some folks love).

  19. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    In article , urbancamo writes:
    > To anyone listening!
    >
    > I was flicking through the VAX Architecture Reference Manual earlier
    > and it got me wondering about the ratio between physically installed
    > memory in a VAX setup and the maximum theoretical limit of 4 GB. As
    > far as I'm aware for VAXen the physical never to close to the virtual.


    Since the 11/780 had a 30 bit backplane and following systems were
    20 bit or smaller, most VAXen can't handle more than 30 bits worth
    of RAM.

    But eventually the hardware architecture was extended to 32 bits and
    systems were qualified with a 4GB of RAM. I don't recall which
    models.


  20. Re: Most impressive VAX installations

    In article <490ca0a7$0$22570$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    > At the opposite scale of things...
    >
    > I ran an all mighty Microvax 2 with 8 megs of RAM and a 154meg drive to
    > support 8 users runing WPS-Plus. The success of the project lead the
    > MVII to be upgraded to 16 meg of RAM to support 12 users.
    >
    > This was circa 1987.


    One of our earliest 11/780 had 1MB of RAM, because that was the smallest
    DEC would sell at the time. I'm not sure if my first 11/780 had 1 or
    only 1/2 MB, but whatever was the minimum for VAX-11/VMS 1.x is what it
    had.

    Anyone have the SPD for 1.x in 1978?


+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast