OpenVMS vs. Tru64? - DEC

This is a discussion on OpenVMS vs. Tru64? - DEC ; On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:40:07 UTC, Michael Kraemer wrote: > VAXman- schrieb: > > > What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen > > something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove > ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 78

Thread: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

  1. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:40:07 UTC, Michael Kraemer
    wrote:

    > VAXman- schrieb:
    >
    > > What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    > > something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    > > perhaps?
    > >
    > > It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4

    >
    > Except if you typed "0" for an "O" and you have no
    > GUI to correct (because this would require another checksum)
    > and you have to re-type the whole crap,
    > not only the checksum but everything else as well.


    RTFM - which states that those four-character groups are all alphabetic.

    And you don't have to type it all again if you use VMSLICENSE.

  2. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > Michael Unger schrieb:
    >
    >> Assuming "hobbyist licenses" (commercial licenses are usually printed
    >> sheets of paper) sent via e-mail from Montagar you *definitely* need
    >> another *running* system (whatever HW and OS) to retrieve the e-mail.

    >
    > Aah, I forgot: is it any better for commercial licenses, i.e.
    > would they come on floppy/CD so one would just have to run a
    > script with lmf commands ?
    >


    No, as said, commercial licenses come on paper, so You have to type them in.

    But something I never tested myself: isn't the client side of UCX (ftp
    client) running without license key loaded, only services need them ?
    Then it would be possible to load everything from the system where the
    license email is stored.

    Apropos commercial licenses: here VMS is on par with MS Windows:-)
    can You install it without typing the 30 -or so- character license key
    on the keyboard ?

    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  3. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article , Michael Kraemer writes:
    >VAXman- schrieb:
    >
    >> What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    >> something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    >> perhaps?
    >>
    >> It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4

    >
    >Except if you typed "0" for an "O" and you have no
    >GUI to correct (because this would require another checksum)
    >and you have to re-type the whole crap,


    I was trying to indicate that the 4 fields are characters only.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  4. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jo8fbF48mkkU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article <00A7FFAA.43F9CC68@sendspamhere.org>,
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>In article ,
    >>> Howard S Shubs writes:
    >>>> In article ,
    >>>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> the respective workstations. It's only the machine, the CD set
    >>>>> and me to get them up and running. On a scale which measures
    >>>>> ease of installation until GUI and networking is running,
    >>>>> VMS takes the absolute bottom notch, IMHO.
    >>>>
    >>>> Have you tried it? If VMS comes on CD, you only need a serial terminal
    >>>> to load it.
    >>>
    >>>Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    >>>hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?

    >>
    >> What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    >> something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    >> perhaps?
    >>
    >> It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4
    >>
    >> Have you ever seen the crypitc keys on Micro$hit products? Here's one:
    >> FG69P-J6H9M-VGYR9-X2C38-GTC4Q 5*5
    >>
    >> Yeah, Bill, billzebubs 666 code is SOOOO much easier.

    >
    >I didn't recommend Microsoft. I use FreeBSd and it has never asked me
    >for a license. Linux doesn't either. And, I just did my first install
    >of "Open Solaris" and it also didn't. As a matter of fact, it was one
    >of the VMS faithful that recommended cut and paste from a Windows box.
    >Go figure.
    >
    >>
    >> At least. I'm not require to stick advert stickers on my hardware like
    >> all of the idiots running Micro$hit products.

    >
    >I have installed a lot of OSes in my life. I have never had to "stick
    >advert stickers on my hardware". It is making ridiculous claims like
    >this that has made VMS and it's rabid advocates the laughing stock of
    >the industry. And, yes, people here openly laugh at any mention of
    >VMS.


    Ah, so you don't run Weendoze there at U. of Scranton. Good your you!
    I'm pleased to hear that U. of Scranton is bucking the usual Micro$oft
    on campus parade.


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  5. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article ,
    Joseph Huber writes:
    > Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >> Michael Unger schrieb:
    >>
    >>> Assuming "hobbyist licenses" (commercial licenses are usually printed
    >>> sheets of paper) sent via e-mail from Montagar you *definitely* need
    >>> another *running* system (whatever HW and OS) to retrieve the e-mail.

    >>
    >> Aah, I forgot: is it any better for commercial licenses, i.e.
    >> would they come on floppy/CD so one would just have to run a
    >> script with lmf commands ?
    >>

    >
    > No, as said, commercial licenses come on paper, so You have to type them in.
    >
    > But something I never tested myself: isn't the client side of UCX (ftp
    > client) running without license key loaded, only services need them ?
    > Then it would be possible to load everything from the system where the
    > license email is stored.


    Not on any VMS system I ever installed. Licenses were needed for clients as
    well as servers.

    >
    > Apropos commercial licenses: here VMS is on par with MS Windows:-)
    > can You install it without typing the 30 -or so- character license key
    > on the keyboard ?


    Which is irrelevant. If Bill Gates jumped off a bridge should VMS people
    do it too? :-) And the original comparison was to Unix, anyway. So,
    anybody here have any experience with HP-UX? How is license installation
    handled there?

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  6. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-eNi8Kfi7Ikdy@rikki.tavi.co.uk>,
    writes:
    > On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:41:05 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
    > wrote:
    >
    >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-MF1Z8FqpOjTd@rikki.tavi.co.uk>,
    >> writes:
    >> > On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:56:19 UTC, Howard S Shubs
    >> > wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>,
    >> >> billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    >> >> > hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?
    >> >>
    >> >> Didn't someone say that the licenses were on the CD in a command
    >> >> procedure? Executing the command procedure isn't too bad.
    >> >
    >> > Don't think so. I said that it would be trivial to make a CD containing
    >> > the two licence DCL scripts. One must have received them by email on
    >> > *some* system, and one could probably burn an ISO CD. That could be
    >> > mounted /FOREIGN, and then the DCL scripts executed.
    >> >
    >> > (It's not 'cryptic like UNIX' anyway. It's a one-off, once a year, for
    >> > VMS and each LP one is actually using.)

    >>
    >> "1-KPJN-PLCO-BMEA-BFGJ" isn't cryptic?

    >
    > Not particularly....you have to type it just once, unlike UNIX commands
    > which you have to type all the time - which was the point I was making.
    > And it's shorter than the typical Windows licence key.


    And it's only one part of one line. A single mistake anywhere in any
    of the license data means start all over. Anyone who has read my posts
    woiuld realize just how easy it is to get a single typing error. And all
    the more easy when the stuff your typing is gibberish which doesn't make
    a lot of sense even when typed correctly. Yes, I have had systems where
    I had to type that code in by hand. And, yes, I have had numerous times
    when I had to do it over more than twice.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  7. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <00A8000C.08EFA441@sendspamhere.org>,
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    > In article <6jo8fbF48mkkU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>In article <00A7FFAA.43F9CC68@sendspamhere.org>,
    >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >>> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>>In article ,
    >>>> Howard S Shubs writes:
    >>>>> In article ,
    >>>>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> the respective workstations. It's only the machine, the CD set
    >>>>>> and me to get them up and running. On a scale which measures
    >>>>>> ease of installation until GUI and networking is running,
    >>>>>> VMS takes the absolute bottom notch, IMHO.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Have you tried it? If VMS comes on CD, you only need a serial terminal
    >>>>> to load it.
    >>>>
    >>>>Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    >>>>hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?
    >>>
    >>> What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    >>> something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    >>> perhaps?
    >>>
    >>> It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4
    >>>
    >>> Have you ever seen the crypitc keys on Micro$hit products? Here's one:
    >>> FG69P-J6H9M-VGYR9-X2C38-GTC4Q 5*5
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, Bill, billzebubs 666 code is SOOOO much easier.

    >>
    >>I didn't recommend Microsoft. I use FreeBSd and it has never asked me
    >>for a license. Linux doesn't either. And, I just did my first install
    >>of "Open Solaris" and it also didn't. As a matter of fact, it was one
    >>of the VMS faithful that recommended cut and paste from a Windows box.
    >>Go figure.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> At least. I'm not require to stick advert stickers on my hardware like
    >>> all of the idiots running Micro$hit products.

    >>
    >>I have installed a lot of OSes in my life. I have never had to "stick
    >>advert stickers on my hardware". It is making ridiculous claims like
    >>this that has made VMS and it's rabid advocates the laughing stock of
    >>the industry. And, yes, people here openly laugh at any mention of
    >>VMS.

    >
    > Ah, so you don't run Weendoze there at U. of Scranton. Good your you!
    > I'm pleased to hear that U. of Scranton is bucking the usual Micro$oft
    > on campus parade.


    I never said that. We run Windows all over the place. Or did you forget
    that I'm the guy with student labs that have not had a successful virus or
    malware attack since Windoews NT went away? I said I never had to "stick
    advert stickers on my hardware". I don't know where you get the idea that
    anyone is forced to do that. As for what is and isn't used here, it's VMS
    that got booted out of the academic door. And if you read my post back
    during the recent bug report thread you would have seen that VMS is on its
    way out of the administrative side of the house as well. As has been said
    here many times in the past, it is the applications that attract users.
    When those application migrate off of VMS so do the customers. That is the
    direction of travel here and I am sure many other schools as well.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  8. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jphh5F4es6iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article <00A8000C.08EFA441@sendspamhere.org>,
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >> In article <6jo8fbF48mkkU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>In article <00A7FFAA.43F9CC68@sendspamhere.org>,
    >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >>>> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>>>In article ,
    >>>>> Howard S Shubs writes:
    >>>>>> In article ,
    >>>>>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> the respective workstations. It's only the machine, the CD set
    >>>>>>> and me to get them up and running. On a scale which measures
    >>>>>>> ease of installation until GUI and networking is running,
    >>>>>>> VMS takes the absolute bottom notch, IMHO.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Have you tried it? If VMS comes on CD, you only need a serial terminal
    >>>>>> to load it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    >>>>>hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?
    >>>>
    >>>> What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    >>>> something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    >>>> perhaps?
    >>>>
    >>>> It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4
    >>>>
    >>>> Have you ever seen the crypitc keys on Micro$hit products? Here's one:
    >>>> FG69P-J6H9M-VGYR9-X2C38-GTC4Q 5*5
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah, Bill, billzebubs 666 code is SOOOO much easier.
    >>>
    >>>I didn't recommend Microsoft. I use FreeBSd and it has never asked me
    >>>for a license. Linux doesn't either. And, I just did my first install
    >>>of "Open Solaris" and it also didn't. As a matter of fact, it was one
    >>>of the VMS faithful that recommended cut and paste from a Windows box.
    >>>Go figure.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> At least. I'm not require to stick advert stickers on my hardware like
    >>>> all of the idiots running Micro$hit products.
    >>>
    >>>I have installed a lot of OSes in my life. I have never had to "stick
    >>>advert stickers on my hardware". It is making ridiculous claims like
    >>>this that has made VMS and it's rabid advocates the laughing stock of
    >>>the industry. And, yes, people here openly laugh at any mention of
    >>>VMS.

    >>
    >> Ah, so you don't run Weendoze there at U. of Scranton. Good your you!
    >> I'm pleased to hear that U. of Scranton is bucking the usual Micro$oft
    >> on campus parade.

    >
    >I never said that. We run Windows all over the place. Or did you forget
    >that I'm the guy with student labs that have not had a successful virus or
    >malware attack since Windoews NT went away? I said I never had to "stick
    >advert stickers on my hardware". I don't know where you get the idea that

    -----------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >anyone is forced to do that. As for what is and isn't used here, it's VMS

    _^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    The Micro$oft license agreement terms for one! They don't supply those
    very sticky stickers because Billzebub owns some glue factory.


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  9. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <00A8001D.8DC2B4EB@sendspamhere.org>,
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    > In article <6jphh5F4es6iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>In article <00A8000C.08EFA441@sendspamhere.org>,
    >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >>> In article <6jo8fbF48mkkU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>>In article <00A7FFAA.43F9CC68@sendspamhere.org>,
    >>>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >>>>> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>>>>In article ,
    >>>>>> Howard S Shubs writes:
    >>>>>>> In article ,
    >>>>>>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> the respective workstations. It's only the machine, the CD set
    >>>>>>>> and me to get them up and running. On a scale which measures
    >>>>>>>> ease of installation until GUI and networking is running,
    >>>>>>>> VMS takes the absolute bottom notch, IMHO.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Have you tried it? If VMS comes on CD, you only need a serial terminal
    >>>>>>> to load it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    >>>>>>hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What is crypitic? The checksum? Well, I suppose they could have chosen
    >>>>> something more english-like for the checksum like Throatwarbler Mangrove
    >>>>> perhaps?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's not that difficult: #-ABCD-EFGH-IJKL-MNOP 1+4*4
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Have you ever seen the crypitc keys on Micro$hit products? Here's one:
    >>>>> FG69P-J6H9M-VGYR9-X2C38-GTC4Q 5*5
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yeah, Bill, billzebubs 666 code is SOOOO much easier.
    >>>>
    >>>>I didn't recommend Microsoft. I use FreeBSd and it has never asked me
    >>>>for a license. Linux doesn't either. And, I just did my first install
    >>>>of "Open Solaris" and it also didn't. As a matter of fact, it was one
    >>>>of the VMS faithful that recommended cut and paste from a Windows box.
    >>>>Go figure.
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> At least. I'm not require to stick advert stickers on my hardware like
    >>>>> all of the idiots running Micro$hit products.
    >>>>
    >>>>I have installed a lot of OSes in my life. I have never had to "stick
    >>>>advert stickers on my hardware". It is making ridiculous claims like
    >>>>this that has made VMS and it's rabid advocates the laughing stock of
    >>>>the industry. And, yes, people here openly laugh at any mention of
    >>>>VMS.
    >>>
    >>> Ah, so you don't run Weendoze there at U. of Scranton. Good your you!
    >>> I'm pleased to hear that U. of Scranton is bucking the usual Micro$oft
    >>> on campus parade.

    >>
    >>I never said that. We run Windows all over the place. Or did you forget
    >>that I'm the guy with student labs that have not had a successful virus or
    >>malware attack since Windoews NT went away? I said I never had to "stick
    >>advert stickers on my hardware". I don't know where you get the idea that

    > -----------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>anyone is forced to do that. As for what is and isn't used here, it's VMS

    > _^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > The Micro$oft license agreement terms for one! They don't supply those
    > very sticky stickers because Billzebub owns some glue factory.


    Sorry, no one has ever come in here and held a gun to my head and forced
    me to do it. And the MSDNAA license my boss signed doesn't seem to require
    it either. My 1U servers have nothing on them to identify the hardware
    much less the OSes they run. And my labs are full of generic, home built
    PC's with no branding stickers of any kind on them. And I'll be damned if
    XP doesn't work just as well on them as it does on those IBM ThinkPads with
    all the stickers on them. Go figure.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  10. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jpli0F4efjaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >...{snip...}
    >> The Micro$oft license agreement terms for one! They don't supply those
    >> very sticky stickers because Billzebub owns some glue factory.

    >
    >Sorry, no one has ever come in here and held a gun to my head and forced
    >me to do it. And the MSDNAA license my boss signed doesn't seem to require
    >it either. My 1U servers have nothing on them to identify the hardware
    >much less the OSes they run. And my labs are full of generic, home built
    >PC's with no branding stickers of any kind on them. And I'll be damned if
    >XP doesn't work just as well on them as it does on those IBM ThinkPads with
    >all the stickers on them. Go figure.


    Conforming to license terms notwithstanding, it seems some people just
    don't give a **** when it comes to licensing or using copyrighted mat-
    erials. I came across a commercial product employing MY code. This is
    certainly illegal but what can I do about it? The sad part is that if
    someone came into my home and robbed me of my TV, the state authorities
    would be out after them but if somebody *steals* my livelihood, nobody
    bats an eye.

    What you do in the ivory towers of the university environment is *NOT*
    what I see in the corporate world. If there's a PeeCee in corporate
    environment and it is running Weendoze, you can bet that there will be
    a licensing sticker affixed to said box.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  11. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <00A8002F.E87C5A5A@sendspamhere.org>,
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    > In article <6jpli0F4efjaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>...{snip...}
    >>> The Micro$oft license agreement terms for one! They don't supply those
    >>> very sticky stickers because Billzebub owns some glue factory.

    >>
    >>Sorry, no one has ever come in here and held a gun to my head and forced
    >>me to do it. And the MSDNAA license my boss signed doesn't seem to require
    >>it either. My 1U servers have nothing on them to identify the hardware
    >>much less the OSes they run. And my labs are full of generic, home built
    >>PC's with no branding stickers of any kind on them. And I'll be damned if
    >>XP doesn't work just as well on them as it does on those IBM ThinkPads with
    >>all the stickers on them. Go figure.

    >
    > Conforming to license terms notwithstanding, it seems some people just
    > don't give a **** when it comes to licensing or using copyrighted mat-
    > erials. I came across a commercial product employing MY code.


    How did they get your code? As for doing soemthing about it, if it is,
    in fact, your code and provably so, a simple cease and desist letter
    should suffice. Followed by a very lucrative lawsuit if they refuse.

    > This is
    > certainly illegal but what can I do about it? The sad part is that if
    > someone came into my home and robbed me of my TV, the state authorities
    > would be out after them but if somebody *steals* my livelihood, nobody
    > bats an eye.
    >
    > What you do in the ivory towers of the university environment is *NOT*
    > what I see in the corporate world.


    I need only live up to the agreements that are part of MSDNAA which is
    where we get all our MS software. I have not been informed of any such
    requirement. And, yes, I do check. I actually had my boss check with
    MS about our use of some of these productes in labs as I read the license
    different than some of the faculty. Only after MS confirmed their
    interpretation did I go ahead with the planned use. You may have an
    axe to grind with academia, but as anyone who frequents the PDP-11
    groups will tell you, I am a strong believer in IP rights. Especially
    as they apply to computers and computer software.

    > If there's a PeeCee in corporate
    > environment and it is running Weendoze, you can bet that there will be
    > a licensing sticker affixed to said box.


    I have never seen any PC with an MS sticker on it that didn't come from the
    manufacturer that way. I have worked with self-built PC in academia,
    private industry, government and government contracting. I have never
    senn a system that was "home-built" that ever had some kind of MS sticker
    put on it. I can't even imagine where you would get them!!

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  12. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:22:45 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
    wrote:

    > In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-eNi8Kfi7Ikdy@rikki.tavi.co.uk>,
    > writes:
    > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:41:05 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-MF1Z8FqpOjTd@rikki.tavi.co.uk>,
    > >> writes:
    > >> > On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:56:19 UTC, Howard S Shubs
    > >> > wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> In article <6jnf9iF45kekU2@mid.individual.net>,
    > >> >> billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > Yeah, as long as your willing to type in the very cryptic license by
    > >> >> > hand. Who was it that accused Unix of being too cryptic?
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Didn't someone say that the licenses were on the CD in a command
    > >> >> procedure? Executing the command procedure isn't too bad.
    > >> >
    > >> > Don't think so. I said that it would be trivial to make a CD containing
    > >> > the two licence DCL scripts. One must have received them by email on
    > >> > *some* system, and one could probably burn an ISO CD. That could be
    > >> > mounted /FOREIGN, and then the DCL scripts executed.
    > >> >
    > >> > (It's not 'cryptic like UNIX' anyway. It's a one-off, once a year, for
    > >> > VMS and each LP one is actually using.)
    > >>
    > >> "1-KPJN-PLCO-BMEA-BFGJ" isn't cryptic?

    > >
    > > Not particularly....you have to type it just once, unlike UNIX commands
    > > which you have to type all the time - which was the point I was making.
    > > And it's shorter than the typical Windows licence key.

    >
    > And it's only one part of one line. A single mistake anywhere in any
    > of the license data means start all over.


    Not if you use VMSLICENSE.COM ... you just hit return until you get to
    the part that needs retyping - of which that checksum is the longest
    example.



  13. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jkh28F3m56qU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger writes:
    > On 2008-09-20 15:13, "Bill Gunshannon" wrote:
    >
    >
    > There is no need to run Windows at all -- take your favourite flavour of
    > Linux, *BSD, Solaris, ...


    There are only a couple of licenses needed to get VMS and TCP/IP up.
    Typing in just those two and copying the rest via the network is no
    big deal.

    Not like the days when all PAKs came on paper from DEC and you had to
    type them all in.


  14. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article , Michael Kraemer writes:
    > People keep telling me how superior VMS is over everything
    > else, but I'd need a lame PC to get it up and running.


    That's pretty deep BS.


  15. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jph0lF4es6iU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > And it's only one part of one line. A single mistake anywhere in any
    > of the license data means start all over. Anyone who has read my posts
    > woiuld realize just how easy it is to get a single typing error. And all
    > the more easy when the stuff your typing is gibberish which doesn't make
    > a lot of sense even when typed correctly. Yes, I have had systems where
    > I had to type that code in by hand. And, yes, I have had numerous times
    > when I had to do it over more than twice.


    Which would be a good reason to use sys$udpagte:vmslincense.com which
    separates the fields, remembers them, and builds the command for you.


  16. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <7gtJOPeTVchB@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article <6jkh28F3m56qU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger writes:
    >> On 2008-09-20 15:13, "Bill Gunshannon" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> There is no need to run Windows at all -- take your favourite flavour of
    >> Linux, *BSD, Solaris, ...

    >
    > There are only a couple of licenses needed to get VMS and TCP/IP up.
    > Typing in just those two and copying the rest via the network is no
    > big deal.


    Well, I knew that, but I didn't want ot spoil the illusion.

    >
    > Not like the days when all PAKs came on paper from DEC and you had to
    > type them all in.


    Don't the commercial ones still come that way?

    And I was still wondering about the comment made earlier about PAKS on a
    CD. I think I have it now. Didn't CSLG PAKS come on a CD?

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  17. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article , Michael Kraemer writes:
    >> People keep telling me how superior VMS is over everything
    >> else, but I'd need a lame PC to get it up and running.

    >
    > That's pretty deep BS.



    No, it's not. It's exactly what was said earlier in this very thread.

    In article <6jjrg0F3l6g9U1@mid.individual.net>,
    Michael Unger writes:
    >
    > Not really ...
    >
    > Establish a PuTTY terminal session from a PC to the console port, invoke
    > an editor, and cut'n'paste Montagar's license procedure into the
    > editor's window. (At least for the base and UCX/TCP-IP-Services licenses.)


    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  18. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article ,
    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >Michael Unger schrieb:
    >
    >> Assuming "hobbyist licenses" (commercial licenses are usually printed
    >> sheets of paper) sent via e-mail from Montagar you *definitely* need
    >> another *running* system (whatever HW and OS) to retrieve the e-mail.

    >
    >That's definitely true, unfortunately. But is M$ really mandatory ?
    >Usually I stored the stuff as a text file "somewhere",
    >entered the UCX license manually (pfff !) and fetched the Montagar
    >script via ftp. Stone age when compared with today's standards.
    >
    >>>1)
    >>>With which one can have some additional fun since the two OSs
    >>>apparently mutually mangle their TOY entries.

    >>
    >>
    >> Isn't the hardware clock simply counting "ticks"?

    >
    >On AlphaStations (at least) both OSs somehow leave their traces
    >in the clock chip. These are incompatible, so Tru64 complains
    >about "invalid time" (or sth like that) whenever VMS was booted before,
    >and probably vice versa. Not a big deal, though, but the respective
    >messages look pretty frightening at first glance (initially I was
    >looking for a bad battery to replace), and the whole thing
    >speaks volumes, IMHO, about QA and intra-company communication
    >within DEC in the mid-90s.
    >


    It's nothing about the intra-company communications. It's the historic
    difference in the epoch's and the way BSD Unix and VAX/VMS maintain
    their times. Consider it a historic artifact from the UCB developers
    doing Unix one way and the VMS folks using another. I bet the Tru64
    clock handling is derived from the Ultrix which is derived from the BSD.

    Bill


    --
    --
    Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and
    despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in
    computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com)

  19. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jpgr3F4es6iU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >In article ,
    > Joseph Huber writes:
    >> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>> Michael Unger schrieb:
    >>>
    >>>> Assuming "hobbyist licenses" (commercial licenses are usually printed
    >>>> sheets of paper) sent via e-mail from Montagar you *definitely* need
    >>>> another *running* system (whatever HW and OS) to retrieve the e-mail.
    >>>
    >>> Aah, I forgot: is it any better for commercial licenses, i.e.
    >>> would they come on floppy/CD so one would just have to run a
    >>> script with lmf commands ?
    >>>

    >>
    >> No, as said, commercial licenses come on paper, so You have to type them in.
    >>
    >> But something I never tested myself: isn't the client side of UCX (ftp
    >> client) running without license key loaded, only services need them ?
    >> Then it would be possible to load everything from the system where the
    >> license email is stored.

    >
    >Not on any VMS system I ever installed. Licenses were needed for clients as
    >well as servers.
    >
    >>
    >> Apropos commercial licenses: here VMS is on par with MS Windows:-)
    >> can You install it without typing the 30 -or so- character license key
    >> on the keyboard ?

    >
    >Which is irrelevant. If Bill Gates jumped off a bridge should VMS people
    >do it too? :-) And the original comparison was to Unix, anyway. So,
    >anybody here have any experience with HP-UX? How is license installation
    >handled there?
    >
    >bill
    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    IIRC they've got license keys as well. But, IIRC the HP-UX9 didn't
    require keys for the base level install. Not too unusual.
    Some of the layered products even required an HP-IL keyboard cable
    dongle.

    Bill

    --
    --
    Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and
    despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in
    computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com)

  20. Re: OpenVMS vs. Tru64?

    In article <6jpu8uF4fatdU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >In article <00A8002F.E87C5A5A@sendspamhere.org>,
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >> In article <6jpli0F4efjaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu

    >(Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>...{snip...}
    >>>> The Micro$oft license agreement terms for one! They don't supply those
    >>>> very sticky stickers because Billzebub owns some glue factory.
    >>>
    >>>Sorry, no one has ever come in here and held a gun to my head and forced
    >>>me to do it. And the MSDNAA license my boss signed doesn't seem to require
    >>>it either. My 1U servers have nothing on them to identify the hardware
    >>>much less the OSes they run. And my labs are full of generic, home built
    >>>PC's with no branding stickers of any kind on them. And I'll be damned if
    >>>XP doesn't work just as well on them as it does on those IBM ThinkPads with
    >>>all the stickers on them. Go figure.

    >>
    >> Conforming to license terms notwithstanding, it seems some people just
    >> don't give a **** when it comes to licensing or using copyrighted mat-
    >> erials. I came across a commercial product employing MY code.

    >
    >How did they get your code? As for doing soemthing about it, if it is,
    >in fact, your code and provably so, a simple cease and desist letter
    >should suffice. Followed by a very lucrative lawsuit if they refuse.
    >
    >> This is
    >> certainly illegal but what can I do about it? The sad part is that if
    >> someone came into my home and robbed me of my TV, the state authorities
    >> would be out after them but if somebody *steals* my livelihood, nobody
    >> bats an eye.
    >>
    >> What you do in the ivory towers of the university environment is *NOT*
    >> what I see in the corporate world.

    >
    >I need only live up to the agreements that are part of MSDNAA which is
    >where we get all our MS software. I have not been informed of any such
    >requirement. And, yes, I do check. I actually had my boss check with
    >MS about our use of some of these productes in labs as I read the license
    >different than some of the faculty. Only after MS confirmed their
    >interpretation did I go ahead with the planned use. You may have an
    >axe to grind with academia, but as anyone who frequents the PDP-11
    >groups will tell you, I am a strong believer in IP rights. Especially
    >as they apply to computers and computer software.
    >
    >> If there's a PeeCee in corporate
    >> environment and it is running Weendoze, you can bet that there will be
    >> a licensing sticker affixed to said box.

    >
    >I have never seen any PC with an MS sticker on it that didn't come from the
    >manufacturer that way. I have worked with self-built PC in academia,
    >private industry, government and government contracting. I have never
    >senn a system that was "home-built" that ever had some kind of MS sticker
    >put on it. I can't even imagine where you would get them!!
    >
    >bill
    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    The stickers now come from MS with the license key. The license
    requires them to be affixed to the machines now.

    Got this tidbit at an MS seminar that came along with my MS Partner
    stuff.

    Bill

    --
    --
    Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and
    despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in
    computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast