Hotplug, udev, hal, etc. - Debian

This is a discussion on Hotplug, udev, hal, etc. - Debian ; I think it's time to drink a bit from the hose.. For info on hotplug: http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/ For info on udev: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/util...tplug/udev-FAQ (Udev handles /dev. Nothing more, nothing less.) A thread about udev on debian planet: http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=1181 A rather technical thread ...

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Thread: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

  1. Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    I think it's time to drink a bit from the hose..

    For info on hotplug:

    http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/

    For info on udev:

    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/util...tplug/udev-FAQ

    (Udev handles /dev. Nothing more, nothing less.)

    A thread about udev on debian planet:

    http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=1181

    A rather technical thread debian-devel on udev and pmount:

    http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00201.html

    An article on hal/D-bus:

    http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/index.p...iewtopic&t=178

    That should keep you occupied for a while I think. :-)

    Anders E. Andersen



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  2. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On 21:33 Tue 27 Sep 2005, Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote:
    > I think it's time to drink a bit from the hose..
    >
    > For info on hotplug:
    >
    > http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/
    >
    > For info on udev:
    >
    > http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/util...tplug/udev-FAQ
    >
    > (Udev handles /dev. Nothing more, nothing less.)
    >
    > A thread about udev on debian planet:
    >
    > http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=1181
    >
    > A rather technical thread debian-devel on udev and pmount:
    >
    > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00201.html
    >
    > An article on hal/D-bus:
    >
    > http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/index.p...iewtopic&t=178
    >
    > That should keep you occupied for a while I think. :-)



    Thanks for sharing. I will check these out when I am free.


    regards

    bxuef

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  3. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.


    Udev in unstable now conflicts with hotplug. From what I can gather udev has
    eaten up all of hotplugs functionallity, but I don't really have a clue about
    what is going on. Since some important KDE stuff depends on all this to work,
    I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could explain what the h... is
    going on.

    Please.. (Pretty please, with sugar on.)

    Anders


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  4. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    Hi Anders,

    On Sunday 09 October 2005 11:57, Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote:
    > Udev in unstable now conflicts with hotplug. From what I can gather udev
    > has eaten up all of hotplugs functionallity, but I don't really have a clue
    > about what is going on. Since some important KDE stuff depends on all this
    > to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could explain what
    > the h... is going on.


    Actually, it broke nothing regarding KDE, media:/ is still working (USB, that
    is. IEEE1394 refuses to cooperate insistently).

    But of course there are screw-ups:

    - sbp2 doesn't get loaded by hotplug anymore. err, udev.. well, you know what
    i mean. i had to put it into /etc/modules
    - my wlan startup script, formerly living in /etc/hotplug/usb, isn't beeing
    called anymore which forces me to start wlan manually until i figure out how
    to migrate that to udev.

    > Please.. (Pretty please, with sugar on.)


    Sorry, not too much sugar I guess.

    Ciao,
    Sven
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  5. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    Am Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2005 11:57 schrieb Anders Ellenshøj Andersen:
    > Udev in unstable now conflicts with hotplug. From what I can gather udev
    > has eaten up all of hotplugs functionallity, but I don't really have a clue
    > about what is going on. Since some important KDE stuff depends on all this
    > to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could explain what
    > the h... is going on.


    Sure, by upgrading, you loose all abilities to run linux-2.4.xx with hotplug
    functionality. You also agree to not run a linux kernel <2.6.12 because that
    won't work, too. Actually, you should run linux kernel 2.6.14 or higher. I
    know, doesn't exist, yet but that seems to be the attitude of the udev
    maintainer.
    Obviously, he lives in a perfect world, where all external kernel modules
    adapt to kernel changes very fast.

    Obviously, some DDs (e.g. the udev maintainer) gave up to make it possible to
    have more than one major kernel version installed (and still be able to run
    it properly).

    The udev package somewhat digs its own hole and I am glad that I did not
    change to udev. The udev package could also ask if you want to use hotplug or
    udev's coldplug, does it? (Can't tell because I don't have it installed).

    HS

  6. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:36:54PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote:

    > > Udev in unstable now conflicts with hotplug. From what I can gather udev
    > > has eaten up all of hotplugs functionallity, but I don't really have a clue
    > > about what is going on. Since some important KDE stuff depends on all this
    > > to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could explain what
    > > the h... is going on.

    >
    > Sure, by upgrading, you loose all abilities to run linux-2.4.xx with hotplug
    > functionality. You also agree to not run a linux kernel <2.6.12 because that
    > won't work, too. Actually, you should run linux kernel 2.6.14 or higher. I
    > know, doesn't exist, yet but that seems to be the attitude of the udev
    > maintainer.
    > Obviously, he lives in a perfect world, where all external kernel modules
    > adapt to kernel changes very fast.
    >
    > Obviously, some DDs (e.g. the udev maintainer) gave up to make it possible to
    > have more than one major kernel version installed (and still be able to run
    > it properly).
    >
    > The udev package somewhat digs its own hole and I am glad that I did not
    > change to udev. The udev package could also ask if you want to use hotplug or
    > udev's coldplug, does it? (Can't tell because I don't have it installed).


    I don't remember udev asking me anything on my system. I do remember X upgrade asking me about
    video card setup which I cancel.>
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  7. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Sunday 09 October 2005 12:36, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
    > > all this to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could
    > > explain what the h... is going on.

    >
    > Sure, by upgrading, you loose all abilities to run linux-2.4.xx with
    > hotplug functionality. You also agree to not run a linux kernel <2.6.12
    > because that won't work, too.


    Hmm.. Udev has been kernel 2.6.12 only for a while.. I guess if you use 2.4
    kernel you should use udev at all, and hotplug should work as before?

    > Actually, you should run linux kernel 2.6.14 or higher. I know, doesn't
    > exist, yet but that seems to be the attitude of the udev maintainer.


    That's kinda odd.

    > Obviously, he lives in a perfect world, where all external kernel modules
    > adapt to kernel changes very fast.


    But why, I must ask. What do you get in return?

    > Obviously, some DDs (e.g. the udev maintainer) gave up to make it possible
    > to have more than one major kernel version installed (and still be able to
    > run it properly).


    Oh? I can't really think of a reason why I would want to do a crazy thing like
    that.. I only have 2 kernels installed in case the new one I am testing fails
    for some reason.

    > The udev package somewhat digs its own hole and I am glad that I did not
    > change to udev. The udev package could also ask if you want to use hotplug
    > or udev's coldplug, does it? (Can't tell because I don't have it
    > installed).


    Udev is cool, but I'd sure like to know why all the changes are happening.

    Anders

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  8. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Sunday 09 October 2005 15:26, Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote:
    > On Sunday 09 October 2005 12:36, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
    > > > all this to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff
    > > > could explain what the h... is going on.


    There have been extensive threads on this subject on d-devel. Suggest
    people interested in udev/hotplug/coldplug read up on those.

    Some links:
    http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg01247.html
    continued: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00110.html
    http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg01454.html
    continued: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00732.html
    http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00830.html

    Please don't repeat the whole discussion here. Although it would be good
    to see a discussion on how KDE will deal with the changes and status of
    udev. IMO udev is not yet mature and should remain optional for now.

    Cheers,
    FJP

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  9. Scanners.

    I am using a Scanjet 4200c scanner. Sane doesn't list it as being supported
    at this time. How do I get it to work? I loaded the deb. packages for it.
    I know that is a pretty broad question. I found a patch for Sane, but I
    don't know how it get it installed. I can't get the commands that they give
    to work with it. Who's software should I use, or what should I use? My
    machine shows the scanner as "being there", but I can't get it to scan, and
    I have looked through all the packages that seem to deal with HP scanners on
    the debian cd's. This is with Debian 3.1 for the system info. Any
    guidance would be appreciated.

    Shawn Huston

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Anders Ellenshøj Andersen"
    To:
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:26 AM
    Subject: Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.


    > On Sunday 09 October 2005 12:36, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
    >> > all this to work, I'd sure like if someone who knows this stuff could
    >> > explain what the h... is going on.

    >>
    >> Sure, by upgrading, you loose all abilities to run linux-2.4.xx with
    >> hotplug functionality. You also agree to not run a linux kernel <2.6.12
    >> because that won't work, too.

    >
    > Hmm.. Udev has been kernel 2.6.12 only for a while.. I guess if you use
    > 2.4
    > kernel you should use udev at all, and hotplug should work as before?
    >
    >> Actually, you should run linux kernel 2.6.14 or higher. I know, doesn't
    >> exist, yet but that seems to be the attitude of the udev maintainer.

    >
    > That's kinda odd.
    >
    >> Obviously, he lives in a perfect world, where all external kernel modules
    >> adapt to kernel changes very fast.

    >
    > But why, I must ask. What do you get in return?
    >
    >> Obviously, some DDs (e.g. the udev maintainer) gave up to make it
    >> possible
    >> to have more than one major kernel version installed (and still be able
    >> to
    >> run it properly).

    >
    > Oh? I can't really think of a reason why I would want to do a crazy thing
    > like
    > that.. I only have 2 kernels installed in case the new one I am testing
    > fails
    > for some reason.
    >
    >> The udev package somewhat digs its own hole and I am glad that I did not
    >> change to udev. The udev package could also ask if you want to use
    >> hotplug
    >> or udev's coldplug, does it? (Can't tell because I don't have it
    >> installed).

    >
    > Udev is cool, but I'd sure like to know why all the changes are happening.
    >
    > Anders
    >
    > --
    > - Debian/Unstable - KDE 3.4.2 - KMail 1.8.2 -
    >
    >
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  10. Re: Scanners.

    On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:23:20PM -0400, Huston wrote:
    > I am using a Scanjet 4200c scanner. Sane doesn't list it as being
    > supported at this time. How do I get it to work?


    Does the Scanjet 4200 driver in libsane-extras drive it ?

    Nick


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  11. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    > > There have been extensive threads on this subject on d-devel. Suggest
    > > people interested in udev/hotplug/coldplug read up on those.

    >
    > +5 informative.
    >
    > I guess the main point is the udev is still and will be as far as the
    > forseeable future goes, a highly moving target.
    >
    > Also the udev faqs and other user-targeted information in the hotplug folder
    > at kernel.org seems to be effectively outdated and can no longer be relied
    > upon.
    >
    > And how KDE will deal with the changes seems even harder to tell since there
    > is no way to tell where udev is going in the future..


    Hmmm, I wonder if I should remove udev and reinstall hotplug for now since udev isn't really
    mature. I am still using Kernel 2.6.12-K7. What do you guys think? I am just a regular user in
    using Linux and KDE as a workstation.
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  12. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Sunday 09 October 2005 17:23, Frans Pop wrote:
    > There have been extensive threads on this subject on d-devel. Suggest
    > people interested in udev/hotplug/coldplug read up on those.


    +5 informative.

    I guess the main point is the udev is still and will be as far as the
    forseeable future goes, a highly moving target.

    Also the udev faqs and other user-targeted information in the hotplug folder
    at kernel.org seems to be effectively outdated and can no longer be relied
    upon.

    And how KDE will deal with the changes seems even harder to tell since there
    is no way to tell where udev is going in the future..

    Anders

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  13. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Sunday 09 October 2005 20:08, Phillip Pi wrote:
    > Hmmm, I wonder if I should remove udev and reinstall hotplug for now since
    > udev isn't really mature. I am still using Kernel 2.6.12-K7. What do you
    > guys think? I am just a regular user in using Linux and KDE as a
    > workstation.


    I think this depends on whether you are prepared to handle the difficulties
    involved in the occasional package restructuring that occurs as udev changes.

    Personally I think the benefit of having a small dynamic /dev folder is so
    big, that I can live with problems that show up from time to time.

    For example for a couple of months this summer I had to manually
    create /dev/dvd (and cdrom) symlinks after boot, so I could play dvds on
    kaffeine. The reason was an udev change that caused the symlinks to no longer
    be created. I had to purge all of udev and hotplug, and delete all the
    configuration files in /etc/udev manually and then reinstall to get it
    working again.

    Anders


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  14. Re: Scanners.

    No it does not. I am running the 2.6.8 kernel from the disk....
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Nick Leverton"
    To:
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 1:15 PM
    Subject: Re: Scanners.


    > On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:23:20PM -0400, Huston wrote:
    >> I am using a Scanjet 4200c scanner. Sane doesn't list it as being
    >> supported at this time. How do I get it to work?

    >
    > Does the Scanjet 4200 driver in libsane-extras drive it ?
    >
    > Nick
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    >




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  15. Re: Scanners.

    I guess to add to this. I believe it worked with the 2.4.7 kernel....I went
    to this other one and lost it...
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Huston"
    To:
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:27 PM
    Subject: Re: Scanners.


    > No it does not. I am running the 2.6.8 kernel from the disk....
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Nick Leverton"
    > To:
    > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 1:15 PM
    > Subject: Re: Scanners.
    >
    >
    >> On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:23:20PM -0400, Huston wrote:
    >>> I am using a Scanjet 4200c scanner. Sane doesn't list it as being
    >>> supported at this time. How do I get it to work?

    >>
    >> Does the Scanjet 4200 driver in libsane-extras drive it ?
    >>
    >> Nick
    >>
    >>
    >> --
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    >> listmaster@lists.debian.org
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
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  16. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote:

    > On Sunday 09 October 2005 12:36, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
    >
    >> Obviously, some DDs (e.g. the udev maintainer) gave up to make it
    >> possible to have more than one major kernel version installed (and still
    >> be able to run it properly).

    >
    > Oh? I can't really think of a reason why I would want to do a crazy thing
    > like that.. I only have 2 kernels installed in case the new one I am
    > testing fails for some reason.


    I can think of a reason easily. I get my internet access from DirecWay
    satellite. Until recently I was using the modem that was only intended to
    run with Windows. I had to run a 2.4 kernel because the sourceforge
    DirecPC driver wouldn't compile for 2.6. otoh, I needed a 2.6 kernel to
    use many of the functions of my Dell laptop. So I used 2.6 at work, and
    2.4 at home. Now, DirecWay has a combined modem/router, like most
    cable/DSL connections and is completely OS ignorant, so I only run a 2.6
    kernel.
    --
    derek


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  17. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    On Tuesday 11 October 2005 16:09, Derek Broughton wrote:
    > > Oh? I can't really think of a reason why I would want to do a crazy thing
    > > like that.. I only have 2 kernels installed in case the new one I am
    > > testing fails for some reason.

    >
    > I had to run a 2.4 kernel because the sourceforge
    > DirecPC driver wouldn't compile for 2.6. otoh, I needed a 2.6 kernel to
    > use many of the functions of my Dell laptop. So I used 2.6 at work, and
    > 2.4 at home.


    Now that's just crazy!




    Anders


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  18. Re: Hotplug, udev, hal, etc.

    Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote:

    > On Tuesday 11 October 2005 16:09, Derek Broughton wrote:
    >> > Oh? I can't really think of a reason why I would want to do a crazy
    >> > thing like that.. I only have 2 kernels installed in case the new one I
    >> > am testing fails for some reason.

    >>
    >> I had to run a 2.4 kernel because the sourceforge
    >> DirecPC driver wouldn't compile for 2.6. otoh, I needed a 2.6 kernel to
    >> use many of the functions of my Dell laptop. So I used 2.6 at work, and
    >> 2.4 at home.

    >
    > Now that's just crazy!
    >

    Pretty much. The problem is that _nobody_ relies on Satellite Internet if
    they have another option. So you'd get someone developing the driver for a
    few months, then they'd get DSL or Cable where they lived and lose all
    interest. None of the developers still has a satellite link, and nobody
    finished working on it for 2.6.
    --
    derek


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