konqueror heavy swapping - Debian

This is a discussion on konqueror heavy swapping - Debian ; Sometimes, when several tens tabs are open on the desktop, konqueror (3.4) almost freeze the machine due to heavy swapping lasting about 10 minutes, as i can infer from the led monitoring the hard disk activity By the 'top' command, ...

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  1. konqueror heavy swapping

    Sometimes, when several tens tabs are open on the desktop, konqueror
    (3.4) almost freeze the machine due to heavy swapping lasting about 10
    minutes, as i can infer from the led monitoring the hard disk activity
    By the 'top' command, one can read an average load about 20-30, while
    cpu is not intesively used.

    It is unknown to me the reason of that swapping, since there is a lot
    of swap space avalailabe on disk.

    Any help?
    How to monitor konqueror activity more closely to figure out what is
    happening there and possibly to tell which windows are 'guilty'?

    Thank you

    --
    pol


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  2. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    On Monday 23 January 2006 10:52 am, Pol wrote:
    > Sometimes, when several tens tabs are open on the desktop, konqueror
    > (3.4) almost freeze the machine due to heavy swapping lasting about 10
    > minutes, as i can infer from the led monitoring the hard disk activity
    > By the 'top' command, one can read an average load about 20-30, while
    > cpu is not intesively used.
    >
    > It is unknown to me the reason of that swapping, since there is a lot
    > of swap space avalailabe on disk.
    >
    > Any help?
    > How to monitor konqueror activity more closely to figure out what is
    > happening there and possibly to tell which windows are 'guilty'?


    I'm just adding things I've observed in hopes that someone will recognize the
    problem(s) and point to solutions. (I suspect the recommendation will be
    more RAM--that means a new computer as my MB is full.)

    I've had similar experiences (but I run Mandriva), but not, afaicr, for 10
    minutes--more like 30 to 120 seconds. I'm not 100% sure it's konqueror, but
    that's a reasonable supposition, as my most common mix of apps is several
    konqueror windows (with 5 to 20 tabs), a kmail window, several nedit windows
    (with a few tabs), and konsole. (800 MHz. Pentium (III?), 512 MB RAM, 2 MB
    swap (on a dedicated hard drive)

    I run top continuously in one root "konsole", and "vmstat 2" in another.

    I think I have two (or more) different occurrences.

    Recently, I noticed a few occasions where the load average gets very high (on
    one occasion it hit 800, and that was my longest incidence of swapping (I
    call it "sewing machine behavior"). Some other times I've seen it around 30
    (normally, all three of my load averages are below 1). During those times,
    the wait time of the processor hits 75-95%.

    Prior to updating to Mandriva 2006, I had 1 GB of swap, and noticed that when
    half the swap was in use (which corresponds to swap in use = RAM), the
    machine slowed down (swapping increased). When I updated to Mandriva 2006, i
    doubled the size of the swap (and added a dedicated hard drive to minimize
    wear and tear on my big drive) in an effort to determine whether the slowdown
    occurred at swap in use = RAM or at swap in use = 1/2 available swap. I
    haven't quite decided yet--but I'm tending toward swap in use = 1/2 available
    swap.

    Although I strongly hope that kde gradually develops a smaller memory
    footprint, I suspect there is something about the kernel's use of swap that
    causes the behavior I see.

    Randy Kramer

    PS: I hate the churn that occurs when I simply close an application--doesn't
    the kernel maintain an in-memory list of RAM and swap in use that it can
    simply (with no disk access) mark as unused?

    And, is this somehow related to the unused RAM is wasted philosophy?



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  3. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    On Monday 23 January 2006 18:19, Randy Kramer wrote:
    > On Monday 23 January 2006 10:52 am, Pol wrote:
    > > Sometimes, when several tens tabs are open on the desktop, konqueror
    > > (3.4) almost freeze the machine due to heavy swapping lasting about 10
    > > minutes, as i can infer from the led monitoring the hard disk activity
    > > By the 'top' command, one can read an average load about 20-30, while
    > > cpu is not intesively used.
    > >
    > > It is unknown to me the reason of that swapping, since there is a lot
    > > of swap space avalailabe on disk.
    > >
    > > Any help?
    > > How to monitor konqueror activity more closely to figure out what is
    > > happening there and possibly to tell which windows are 'guilty'?

    >
    > I'm just adding things I've observed in hopes that someone will recognize
    > the problem(s) and point to solutions. (I suspect the recommendation will
    > be more RAM--that means a new computer as my MB is full.)
    >
    > I've had similar experiences (but I run Mandriva), but not, afaicr, for 10
    > minutes--more like 30 to 120 seconds. I'm not 100% sure it's konqueror,
    > but that's a reasonable supposition, as my most common mix of apps is
    > several konqueror windows (with 5 to 20 tabs), a kmail window, several
    > nedit windows (with a few tabs), and konsole. (800 MHz. Pentium (III?),
    > 512 MB RAM, 2 MB swap (on a dedicated hard drive)


    I use a similar setup without any problems (1.1 GHz Pentium III, just 256 MB
    RAM, just 512 MB swap) comparable mix of applications and it hardly ever
    swaps at all.

    It could be some memory leak in a different application or maybe a Kicker
    applet or kded module.

    For example I once had an X server crash due to a memory leak bug in the
    KMLDonkey applet.

    What process uses most memory according to top?

    Cheers,
    Kevin

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  4. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    On Monday 23 January 2006 02:38 pm, Kevin Krammer wrote:
    > What process uses most memory according to top?


    Thanks for the response!

    At the moment, the top three memory users are:

    * (an instance of) konqueror at 13.8%
    * X at 11.8%
    * (another instance of) konqueror at 10.7%

    I suspect that's fairly typical, but at the moment I'm only using about 250 MB
    of swap (an instance of konqueror crashed about an hour ago--I supsect it was
    using a lot of memory and/or swap) and performance is good--I'll pay
    attention when things get worse and see how things look when I'm having
    problems.

    Randy Kramer

    PS: I feel like I'm hijacking this thread--I hope Pol (and others) feel free
    to participate.

    PPS: Guess I'll have a look at man top--I wonder if there is a way to have top
    display the processes in order of memory use (instead of CPU use)?--Nope,
    don't see anything, and top | sort doesn't seem to work.


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  5. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    Am Montag, 23. Januar 2006 21:46 schrieb Randy Kramer:
    > PPS: Guess I'll have a look at man top--I wonder if there is a way to have
    > top display the processes in order of memory use (instead of CPU
    > use)?--Nope, don't see anything, and top | sort doesn't seem to work.


    $ top

    then hit
    'h' for more help
    'm' for sort memory consumption with
    'f' you should see a dialog for adding/deleting fields, one of them is
    'p' = Swapped size (kb)

    Good luck,
    Martin

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  6. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    On Monday 23 January 2006 04:38 pm, HeWe wrote:
    > $ top
    >
    > then hit
    > 'h' for more help
    > 'm' for sort memory consumption with
    > 'f' you should see a dialog for adding/deleting fields, one of them is
    > 'p' = Swapped size (kb)


    Thanks! (Guess I didn't look very closely at man top--I can see where the
    above is covered now, looking back at it.)

    regards,
    Randy Kramer


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  7. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    2006/1/23, Randy Kramer :
    > Although I strongly hope that kde gradually develops a smaller memory
    > footprint, I suspect there is something about the kernel's use of swap that
    > causes the behavior I see.


    That is possible.

    Recently, the family complains about my computers performance. We use
    this pc with me (kde) and 1-2 others running windowmaker and kmail +
    maybe one or 2 light applications. Whenever I am logged in, their
    session becomes dog slow to load (probably swapped out), and doing
    things like opening a new konqueror window takes ages.

    My kernel version: 2.6.15.1 (vanilla)
    I have 256 MB of Ram. Should be enough for anyones desktop.


    --
    Frank Van Damme

  8. Re: konqueror heavy swapping

    Frank Van Damme wrote:
    [...]

    > Recently, the family complains about my computers performance. We use
    > this pc with me (kde) and 1-2 others running windowmaker and kmail +
    > maybe one or 2 light applications. Whenever I am logged in, their
    > session becomes dog slow to load (probably swapped out), and doing
    > things like opening a new konqueror window takes ages.
    >
    > My kernel version: 2.6.15.1 (vanilla)
    > I have 256 MB of Ram. Should be enough for anyones desktop.


    Did you ever try to adjust the "swappiness" of your system? I think it
    is set quite high by default on Debian. This means that the kernel will
    swap out sleeping processes quite aggressively as soon as there is the
    slightest possibility that the RAM might be needed at some point in the
    future. This is probably a good idea on a server. However, on desktop
    machines, when latency in user interactions is a major annoyance, it is
    usually better to set the swappiness to a low value. I use a swappiness
    of 10 (the scale is 0-100) and I am quite happy with the resulting
    behavior. You can find out your swappiness with
    $ cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
    and change it with
    # echo 10 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
    If a lower swappiness improves your issues with konqueror you can make
    the setting persistent over reboots by adding the line
    vm.swappiness = 10
    to your /etc/sysctl.conf.

    Regards,
    Florian


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  9. Re: konqueror heavy swapping +kicker and log-in errors

    Kevin Krammer wrote:
    > What process uses most memory according to top?
    >


    This is the normal condition, cut from the 'top' command
    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ SWAP COMMAND
    5997 pol 15 0 91408 31m 11m S 0.0 4.2 0:53.22 57m konqueror
    6032 pol 15 0 76712 24m 11m S 4.3 3.3 6:20.76 50m konqueror
    6043 pol 15 0 93880 41m 14m S 0.0 5.5 1:11.19 50m konqueror

    I will try to get the the snapshop as freezing will occur
    I am using a laptop centrino 1.5GHz, with 756MB RAM and 1G swap space
    (made of 0.5G swap partition and 0.5G swap file)

    The operating system is debian/testing

    I am taking this opprtunity to ask help for another kde-related problem:
    The kicker freezes sometimes, at the opening of the user session, so
    that it has to be restarted by the command

    dcop kicker kicker restart

    I cannot figure out the reason for the kicker freezing out, since
    nothing is tracked in the .xsession-errors log file regarding kicker.
    How to force the kicker to run more verbosely?


    Anyway, many errors are recorded in the.xsession-errors file:

    kcminit: ERROR: Access denied to driver shared memory
    libhal.c 911 : Error sending msg: No property info.category on device
    with id /org/freedes
    ktop/Hal/devices/ide_0_0
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header read failed, errno=104
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header has invalid size (-1)
    kio (KLauncher): ERROR: SlavePool: No communication with slave.
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header read failed, errno=104
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header has invalid size (-1)
    ....
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header read failed, errno=104
    kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Header has invalid size (-1)
    kio (KLauncher): ERROR: SlavePool: No communication with slave.
    .....
    QPainter::begin: Painter is already active.
    You must end() the painter before a second begin()
    QPainter::begin: Painter is already active.
    You must end() the painter before a second begin()


    Any help?

    thank you

    --pol


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  10. Re: konqueror heavy swapping +kicker and log-in errors

    First of all, I want to thank everyone who has contributed (and who might yet
    contribute) to this thread--I think I'm learning quite a bit, but I do have
    more comments/questions:

    On Wednesday 25 January 2006 06:04 am, Pol wrote:
    > Kevin Krammer wrote:
    > > What process uses most memory according to top?

    >
    > This is the normal condition, cut from the 'top' command
    > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ SWAP COMMAND
    > 5997 pol 15 0 91408 31m 11m S 0.0 4.2 0:53.22 57m konqueror
    > 6032 pol 15 0 76712 24m 11m S 4.3 3.3 6:20.76 50m konqueror
    > 6043 pol 15 0 93880 41m 14m S 0.0 5.5 1:11.19 50m konqueror


    Posting a recent snapshot of the top of my top:

    PID USER PR NI VIRT SHR RES S %CPU %MEM TIME+ SWAP COMMAND
    3242 root 15 0 202m 1972 100m S 2.3 20.0 4464:08 102m X
    10217 rhk 15 0 122m 13m 91m S 2.0 18.1 293:15.56 31m konqueror
    21648 rhk 15 0 79040 17m 56m S 0.0 11.2 99:33.39 20m konqueror
    9757 rhk 15 0 74300 2528 9804 S 0.3 1.9 54:44.96 62m artsd
    9735 rhk 15 0 67564 5716 9700 S 0.0 1.9 20:17.15 56m kded
    31707 rhk 16 0 64168 20m 39m S 0.0 7.8 14:15.36 23m kmail
    1173 rhk 16 0 56380 17m 39m S 0.0 7.9 46:52.97 15m konqueror
    31911 rhk 15 0 51396 9516 10m S 0.0 2.2 2:49.77 39m kget
    19596 rhk 15 0 50568 10m 35m S 0.0 7.0 1:12.40 14m
    nspluginviewer

    Hmm, the columns don't look very good as I write this (without a fixed-width
    font)--hope they look better for others.

    This is a snapshot after I killed java and mysql--I'm not entirely sure why
    either was running, but java had a virtual image of something like 207m
    (which I presume is MB) and mysql was at 117m. (I'm sure I installed both,
    but a lot of java things don't work anyway in konqueror, so I don't expect
    things to get any worse without it, and I did install mysql with the
    intention of experimenting with some small databases just to learn it--but it
    had a virtual image of 117 MB--I'll try to do without it. (Maybe slocate or
    kat (which I've disabled) use mysql?)

    Anyway, before I killed java and mysql, the virtual image for X was at
    157m--now I see that it's grown to 202m--wtf?

    Also, I guess I don't really understand what the virtual image is--I thought
    it would be the total amount of memory used, whether currently in RAM or
    swapped out, and thus, it would always be bigger than the RES (resident)
    size, but I see that's not true, e.g., one of the konqueror's has 39m RES and
    56380 VIRT. (And, I don't know how SHR fits into this.)

    Anyway:
    * I'll appreciate any comments re the above
    * I'll keep running top sorted by VIRT, and seriously consider killing apps
    when they get big. (For example, I know which konqueror has the 122m VIRT
    (because I start it from the konsole and then keep a record of the PID) and
    will start closing tabs (after doing what I planned to do with those pages)
    in it until I can close it altogether and start a new instance.)

    It is interesting that apparently some web pages use much more memory than
    others, and I suspect it's not based solely on "raw" content--anyway, I want
    to start trying to notice which pages are real hogs, then either avoid
    opening them, or opening them in a "throwaway" instance of konqueror.

    Thanks again!
    Randy Kramer

    PS: Per another post, I've also reduced my swappiness from 60 (apparently the
    default on Mandriva2006) to 10.


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