Automounter in KDE - Debian

This is a discussion on Automounter in KDE - Debian ; On Thursday 11 August 2005 04:55 pm, Randy Kramer wrote: > Thanks! Not sure that's the perfect solution, but it sure sounds like a > step in the right direction--thinking of a way to accomplish something > rather than reasons ...

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Thread: Automounter in KDE

  1. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 04:55 pm, Randy Kramer wrote:

    > Thanks! Not sure that's the perfect solution, but it sure sounds like a
    > step in the right direction--thinking of a way to accomplish something
    > rather than reasons to not accomplish something. Also, in terms of
    > numbers, I wonder how many Linux systems have a single (vs. multiple) real
    > (i.e., human) users? Maybe we need a single user and a multiuser Linux (OS
    > and kernel?)?


    False. Single-user means a single security space. One key reason that
    Windows is historically so insecure is that it's a single security space, and
    programs are written to assume that so you really can't operate any other
    way.

    If you're splitting admin mode and non-admin mode, then you already have a
    multi-user system. Artificially limiting the system to just one non-admin
    accomplishes nothing.

    I've never had a problem with my multi-user OS used by a single user that has
    been the result of it being a multi-user OS.

    --
    Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

    "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
    of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
    Jefferson


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  2. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 06:11 pm, Larry Garfield wrote:
    > On Thursday 11 August 2005 04:55 pm, Randy Kramer wrote:
    > > Maybe we need a single user and a multiuser
    > > Linux (OS and kernel?)?

    >
    > False. Single-user means a single security space. One key reason that
    > Windows is historically so insecure is that it's a single security space,
    > and programs are written to assume that so you really can't operate any
    > other way.
    >


    Good point, thanks!

    Randy Kramer


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  3. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Larry Garfield wrote:

    > False. Single-user means a single security space. One key reason that
    > Windows is historically so insecure is that it's a single security space,
    > and programs are written to assume that so you really can't operate any
    > other way.


    While that's true, it puts the lie to the quoted FAQ's reason about why you
    shouldn't just be able to eject a CD. If you only need multi-user to
    separate security spaces, there's no reason not to let just anybody eject
    the CD.

    > I've never had a problem with my multi-user OS used by a single user that
    > has been the result of it being a multi-user OS.


    No, and I think SuSE's reasoning here was wrong.
    --
    derek


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  4. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Larry Garfield wrote:

    > But when I plug in my multi-slot USB card
    > reader, it should automatically create logical, consistent names for each
    > slot
    > independently and then mount them as needed. There is, in 2005, simply no
    > excuse for that to not work automatically.
    >
    > Yet, when I do so, I have to first spend an hour with udev's various
    > not-well-named-or-documented tools to figure out what the heck it is and


    You need more than /usr/share/doc/udev/writing_udev_rules/index.html? I
    doubt that's only available in the ubuntu version of udev.
    --
    derek


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  5. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 07:38 pm, Derek Broughton wrote:
    > Larry Garfield wrote:
    > > False. Single-user means a single security space. One key reason that
    > > Windows is historically so insecure is that it's a single security space,
    > > and programs are written to assume that so you really can't operate any
    > > other way.

    >
    > While that's true, it puts the lie to the quoted FAQ's reason about why you
    > shouldn't just be able to eject a CD. If you only need multi-user to
    > separate security spaces, there's no reason not to let just anybody eject
    > the CD.


    To put the blame once again on the kernel dev team (not that I dislike them, I
    just think they're way off when it comes to removable media), limiting who
    can change the hardware configuration of the system is not an unreasonable
    thing from a security standpoint. That was doubly true when all mounted
    devices were hard drives, network shares, or core memory. We've still not
    figured out how to make multi-user work with removable media in general. :-)

    --
    Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

    "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
    of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
    Jefferson


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  6. Re: Automounter in KDE

    > numbers, I wonder how many Linux systems have a single (vs. multiple) real
    > (i.e., human) users? Maybe we need a single user and a multiuser Linux (OS
    > and kernel?)?

    I doubt that it can be done - Linux was build as multiuser system to avoid
    security and other issues which present in m$. So making a singleuser system
    is equal with building a m$ clone. And I doubt we need it.
    But it doesn't mean that mouning/umounting can't be done normally. Larry
    Garfield was right - 1970s are over.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: Randy Kramer
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 2005 23:55
    > On Thursday 11 August 2005 03:32 pm, Kevin Krammer wrote:
    > > No. If you successfully unmount a filesystem it implies that nobody else
    > > was using it at that time.
    > > If you remove a data medium without having its filesystem unmounted first
    > > can lead to application crashed or worse (data loss).
    > >
    > > A possible correct behaviour would be to send an unmount request to all
    > > process currently using the filesystem/medium in question on eject
    > > requests and remove it when it can be savely unmounted.

    >
    > Thanks! Not sure that's the perfect solution, but it sure sounds like a
    > step in the right direction--thinking of a way to accomplish something
    > rather than reasons to not accomplish something. Also, in terms of
    > numbers, I wonder how many Linux systems have a single (vs. multiple) real
    > (i.e., human) users? Maybe we need a single user and a multiuser Linux (OS
    > and kernel?)?
    >
    > regards,
    > Randy Kramer


  7. Re: Automounter in KDE

    This is a relatively old bug in KDE itself. Folks say the kio_audiocd grab the
    cdrom and never let it be umounted. There is some workarounds: for example
    don't open Konqueror's sidebar. You can still umount it as root, which is
    course not very comfortable. Or you can modify sysctl - for me it's work just
    fine with the combination with ivman.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: Theo Schmidt
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 2005 22:22
    > Am Donnerstag, 11. August 2005 21.32 schrieb Kevin Krammer:
    > ....
    >
    > > A possible correct behaviour would be to send an unmount request to all
    > > process currently using the filesystem/medium in question on eject
    > > requests and remove it when it can be savely unmounted.

    >
    > I suppose this is what the eject command is supposed to do. In Sarge I
    > havn't got the eject command to work a single time yet. Often it isn't even
    > possible to umount a CD-ROM: "device is being used", even when all programs
    > using the CD are terminated. This is a real pain, as it is often only
    > possible to remove the CD-ROM after winding down the whole system. A
    > solution was given I believe on this list a while ago, but it didn't work
    > (sysctl something). Unfortunately it is small usability bugs like these
    > which really turn newbies off and back to other systems where these mount
    > problems don't seem to occur (but other ones :-)
    >
    > Theo Schmidt


  8. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Automounter_in_KDE?=

    > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > ...
    > > How about mount-on-demand?

    > ...
    > > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    > >
    > > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > > the majority of the population (;-)).

    >
    > It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently
    > happening
    > transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux. I would like to
    > have a system where either everything is mounted and umounted manually or
    > everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted and umounted (like the
    > old
    > Macintosh System with SCSI). I'm using Sarge and it doesn't automatically
    > mount USB devices when you plug them in and I can manually mount some
    > devices, but not others (I would happily enrole in any "I hate USB" club).
    > I've tried SuSE 9.1: this is dreadful, automatically but unreliably
    > mounting
    > stuff unter strange names and leaving old zombie folders about in /mnt.
    >
    > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > somebody
    > sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand resource
    > on
    > present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?
    >
    > Theo Schmidt
    >


    I'm glad I'm not the only one struggeling with this issue. I condisider
    myself primarily a desktop-user, but since I run and really like debian, I
    guess I also want to know whats goin on behind the gui. I'm happy with the
    way the KDE Applet "Storage Media" works for me. I now have fstab entries
    that work for my three USB devices, one pendrive and two external HDs (one
    vfat, one ext3). The applet lets me mount and remove USB devices. When a
    device is inserted it appears in the Panel. This also works for the CD
    drive. It probably won't work if a device is plugged in which does not end
    up, in my case, on sda or sda5. Then I either have to edit fstab for the
    new device or some other mechanism is necessary.

    Below is what I have on my computer.

    /dev/hdc /media/cdrom0 iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0
    /dev/sda /media/usb auto user,noauto 0 0
    /dev/sda5 /media/usb5 auto user,noauto 0 0

    Linux acer 2.6.11-1-686 #1 Mon Jun 20 22:00:38 MDT 2005 i686 GNU/Linux

    ii kdelibs 3.4.1-1 core libraries from the official KDE
    release
    ii kdelibs-bin 3.4.1-1 core binaries for all KDE applications
    ii kdelibs-data 3.4.1-1 core shared data for all KDE applications
    ii kdelibs4 3.4.1-1 core libraries for all KDE applications
    ii kdebase 3.4.1-1 base components from the official KDE
    releas
    ii kdebase-bin 3.4.1-1 core binaries for the KDE base module
    ii kdebase-data 3.4.1-1 shared data files for the KDE base module
    ii kdebase-kio-pl 3.4.1-1 core I/O slaves for KDE
    ii mount 2.12p-4 Tools for mounting and manipulating
    filesyst
    ii pmount 0.8-2 mount removable devices as normal user





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  9. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Automounter_in_KDE?=

    > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > ...
    > > How about mount-on-demand?

    > ...
    > > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    > >
    > > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > > the majority of the population (;-)).

    >
    > It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently
    > happening
    > transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux. I would like to
    > have a system where either everything is mounted and umounted manually or
    > everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted and umounted (like the
    > old
    > Macintosh System with SCSI). I'm using Sarge and it doesn't automatically
    > mount USB devices when you plug them in and I can manually mount some
    > devices, but not others (I would happily enrole in any "I hate USB" club).
    > I've tried SuSE 9.1: this is dreadful, automatically but unreliably
    > mounting
    > stuff unter strange names and leaving old zombie folders about in /mnt.
    >
    > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > somebody
    > sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand resource
    > on
    > present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?
    >
    > Theo Schmidt
    >


    I'm glad I'm not the only one struggeling with this issue. I condisider
    myself primarily a desktop-user, but since I run and really like debian, I
    guess I also want to know whats goin on behind the gui. I'm happy with the
    way the KDE Applet "Storage Media" works for me. I now have fstab entries
    that work for my three USB devices, one pendrive and two external HDs (one
    vfat, one ext3). The applet lets me mount and remove USB devices. When a
    device is inserted it appears in the Panel. This also works for the CD
    drive. It probably won't work if a device is plugged in which does not end
    up, in my case, on sda or sda5. Then I either have to edit fstab for the
    new device or some other mechanism is necessary.

    Below is what I have on my computer.

    /dev/hdc /media/cdrom0 iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0
    /dev/sda /media/usb auto user,noauto 0 0
    /dev/sda5 /media/usb5 auto user,noauto 0 0

    Linux acer 2.6.11-1-686 #1 Mon Jun 20 22:00:38 MDT 2005 i686 GNU/Linux

    ii kdelibs 3.4.1-1 core libraries from the official KDE
    release
    ii kdelibs-bin 3.4.1-1 core binaries for all KDE applications
    ii kdelibs-data 3.4.1-1 core shared data for all KDE applications
    ii kdelibs4 3.4.1-1 core libraries for all KDE applications
    ii kdebase 3.4.1-1 base components from the official KDE
    releas
    ii kdebase-bin 3.4.1-1 core binaries for the KDE base module
    ii kdebase-data 3.4.1-1 shared data files for the KDE base module
    ii kdebase-kio-pl 3.4.1-1 core I/O slaves for KDE
    ii mount 2.12p-4 Tools for mounting and manipulating
    filesyst
    ii pmount 0.8-2 mount removable devices as normal user





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    +++ GMX - die erste Adresse fr Mail, Message, More +++

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    +++ GMX - die erste Adresse fr Mail, Message, More +++


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