usb storage problems - Debian

This is a discussion on usb storage problems - Debian ; I continue to be stumped by USB storage devices in KDE. Only once with some older version of Knoppix did a USB stick appear automatically on the desktop when plugged in. I don't need this, but I do need at ...

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Thread: usb storage problems

  1. usb storage problems

    I continue to be stumped by USB storage devices in KDE. Only once with some
    older version of Knoppix did a USB stick appear automatically on the desktop
    when plugged in. I don't need this, but I do need at least to know under
    which name the device can be mounted. Even without other SCSI devices, the
    devices seem to vary from sda1 through sda5 to sdd1. I did once in a fit of
    frenzy create 20 different lines in /etc/fstab in order to find the right
    device, but it didn't really work. Years ago I could find the right device
    in /proc somewhere, but this no longer seems possible.

    People have recommended pmount, but all I get is:
    "find_sysfs_device: looking for sysfs directory for device 8:1
    Fehler: konnte sysfs-Verzeichnis nicht erfragen"

    People have recommended hal, but I am loathe to install this, because it would
    involve the deinstallation of about 20 packages on my system.

    People have recommended a 2.6 kernel, but my system with a 2.6 kernel has the
    same problems as with the 2.4 kernel.

    Looking through the internet I see a great many questions of this nature, but
    no simple answers. Also even worse, often when having found the right device
    name, it is impossible to mount because the system claims that it has the
    wrong file type or a damaged superblock even when this is definately not the
    case.

    Very occasionally when trying these things, KDE and even the whole system
    freeze up completely so that the machine must be rebooted by removing the
    power.

    Surely it must be possible in this day and age to get where Macintosh was 10
    years ago with SCSI, even if it wasn't hot-pluggable then. Devices appeared
    automatically on the desktop or could be easily mounted with some utility. I
    don't even need hot-plugable, but I do need a simple method to mount my
    camera, SD-cards, and external USB drive. Anybody got any ideas how to
    proceed?

    Theo Schmidt


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  2. Re: usb storage problems

    On 9/18/05, Theo Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > I continue to be stumped by USB storage devices in KDE. Only once with
    > some
    > older version of Knoppix did a USB stick appear automatically on the
    > desktop
    > when plugged in. I don't need this, but I do need at least to know under
    > which name the device can be mounted. Even without other SCSI devices, the
    > devices seem to vary from sda1 through sda5 to sdd1. I did once in a fit
    > of
    > frenzy create 20 different lines in /etc/fstab in order to find the right
    > device, but it didn't really work. Years ago I could find the right device
    > in /proc somewhere, but this no longer seems possible.
    >


    udev and hotplug work fine for me, you may have a look at my files at
    http://www.svenkrahn.de/linux/my_deb...03.html#d0e659

    Devices appear under their respective kernel names, but also under any given
    name you have specified in the udev rules.
    To make them appear automatically on your KDE desktop without pmount you can
    use a small script which is called by hotplug (also described in my setup
    notes).

    --
    Best regards / Mit den besten Grüssen
    Sven Krahn


  3. Re: usb storage problems

    Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > I continue to be stumped by USB storage devices in KDE. Only once with
    > some older version of Knoppix did a USB stick appear automatically on the
    > desktop when plugged in. I don't need this, but I do need at least to know
    > under which name the device can be mounted. Even without other SCSI
    > devices, the devices seem to vary from sda1 through sda5 to sdd1. I did
    > once in a fit of frenzy create 20 different lines in /etc/fstab in order
    > to find the right device, but it didn't really work. Years ago I could
    > find the right device in /proc somewhere, but this no longer seems
    > possible.
    >
    > People have recommended pmount, but all I get is:
    > "find_sysfs_device: looking for sysfs directory for device 8:1
    > Fehler: konnte sysfs-Verzeichnis nicht erfragen"
    >
    > People have recommended hal, but I am loathe to install this, because it
    > would involve the deinstallation of about 20 packages on my system.
    >
    > People have recommended a 2.6 kernel, but my system with a 2.6 kernel has
    > the same problems as with the 2.4 kernel.


    Sorry, but 2.4 is pretty primitive these days. As long as it only has the
    "same" problems, upgrade. I wouldn't want to bet we can fix _this_ problem
    on 2.4.
    >
    > Looking through the internet I see a great many questions of this nature,
    > but no simple answers.


    Sure there are, but you're refusing to use them. For most people, hal, dbus
    & pmount solve the problem - without any need to configure anything.

    However, in your case - and possibly even on 2.4 kernels - udev could easily
    be made to provide a symlink to /dev/usbstick every time you mount the
    device. Then you just need one entry in fstab.

    > Also even worse, often when having found the right
    > device name, it is impossible to mount because the system claims that it
    > has the wrong file type or a damaged superblock even when this is
    > definately not the case.


    I'd be prepared to bet it definitely _is_ the case. What those messages
    usually mean are that you specified a file type in fstab, and that isn't
    what's on the device; or you mounted (e.g.) /dev/sdb when you should have
    mounted /dev/sdb1

    > Surely it must be possible in this day and age to get where Macintosh was
    > 10 years ago with SCSI, even if it wasn't hot-pluggable then.


    Yeah, but not if you're not willing to use the software from "this day and
    age". Try installing a clean version of Kubuntu and see how easy it is...
    --
    derek


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  4. Re: usb storage problems

    Am Sonntag, 18. September 2005 16.56 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    ....
    > Sorry, but 2.4 is pretty primitive these days. As long as it only has the
    > "same" problems, upgrade. I wouldn't want to bet we can fix _this_ problem
    > on 2.4.


    OK, convinced and done (see previous mail).

    > > Looking through the internet I see a great many questions of this nature,
    > > but no simple answers.

    >
    > Sure there are, but you're refusing to use them. For most people, hal,
    > dbus & pmount solve the problem - without any need to configure anything.


    dbus is installed, including the documentation. I don't have a clue what to do
    with this. In order to install hal or udev I would need to uninstall
    baseconfig and about ten other important-sounding packages. The last time I
    did something like this, my system became unusable.

    But pmount now works. And KDE shows the devices :-) All I'm missing is a way
    of umounting them easily.


    > However, in your case - and possibly even on 2.4 kernels - udev could
    > easily be made to provide a symlink to /dev/usbstick every time you mount
    > the device. Then you just need one entry in fstab.


    can't use udev, same dependency nightmare as hal :-(


    > > ...it is impossible to mount because the system claims that it
    > > has the wrong file type or a damaged superblock even when this is
    > > definately not the case.

    >
    > I'd be prepared to bet it definitely _is_ the case. What those messages
    > usually mean are that you specified a file type in fstab, and that isn't
    > what's on the device; or you mounted (e.g.) /dev/sdb when you should have
    > mounted /dev/sdb1


    You are correct. My problem seems to be wierd partitions and/or unknown file
    types. Just while writing this I managed to mount one of my SD cards, but
    only after using QTparted in order to identify the partition to use (sdc1),
    but shows "unknown file system type". Pmount then works. fstab entries don't,
    because of the unknown file system. Pmount rocks, halfway there! Thanks,
    Derek.

    Incidently, cat /proc/partitions won't show the SD card *until it has already
    been pmounted*. It is thus not useful to determine unknown partitions.

    Theo Schmidt


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  5. Re: usb storage problems

    Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > Am Sonntag, 18. September 2005 16.56 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    > ...
    >> Sorry, but 2.4 is pretty primitive these days. As long as it only has
    >> the
    >> "same" problems, upgrade. I wouldn't want to bet we can fix _this_
    >> problem on 2.4.

    >
    > OK, convinced and done (see previous mail).


    Excellent.
    >>
    >> For most people, hal,
    >> dbus & pmount solve the problem - without any need to configure anything.

    >
    > dbus is installed, including the documentation. I don't have a clue what
    > to do with this.


    Me neither :-) It's just a dependency for hal and pmount.

    > In order to install hal or udev I would need to uninstall
    > baseconfig


    base-config??

    > and about ten other important-sounding packages. The last time
    > I did something like this, my system became unusable.


    Maybe give us the actual output from apt?

    > But pmount now works. And KDE shows the devices :-) All I'm missing is a
    > way of umounting them easily.


    So, you have a device on the desktop that is unmounted? Click on the
    device, it mounts, right-click and select "unmount" to unmount it. If
    that's not working, what _is_ happening?

    > You are correct. My problem seems to be wierd partitions and/or unknown
    > file types. Just while writing this I managed to mount one of my SD cards,
    > but only after using QTparted in order to identify the partition to use
    > (sdc1), but shows "unknown file system type". Pmount then works. fstab
    > entries don't, because of the unknown file system. Pmount rocks, halfway
    > there! Thanks, Derek.
    >
    > Incidently, cat /proc/partitions won't show the SD card *until it has
    > already been pmounted*. It is thus not useful to determine unknown
    > partitions.


    I think that's a hotplug or udev issue. I think we really need to get udev
    fixed. Have you done an "apt-get update" recently?
    --
    derek


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  6. Re: usb storage problems

    I'm sorry for the length of this thread. Maybe it is of use to somebody,
    however.

    Am Montag, 19. September 2005 17.00 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    ...
    > > In order to install hal or udev I would need to uninstall

    > base-config??
    > > and about ten other important-sounding packages...

    >
    > Maybe give us the actual output from apt?


    Here it is. Note --simulate

    root@tbox:/home/theo# apt-get --simulate install udev
    Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
    Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut... Fertig
    Die folgenden zusätzlichen Pakete werden installiert:
    e2fslibs e2fsprogs initscripts libc6 libc6-dev libselinux1 locales
    Vorgeschlagene Pakete:
    e2fsck-static
    Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
    base-config console-common console-data console-tools euro-support-console
    modutils nfs-common nfs-kernel-server sysvinit
    Die folgenden NEUEN Pakete werden installiert:
    initscripts libselinux1 udev
    Die folgenden Pakete werden aktualisiert:
    e2fslibs e2fsprogs libc6 libc6-dev locales
    WARNUNG: Die folgenden essentiellen Pakete werden entfernt.
    Die sollte NICHT geschehen, wenn Sie nicht genau wissen, was Sie tun!
    sysvinit
    5 aktualisiert, 3 neu installiert, 9 zu entfernen und 650 nicht aktualisiert.
    Remv base-config (2.71 Debian:testing)
    Remv euro-support-console (1.33 Debian:testing)
    Remv console-data (2002.12.04dbs-49 Debian:testing) [console-common ]
    Remv console-common (0.7.53 Debian:testing) [console-tools ]
    Remv console-tools (1:0.2.3dbs-56 Debian:testing)
    Remv modutils (2.4.26-1.2 Debian:testing)
    Remv nfs-kernel-server (1:1.0.7-3 Debian:testing)
    Remv nfs-common (1:1.0.7-3 Debian:testing)
    Remv sysvinit (2:2.84-163 )
    Inst libc6-dev [2.3.2.ds1-22] (2.3.5-6 Debian:testing) []
    Inst locales [2.3.2.ds1-22] (2.3.5-6 Debian:testing) []
    E: Dieser Installationslauf erfordert, dass vorübergehend das essentielle
    Paket e2fsprogs aufgrund einer Konflikt-/Vor-Abhängigkeits-Schleife entfernt
    wird. Das ist oft schlimm, aber wenn Sie es wirklich tun wollen, aktivieren
    Sie bittedie Option APT::Force-LoopBreak.
    E: Internal Error, Could not early remove e2fsprogs

    Sorry, it's in (misspellt!) German, but there are two severe warnings, one
    error (although I expect that comes from the --simulate option), and a
    cryptic instruction: heavy stuff!

    ...
    > So, you have a device on the desktop that is unmounted? Click on the
    > device, it mounts, right-click and select "unmount" to unmount it. If
    > that's not working, what _is_ happening?


    The icon appears on the desktop already mounted after executing pmount. The
    right-click method returns an error window (kio_devices_mounthelper) with:
    "umount: fstab enthält /media/sdc1 nicht (Nur root kann es aushängen)
    Please check that the disk is entered correctly."

    It would of course be slick if KDE could be taught to use pumount instead of
    umount.

    ...
    > > Incidently, cat /proc/partitions won't show the SD card *until it has
    > > already been pmounted*. It is thus not useful to determine unknown
    > > partitions.

    >
    > I think that's a hotplug or udev issue. I think we really need to get udev
    > fixed. Have you done an "apt-get update" recently?


    Yes, for "testing". But I do have 650 packages a couple of months old. I
    update some of them from time to time, steering clear of anything with "k" in
    it, as I do not want the very severe problems I had twice already or which
    appear often on this list. Also the above installation for udev sounds seems
    terribly risky to me. I don't mind adding or updating things, but removing
    them is usually bad news. There should be an "undo" button in synaptic! But
    I'm happy with the situation now, will enjoy hal and udev in a year or so, I
    expect, and thank you very much indeed for your help and patience!

    Theo

  7. Re: usb storage problems

    Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > > Maybe give us the actual output from apt?

    >
    > Here it is. Note --simulate
    >
    > root@tbox:/home/theo# apt-get --simulate install udev

    ....
    > Die folgenden Pakete werden aktualisiert:
    > e2fslibs e2fsprogs libc6 libc6-dev locales
    > WARNUNG: Die folgenden essentiellen Pakete werden entfernt.
    > Die sollte NICHT geschehen, wenn Sie nicht genau wissen, was Sie tun!
    > sysvinit
    > 5 aktualisiert, 3 neu installiert, 9 zu entfernen und 650 nicht
    > aktualisiert.


    > Sorry, it's in (misspellt!) German, but there are two severe warnings, one
    > error (although I expect that comes from the --simulate option), and a
    > cryptic instruction: heavy stuff!


    My German is rusty enough to be completely forgiving of spelling (ie, I
    couldn't spell it right myself...), but that's clear enough.

    It's the 650 "not installed" programs that are killing you. I believe
    you're getting caught in a libc6 upgrade. If you've got the nerve for it,
    "aptitude upgrade" might install most of those 650 (without removing
    anything), then try again.

    > > So, you have a device on the desktop that is unmounted? Click on the
    > > device, it mounts, right-click and select "unmount" to unmount it. If
    > > that's not working, what _is_ happening?

    >
    > The icon appears on the desktop already mounted after executing pmount.


    The icon _should_ appear on the desktop unmounted - if you have the KDE
    device settings configured (Desktop configuration / behaviour/ device
    icons) to show unmounted removable devices. So then you click on it and it
    mounts (using pmount).

    > It would of course be slick if KDE could be taught to use pumount instead
    > of umount.


    It will if _KDE_ pmounted it in the first place.
    > ...
    > > I think that's a hotplug or udev issue. I think we really need to get
    > > udev fixed. Have you done an "apt-get update" recently?

    >
    > Yes, for "testing". But I do have 650 packages a couple of months old. I
    > update some of them from time to time, steering clear of anything with "k"
    > in it, as I do not want the very severe problems I had twice already or
    > which appear often on this list. Also the above installation for udev
    > sounds seems terribly risky to me. I don't mind adding or updating things,
    > but removing them is usually bad news. There should be an "undo" button in
    > synaptic! But I'm happy with the situation now, will enjoy hal and udev in
    > a year or so, I expect, and thank you very much indeed for your help and
    > patience!


    So try the "upgrade". "upgrade" is generally safe, where "dist-upgrade" may
    not be. Not being an "etch" user, I couldn't bet on whether it's currently
    safe to dist-upgrade to it.
    --
    derek


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  8. Re: usb storage problems

    Am Montag, 19. September 2005 19.32 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    ....
    > It's the 650 "not installed" programs that are killing you. I believe
    > you're getting caught in a libc6 upgrade. If you've got the nerve for it,
    > "aptitude upgrade" might install most of those 650 (without removing
    > anything), then try again.


    No, I havn't got the nerve (yet), until I've backuped an image of my hard
    disk.

    > > > So, you have a device on the desktop that is unmounted? Click on the
    > > > device, it mounts, right-click and select "unmount" to unmount it. If
    > > > that's not working, what _is_ happening?

    > >
    > > The icon appears on the desktop already mounted after executing pmount.

    >
    > The icon _should_ appear on the desktop unmounted - if you have the KDE
    > device settings configured (Desktop configuration / behaviour/ device
    > icons) to show unmounted removable devices. So then you click on it and it
    > mounts (using pmount).


    Hmm... I do have the KDE desktop configured to show unmounted devices, but it
    only shows mounted devices.

    ....
    > So try the "upgrade". "upgrade" is generally safe, where "dist-upgrade"
    > may not be. Not being an "etch" user, I couldn't bet on whether it's
    > currently safe to dist-upgrade to it.


    At the moment I have a more pressing problem: having updated the kernel, it no
    longer plays any sound, even after an hour of fiddling. It's also quite slow
    booting, taking longer than a Knoppix Live-CD-ROM. Going back to the old 2.4
    kernel, the sound is fine, but I can't mount my USB devices...

    Looking on the internet, I see about 1000 sound problems of the same nature,
    but no easy solutions, only stuff like "compile your own kernel".

    Anyway, I'll have to take these problems somewhere else now, as it has nothing
    to do with KDE.

    Theo Schmidt


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  9. Re: usb storage problems

    Hi,

    Theo Schmidt a écrit :
    [...]
    > At the moment I have a more pressing problem: having updated the kernel, it no
    > longer plays any sound, even after an hour of fiddling. It's also quite slow
    > booting, taking longer than a Knoppix Live-CD-ROM. Going back to the old 2.4
    > kernel, the sound is fine, but I can't mount my USB devices...


    You could make a:

    dpkg-repack kernel-image-2.6.11

    of Knoppix kernel and install it.

    Or use config of this kernel to take a start point for your own.

    Jody


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  10. Re: usb storage problems

    Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > At the moment I have a more pressing problem: having updated the kernel,
    > it no longer plays any sound, even after an hour of fiddling.


    Agh. Kernel upgrades and sound, been there done that.

    > Anyway, I'll have to take these problems somewhere else now, as it has
    > nothing to do with KDE.


    Barely. However, to keep it temporarily on-topice, run kmix and toggle ALL
    the switches. In particular, in my case, I had to toggle _on_ "External
    amplifier". Someone else with apparently the same problem had to toggle
    _off_ "External amplifier". Some of those settings make no sense :-(

    If that doesn't work, start a new thread for the sound problem.
    --
    derek


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  11. sound problem with new kernel [was: Re: usb storage problems]

    Am Mittwoch, 21. September 2005 15.15 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    > Theo Schmidt wrote:
    > > At the moment I have a more pressing problem: having updated the kernel,
    > > it no longer plays any sound...
    > > Anyway, I'll have to take these problems somewhere else now, as it has
    > > nothing to do with KDE.

    >
    > Barely. However, to keep it temporarily on-topice, run kmix and toggle ALL
    > the switches.


    There are *no switches* anymore! KDE even shows a kind of "sad" cursor
    animation!

    > If that doesn't work, start a new thread for the sound problem.


    Done, but I've actually also started asking on the debian-kernel list. KDE
    can't be blamed, because other commandline tools can't even find my sound
    card, only Knoppix can. I'll let you know what it was, anyway.

    Theo Schmidt


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  12. Re: usb storage problems

    Am Mittwoch, 21. September 2005 15:15 schrieb Derek Broughton:
    > > Anyway, I'll have to take these problems somewhere else now, as it has
    > > nothing to do with KDE.

    >
    > Barely. However, to keep it temporarily on-topice, run kmix and toggle ALL
    > the switches. In particular, in my case, I had to toggle _on_ "External
    > amplifier". Someone else with apparently the same problem had to toggle
    > _off_ "External amplifier". Some of those settings make no sense :-(
    >
    > If that doesn't work, start a new thread for the sound problem.


    Almost everybody knows that alsa-based sound settings in kmix are rarely
    satisfying. You just cannot see what's more broken: the driver or kmix.

    HS


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  13. Re: sound problem with new kernel [was: Re: usb storage problems]

    On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 03:53 +1000, Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > Am Mittwoch, 21. September 2005 15.15 schrieb Derek Broughton:


    >
    > Done, but I've actually also started asking on the debian-kernel list. KDE
    > can't be blamed, because other commandline tools can't even find my sound
    > card, only Knoppix can. I'll let you know what it was, anyway.
    >
    > Theo Schmidt
    >
    >

    I guess it comes down to what soundcard you're using, and if it's
    supported with a driver in the Debian kernel. This is the one thing
    that I've always disliked about Debian kernels. If it isn't, grab both
    the src and the kernel headers for the version of the kernel that you
    grabbed, and recompile it, so that it includes your drivers. Knoppix
    will typically use a kernel that's got a vast majority of drivers
    enabled, so that it works, out of the box, on as many systems as
    possible. More kernel features = kernel bloat.

    Dave


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