Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss - Debian

This is a discussion on Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss - Debian ; Hi, I just updated to KDE 3.5 / KMail 1.9.1. When selecting 'save attachments' on a mail with 2 or more attachments, a directory selector/requester pop's up. It asks me for a directory to save the files into. BUT: * ...

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Thread: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

  1. Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    Hi,

    I just updated to KDE 3.5 / KMail 1.9.1. When selecting 'save attachments' on
    a mail with 2 or more attachments, a directory selector/requester pop's up.
    It asks me for a directory to save the files into. BUT:

    * I can't access my bookmarked directories. This makes the process of
    selecting a directory much slower.

    * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off from:
    - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new directory
    might be based on the contents).
    - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).

    Since I use this feature up to several times a day, this loss of productivity
    really annoys me.

    Is there a switch to enforce getting a file selector?
    If not: Would this be more a wishlist item or a minor/normal bug?
    Are there any other people who dislike the new 'feature'?

    Regards, Tim


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  2. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    On Monday 23 January 2006 04:36, Tim Ruehsen wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I just updated to KDE 3.5 / KMail 1.9.1. When selecting 'save
    > attachments' on a mail with 2 or more attachments, a directory
    > selector/requester pop's up. It asks me for a directory to save the files
    > into. BUT:
    >
    > * I can't access my bookmarked directories. This makes the process of
    > selecting a directory much slower.
    >

    This is because the widget used doesn't support bookmarks. You could file a
    wish list bug against the directory chooser widget, or you could add your
    bookmark to the left hand pane by right clicking and selecting "Add
    Entry..."

    > * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off from:
    > - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new
    > directory might be based on the contents).
    > - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).
    >

    Since the widget is designed to choose a directory, it was designed to only
    show you directories. Again, you could file a wish list bug against the
    widget, but I'd suspect it would be tagged won't fix. But I'm not the one
    who makes that decision, so I could be wrong.

    Regarding renaming or removing single files, how would you know which file
    you're renaming or removing? I mean, which of the files that you're
    saving? That's the reason the directory chooser widget was chosen: since
    there is more than one file to be saved, it can't let you rename them. If
    you want to rename as you save, select them one at a time (by right
    clicking on the attachment) and choose save as. This will allow you to use
    your favorites folders, as well as see files, rename files, etc. But I
    guess you already know that, based upon your "2 or more attachments"
    observation.

    > Since I use this feature up to several times a day, this loss of
    > productivity really annoys me.
    >
    > Is there a switch to enforce getting a file selector?
    > If not: Would this be more a wishlist item or a minor/normal bug?
    > Are there any other people who dislike the new 'feature'?
    >
    > Regards, Tim


    Out of curiosity, what did it work like before?

    Hope this helps some,
    Justin Guerin


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  3. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    Am Montag, 23. Januar 2006 17:45 schrieb Justin Guerin:

    > > * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off from:
    > > - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new
    > > directory might be based on the contents).
    > > - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).
    > >

    [ ... ]
    > Regarding renaming or removing single files, how would you know which file
    > you're renaming or removing? I mean, which of the files that you're
    > saving?

    I was not talking about the files to save but about the files that are already
    in the directory which I want to save the new files into. E.g. I have
    attachments 1.vox 2.vox 3.vox and want to save it into directory X. Before
    KDE 3.5/Kmail 1.9.1 I got this 'file selector' widget, where I could see the
    already existing files. In this example, let's say there is already an 2.vox.
    I could directly (within the widget), rename it to 2.vox.old or decide to let
    it be overwritten by the new 2.vox (or whatever).

    > Out of curiosity, what did it work like before?

    See above.

    Thanks for your answer, Justin.

    Regards, Tim


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  4. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    Justin Guerin wrote:

    > On Monday 23 January 2006 04:36, Tim Ruehsen wrote:
    >
    >> * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off from:
    >> - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new
    >> directory might be based on the contents).
    >> - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).
    >>

    > Since the widget is designed to choose a directory, it was designed to
    > only
    > show you directories. Again, you could file a wish list bug against the
    > widget, but I'd suspect it would be tagged won't fix. But I'm not the one
    > who makes that decision, so I could be wrong.


    OK, so you're not the person who presumably chose to use this widget in the
    first place, but can you offer any insight into why _anybody_ would choose
    to use a non-standard file dialog? It bugs the heck out of me when I go
    into a "Save" dialog and discover that it can't do all of the normal
    features - view the files, change between view modes, _delete_ files or
    directories if I choose (I very often do this in a standard file dialog - I
    delete junk when it comes to my attention, which is frequently only when
    I'm saving something else there).
    --
    derek


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  5. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    On Monday 23 January 2006 10:17, Derek Broughton wrote:
    [snip]
    > OK, so you're not the person who presumably chose to use this widget in
    > the first place,


    You're right, that wasn't my decision. And my opinions below represent what
    I _think_ the thought process is, not necessarily that I agree with it. ;-)

    > but can you offer any insight into why _anybody_ would
    > choose to use a non-standard file dialog?


    Yes, because it's not a custom file dialog. It's a directory dialog. It's
    purpose is different; to choose a directory. Seeing existing files (that
    you can't select) in a directory gets in the way, so only directories are
    shown.

    > It bugs the heck out of me
    > when I go into a "Save" dialog and discover that it can't do all of the
    > normal features - view the files, change between view modes, _delete_
    > files or directories if I choose (I very often do this in a standard file
    > dialog - I delete junk when it comes to my attention, which is frequently
    > only when I'm saving something else there).


    Viewing files you can't select makes it hard to find the directories you can
    select. I would guess the rationale behind not having the delete files
    capability is that directory choosers are not file managers. If you want
    to delete files, you should be using a file manager, not a file or
    directory chooser.

    As for changing view modes, I can't say. Perhaps the widget base class
    doesn't support hiding files in an icon view (or whatever) very easily.
    But I'd have to agree, changing views could be useful when selecting a
    directory.

    Now, why this sort of capability (rename or delete existing files) exists in
    a file chooser but not a directory chooser is a bit weird to me. If the
    programmer is going to stress that a directory chooser should only be for
    selecting a directory, why allow files to be deleted or renamed in a file
    chooser? I don't know the answer to that. Like you, I like that ability
    in a file chooser, so I'd like it in a directory chooser, too. And if, for
    some reason, those capabilities can't be included, then why not have a
    button to launch a file manager that opens to that directory?

    Justin


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  6. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    On Monday 23 January 2006 10:05, Tim Ruehsen wrote:
    > Am Montag, 23. Januar 2006 17:45 schrieb Justin Guerin:
    > > > * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off
    > > > from: - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new
    > > > directory might be based on the contents).
    > > > - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).

    >
    > [ ... ]
    >
    > > Regarding renaming or removing single files, how would you know which
    > > file you're renaming or removing? I mean, which of the files that
    > > you're saving?

    >
    > I was not talking about the files to save but about the files that are
    > already in the directory which I want to save the new files into. E.g. I
    > have attachments 1.vox 2.vox 3.vox and want to save it into directory X.
    > Before KDE 3.5/Kmail 1.9.1 I got this 'file selector' widget, where I
    > could see the already existing files. In this example, let's say there is
    > already an 2.vox. I could directly (within the widget), rename it to
    > 2.vox.old or decide to let it be overwritten by the new 2.vox (or
    > whatever).
    >

    Ah, now I think I understand your situation. I'm curious what happens when
    you want to save 1.vox, 2.vox and 3.vox to a directory that already
    contains 2.vox. Does it automatically overwrite? If so, that's bad. I'd
    file a minor bug against that. Or does it pop up a dialog asking what you
    want to do. If it's the latter, then it should give you the option to
    rename the old file, as well as the new. If it did, would that suffice?

    > > Out of curiosity, what did it work like before?

    >
    > See above.
    >
    > Thanks for your answer, Justin.
    >
    > Regards, Tim


    Getting back to your original questions:
    > Is there a switch to enforce getting a file selector?

    Not that I'm aware of.
    > If not: Would this be more a wishlist item or a minor/normal bug?

    It would be a wish list item, since it's an additional feature, and use of
    the directory chooser was not accidental.
    > Are there any other people who dislike the new 'feature'?

    I don't like it.

    Sorry that's not much help.

    Justin


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  7. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    > Ah, now I think I understand your situation. I'm curious what happens when
    > you want to save 1.vox, 2.vox and 3.vox to a directory that already
    > contains 2.vox. Does it automatically overwrite? If so, that's bad. I'd
    > file a minor bug against that. Or does it pop up a dialog asking what you
    > want to do. If it's the latter, then it should give you the option to
    > rename the old file, as well as the new. If it did, would that suffice?


    For every single file which already exists you will be asked to overwrite it.
    Your only choices are 'overwrite' and 'cancel' (which should be named
    'skip'). You can't move the old file out of the way (e.g. as backup).
    Even if you could: you have to do this for every single file. In the standard
    file dialog, you just mark as many files as you want and take action on all
    of them (e.g. move them into a different dir, delete etc.).

    Also, the directory dialogic looks like 1:1 copy from MS Windows, where this
    kind of dialog makes me angry for years now. No, not really angry. But it
    convinces me that MS employees do not use Windows as a productive desktop
    system. Or they are just not productive ? ;-)

    But after all: the directory dialog just takes away functionality without
    compensating that with anything else. either the directory dialog will be
    enhanced (which seems to be stupid) or the file dialog could be enhanced to
    just show directories (switchable off/on in the menu).

    I hate to file a bug to bugs.kde.org. They like to entangle one into endless
    discussions... volunteers?

    Regards, Tim


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  8. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    Tim Ruehsen wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I just updated to KDE 3.5 / KMail 1.9.1. When selecting 'save
    > attachments' on a mail with 2 or more attachments, a directory
    > selector/requester pop's up. It asks me for a directory to save the
    > files into. BUT:
    >
    > * I can't access my bookmarked directories. This makes the process of
    > selecting a directory much slower.
    >
    > * I can't see any files in the selected directory. This cuts me off
    > from: - a quick view into the directory (my decision to create a new
    > directory might be based on the contents).
    > - removing/renaming single files before I press OK (for saving).
    >
    > Since I use this feature up to several times a day, this loss of
    > productivity really annoys me.
    >
    > Is there a switch to enforce getting a file selector?


    If you are in the position to compile KMail from sources, you can revert
    this commit:

    http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&...9694124848&w=2

    > If not: Would this be more a wishlist item or a minor/normal bug?
    > Are there any other people who dislike the new 'feature'?


    It's just another proof that developers should be very careful with
    changing things already in applications. It's almost certain that you
    will break someones workflow.


    --
    Hasso Tepper
    KDE Estonian Team


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  9. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    Tim Ruehsen wrote:
    > I hate to file a bug to bugs.kde.org. They like to entangle one into
    > endless discussions... volunteers?


    Although it would be nice to get others to do the dirty work, it's not the
    way it works ... mostly. Filing bugreports is the only reliable way to
    reach most of KDE developers.


    --
    Hasso Tepper
    KDE Estonian Team


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  10. Re: Kmail 1.9.1 (KDE 3.5) 'save attachments' productivity loss

    > Although it would be nice to get others to do the dirty work, it's not the
    > way it works ... mostly. Filing bugreports is the only reliable way to
    > reach most of KDE developers.


    Yes, definitely. 'Volunteers?' was meant to be a little bit sarcastic. I did
    not expect someone to shout 'here!'.

    This thread has been started to see if i am the only one who complains, if
    there are work-arounds and to collect some arguments.

    I take care about filing a bug.

    Regards, Tim


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  11. Bug #120717 has been committed

    Please add comments, vote, see if I forgot something:

    https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120717

    Tim


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