Automounter in KDE - Debian

This is a discussion on Automounter in KDE - Debian ; On Tuesday 09 August 2005 17:31, Derek Broughton wrote: > I don't _know_ what KDE can or cannot do, so I haven't taken part in this > discussion, but I _do_ know that everything gets mounted as needed, when > ...

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Thread: Automounter in KDE

  1. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Tuesday 09 August 2005 17:31, Derek Broughton wrote:
    > I don't _know_ what KDE can or cannot do, so I haven't taken part in this
    > discussion, but I _do_ know that everything gets mounted as needed, when
    > needed.

    As long as you're using KDE-Apps, you're right (I already said that earlier in
    this thread). But try saving to a USB-Stick out of a non-KDE-App (like
    OpenOffice.org) without clicking the icon on the desktop, first.

    Roman

    --
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  2. Re: Automounter in KDE

    > > The system should be able to unmount the device regardsless of which
    > > resources are using it when you press the eject button. You know best if
    > > you want the disk out or not, the system shouldn't restrict you in doing
    > > this.


    > I think this choice shouldn't be made by you or by me, but by every single
    > user. And i think locking the drives by default is ok.


    How about mount-on-demand?

    > > Same thing with usb storage. The system should auto-unmount the device if
    > > you unplug it.


    > And how's that supposed to work? Once you removed the stick it's already away.
    > Your computer cannot finish pending operations like clearing it's buffers.
    > You HAVE to umount it before removing. Even on other Systems that's the way
    > to go.


    > Well, you could mount the drive in sync-mode (beginning with 2.6.12 it should
    > also work with FAT. But remember we're talking about flash-drives. They only
    > can be flashed limited times. If you use sync, every operation will
    > immediatley trigger writing the data to the usb-stick. Your USB-Stick might
    > become unusable much earlier.


    I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.

    The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    the majority of the population (;-)).



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  3. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Tuesday 09 August 2005 11:18, serja wrote:

    give it a shot, it's really kinda cool. I use it for data recovery and for
    making partition images. I've also used to hard-disk install script on a
    laptop.

    Chris

    > > > Kanotix

    >
    > what kanotix is?
    >
    > ------- Original message -------
    > From: Alex Nordstrom
    > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > Date: 9 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 10:31
    >
    > > On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 04:51, C. Hurschler wrote:
    > > > Kanotix mounts and places links to USB devices on the KDE desktop
    > > > just as one would expect, so it is possible (why shouldn't it be?).
    > > > When the device is removed the link dissapears from the desktop. I
    > > > don't know what packages or scripts or whatever are used to achieve
    > > > this.

    > >
    > > This, apparently:
    > >
    > > http://wiki.kanotix.net/CoMa.php?CoMa=usb-storage
    > >
    > > Note the comment:
    > >
    > > The script mounts every (useful) partition of your device and
    > > creates icons on your KDE desktop. If you pull the stick (or
    > > camera) the device is unmounted with "umount -l" ("lazy", because
    > > the device is already pulled) and the icon disappears.
    > >
    > > *Don't forget to do a sync before (or right mouseclick on the icon
    > > -> action -> save changes)!*
    > >
    > > I wonder how well-documented that is in the Kanotix distribution,
    > > because I saw several posts on the Kanotix forums:
    > >
    > > http://forum.kanotix.net/
    > >
    > > which appeared to be result of users being unaware of their hardware's
    > > missing telepathy circuitry.
    > >
    > > A couple of posters here too seem to be overlooking that simple fact
    > > that you can *never* get the advantages of buffered I/O (speed and
    > > extended hardware life) *and* expect the convenience of yanking
    > > rw-enabled drives out at your leisure without potentially incurring
    > > data loss. That's why working with floppy disks is generally somewhat
    > > faster under most Linux distributions than under MS Windows, but
    > > requiring manual unmounting.


    --
    Dr.-Ing. C. Hurschler
    Bodenstedtstr. 13
    30173 Hannover
    0172-5940909

  4. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    ....
    > How about mount-on-demand?

    ....
    > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    >
    > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > the majority of the population (;-)).


    It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently happening
    transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux. I would like to
    have a system where either everything is mounted and umounted manually or
    everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted and umounted (like the old
    Macintosh System with SCSI). I'm using Sarge and it doesn't automatically
    mount USB devices when you plug them in and I can manually mount some
    devices, but not others (I would happily enrole in any "I hate USB" club).
    I've tried SuSE 9.1: this is dreadful, automatically but unreliably mounting
    stuff unter strange names and leaving old zombie folders about in /mnt.

    This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could somebody
    sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand resource on
    present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?

    Theo Schmidt


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  5. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Hi,
    Theo Schmidt a ιcrit :
    [...]

    > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could somebody
    > sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand resource on
    > present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?


    I'm using usb key and camera (mass storage mode), they are seen as
    /dev/sdAX where A is a letter from a to z depend of number of your
    plugged devices and X a number corresponding to your partition (often 1).

    For exemple If I plug an usb key, the command: cat /proc/partitions show
    a /dev/sda1 device, if I plug another key or a camera, th e device will
    be /dev/sdb1 and so on.

    I've this lines in my /etc/fstab

    /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    /dev/sdb1 /mnt/sdb1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    /dev/sdd1 /mnt/sdd1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0

    And I have created 4 icons on the desktop so that I can mount, umount
    keys and cameras.

    This is relatively simple to configure and works relatively well.
    The problem is that kernel reminds sometime the name of the device, If
    you first plug a key, its device will be sda1, then if you deplug it and
    plug another one, It could be sdb1 or sda1 ...

    Hope it helps you.

    Jody


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  6. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Theo Schmidt wrote:

    > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > ...
    > > How about mount-on-demand?

    > ...
    > > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    > >
    > > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > > the majority of the population (;-)).

    >
    > It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently happening
    > transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux.


    I use mtools for USB storage devices. No mounting/unmounting is needed at
    all with this approach, and it is robust against sudden removal of the
    media. In my ~/.mtoolsrc:

    # External USB floppy

    drive a:
    file="/dev/sda"

    # USB Pendrive

    drive u:
    file="/dev/sda1"

    Then I can use "mdir a:", "mcopy file u:", etc, in the shell. In KDE, I
    can use the "floppy:/" ioslave to access these.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| A proud member of the reality-based community.
    -| http://www.haucks.org/


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  7. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 09:51, Theo Schmidt wrote:
    > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > I would
    > like to have a system where either everything is mounted and umounted
    > manually or everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted and umounted
    > (like the old Macintosh System with SCSI).


    I achieve reliable auto-mounting (though not umounting) using this script.
    It's more a proof-of-concept and still lacks many features, but maybe someone
    is interested:
    http://vader.dnsalias.com/~roman/fil...ounter.tar.bz2

    Regards
    Roman

    --
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    Because 31 oct == 25 dec
    -- seen on the net


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  8. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Jody Noury wrote:

    > Hi,
    > Theo Schmidt a ιcrit :
    > [...]
    >
    >> This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    >> somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    >> resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?

    >
    > I'm using usb key and camera (mass storage mode), they are seen as
    > /dev/sdAX where A is a letter from a to z depend of number of your
    > plugged devices and X a number corresponding to your partition (often 1).
    >
    > For exemple If I plug an usb key, the command: cat /proc/partitions show
    > a /dev/sda1 device, if I plug another key or a camera, th e device will
    > be /dev/sdb1 and so on.
    >
    > I've this lines in my /etc/fstab
    >
    > /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    > /dev/sdb1 /mnt/sdb1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    > /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    > /dev/sdd1 /mnt/sdd1 vfat noauto,users,exec 0 0
    >
    > And I have created 4 icons on the desktop so that I can mount, umount
    > keys and cameras.
    >
    > This is relatively simple to configure and works relatively well.
    > The problem is that kernel reminds sometime the name of the device, If
    > you first plug a key, its device will be sda1, then if you deplug it and
    > plug another one, It could be sdb1 or sda1 ...


    Easy enough to fix with udev... Find some unique key for the device with
    udevinfo (USB keys have product names and serial numbers, I would expect
    cameras to have the same), create a udev rule assigning a synonym such as
    "usbkey" or "canonXY", and change your fstab to mount /dev/usbkey
    and /dev/canonXY.
    --
    derek


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  9. Re: Automounter in KDE

    > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    > resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?

    I think developers from kernel.org not really support the idea of automounting
    and they definitely not support the unplugging / hardware eject of removable
    media thingies without umounting them.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: Theo Schmidt
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 09:51
    > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > ...
    >
    > > How about mount-on-demand?

    >
    > ...
    >
    > > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    > >
    > > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > > the majority of the population (;-)).

    >
    > It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently
    > happening transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux. I would
    > like to have a system where either everything is mounted and umounted
    > manually or everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted and umounted
    > (like the old Macintosh System with SCSI). I'm using Sarge and it doesn't
    > automatically mount USB devices when you plug them in and I can manually
    > mount some devices, but not others (I would happily enrole in any "I hate
    > USB" club). I've tried SuSE 9.1: this is dreadful, automatically but
    > unreliably mounting stuff unter strange names and leaving old zombie
    > folders about in /mnt.
    >
    > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    > resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?
    >
    > Theo Schmidt


  10. Re: Automounter in KDE

    BTW I haven't tested it with usb devices (actually my usb scanner waren't
    detected by it), but with removable media ivman work just fine.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: serja
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 16:13
    > > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > > somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    > > resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?

    >
    > I think developers from kernel.org not really support the idea of
    > automounting and they definitely not support the unplugging / hardware
    > eject of removable media thingies without umounting them.
    >
    > ------- Original message -------
    > From: Theo Schmidt
    > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 09:51
    >
    > > Am Dienstag, 9. August 2005 20.45 schrieb Tony Godshall:
    > > ...
    > >
    > > > How about mount-on-demand?

    > >
    > > ...
    > >
    > > > I find it best to mount writable removables with -o sync.
    > > > That way apps finish saving when they appear to finish saving,
    > > > which limits damage by novice users and dont-care-about-the-
    > > > technical-details users and old-hand-who-just-forgot users.
    > > >
    > > > The union of the above sets of users, oddly, appears to encompass
    > > > the majority of the population (;-)).

    > >
    > > It certainly includes me. I am rather confused about the apparently
    > > happening transition from manual mounting to automounting in Linux. I
    > > would like to have a system where either everything is mounted and
    > > umounted manually or everything is automatically and *reliably* mounted
    > > and umounted (like the old Macintosh System with SCSI). I'm using Sarge
    > > and it doesn't automatically mount USB devices when you plug them in and
    > > I can manually mount some devices, but not others (I would happily enrole
    > > in any "I hate USB" club). I've tried SuSE 9.1: this is dreadful,
    > > automatically but unreliably mounting stuff unter strange names and
    > > leaving old zombie folders about in /mnt.
    > >
    > > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > > somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    > > resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?
    > >
    > > Theo Schmidt


  11. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:22 pm, serja wrote:
    > > GNU doesn't have a problem with removable media. Linux, the kernel,
    > > sucks for removable media. And until the kernel devs get out of the
    > > 1970s, that's not going to change.

    >
    > but the problem is that GNU is nothing without Linux kernel.
    > And things with removable media should be done on kernel side.


    I won't argue the first point. I was merely clarifying that the problem is
    not with "Linux the system", how 99% of the world uses the word "Linux", but
    with "Linux the kernel", the specific piece of software available on
    kernel.org.

    --
    Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

    "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
    of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
    Jefferson


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  12. Re: Automounter in KDE

    read carefully - I wrote: "Linux kernel" not Linux OS
    99,9% of GNU software build around the Linux kernel, so those applications
    will be useless without Linux kernel.
    Everything depend on developers from kernel.org. If they finally drop the
    multiuser OS theory, then probably things will change.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: Larry Garfield
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 20:45
    > On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:22 pm, serja wrote:
    > > > GNU doesn't have a problem with removable media. Linux, the kernel,
    > > > sucks for removable media. And until the kernel devs get out of the
    > > > 1970s, that's not going to change.

    > >
    > > but the problem is that GNU is nothing without Linux kernel.
    > > And things with removable media should be done on kernel side.

    >
    > I won't argue the first point. I was merely clarifying that the problem is
    > not with "Linux the system", how 99% of the world uses the word "Linux",
    > but with "Linux the kernel", the specific piece of software available on
    > kernel.org.
    >
    > --
    > Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    > larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012
    >
    > "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    > exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    > which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    > himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
    > possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."
    > -- Thomas Jefferson


  13. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Ah. So you think kernel developers should drop the multiuser OS theory. Interesting point.

    You may want to give DOS a try.

    br. Chr.

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 20:58, serja wrote:
    > read carefully - I wrote: "Linux kernel" not Linux OS
    > 99,9% of GNU software build around the Linux kernel, so those applications
    > will be useless without Linux kernel.
    > Everything depend on developers from kernel.org. If they finally drop the
    > multiuser OS theory, then probably things will change.
    >
    > ------- Original message -------
    > From: Larry Garfield
    > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 20:45
    > > On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:22 pm, serja wrote:
    > > > > GNU doesn't have a problem with removable media. Linux, the kernel,
    > > > > sucks for removable media. And until the kernel devs get out of the
    > > > > 1970s, that's not going to change.
    > > >
    > > > but the problem is that GNU is nothing without Linux kernel.
    > > > And things with removable media should be done on kernel side.

    > >
    > > I won't argue the first point. I was merely clarifying that the problem is
    > > not with "Linux the system", how 99% of the world uses the word "Linux",
    > > but with "Linux the kernel", the specific piece of software available on
    > > kernel.org.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    > > larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012
    > >
    > > "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    > > exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    > > which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    > > himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
    > > possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."
    > > -- Thomas Jefferson

    >
    >


  14. Re: Automounter in KDE

    About multiuser OS theory I've read in suse faq:
    Q: why can't I simply remove the CD from drive without umount it first?
    A: because it's a multiuser OS and if you simply remove the CD without
    umounting it first the other users can't read it!
    ***
    Isn't it an excuse rather that theory?
    And whats happen if I umount it first and that remove? For other users the
    result will be the same.

    > You may want to give DOS a try.

    I've already did it in 1995 or so

    ------- Original message -------
    From: Christian Surlykke
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 21:01
    > Ah. So you think kernel developers should drop the multiuser OS theory.
    > Interesting point.
    >
    > You may want to give DOS a try.
    >
    > br. Chr.
    >
    > On Thursday 11 August 2005 20:58, serja wrote:
    > > read carefully - I wrote: "Linux kernel" not Linux OS
    > > 99,9% of GNU software build around the Linux kernel, so those
    > > applications will be useless without Linux kernel.
    > > Everything depend on developers from kernel.org. If they finally drop the
    > > multiuser OS theory, then probably things will change.
    > >
    > > ------- Original message -------
    > > From: Larry Garfield
    > > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > > Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 20:45
    > >
    > > > On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:22 pm, serja wrote:
    > > > > > GNU doesn't have a problem with removable media. Linux, the
    > > > > > kernel, sucks for removable media. And until the kernel devs get
    > > > > > out of the 1970s, that's not going to change.
    > > > >
    > > > > but the problem is that GNU is nothing without Linux kernel.
    > > > > And things with removable media should be done on kernel side.
    > > >
    > > > I won't argue the first point. I was merely clarifying that the
    > > > problem is not with "Linux the system", how 99% of the world uses the
    > > > word "Linux", but with "Linux the kernel", the specific piece of
    > > > software available on kernel.org.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    > > > larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012
    > > >
    > > > "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    > > > exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
    > > > idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
    > > > it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
    > > > possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of
    > > > it." -- Thomas Jefferson


  15. Re: Automounter in KDE

    > I've already did it in 1995 or so
    Sorry it was win'95, DOS was in '89.

    ------- Original message -------
    From: serja
    To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 21:19
    > About multiuser OS theory I've read in suse faq:
    > Q: why can't I simply remove the CD from drive without umount it first?
    > A: because it's a multiuser OS and if you simply remove the CD without
    > umounting it first the other users can't read it!
    > ***
    > Isn't it an excuse rather that theory?
    > And whats happen if I umount it first and that remove? For other users the
    > result will be the same.
    >
    > > You may want to give DOS a try.

    >
    > I've already did it in 1995 or so
    >
    > ------- Original message -------
    > From: Christian Surlykke
    > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 21:01
    >
    > > Ah. So you think kernel developers should drop the multiuser OS theory.
    > > Interesting point.
    > >
    > > You may want to give DOS a try.
    > >
    > > br. Chr.
    > >
    > > On Thursday 11 August 2005 20:58, serja wrote:
    > > > read carefully - I wrote: "Linux kernel" not Linux OS
    > > > 99,9% of GNU software build around the Linux kernel, so those
    > > > applications will be useless without Linux kernel.
    > > > Everything depend on developers from kernel.org. If they finally drop
    > > > the multiuser OS theory, then probably things will change.
    > > >
    > > > ------- Original message -------
    > > > From: Larry Garfield
    > > > To: debian-kde@lists.debian.org
    > > > Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    > > > Date: 11 αΧΗΥΣΤ 2005 20:45
    > > >
    > > > > On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:22 pm, serja wrote:
    > > > > > > GNU doesn't have a problem with removable media. Linux, the
    > > > > > > kernel, sucks for removable media. And until the kernel devs get
    > > > > > > out of the 1970s, that's not going to change.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > but the problem is that GNU is nothing without Linux kernel.
    > > > > > And things with removable media should be done on kernel side.
    > > > >
    > > > > I won't argue the first point. I was merely clarifying that the
    > > > > problem is not with "Linux the system", how 99% of the world uses the
    > > > > word "Linux", but with "Linux the kernel", the specific piece of
    > > > > software available on kernel.org.
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    > > > > larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012
    > > > >
    > > > > "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    > > > > exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
    > > > > idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
    > > > > it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
    > > > > the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess
    > > > > himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson


  16. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 21:19, serja wrote:
    > About multiuser OS theory I've read in suse faq:
    > Q: why can't I simply remove the CD from drive without umount it first?
    > A: because it's a multiuser OS and if you simply remove the CD without
    > umounting it first the other users can't read it!
    > ***
    > Isn't it an excuse rather that theory?
    > And whats happen if I umount it first and that remove? For other users the
    > result will be the same.


    No. If you successfully unmount a filesystem it implies that nobody else was
    using it at that time.
    If you remove a data medium without having its filesystem unmounted first can
    lead to application crashed or worse (data loss).

    A possible correct behaviour would be to send an unmount request to all
    process currently using the filesystem/medium in question on eject requests
    and remove it when it can be savely unmounted.

    Cheers,
    Kevin

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  17. Re: Automounter in KDE

    Am Donnerstag, 11. August 2005 21.32 schrieb Kevin Krammer:
    ....
    > A possible correct behaviour would be to send an unmount request to all
    > process currently using the filesystem/medium in question on eject requests
    > and remove it when it can be savely unmounted.


    I suppose this is what the eject command is supposed to do. In Sarge I havn't
    got the eject command to work a single time yet. Often it isn't even possible
    to umount a CD-ROM: "device is being used", even when all programs using the
    CD are terminated. This is a real pain, as it is often only possible to
    remove the CD-ROM after winding down the whole system. A solution was given I
    believe on this list a while ago, but it didn't work (sysctl something).
    Unfortunately it is small usability bugs like these which really turn newbies
    off and back to other systems where these mount problems don't seem to occur
    (but other ones :-)

    Theo Schmidt


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  18. Re: Automounter in KDE

    From: serja
    Subject: Re: Automounter in KDE
    Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:13:41 +0200

    > > This has been a long thread which has left me none the wiser. Could
    > > somebody sum up the present conclusions or point to an easy-to-understand
    > > resource on present KDE, Debian or Linux mounting philosophy?

    > I think developers from kernel.org not really support the idea of automounting
    > and they definitely not support the unplugging / hardware eject of removable
    > media thingies without umounting them.


    Have you tried adding the umount command in the file pointed
    to by $REMOVER when the hotplug scripts are called on the
    plug-in event?


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  19. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 02:19 pm, serja wrote:
    > About multiuser OS theory I've read in suse faq:
    > Q: why can't I simply remove the CD from drive without umount it first?
    > A: because it's a multiuser OS and if you simply remove the CD without
    > umounting it first the other users can't read it!
    > ***
    > Isn't it an excuse rather that theory?
    > And whats happen if I umount it first and that remove? For other users the
    > result will be the same.


    SuSE is only giving you half the story. Even in a single-user environment,
    you have to mount and unmount if you have write-behind caching[1] enabled,
    which it is by default on all drives under Linux.

    It's not unmounting that bothers me, though. It's mounting in the first
    place. That has nada to do with single- vs. multi-user OS design, and
    everything to do with kernel developers who haven't realized that the 70s are
    over and not everything is either a fixed drive or badly-implemented network
    share.

    [1] Wire-behind caching is where the OS queues up stuff to write to disk, then
    tells you that it's done before it actually is. It then gets to actually
    writing the data out when it gets around to it, which may well be after
    you've given it a dozen more write commands for the same disk, which overall
    saves time. If the device disappears or the system crashes before it gets
    around to it, though, you lose data. The "sync" command force-flushes all of
    those caches for various disks, and journaling file systems are intended, in
    part, to address the potential for badness when that happens.

    --
    Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
    larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

    "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
    exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
    which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
    himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
    of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
    Jefferson


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  20. Re: Automounter in KDE

    On Thursday 11 August 2005 03:32 pm, Kevin Krammer wrote:
    > No. If you successfully unmount a filesystem it implies that nobody else
    > was using it at that time.
    > If you remove a data medium without having its filesystem unmounted first
    > can lead to application crashed or worse (data loss).
    >
    > A possible correct behaviour would be to send an unmount request to all
    > process currently using the filesystem/medium in question on eject requests
    > and remove it when it can be savely unmounted.


    Thanks! Not sure that's the perfect solution, but it sure sounds like a step
    in the right direction--thinking of a way to accomplish something rather than
    reasons to not accomplish something. Also, in terms of numbers, I wonder how
    many Linux systems have a single (vs. multiple) real (i.e., human) users?
    Maybe we need a single user and a multiuser Linux (OS and kernel?)?

    regards,
    Randy Kramer


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