Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ‘lenny-ignore’? - Debian

This is a discussion on Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ‘lenny-ignore’? - Debian ; Hi, On Monday 27 October 2008 19:35, Frank Küster wrote: > If the PDF is frozen documentation, it's probably worth the effort. If > upstream changes the PDF with every new version, you should ask them for > their sources ...

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Thread: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ‘lenny-ignore’?

  1. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

    Hi,

    On Monday 27 October 2008 19:35, Frank Küster wrote:
    > If the PDF is frozen documentation, it's probably worth the effort. If
    > upstream changes the PDF with every new version, you should ask them for
    > their sources instead.


    What if they use openoffice.org to edit the pdf and the pdf is the source?


    regards,
    Holger

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  2. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

    On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:30:10PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > On Monday 27 October 2008 19:35, Frank Küster wrote:
    > > If the PDF is frozen documentation, it's probably worth the effort. If
    > > upstream changes the PDF with every new version, you should ask them for
    > > their sources instead.

    >
    > What if they use openoffice.org to edit the pdf and the pdf is the source?


    Can we please come back to discussing _real_ problems and deal with
    hypothetical ones when they arise?

    Thomas


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  3. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

    Thomas Weber dijo [Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:55:52PM +0100]:
    > > > If the PDF is frozen documentation, it's probably worth the effort. If
    > > > upstream changes the PDF with every new version, you should ask them for
    > > > their sources instead.

    > >
    > > What if they use openoffice.org to edit the pdf and the pdf is the source?

    >
    > Can we please come back to discussing _real_ problems and deal with
    > hypothetical ones when they arise?


    Probably to help us generalize, and to avoid being bitten by said
    problems - which can be real, very real and very hard to route around?

    A PDF _can_ be the source - If it uses OpenOffice's new Hybrid PDF
    format [1], which embeds an ODF. Of course, that is _very_ seldom the
    case. (and writing practically anything with OOo is... Bah, I just
    hate the Office mindset. It is an inefficient as it gets!)

    [1] http://www.oooninja.com/2008/06/pdf-...ension-30.html

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  4. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

    Gunnar Wolf wrote:
    > A PDF _can_ be the source - If it uses OpenOffice's new Hybrid PDF
    > format [1], which embeds an ODF. Of course, that is _very_ seldom the
    > case. (and writing practically anything with OOo is... Bah, I just
    > hate the Office mindset. It is an inefficient as it gets!)
    >

    You can edit PDF files with Adobe Acrobat too. They don't need to by
    hybrid documents.

    I think this is very dodgy and also requires proprietary software to do
    the editing. I don't know of any DFSG software that will do the same thing.

    However it is possible.

    Is there any requirement that says the source code must be editable in a
    sane manner (e.g. editing a PDF file with a binary hex editor would not
    be sane) with entirely DFSG compliant tools?

    Brian May



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  5. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

    On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Brian May
    wrote:

    > You can edit PDF files with Adobe Acrobat too. They don't need to by
    > hybrid documents.
    >
    > I think this is very dodgy and also requires proprietary software to do
    > the editing. I don't know of any DFSG software that will do the same thing.


    pdfedit is in main, and works when it doesn't crash.

    > Is there any requirement that says the source code must be editable in a
    > sane manner (e.g. editing a PDF file with a binary hex editor would not
    > be sane) with entirely DFSG compliant tools?


    That would be a practical matter rather than a DFSG one IMO. We have
    packages in Debian that are in this situation right now, check the
    archived bugs on beneath-a-steel-sky for example. #442192 from the
    nsis package is another example.

    --
    bye,
    pabs

    http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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  6. What source is [Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????]

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2008, Brian May wrote:
    > Is there any requirement that says the source code must be editable
    > in a sane manner (e.g. editing a PDF file with a binary hex editor
    > would not be sane) with entirely DFSG compliant tools?


    Source code is the (digitally-distributable) form of a work that is
    (closest to) the prefered form of modification.[0] That is to say, the
    form of the work that the upstream author would actually use to modify
    the work.

    If the upstream author modifies the work using a binary hex editor,
    then that's what the source is.[1]

    There may be open questions about whether we need to provide source
    for everything,[2] and whether source includes the tools necessary to
    build and/or modify,[3] but those are separate questions, none of
    which are particularly on topic on this mailing list. [-project is the
    appropriate place to discuss that.]


    Don Armstrong

    0: The parentheticals deal with cases where the prefered form of
    modification has been lost or the prefered form of modification is
    some kind of physical object that can't be distributed.

    1: I'd argue against distributing something because it would be
    impossible to maintain, and the upstream author is likely to be
    insane, but that's nothing to do with the DFSG.

    2: Like firmware or documentation

    3: Compilers, editors, etc.

    --
    To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is
    research.
    -- Steven Wright

    http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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  7. Re: Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged ???lenny-ignore????

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