[RFC] Some updates to the installation guide - Debian

This is a discussion on [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide - Debian ; Hi! Attached you will find some updates that I would like to make to the installation guide. Reviews welcome. Cheers, -- Jérémy Bobbio .''`. lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism `. `'` `- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG ...

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  1. [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    Hi!

    Attached you will find some updates that I would like to make to the
    installation guide. Reviews welcome.

    Cheers,
    --
    Jérémy Bobbio .''`.
    lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism
    `. `'`
    `-

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  2. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    Jérémy Bobbio writes:

    > commit 106eb89ff5d286f43d0905b266b3aaae4d53d7f1
    > Author: Jérémy Bobbio
    > Date: Sun Aug 24 09:49:37 2008 +0000
    >
    > Remove MCA, VLB; add PCIe in i386 bus list
    >
    > diff --git a/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > index 60a2b71..f53eab4 100644
    > --- a/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > @@ -69,10 +69,8 @@ be easily used by most Debian packages; now they can.
    >
    > The system bus is the part of the motherboard which allows the CPU to
    > communicate with peripherals such as storage devices. Your computer
    > -must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, the Microchannel Architecture (MCA, used
    > -in IBM's PS/2 line), or VESA Local Bus (VLB, sometimes called the VL
    > -bus). Essentially all personal computers sold in recent years use one
    > -of these.
    > +must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe. Essentially all personal computers sold in
    > +recent years use one of these.
    >
    >
    >


    The result would read: Your computer must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe.
    Which sounds strange to me (though English isn't my native tongue).
    I'd prefer: Your computer must use the ISA, EISA, PCI or PCIe bus standard.
    --
    Regards,
    Feri.


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  3. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 09:13:30PM +0200, Ferenc Wagner wrote:
    > The result would read: Your computer must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe.
    > Which sounds strange to me (though English isn't my native tongue).
    > I'd prefer: Your computer must use the ISA, EISA, PCI or PCIe bus standard.


    Locally updated. Thanks for the review.

    Cheers,
    --
    Jérémy Bobbio .''`.
    lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism
    `. `'`
    `-

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  4. [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide (2nd round)

    On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 04:32:37PM +0200, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
    > Attached you will find some updates that I would like to make to the
    > installation guide. Reviews welcome.


    More updates attached. More reviews welcome.

    Cheers,
    --
    Jérémy Bobbio .''`.
    lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism
    `. `'`
    `-

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  5. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    On Sunday 24 August 2008, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
    > Attached you will find some updates that I would like to make to the
    > installation guide. Reviews welcome.


    Comments start with 'FJP:'.
    If there is no comment for a change I'm fine with applying it.

    General comment: please always be aware that the manual has translations.
    Small changes cause a lot of work for many people. Often it is just not
    worth it and needless changes should especially be avoided close to a
    release. Cleanups and major rewrites are fine, but please plan them for
    just _after_ a release.

    BTW, someone will need to take care of a release of the manual (string
    freeze, call for translations, check of translations to include, upload,
    migration to testing).


    +++ b/manual/debian/changelog
    + * Explicitely mention than preseeded keymaps must be known to d-i.
    + Closes: #493720

    FJP: 'Explicitly mention that' (2 errors)

    +++ b/manual/en/appendix/preseed.xml
    +be known to the debian-installer for the selected keyboard architecture.

    FJP: Please use '&d-i;' for debian-installer.

    +++ b/manual/en/appendix/preseed.xml
    +# The same can be applied to previous software RAID array:
    +d-i parman-md/device_remove_md boolean true

    FJP: s/can be applied/applies to/ s/previous/pre-existing/

    +++ b/manual/en/preface.xml
    - Installing &debian; &release; For &architecture;
    + Installing &debian; &release; for &architecture;


    FJP: I'm personally no fan of the (I think American) way of capitalizing
    headers, but it is something that is done all over the place in the
    manual (though inconsistently).
    I would not change just one instance of it and I would also not do it
    *now*; it just creates needless work for translators.

    +++ b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    @@ -69,10 +69,8 @@ be easily used by most Debian packages; now they can.

    The system bus is the part of the motherboard which allows the CPU to
    communicate with peripherals such as storage devices. Your computer
    -must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, the Microchannel Architecture (MCA, used
    -in IBM's PS/2 line), or VESA Local Bus (VLB, sometimes called the VL
    -bus). Essentially all personal computers sold in recent years use one
    -of these.
    +must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe. Essentially all personal computers sold in
    +recent years use one of these.

    FJP: Are the other busses definitely no longer supported? If they still
    are I think there should be a second para mentioning them.

    +++ b/manual/en/hardware/memory-disk-requirements.xml
    Installation images that support the graphical installer require more
    memory than images that support only the textual installer and should
    -not be used on systems with less than &minimum-memory; of memory. If
    +not be used on systems with less than &minimum-memory-gtk; of memory. If
    there is a choice between booting the regular and the graphical installer,
    the former should be selected.

    FJP: This change is *not* correct! A g-i image can be used perfectly well
    on systems with less than 96MB RAM, you just won't get the graphical
    frontend. This text is about systems with so little memory that the
    initrd cannot be loaded, which is below &minimum-memory;.

    +++ b/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml
    @@ -52,7 +52,7 @@ up by other means; see .
    -Both SCSI and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The +SCSI, SATA and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The
    FJP: For all these changes: if SATA is added then why not PATA?
    I'm personally still not 100% clear about the exact relationship
    between SATA, PATA and IDE, but if we change this we should do it
    properly.

    +++ b/manual/en/preparing/needed-info.xml
    @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ networking and e-mail.
    - Whether IDE or SCSI (most computers are IDE).
    + Whether IDE, SATA or SCSI (most computers are IDE).

    FJP: That last comment between brackets may not even be true anymore, at
    least not for new systems.

    commit 886f1bd1ad4ca781491d1746c8e5ecd21c9bbd2d
    Author: J�r�my Bobbio
    Date: Sun Aug 24 14:05:46 2008 +0200

    Emphase that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.

    FJP: 'Emphasize' ?

    +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml
    @@ -15,10 +15,11 @@ detailed instructions). If you have a Debian CD set andCDs are
    bootable on your machine, you can skip right to
    ; much effort has been expended to ensure
    the files most people need are there on the CD. Although a full set of
    -binary packages requires several CDs, it is unlikely you will need
    -packages on the third CD and above. You may also consider using the
    +binary packages requires several CDs, it is unlikely you will need
    +packages on the third CD and above
    . You may also consider usingthe
    DVD version, which saves a lot of space on your shelf and you avoid
    -the CD shuffling marathon.
    +the CD shuffling marathon. Likewise, the first DVD should be
    +sufficient for most installations
    .

    FJP: I don't really like making larger parts of sentences italic like this.

    +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml
    -The normal installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now
    +The usual installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now

    FJP: If don't think this needs changing. In fact, both are probably not
    what we want to say...

    +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/modules/pkgsel.xml
    -Web server: apache.
    +Web server: apache2.

    FJP: One important update that needs to be done before the release is the
    task sizes!

    +++ b/manual/en/howto/installation-howto.xml
    Now it is time to partition your disks. First you will be given the
    opportunity to automatically partition either an entire drive, or available
    -free space on a drive (guided partitioning).
    -This is recommended for new users or anyone in a hurry. If you do not want
    -to autopartition, choose Manual from the menu.
    +free space on a drive (see ). This is
    +recommended for new users or anyone in a hurry. If you do not want to
    +autopartition, choose Manual from the menu.

    FJP: Please avoid reformatting lines you do not change (the last 2).
    That helps make the actual changes clearer for translators who
    do not use PO files.

    - has more information about partitioning.
    + has more information about partitioning and
    + more details on how to use the partitioner.

    FJP: s/more/has more/
    Maybe make this last sentence a separate para?

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  6. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:13:15AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > Comments start with 'FJP:'.


    Thanks for your review.

    > +++ b/manual/debian/changelog
    > + * Explicitely mention than preseeded keymaps must be known to d-i.
    > + Closes: #493720
    >
    > FJP: 'Explicitly mention that' (2 errors)


    Fixed.

    > +++ b/manual/en/appendix/preseed.xml
    > +be known to the debian-installer for the selected keyboard architecture.
    >
    > FJP: Please use '&d-i;' for debian-installer.


    Fixed.

    > +++ b/manual/en/appendix/preseed.xml
    > +# The same can be applied to previous software RAID array:
    > +d-i parman-md/device_remove_md boolean true
    >
    > FJP: s/can be applied/applies to/ s/previous/pre-existing/


    Fixed.

    > +++ b/manual/en/preface.xml
    > - Installing &debian; &release; For &architecture;
    > + Installing &debian; &release; for &architecture;
    >
    >
    > FJP: I'm personally no fan of the (I think American) way of capitalizing
    > headers, but it is something that is done all over the place in the
    > manual (though inconsistently).
    > I would not change just one instance of it and I would also not do it
    > *now*; it just creates needless work for translators.


    Dropped.

    > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > @@ -69,10 +69,8 @@ be easily used by most Debian packages; now they can.
    >
    > The system bus is the part of the motherboard which allows the CPU to
    > communicate with peripherals such as storage devices. Your computer
    > -must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, the Microchannel Architecture (MCA, used
    > -in IBM's PS/2 line), or VESA Local Bus (VLB, sometimes called the VL
    > -bus). Essentially all personal computers sold in recent years use one
    > -of these.
    > +must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe. Essentially all personal computers sold in
    > +recent years use one of these.
    >
    > FJP: Are the other busses definitely no longer supported? If they still
    > are I think there should be a second para mentioning them.


    As far as I have found, they are not mentioned in current kernel
    configuration files.

    > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/memory-disk-requirements.xml
    > Installation images that support the graphical installer require more
    > memory than images that support only the textual installer and should
    > -not be used on systems with less than &minimum-memory; of memory. If
    > +not be used on systems with less than &minimum-memory-gtk; of memory. If
    > there is a choice between booting the regular and the graphical installer,
    > the former should be selected.
    >
    > FJP: This change is *not* correct! A g-i image can be used perfectly well
    > on systems with less than 96MB RAM, you just won't get the graphical
    > frontend. This text is about systems with so little memory that the
    > initrd cannot be loaded, which is below &minimum-memory;.


    Thanks for explaining the difference. Dropped.

    > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml
    > @@ -52,7 +52,7 @@ up by other means; see .
    > -Both SCSI and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The > +SCSI, SATA and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The >
    > FJP: For all these changes: if SATA is added then why not PATA?
    > I'm personally still not 100% clear about the exact relationship
    > between SATA, PATA and IDE, but if we change this we should do it
    > properly.


    As far as I understand, SATA is based on the ATA (also called IDE)
    command set, so Serial ATA devices are actually IDE devices. To mark the
    difference with the previous connectors which use _p_arallel signaling,
    those are called PATA.

    Except that the previous term never got caught by hardware resellers, at
    least in my area. They call newer devices SATA and older IDE.

    In any cases, here's an updated version mentioning PATA as well:

    --- 8< ---
    commit 04bba95c78b368d92e0438e8f27bbd107b4e420a
    Author: Jérémy Bobbio
    Date: Sun Aug 24 10:39:25 2008 +0000

    Mention SATA and PATA along IDE

    diff --git a/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml b/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml
    index 93fe9c2..3347111 100644
    --- a/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml
    +++ b/manual/en/hardware/installation-media.xml
    @@ -52,7 +52,7 @@ up by other means; see .



    -Both SCSI and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The +SCSI, SATA and IDE/ATAPI CD-ROMs are supported. The url="&url-cd-howto;">Linux CD-ROM HOWTO contains in-depth information
    on using CD-ROMs with Linux.

    @@ -182,15 +182,15 @@ installed on the widest array of hardware.


    Generally, the Debian installation system includes support for floppies,
    -IDE drives, IDE floppies, parallel port IDE devices, SCSI controllers and
    -drives, USB, and FireWire. The supported file systems include FAT,
    -Win-32 FAT extensions (VFAT) and NTFS.
    +IDE (also known as PATA) drives, IDE floppies, parallel port IDE devices, SATA
    +and SCSI controllers and drives, USB, and FireWire. The supported file systems
    +include FAT, Win-32 FAT extensions (VFAT) and NTFS.



    Disk interfaces that emulate the AT hard disk interface
    -— often called MFM, RLL, IDE, or ATA — are supported. SCSI disk
    -controllers from many different manufacturers are supported. See the
    +— often called MFM, RLL, IDE, or PATA — are supported. SATA and
    +SCSI disk controllers from many different manufacturers are supported. Seethe
    Linux Hardware Compatibility HOWTO
    for more details.

    diff --git a/manual/en/preparing/needed-info.xml b/manual/en/preparing/needed-info.xml
    index 04574e7..7589751 100644
    --- a/manual/en/preparing/needed-info.xml
    +++ b/manual/en/preparing/needed-info.xml
    @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ networking and e-mail.
    Their order on the system.


    - Whether IDE or SCSI (most computers are IDE).
    + Whether IDE (also known as PATA), SATA or SCSI.


    Whether IDE or SCSI (most m68k computers are SCSI).
    --- >8 ---

    > commit 886f1bd1ad4ca781491d1746c8e5ecd21c9bbd2d
    > Author: J�r�my Bobbio
    > Date: Sun Aug 24 14:05:46 2008 +0200
    >
    > Emphase that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.
    >
    > FJP: 'Emphasize' ?


    *ahem* that was en_FR. Fixed.

    > FJP: I don't really like making larger parts of sentences italic like this.


    How about:

    --- 8< ---
    commit 01c75db67a307bae96b334f33e2ac82308be4119
    Author: Jérémy Bobbio
    Date: Sun Aug 24 14:05:46 2008 +0200

    Emphazise that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.

    diff --git a/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml b/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml
    index 3b8c449..b585ba5 100644
    --- a/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml
    +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml
    @@ -15,10 +15,11 @@ detailed instructions). If you have a Debian CD set andCDs are
    bootable on your machine, you can skip right to
    ; much effort has been expended to ensure
    the files most people need are there on the CD. Although a full set of
    -binary packages requires several CDs, it is unlikely you will need
    +binary packages requires several CDs, it is unlikely you will need
    packages on the third CD and above. You may also consider using the
    DVD version, which saves a lot of space on your shelf and you avoid
    -the CD shuffling marathon.
    +the CD shuffling marathon. Likewise, the first DVD should be
    +sufficient for most installations.


    --- >8 ---

    > +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml
    > -The normal installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now
    > +The usual installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now
    >
    > FJP: If don't think this needs changing. In fact, both are probably not
    > what we want to say...


    How about:

    --- 8< ---
    commit 9fd6383f5c6e5f8ff5ce0f229f1292ea669c2b91
    Author: Jérémy Bobbio
    Date: Thu Sep 11 12:07:05 2008 +0000

    Update d-i-intro now that we have a graphical frontend

    diff --git a/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml
    index 9c6e410..f450a6e 100644
    --- a/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml
    +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml
    @@ -56,11 +56,17 @@ they are installed, you will need to start the installer in
    the boot argument priority=low.
    Expert mode gives you full control over &d-i;.

    +

    +
    +When selected during the initial boot menu, a graphical interface can be used
    +to perform the installation. For more information about the graphical
    +installer, please refer to .
    +


    -The usual installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now
    -more familiar graphical interface). The mouse is not operational in
    -this environment. Here are the keys you can use to navigate within the
    +When the installation is performed using the character-based display (as
    +opposed to the now more familiar graphical interface), the mouse will not
    +be operational. Here are the keys you can use to navigate within the
    various dialogs. The Tab or right
    arrow keys move forward, and the Shift
    Tab
    or left arrow keys
    --- >8 ---

    > - has more information about partitioning.
    > + has more information about partitioning and
    > + more details on how to use the partitioner.
    >
    > FJP: s/more/has more/
    > Maybe make this last sentence a separate para?


    Would the following be better?

    --- 8< ---
    commit 02ab7e5ef96d1bcc98eed703fa0f1c1e48635aea
    Author: Jérémy Bobbio
    Date: Sun Aug 24 15:41:13 2008 +0200

    Add references to partman-{auto,manual} in howto

    diff --git a/manual/en/howto/installation-howto.xml b/manual/en/howto/installation-howto.xml
    index 01491ad..2c66862 100644
    --- a/manual/en/howto/installation-howto.xml
    +++ b/manual/en/howto/installation-howto.xml
    @@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ installer will only ask to select one if a country has multiple zones.

    Now it is time to partition your disks. First you will be given the
    opportunity to automatically partition either an entire drive, or available
    -free space on a drive (guided partitioning).
    +free space on a drive (see ).
    This is recommended for new users or anyone in a hurry. If you do not want
    to autopartition, choose Manual from the menu.

    @@ -269,6 +269,8 @@ delete it. If you did automatic partitioning, you should just be able to choose
    from the menu to use what it set up. Remember to assign at least one partition
    for swap space and to mount a partition on /.
    has more information about partitioning.
    +For more details on how to use the partitioner, please refer to
    +.


    --- >8 ---

    Cheers,
    --
    Jérémy Bobbio .''`.
    lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism
    `. `'`
    `-

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  7. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    On Thursday 11 September 2008, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
    > > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > > -in IBM's PS/2 line), or VESA Local Bus (VLB, sometimes
    > > called the VL -bus). Essentially all personal computers sold in
    > > recent years use one -of these.
    > > +must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe. Essentially all personal
    > > computers sold in +recent years use one of these.
    > >
    > > FJP: Are the other busses definitely no longer supported? If they
    > > still are I think there should be a second para mentioning them.

    >
    > As far as I have found, they are not mentioned in current kernel
    > configuration files.


    drivers/ata/Kconfig: This option enables support for ISA/VLB bus
    legacy PATA
    drivers/eisa/Kconfig: Bus (VLB) card that identify itself as an EISA
    card (such as

    > As far as I understand, SATA is based on the ATA (also called IDE)
    > command set, so Serial ATA devices are actually IDE devices. To mark
    > the difference with the previous connectors which use _p_arallel
    > signaling, those are called PATA.


    Right. The problem in your new proposed patches is that you lump SATA
    together with SCSI which IMO is not correct. From a hardware PoV it is
    AIIU much more logical to group PATA and SATA together as two IDE-based
    technologies and leave SCSI somewhat separate.
    I understand where the feeling to have SATA and SCSI together comes from
    (mainly probably IDE=hdX, SATA/SCSI=sdX), but that does not make it
    correct. Especially since "old" IDE or PATA is now also sdX.

    > Except that the previous term never got caught by hardware resellers,
    > at least in my area. They call newer devices SATA and older IDE.


    No, but users will start seeing (p)ata_XXX drivers being used for their
    IDE devices...

    > In any cases, here's an updated version mentioning PATA as well:


    s/cases/case/ ;-)

    > > Emphase that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.
    > >
    > > FJP: 'Emphasize' ?

    ^^^
    > *ahem* that was en_FR. Fixed.
    >
    > Emphazise that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.

    ^^^

    Hmm. Dyslexia?

    > +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml


    I still feel that the text is perfectly clear without the added
    .

    > +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml

    This really needs a much more fundamental rewrite. In fact, an explanation
    of the frontends should IMO not be in chapter 5, but much earlier in the
    manual (a rewritten chapter 2 or 3).

    > @@ -56,11 +56,17 @@ they are installed, you will need to start the
    > installer in the boot argument priority=low.
    > Expert mode gives you full control over &d-i;.
    >
    > +
    > +
    > +When selected during the initial boot menu, a graphical interface can
    > be used +to perform the installation. For more information about the
    > graphical +installer, please refer to .
    > +


    I would make this something like:


    For this architecture the &d-i; supports two different user interfaces: a
    character-based one and a graphical one. The character-based interface is
    used by default unless you selected the Graphical install
    option in the initial boot menu. For more information ...



    For this architecture the installer uses a character-based user interface.
    A graphical user interface is currently not available.



    These first sentences can then be dropped (it does not make sense anyway):

    > -The usual installer display is character-based (as opposed to the now
    > -more familiar graphical interface). The mouse is not operational in
    > -this environment.


    And replaced by something like:
    In the character-based environment the use of a mouse is not supported.

    > Would the following be better?

    [...]
    > has more information about partitioning.
    > +For more details on how to use the partitioner, please refer to
    > +.


    Why not just refer to the whole para (link: di-partition) instead?

    I would say:
    For more detailed information on how to use the partitioner, please refer
    to ; the appendix linkend="partitioning" /> has more general information about
    partitioning.

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  8. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide (2nd round)

    On Monday 25 August 2008, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
    > More updates attached. More reviews welcome.


    Same deal.

    Cheers,
    FJP

    +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/downloading-files.xml
    +Using the apt-spy package on an already installed
    +Debian system can also help you in finding the fastest mirror available.

    FJP: I'd tried apt-spy before and did again a few days ago and must say
    I'm not impressed. Getting it to do anything at all is not trivial.
    I had serious trouble finding that the "suite" option is required
    (would have been much better if that was a parameter instead).
    It segfaults if you give an option that needs a parameter without
    the parameter. It's not clear whether you should give a country
    name or code.
    But most of all, if I try it for NL, *only* ftp.nl.d.o is tried,
    which is rather useless.

    My conclusion is that it is *not* a tool for newbies. And especially
    for areas where you'd need it most you'd probably need to provide the
    list of mirrors to test manually.

    I personally would not mention it in the installation guide.

    +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/modules/partman.xml
    +Each partition line consists of the partition number, its type, size, optional
    +flags, file system, and mountpoint.

    FJP: Note that this differs for some disk labels!

    Manual Partitioning

    FJP: Maybe add a para explaining that pre-existing LVM/RAID will be
    activated and listed by default, but that pre-existing encrypted
    partitions will not be? Not sure if that should be here or earlier.

    +If you choose manual partitioning, you will be presented with a list of
    +your existing partitions. How to manually setup your partition table and the
    +usage of partitions by your new Debian system will be covered in the remainder
    +of this section. After make the necessary changes, the partition list might
    +look like this:

    FJP: s/make/making/

    +This example shows two IDE harddrives divided into several partitions;
    +the first disk has some free space. Each partition line consists of the
    +partition number, its type, size, optional flags, file system, and
    +mountpoint (if any).

    FJP: s/harddrives/hard drives/
    FJP: Same comment as above.

    +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/modules/lowmem.xml
    @@ -29,13 +29,13 @@ additional memory and thus may cause the installation to fail.



    -If the installer runs in low memory mode, it is recommended to create
    -a relatively large swap partition (64–128MB). The swap partition
    -will be used as virtual memory and thus increases the amount of memory
    -available to the system. The installer will activate the swap partition
    -as early as possible in the installation process. Note that heavy use
    -of swap will reduce performance of your system and may lead to high
    -disk activity.
    +If the installer runs in low memory mode, it is recommended to create a
    +relatively large swap partition (at least 64–128MB). The swap
    +partition will be used as virtual memory and thus increases the amount
    +of memory available to the system. The installer will activate the swap
    +partition as early as possible in the installation process. Note that
    +heavy use of swap will reduce performance of your system and may lead to
    +high disk activity.

    FJP: Please do not reformat the whole para for a minor change.
    Suggest to remove the "–128" if you add "at least".

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  9. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide

    On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 04:12:32PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > On Thursday 11 September 2008, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
    > > > +++ b/manual/en/hardware/supported/i386.xml
    > > > -in IBM's PS/2 line), or VESA Local Bus (VLB, sometimes
    > > > called the VL -bus). Essentially all personal computers sold in
    > > > recent years use one -of these.
    > > > +must use the ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe. Essentially all personal
    > > > computers sold in +recent years use one of these.
    > > >
    > > > FJP: Are the other busses definitely no longer supported? If they
    > > > still are I think there should be a second para mentioning them.

    > >
    > > As far as I have found, they are not mentioned in current kernel
    > > configuration files.

    >
    > drivers/ata/Kconfig: This option enables support for ISA/VLB bus
    > legacy PATA
    > drivers/eisa/Kconfig: Bus (VLB) card that identify itself as an EISA
    > card (such as


    Ok. Patch locally updated to keep VLB.

    > > As far as I understand, SATA is based on the ATA (also called IDE)
    > > command set, so Serial ATA devices are actually IDE devices. To mark
    > > the difference with the previous connectors which use _p_arallel
    > > signaling, those are called PATA.

    >
    > Right. The problem in your new proposed patches is that you lump SATA
    > together with SCSI which IMO is not correct. From a hardware PoV it is
    > AIIU much more logical to group PATA and SATA together as two IDE-based
    > technologies and leave SCSI somewhat separate.
    > I understand where the feeling to have SATA and SCSI together comes from
    > (mainly probably IDE=hdX, SATA/SCSI=sdX), but that does not make it
    > correct. Especially since "old" IDE or PATA is now also sdX.


    I have tried but have not been able to reflect these subtle differences
    in a way that felt nice to read…

    > > > Emphase that not all CDs are DVDs are needed.

    > […]
    > > +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/official-cdrom.xml

    >
    > I still feel that the text is perfectly clear without the added
    > .


    Dropped. IIRC, people discussed on debian-mirror about highlighting
    this on the mirror pages, and it would probably be more effective there
    anyway.

    > > +++ b/manual/en/using-d-i/using-d-i.xml

    > This really needs a much more fundamental rewrite. In fact, an explanation
    > of the frontends should IMO not be in chapter 5, but much earlier in the
    > manual (a rewritten chapter 2 or 3).


    Let's keep that in mind.

    > I would make this something like:
    > […]
    > I would say:
    > […]


    Patch locally updated with your wording.

    Cheers,
    --
    Jérémy Bobbio .''`.
    lunar@debian.org : :Ⓐ : # apt-get install anarchism
    `. `'`
    `-

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  10. Re: [RFC] Some updates to the installation guide (2nd round)

    Hi,

    On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 01:28:55PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > On Monday 25 August 2008, Jrmy Bobbio wrote:
    > > More updates attached. More reviews welcome.

    >
    > Same deal.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > FJP
    >
    > +++ b/manual/en/install-methods/downloading-files.xml
    > +Using the apt-spy package on an already installed
    > +Debian system can also help you in finding the fastest mirror available.
    >
    > FJP: I'd tried apt-spy before and did again a few days ago and must say
    > I'm not impressed. Getting it to do anything at all is not trivial.
    > I had serious trouble finding that the "suite" option is required
    > (would have been much better if that was a parameter instead).
    > It segfaults if you give an option that needs a parameter without
    > the parameter. It's not clear whether you should give a country
    > name or code.
    > But most of all, if I try it for NL, *only* ftp.nl.d.o is tried,
    > which is rather useless.
    >
    > My conclusion is that it is *not* a tool for newbies. And especially
    > for areas where you'd need it most you'd probably need to provide the
    > list of mirrors to test manually.
    >
    > I personally would not mention it in the installation guide.


    I agree. I used to mention in debian-reference but my experience with
    apt-spy was mixed one. Besides, some mirror are auto
    ass/usr/bin/defoma-font reregister-allined. So such test
    may not provide consistent result.

    I also recomment not to mention it. It is just waiste of bandwidth
    anyway. Chose b common sense and location is the best way.


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