A suggestion - Debian

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Thread: A suggestion

  1. A suggestion

    I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of linux b4
    that)
    I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations. Most
    of the time I was only able to install the base system with no sound, poor
    resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
    Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the sound
    card, video card etc are detected automatically.
    And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.

    Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
    I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I am wrong).
    I suggest to make this change possible.

    If this is not a good suggestion please discard it. I love to use debian and
    I wanted it to be more that Ubuntu.

    Thank you for your time

    Ravi Krishnan Unni


  2. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
    > I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of linux b4
    > that)
    > I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations. Most
    > of the time I was only able to install the base system with no sound, poor
    > resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
    > Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the sound
    > card, video card etc are detected automatically.
    > And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.
    >
    > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
    > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I am wrong).
    > I suggest to make this change possible.
    >

    Ubuntu has already made the effort. So, if that is what you are looking
    for, then use Ubuntu. Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using
    a much greater variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.
    Many of those people have no need or desire for the features you
    describe.

    Alternatively, since Debian is an all-volunteer project you can feel
    free to volunteer to contribute the necessary changes.

    Regards,

    -Roberto

    --
    Roberto C. Sánchez
    http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
    http://www.connexer.com

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  3. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
    > I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of linux b4
    > that)
    > I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations. Most
    > of the time I was only able to install the base system with no sound, poor
    > resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
    > Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the sound
    > card, video card etc are detected automatically.
    > And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.
    >
    > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
    > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I am wrong).
    > I suggest to make this change possible.
    >
    > If this is not a good suggestion please discard it. I love to use debian and
    > I wanted it to be more that Ubuntu.


    Most machines I have installed Etch on detected everything perfectly
    too. Even more so for recent attempts with Lenny.

    Ubuntu does seem to try harder to make auto detection of x86 hardware
    work well, while Debian tries to make sure all architectures work well,
    although given the scope of all that hardware, it may not be quite as
    automatic.

    Of course Ubuntu also updates their releases way more often than Debian,
    and willl work easier on new hardware then Debian as a result, since you
    can't expect a 2 your old distribution to work perfectly on a 1 year old
    machine since the hardware hadn't even been designed when the software
    was released. Try installing Windowx XP on a new machine without having
    some driver disks to help it with all that new hardware.

    --
    Len Sorensen


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  4. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed March 26 2008 05:51:32 Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
    > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
    > > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
    > > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I am
    > > wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.

    >
    > Ubuntu has already made the effort. So, if that is what you are looking
    > for, then use Ubuntu. Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using
    > a much greater variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.
    > Many of those people have no need or desire for the features you
    > describe.


    The OP makes an important point. Debian is losing users and relevance.
    Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
    the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
    "old hardware crowd".

    Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
    yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
    architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.

    Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
    for hardware up to a year old! Sid is not suitable for most people,
    and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
    a mix of Lenny and Sid.

    Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
    up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.

    Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
    releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
    highway". I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.

    The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
    If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
    interest then so be it. Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
    than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.

    --Mike Bird

    [0] http://popcon.debian.org/

  5. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

    > Ubuntu does seem to try harder to make auto detection of x86 hardware
    > work well, while Debian tries to make sure all architectures work well,
    > although given the scope of all that hardware, it may not be quite as
    > automatic.


    To be honest: I see no real contradiction in perfect detection of x86
    hardware while trying best to detect other hardware as good as possible.
    So I would regard the argument: "We do not detect x86 as good as Ubuntu
    because we also detect other hardware." as completely void and outsiders
    will consider this as ignorance.

    > Of course Ubuntu also updates their releases way more often than Debian,
    > and willl work easier on new hardware then Debian as a result, since you
    > can't expect a 2 your old distribution to work perfectly on a 1 year old
    > machine since the hardware hadn't even been designed when the software
    > was released.


    This sounds more reasonable (but will trigger the next question which
    is ranking high on top of FAQ lists). ;-)

    Kind regards

    Andreas.

    --
    http://fam-tille.de


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  6. Re: A suggestion


    [Roberto C. Sánchez]
    > Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using a much greater
    > variety of hardware in a great many more configurations. Many of
    > those people have no need or desire for the features you describe.


    And quite a lot of us Debian users have a need an desire of the
    features described. As one of the Debian Developers that has spent
    the last 7 years improve all of them in Debian, I am happy to report
    that we are doing well, and while Ubuntu has been copying and
    releasing our improvement (as well as made their own) before Debian
    managed to, I am confident that we will merge back the good pieces
    from Ubuntu to make sure Debian continue to be a great distribution
    also for laptop and desktop users.

    > Alternatively, since Debian is an all-volunteer project you can feel
    > free to volunteer to contribute the necessary changes.


    We definitely need more hands to work on the tasks in Debian, but this
    reply feels to me like a "do it yourself or shut up", and I believe
    such reply is uncalled for.

    Automatic configuration, improved hardware detection, improved
    handling of laptops, faster installations, quicker boots, more
    hardware supported are all features being worked on, and Debian is
    better than ever on all these accounts. Lenny will be the best Debian
    release ever, as Etch was before it.

    Happy hacking,
    --
    Petter Reinholdtsen


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  7. Re: A suggestion

    Why would i have to put up with graphics when i run Debian on servers?
    I'd have to remove stuff, came Debian default with those. I prefer to
    add things when needed, rather than the opposite way. Debian is not
    only targetted at Desktop users. Ubuntu is, as far i can judge.
    Also, I don't feel uncomfortable having to tell what video controller I
    use locally, or what sound chip (actually, i can't remember that I
    explicitely had to set that up myself). I know better than any
    installer which video controller I intend to use, in case of multiple
    adapters. That this approach is not ideal for first time users, is
    evident. But OTOH, Debian users a commonly people who have gathered
    some experience with Linux already, often switching over from another
    distribution. Make Debian compete with other distributions targetting
    unexperienced users seems detrimentary to both, it seems. Let's say
    there is a user group for which Ubuntu simply fits better, and a group
    for which Debian is a better choice. Why make them more similar?


    On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:32:33 +0530
    Unni wrote:

    > I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of
    > linux b4 that)
    > I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations.
    > Most of the time I was only able to install the base system with no
    > sound, poor resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
    > Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the
    > sound card, video card etc are detected automatically.
    > And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.
    >
    > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers
    > etc. I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I
    > am wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.
    >
    > If this is not a good suggestion please discard it. I love to use
    > debian and I wanted it to be more that Ubuntu.
    >
    > Thank you for your time
    >
    > Ravi Krishnan Unni



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  8. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:20:00PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
    >
    > [Roberto C. Sánchez]
    >
    > > Alternatively, since Debian is an all-volunteer project you can feel
    > > free to volunteer to contribute the necessary changes.

    >
    > We definitely need more hands to work on the tasks in Debian, but this
    > reply feels to me like a "do it yourself or shut up", and I believe
    > such reply is uncalled for.
    >

    It was not meant that way at all. It was meant as a "Please don't try
    and be an armchair project manager. Rather, jump in and start doing
    things." Debian is, as far as I have seen, the best working example of
    a merticracy. People lead by example. They don't just yell out "I want
    this" and wait for other people to do it. They start doing and if it is
    a good idea and catches the interest of others, they also jump in and
    start doing.

    > Automatic configuration, improved hardware detection, improved
    > handling of laptops, faster installations, quicker boots, more
    > hardware supported are all features being worked on, and Debian is
    > better than ever on all these accounts. Lenny will be the best Debian
    > release ever, as Etch was before it.
    >

    I am in agreement. It is worth noting that things are progressing in
    this manner because of all of the work being done by people willing to
    volunteer.

    Regards,

    -Roberto

    --
    Roberto C. Sánchez
    http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
    http://www.connexer.com

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  9. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
    > On Wed March 26 2008 05:51:32 Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
    > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
    > > > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
    > > > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if I am
    > > > wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.

    > >
    > > Ubuntu has already made the effort. So, if that is what you are looking
    > > for, then use Ubuntu. Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using
    > > a much greater variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.
    > > Many of those people have no need or desire for the features you
    > > describe.

    >
    > The OP makes an important point. Debian is losing users and relevance.


    Is this why Debian is still the most often used source distro for making
    a derivative?

    > Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
    > the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
    > "old hardware crowd".
    >
    > Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
    > yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
    > architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.
    >

    While I certainly understand that popcon is an indicator of popularity,
    it is only that. I don't imagine that someone running Debian on an s390
    or on some other mainframe system will be inclined (since they are more
    likely to work in a corporate setting) to install popcon and let the
    system phone home. I'm not trying to say that such users should be
    considered more important than run of the mill home users, just that
    such users are certainly underrepresented when compared to home users.

    One of Debian's "core objectives" has been to support a wide variety of
    architectures. While the situation you describe (out of sync
    migrations) is annoying, it is worse than what we have now. If you feel
    that a particular architecture is problematic, then you should
    demonstrate how it failing to meet release objectives/goals/whatevers
    and move to have its support dropped or made unofficial. This is what
    happened with m68k leading up to the release of Etch, right?

    > Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
    > for hardware up to a year old! Sid is not suitable for most people,
    > and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
    > a mix of Lenny and Sid.
    >
    > Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
    > up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.
    >
    > Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
    > releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
    > highway". I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.
    >
    > The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
    > If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
    > interest then so be it. Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
    > than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.
    >

    Except that Debian's "decline" (if it did exist in the first place) has
    been stopped by the release of Etch, which was a huge jump forward. If
    Lenny is a big improvement, which it seems it will be, then things will
    continue to improve.

    Regards,

    -Roberto

    --
    Roberto C. Sánchez
    http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
    http://www.connexer.com

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  10. Re: A suggestion

    Hello,

    Le Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird a écrit :
    >
    > Debian is losing users and relevance.


    This does not match the results of the "popcon" survey. It could be
    that Debian would gain users slower than other distributions, but this
    claim would need to be backed by a serious study.

    Also, as Ubuntu seems to be the point of focus for this comparison, I
    would rather add their users rather than setting them in a separate
    count. I have prepared packages and fixed bug in Debian for Ubuntu
    users, and I guess I am not the only one on this list.


    > The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
    > If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
    > interest then so be it. Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
    > than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.


    I think this is a confrontational presentation of the problem because it
    supposes that there must be a loser. While I also think that trying to
    build the whole Universal Operating Sytem on non-universal hardware is a
    source of unnecessary and unrewarded stress and efforts, I feel that the
    way to ameliorate Debian is to make its internal processes more
    fault-tolerant, which is the exact contrary of dropping an arch.

    Have a nice day,

    --
    Charles


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  11. Re: A suggestion

    On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
    > The OP makes an important point. Debian is losing users and relevance.
    > Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
    > the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
    > "old hardware crowd".
    >
    > Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
    > yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
    > architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.
    >
    > Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
    > for hardware up to a year old! Sid is not suitable for most people,
    > and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
    > a mix of Lenny and Sid.
    >
    > Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
    > up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.
    >
    > Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
    > releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
    > highway". I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.
    >
    > The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
    > If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
    > interest then so be it. Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
    > than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.


    Part of what is making Debian relevant is that it does support so many
    architectures so consistently. Debian aims to be complete and as good
    as possible. Ubuntu aims to do most things for most people, and who
    cares about the rest. This makes Ubuntu a subset of Debian, and hence
    much easier to maintain. If Ubuntu serves you better, go ahead and use
    that. Many debian developers work on both Ubuntu and Debian as far as I
    can tell, and it seems to be improving lots of things for both systems.
    I would hate to see Debian drop stuff just because the majority of users
    find it inconvinient to be delayed at times by the minority. Often the
    delays caused by other architectures cause bugs to be found and fixed
    that would otherwise have gone unnoticed for much longer.

    It does seem that some architectures are being demoted to second class
    in future releases, so perhaps you will get your wish at some point.

    Remember that what you consider "my way or the highway" in Ubuntu is
    very much what would be happening if the x86 crown gets to ditch the
    other architectures in Debian because they slow things down.

    --
    Len Sorensen


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  12. Re: A suggestion

    On mer, 2008-03-26 at 08:35 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
    > Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
    > for hardware up to a year old! Sid is not suitable for most people,
    > and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
    > a mix of Lenny and Sid.


    Testing is not suitable for desktop use. It lags in bug and security
    fixes. It has often incompatible versions of pieces of software meant to
    work together. As you noticed, it has an outdated kernel.

    Except during freeze periods, you shouldn’t use testing on your desktop.
    If you want a bleeding edge desktop, you have sid.

    --
    .''`.
    : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
    `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
    `- our own. Resistance is futile.

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  13. Re: A suggestion

    Le Wednesday 26 March 2008 16:35:51 Mike Bird, vous avez écritÂ*:
    > The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
    > If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
    > interest then so be it. Â*Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
    > than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.


    It seems that you are mixing two issues.
    One is the popularity of the system, the other is its quality and relevance.

    So, yes debian "loses" users in the way that they go to Ubuntu, and then claim
    that it fits better than Debian.

    Most of them are newbies that like the "plug and play" ubuntu way of designing
    the system. Fine, I'm even agruing in favour of Ubuntu for my friends that
    don't know much about Linux.

    But I didn't choose to use Debian because it was more easy to install or
    because it had the latest 3D desktop fancy effects ready to use. At the time
    I first tried Debian, the installer would ask you to choose your network card
    kernel module, and for a true beginer, this was really not easy ;-)

    I came to Debian because it is a general system, and because the community is
    able to choose for quality and technical things instead of meeting a
    deadline, or being the most appealing.

    I'm sorry to say it like that, but I really don't care that Debian be the most
    used distribution on the universe. Really.
    Instead, I rather prefer a general system, even with old piece of software,
    but for which we all focus on quality, or software licences etc..

    For instance, with all its releases, and backports in every directions, I
    don't really see how Ubuntu can be reliable in security. Being the maintainer
    of some webapps, for which security issues hapen often, I am sure that they
    didn't fixed each of them, simply because they have a different version in
    each release, and no security backports for each.

    Now, about the social aspects, I also believe that Ubuntu plays a completly
    complementary role with Debian. In particular, the career of a linux user
    would be to start with Ubuntu. Easy to install, easy to use.
    Then, if the user wants to get to know more the system, at some point it will
    have to get to know Debian, since it's the backbone of Ubuntu.

    So, instead of "loosing" users, Debian simply attract less beginers, but will
    likely get experimented users that want to contribute and get to know the
    system. If, for instance, you look on the overall quality of users
    documentation and comments in Ubuntu forums, I'm often very thankfull we
    don't have such.

    Then, it's very important for this to work well that we don't fork with
    Ubuntu. In particular, packaging or system standards should remain common, or
    at least very similar. Also, Ubuntu wouldn't have so many package if they
    couldn't backports ours, so this is also important for them.


    Romain
    --
    If you are the big tree,
    We are the small axe,
    Ready to cut you down,
    Sharpen to cut you down...

  14. Re: A suggestion

    2008/3/27, Josselin Mouette :
    >
    > On mer, 2008-03-26 at 08:35 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
    > > Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
    > > for hardware up to a year old! Sid is not suitable for most people,
    > > and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
    > > a mix of Lenny and Sid.

    >
    >
    > Testing is not suitable for desktop use. It lags in bug and security
    > fixes. It has often incompatible versions of pieces of software meant to
    > work together. As you noticed, it has an outdated kernel.




    I have used testing for four years in my desktop without reinstall. Testing
    may be suitable for desktop.
    It has, only a few times, litle bugs, but a desktop is not a critical
    system.
    I remember an ubuntu update that remove the xorg configuration, so most of
    its users had to reinstall (they dont know how to fix it).
    Testing es perfectly a valid option for desktop.


    Except during freeze periods, you shouldn't use testing on your desktop.


    The freeze periods are the periods when the bugs are in the system more
    time, cause updates are less frequently.


    If you want a bleeding edge desktop, you have sid.


    Sid has much more problems and fixes than testing.

    --
    > .''`.
    > : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
    > `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
    > `- our own. Resistance is futile.
    >
    >



  15. Re: A suggestion

    On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 09:02:49PM +0530, Unni wrote:
    > Thank you for all those replies.. I am really excited to read those.
    >
    > The latest problem I am experiencing is that I have a recently
    > purchased Dell Inspiron 1420 laptop and I tried installing debian etch
    > in it. Most of the drivers were not detected like display, audio,
    > modem etc. I tried posting my problem in LQ but didnt get a result to
    > solve my problem. But I saw Dell recomending ubuntu for the same
    > machine. I tried it and with satisfacoty result. But, I think ubuntu
    > doesnt provide necessary packages for development in its bacis CD.
    > Even I cant use Xwindows programming in it. I have the full CD set of
    > Etch. And I wanted it to work well.


    Well Etch was released about a year ago, with a kernel probably 6 months
    older than that. A recent Dell (who is probably the company most eager
    to use new components in their machines) is just not likely to be
    supported. Now if you were to grab the weekly build of Lenny (debian
    testing) you would likely have a much easier time.

    When the Etch+1/2 release happens (which is certainly a nifty new idea
    for Debian) in maybe 6 months or whatever the plan is, with a newer
    kernel, then all of a sudden there is a chance Etch would install on
    your new Dell.

    > This is what inspired me to give that suggestion. So I cannot
    > contribute for the development. I am trying to learn more. If I can do
    > something new, I will surely contribute.


    --
    Len Sorensen


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  16. Re: A suggestion

    Thank you for all those replies.. I am really excited to read those.

    The latest problem I am experiencing is that I have a recently
    purchased Dell Inspiron 1420 laptop and I tried installing debian etch
    in it. Most of the drivers were not detected like display, audio,
    modem etc. I tried posting my problem in LQ but didnt get a result to
    solve my problem. But I saw Dell recomending ubuntu for the same
    machine. I tried it and with satisfacoty result. But, I think ubuntu
    doesnt provide necessary packages for development in its bacis CD.
    Even I cant use Xwindows programming in it. I have the full CD set of
    Etch. And I wanted it to work well.

    This is what inspired me to give that suggestion. So I cannot
    contribute for the development. I am trying to learn more. If I can do
    something new, I will surely contribute.

    Thank you once again

    Regards

    Ravi Krishnan Unni

    On 3/27/08, Andreas Tille wrote:
    > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    >
    > > Ubuntu does seem to try harder to make auto detection of x86 hardware
    > > work well, while Debian tries to make sure all architectures work well,
    > > although given the scope of all that hardware, it may not be quite as
    > > automatic.

    >
    > To be honest: I see no real contradiction in perfect detection of x86
    > hardware while trying best to detect other hardware as good as possible.
    > So I would regard the argument: "We do not detect x86 as good as Ubuntu
    > because we also detect other hardware." as completely void and outsiders
    > will consider this as ignorance.
    >
    > > Of course Ubuntu also updates their releases way more often than Debian,
    > > and willl work easier on new hardware then Debian as a result, since you
    > > can't expect a 2 your old distribution to work perfectly on a 1 year old
    > > machine since the hardware hadn't even been designed when the software
    > > was released.

    >
    > This sounds more reasonable (but will trigger the next question which
    > is ranking high on top of FAQ lists). ;-)
    >
    > Kind regards
    >
    > Andreas.
    >
    > --
    > http://fam-tille.de
    >



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  17. Re: A suggestion

    hi there,

    On Friday 28 March 2008 04:32:49 pm Unni wrote:
    > The latest problem I am experiencing is that I have a recently
    > purchased Dell Inspiron 1420 laptop and I tried installing debian etch
    > in it. Most of the drivers were not detected like display, audio,
    > modem etc. I tried posting my problem in LQ but didnt get a result to
    > solve my problem. But I saw Dell recomending ubuntu for the same
    > machine. I tried it and with satisfacoty result. But, I think ubuntu
    > doesnt provide necessary packages for development in its bacis CD.
    > Even I cant use Xwindows programming in it. I have the full CD set of
    > Etch. And I wanted it to work well.


    you may also want to try the current testing distribution of debian, which is
    generally quite stable and features much newer software and better hardware
    support.

    also, for questions like this, the best place to ask is not LQ nor this
    mailing list, but instead debian-user@lists.debian.org (or in the irc channel
    #debian-user on oftc)


    sean

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  18. Re: A suggestion

    Thank you for the reply.
    I will try Lenny on Dell. surely.

    And also thank you for the mail ID - debian-user@lists.debian.org
    I was totally unaware of it.

    Regards

    Ravi Krishnan Unni

    On 3/29/08, sean finney wrote:
    > hi there,
    >
    > On Friday 28 March 2008 04:32:49 pm Unni wrote:
    > > The latest problem I am experiencing is that I have a recently
    > > purchased Dell Inspiron 1420 laptop and I tried installing debian etch
    > > in it. Most of the drivers were not detected like display, audio,
    > > modem etc. I tried posting my problem in LQ but didnt get a result to
    > > solve my problem. But I saw Dell recomending ubuntu for the same
    > > machine. I tried it and with satisfacoty result. But, I think ubuntu
    > > doesnt provide necessary packages for development in its bacis CD.
    > > Even I cant use Xwindows programming in it. I have the full CD set of
    > > Etch. And I wanted it to work well.

    >
    > you may also want to try the current testing distribution of debian, which
    > is
    > generally quite stable and features much newer software and better hardware
    > support.
    >
    > also, for questions like this, the best place to ask is not LQ nor this
    > mailing list, but instead debian-user@lists.debian.org (or in the irc
    > channel
    > #debian-user on oftc)
    >
    >
    > sean
    >



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  19. Re: A suggestion

    On Fri 28 Mar 08 13:27, Fernando Cerezal wrote:
    >I have used testing for four years in my desktop without reinstall. Testing may
    >be suitable for desktop.
    >It has, only a few times, litle bugs, but a desktop is not a critical system.
    >I remember an ubuntu update that remove the xorg configuration, so most of its
    >users had to reinstall (they dont know how to fix it).
    >Testing es perfectly a valid option for desktop.


    I think that the testing or above releases may be suitable for the
    desktop of a EXPERT linux user. I need a stable release because my
    desktop must simply to work; it is not a so critical system like a
    server but this is critical to my business go on.

    --
    |
    | Joel Franco Guzmán .''`.
    | self-powered by : :' :
    | Debian Linux `. `'
    | at BraSil `-


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  20. Re: A suggestion

    On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 00:38:36 -0300
    Joel Franco wrote:

    > I think that the testing or above releases may be suitable for the
    > desktop of a EXPERT linux user. I need a stable release because my
    > desktop must simply to work; it is not a so critical system like a
    > server but this is critical to my business go on.


    >From my experience, testing is perfectly suitable for a desktop/development

    system. I have used it exclusively on both my desktop and my laptop for a
    couple of years now, and I have experienced only a couple of minor issues
    so far.

    The main difference between a desktop and a server is that usually on a
    server you can't afford any downtime, while on a desktop system you can
    screw up and reinstall every once in a while if needed...

    --
    KiyuKo
    Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected.

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