kmail - phrases - bugs? - Debian

This is a discussion on kmail - phrases - bugs? - Debian ; Hello, thank you all for answers to my previous issues. Now I have potential problem, which I would like to submit to bugs.kde.org. However, I want to make sure that it is not my problem before submiting. Sorry for description ...

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Thread: kmail - phrases - bugs?

  1. kmail - phrases - bugs?

    Hello,
    thank you all for answers to my previous issues. Now I have potential problem,
    which I would like to submit to bugs.kde.org. However, I want to make sure
    that it is not my problem before submiting.
    Sorry for description of command/menu entries - I use polish version and all
    are rough english translation.
    Ok, let's start - I use KMail from KDE 3.5.1 in Debian SID. I want to replyto
    users' emails with customized reply strings, depending on user language.
    So I have in Settings -> KMail configuration -> Editor -> Phrases two
    languages:
    - american english (en_US)
    - polish (pl)

    In first of them I have in "reply to sender" field:
    On %D, you wrote:
    In second:
    Dnia %D, napisałe¶:

    But when I click on reply to any message, I get:
    Dnia Wednesday 15 February 2006 12:06, napisałe¶:
    It is the same for every message :\
    As you can see, there are two potential problems:
    1. Date is always in english, where it should be in configured locales in
    phrases.
    2. The rest of the line is always in polish, whereas I would like to use
    english version for english e-mails.

    The question is - do I do anything wrong? Or should I report the bug
    instantly?

    I use Linux kernel 2.6.13 or so, my locales are set to:
    $ locale
    LANG=pl_PL
    LC_ALL=
    LC_MESSAGES=C
    [other=pl_PL]

    Best regards,
    Robert

    --------------------
    W polskim Internecie s± setki milionów stron. My przekazujemy Tobie tylko najlepsze z nich!
    http://katalog.panoramainternetu.pl/

  2. Re: kmail - phrases - bugs?

    Thursday, 16 February 2006 02:48, Robert Gomułka wrote:
    > As you can see, there are two potential problems:
    > 1. Date is always in english, where it should be in configured
    > locales in phrases.


    Since this is a KDE application, it probably takes the date format from
    the KDE Control Centre rather than from your command-line locale
    configuration (arguably, the Control Centre localisation configuration
    should just be a frontend to locale, but that's a whole different
    discussion).

    (You seem to suggest your KDE is set to Polish, though, so I am a bit
    surprised that the day and month names appear to be in English.)

    > 2. The rest of the line is always in polish, whereas I would like to
    > use english version for english e-mails.


    As I understand it, that's because KMail can only be configured to
    handle one set of phrases at a time, so whichever language you have
    selected for editing in the phrases dialogue when you apply the
    settings will be the one chosen for all messages. Ideally, the phrase
    set should be linked to the choice of dictionary in the composing
    window, and this not being the case is a problem for us multilinguals.

    > The question is - do I do anything wrong? Or should I report the bug
    > instantly?


    I would classify this as a wishlist bug and clarify the wishes as:

    1) Selecting dictionaries in the composer window should affect the set
    of phrases used.

    2) The %D variable (and other localisation-affected variables) should be
    expanded according to the appropriate format for the language in
    whose phrases it appears, regardless of the selected KDE or
    command-line locale.

    Now, there are one or two problems with these suggestions.

    Firstly, what happens when someone starts editing a message with one
    dictionary selected and then changes the dictionary? This should be
    possible to overcome using regular expressions.

    Secondly, language alone is not always sufficient to determine the
    appropriate date format. I am not sure what to suggest to overcome this
    obstacle. Perhaps someone with more experience in localisation issues
    could weigh in on the matter?

    --
    Alex Nordstrom
    http://lx.n3.net/
    Please do not CC me in followups; I am subscribed to debian-kde.

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  3. Re: kmail - phrases - bugs?

    On Thursday 16 February 2006 07:57, Alex Nordstrom wrote:
    > Thursday, 16 February 2006 02:48, Robert Gomułka wrote:
    > > As you can see, there are two potential problems:
    > > 1. Date is always in english, where it should be in configured
    > > locales in phrases.

    >
    > Since this is a KDE application, it probably takes the date format from
    > the KDE Control Centre rather than from your command-line locale
    > configuration (arguably, the Control Centre localisation configuration
    > should just be a frontend to locale, but that's a whole different
    > discussion).


    KDE-apps can be started with different localizations by using the
    KDE_LANG variable (works for interface language in any case) not the LC_*
    ones, took me a while to figure that one out to.
    --
    Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)

    1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB)
    2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double
    format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam)

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  4. Re: kmail - phrases - bugs?

    Dnia Thursday 16 February 2006 07:57, Alex Nordstrom napisał:
    [cut]
    First, thank you for your answer.
    >
    > I would classify this as a wishlist bug and clarify the wishes as:
    >
    > 1) Selecting dictionaries in the composer window should affect the set
    > of phrases used.
    >


    Well, actually I have thought of something simplier, as choosing language
    based on some headers in original message, for example. My bet was
    Content-type-encoding, but now I can see it is not enough. Any language can
    have many encodings and many languages can have common encoding :\
    So the point is how can I customize my phrases in answer basing on original
    message. Using dictionary for that purpose ... Well ... I don't use
    dictionary in fact. And even if I do, I will have to chose any manually,
    which does not look good to me.

    > 2) The %D variable (and other localisation-affected variables) should be
    > expanded according to the appropriate format for the language in
    > whose phrases it appears, regardless of the selected KDE or
    > command-line locale.
    >


    For that one I would say it is definitely a bug, because my whole system is
    set to Polish locales (except some minot LC_*). Moreover, in KDE control
    center (country/region and language) it is displayed as it should be (in
    Polish).

    > Now, there are one or two problems with these suggestions.
    >
    > Firstly, what happens when someone starts editing a message with one
    > dictionary selected and then changes the dictionary? This should be
    > possible to overcome using regular expressions.
    >
    > Secondly, language alone is not always sufficient to determine the
    > appropriate date format. I am not sure what to suggest to overcome this
    > obstacle. Perhaps someone with more experience in localisation issues
    > could weigh in on the matter?


    Please look above.

    Best regards,
    Robert

    --------------------
    W polskim Internecie s± setki milionów stron. My przekazujemy Tobie tylko najlepsze z nich!
    http://katalog.panoramainternetu.pl/

  5. Re: kmail - phrases - bugs?

    Friday, 17 February 2006 01:03, Robert Gomułka wrote:
    > Dnia Thursday 16 February 2006 07:57, Alex Nordstrom napisał:
    > > 1) Selecting dictionaries in the composer window should affect the
    > > set of phrases used.

    >
    > Well, actually I have thought of something simplier, as choosing
    > language based on some headers in original message, for example. My
    > bet was Content-type-encoding, but now I can see it is not enough.
    > Any language can have many encodings and many languages can have
    > common encoding :\ So the point is how can I customize my phrases in
    > answer basing on original message. Using dictionary for that purpose
    > ... Well ... I don't use dictionary in fact. And even if I do, I will
    > have to chose any manually, which does not look good to me.


    As you have found, language is neither explicitly nor implicitly encoded
    in the headers. Automatically determining the language in which a given
    paragraph of text is written should be relatively trivial, but requires
    having dictionaries of candidate languages available to the algorithm.

    I hadn't thought of it, but while we're on the topic of making wishes,
    for those of us who do use a dictionary, having it automatically
    selected would of course be nice too (and much more desirable than the
    current behaviour of "your spelling is so bad I am just going to give
    up on trying to correct you").

    --
    Alex Nordstrom
    http://lx.n3.net/
    Please do not CC me in followups; I am subscribed to debian-kde.

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