Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs - Debian

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Thread: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

  1. Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs


  2. Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

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  3. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    Hi Luca, thanks for the comment.

    On October 22, 2008 at 7:18PM +0200,
    luca (at pca.it) wrote:

    > > * Package name : alpaca

    > [...]
    > > * URL : http://www.mew.org/~kazu/proj/cipher/

    >
    > I think that a package for one single file is too much.


    Even so, the Debian package is helpful for users to install,
    upgrade and use it.

    > > Description : GnuPG file handling for Emacs
    > > `alpaca' is an Emacs Lisp package to edit GnuPG files encrypted with
    > > shared-key cryptography on GNU Emacs.
    > > .
    > > If this package is installed, when handling of a file whose suffix
    > > is ".gpg", this package asks your passphrase and then the file is
    > > automatically decrypted/encrypted.

    >
    > What are the advantages of alpaca over EasyPG [1]? FWIW with EasyPG you
    > get the same behavior when you handle a .gpg file and I was thinking
    > that (finally) EasyPG was the Emacs choice for everything GPG related.


    `alpaca' is an old and simple way.

    The old version of alpaca (named gpg.el) was released in 2003 and
    has been useful ever since. EasyPG, "yet another GnuPG interface
    for Emacs", version 0.0.1 was released in 2006, and then merged the
    development version of Emacs (will be 23.1 release) in 2008.

    `alpaca' just provides a hook function for *.gpg file handling.
    Meanwhile EasyPG is a powerful tool which also provides keyring
    browser, dired integration, mail functions and so on. So, the
    source code of alpaca is more small and simple.

    If you always use symmetric (shared-key) encryption for *.gpg
    files, alpaca is fit for you. Because alpaca always use symmetric
    encryption, while EasyPG asks user to select recipients and then
    symmetric encryption is used if no one is selected.

    Anyway, I'll add more information to the package description and
    README.Debian. Also, I'll consider the conflict of EasyPG. The
    alpaca feature should not be enabled when EasyPG's epa-file feature
    is enabled.

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  4. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs


    Tatsuya Kino****a writes:

    > Anyway, I'll add more information to the package description and
    > README.Debian. Also, I'll consider the conflict of EasyPG. The
    > alpaca feature should not be enabled when EasyPG's epa-file feature
    > is enabled.


    How about integrating/merging alpaca into EasyPG?

    --
    Gruesse/greetings,
    Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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  5. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On October 24, 2008 at 9:18AM +0200,
    siretart (at debian.org) wrote:

    > How about integrating/merging alpaca into EasyPG?


    I'll request the always-use-symmetric option to the EasyPG
    developer, which is a major blocker of migrating from alpaca to
    EasyPG, I think.

    Anyway, alpaca is a different implementation and well maintained by
    the other developer. I think that the alpaca package isn't
    meaningless even if less people use alpaca than EasyPG.

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  6. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On 11548 March 1977, Tatsuya Kino****a wrote:

    >> How about integrating/merging alpaca into EasyPG?

    > Anyway, alpaca is a different implementation and well maintained by
    > the other developer. I think that the alpaca package isn't
    > meaningless even if less people use alpaca than EasyPG.


    There is the emacs-goodies-el package, this would fit much better than a
    one-file-only package imo.

    --
    bye, Joerg
    Lalalala ... Ich bin die Sponsoren-Schlampe - Wer hat heute Lust?


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  7. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On October 25, 2008 at 12:34AM +0200,
    joerg (at debian.org) wrote:

    > On 11548 March 1977, Tatsuya Kino****a wrote:
    >
    > >> How about integrating/merging alpaca into EasyPG?

    > > Anyway, alpaca is a different implementation and well maintained by
    > > the other developer. I think that the alpaca package isn't
    > > meaningless even if less people use alpaca than EasyPG.

    >
    > There is the emacs-goodies-el package, this would fit much better than a
    > one-file-only package imo.


    Peter, the emacs-goodies-el package maintainer, do you think so?

    If so, I'll reassign this wnpp bug to the emacs-goodies-el package
    and tell you the information for merging alpaca.

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  8. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:14:53PM +0900, Tatsuya Kino****a wrote:
    > > I think that a package for one single file is too much.


    I agree with Luca here.
    FWIW I also formally object to this ITP.

    > Even so, the Debian package is helpful for users to install,
    > upgrade and use it.


    This is not an argument per se. Everything which should be installed
    on user machines can benefit to be managed as a package. Still, we
    have trade-offs to do about the maintainability of our package base.

    > `alpaca' is an old and simple way.
    >
    > The old version of alpaca (named gpg.el) was released in 2003 and
    > has been useful ever since. EasyPG, "yet another GnuPG interface
    > for Emacs", version 0.0.1 was released in 2006, and then merged the
    > development version of Emacs (will be 23.1 release) in 2008.


    Indeed, the fact that EasyPG is now integrated in development version
    of Emacs is my main reason for objecting this ITP. I'm using
    emacs-snapshot from [1] and without any configuration at all *.gpg
    files are handled properly. The level of integration is the same I
    used to have with gnupg.vim as shipped by vim-scripts.

    Hence the question goes as: considering that the next release of
    Debian is most likely going to be released with Emacs (>= 23.1), which
    is integrated properly with EasyPG, do we need alpaca in Debian? I
    believe the answer is no.

    [1] http://emacs.orebokech.com/

    > `alpaca' just provides a hook function for *.gpg file handling.
    > Meanwhile EasyPG is a powerful tool which also provides keyring
    > browser, dired integration, mail functions and so on. So, the
    > source code of alpaca is more small and simple.


    Yes, but EasyPG is integrated with a package we already have, and the
    complexity you are mentioning is not exposed to the random user of
    *.gpg files.

    Cheers.

    --
    Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
    zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
    Dietro un grande uomo c' sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right
    uno zaino -- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach

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  9. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On October 26, 2008 at 11:11AM +0100,
    zack (at debian.org) wrote:

    > Indeed, the fact that EasyPG is now integrated in development version
    > of Emacs is my main reason for objecting this ITP.

    [...]
    > Hence the question goes as: considering that the next release of
    > Debian is most likely going to be released with Emacs (>= 23.1), which
    > is integrated properly with EasyPG, do we need alpaca in Debian? I
    > believe the answer is no.

    [...]
    > > `alpaca' just provides a hook function for *.gpg file handling.
    > > Meanwhile EasyPG is a powerful tool which also provides keyring
    > > browser, dired integration, mail functions and so on. So, the
    > > source code of alpaca is more small and simple.

    >
    > Yes, but EasyPG is integrated with a package we already have, and the
    > complexity you are mentioning is not exposed to the random user of
    > *.gpg files.


    I think that the alpaca package isn't meaningless even if less
    people use alpaca than EasyPG.

    `alpaca' uses symmetric encryption with "--cipher-algo AES" for a
    new *.gpg file by default, while I haven't found an easy way to
    customizet EasyPG.

    To avoid the complexity of handling *.gpg files, I won't enable the
    alpaca feature if EasyPG is installed, and I'll suggest EasyPG and
    add more information in the alpaca package document.

    FYI: you may enable both alpaca and EasyPG's epa-file with setting
    alpaca-regex-suffix to "\\.gnupg$" (other than ".gpg").

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  10. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

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  11. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On October 26, 2008 at 3:34PM +0000,
    rswarbrick (at googlemail.com) wrote:

    > > `alpaca' uses symmetric encryption with "--cipher-algo AES" for a
    > > new *.gpg file by default, while I haven't found an easy way to
    > > customizet EasyPG.
    > >

    >
    > Anyway, the point of this post: gpg's default symmetric encryption
    > algorithm is CAST5 [1]. Looking through the epg code, I agree that there
    > isn't currently a way to customise this.

    [...]
    > However, I'm sure that the epg maintainers would be interested in
    > patches and/or further discussion about this. Maybe you should take the
    > topic to their mailing list?


    This is now discussed with the EasyPG author at Debian BTS here:

    http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugre...?bug=503302#16

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  12. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On October 26, 2008 at 9:12PM +0900,
    tats (at debian.org) wrote:

    > On October 26, 2008 at 11:11AM +0100,
    > zack (at debian.org) wrote:
    >
    > > Indeed, the fact that EasyPG is now integrated in development version
    > > of Emacs is my main reason for objecting this ITP.

    > [...]
    > > Hence the question goes as: considering that the next release of
    > > Debian is most likely going to be released with Emacs (>= 23.1), which
    > > is integrated properly with EasyPG, do we need alpaca in Debian? I
    > > believe the answer is no.

    [...]
    > I think that the alpaca package isn't meaningless even if less
    > people use alpaca than EasyPG.
    >
    > `alpaca' uses symmetric encryption with "--cipher-algo AES" for a
    > new *.gpg file by default, while I haven't found an easy way to
    > customizet EasyPG.
    >
    > To avoid the complexity of handling *.gpg files, I won't enable the
    > alpaca feature if EasyPG is installed, and I'll suggest EasyPG and
    > add more information in the alpaca package document.


    I don't intend to push alpaca into the Emacs main tree. Please
    allow making just an optional Debian package.

    Does anyone still strongly have objection to this ITP? If so,
    please tell me against the above comments.

    If not, I'll make and upload the package soon.

    Thanks,
    --
    Tatsuya Kino****a

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  13. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:51:55PM +0900, Tatsuya Kino****a wrote:
    > I don't intend to push alpaca into the Emacs main tree. Please
    > allow making just an optional Debian package.
    >
    > Does anyone still strongly have objection to this ITP? If so,
    > please tell me against the above comments.


    Yes, I still object the ITP. If you firmly believe that it can not
    (easily) be integrated into Emacs main tree, at least put it into
    emacs-goodies-el: alpaca is still *a single file*, we don't want
    1-filer packages in the archive. Really.

    You did mail the maintainer in this thread, but no reply was
    received. Turn it into a feature request against emacs-goodies-el,
    provide patch, ..., at worst upload a patched package to DELAYED/1000
    (which seems a bit premature right now).

    Cc-ing emacs-goodies-el maintainers.

    Cheers.

    --
    Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
    zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
    Dietro un grande uomo c' sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right
    uno zaino -- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach

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  14. Re: Bug#503096: ITP: alpaca -- GnuPG file handling for Emacs

    >> > Hence the question goes as: considering that the next release of
    >> > Debian is most likely going to be released with Emacs (>= 23.1), which
    >> > is integrated properly with EasyPG, do we need alpaca in Debian? I
    >> > believe the answer is no.

    >> I think that the alpaca package isn't meaningless even if less
    >> people use alpaca than EasyPG.
    >> `alpaca' uses symmetric encryption with "--cipher-algo AES" for a
    >> new *.gpg file by default, while I haven't found an easy way to
    >> customizet EasyPG.
    >> To avoid the complexity of handling *.gpg files, I won't enable the
    >> alpaca feature if EasyPG is installed, and I'll suggest EasyPG and
    >> add more information in the alpaca package document.

    > I don't intend to push alpaca into the Emacs main tree. Please
    > allow making just an optional Debian package.


    > Does anyone still strongly have objection to this ITP? If so,
    > please tell me against the above comments.


    Yes I have, this package for *one single file* won't make it into
    Debian, sorry. Please have it included in emacs-goodies-el, it seems to
    fit very well there.

    --
    bye, Joerg
    [Talking about Social Contract]:
    We will not discriminate noone[...]
    [So we discriminate anyone?]


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