RE: iTunes & Linux (Debian) - Debian

This is a discussion on RE: iTunes & Linux (Debian) - Debian ; Frohliche Neue Jahr Michelle! (couldn't resist, my German is very rusty...excuse the absence of umlauts, was being lazy). If you read Apple's fine print on their warranty terms and condition (which are presented to you when you try and book ...

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Thread: RE: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

  1. RE: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

    Frohliche Neue Jahr Michelle! (couldn't resist, my German is very
    rusty...excuse the absence of umlauts, was being lazy).

    If you read Apple's fine print on their warranty terms and condition
    (which are presented to you when you try and book a warranty repair on
    their website), several things are apparent.

    1. You must pay AU $20 or so dollars for shipping back to them. Now, I
    can ship this iPod mini back to Apple much cheaper than that...under the
    Trade Practices Act, it is ILLEGAL for a manufacturer to charge more for
    shipping than what it is in reality. Like most big companies world
    wide, it seems that Apple seems to be immune to laws that affect the
    rest of us mere mortals...

    2. Apple's fine print also says that they reserve the right to charge
    you AU $100 if they cannot fault the unit. Now, working in the
    industry, not all faults are easy to find. Intermittent faults in
    electronic devices are very common, and are very hard to spot, let alone
    trace.

    I was not prepared to pay Apple's 'sign this warranty agreement and
    agree to our unfair terms and services or don't get your iPod fixed'. I
    chose the latter.

    The iPod minis batteries are deliberately designed by Apple to have a
    very short finite lifespan. Worse, the replacement battery is so
    heavily overcharged by Apple as to make it better to just buy a new
    unit...this is very bad practice imho. Furthermore, it's not good for
    the environment as it encourages a throw away society. Replacement
    batteries for Apple iPod minis are available for much cheaper from the
    Internet etc, but repairing the units is particularly tricky for the
    average person.

    Most people do not read the fine print; they just click and accept
    whatever license flashes up on the screen etc. I like to read what I'm
    agreeing to.

    I was going to file an official complaint with the ACCC over this, but
    in the end I said **** it. It wasn't worth my time, anger or brain
    power to do so, especially when the system is designed to protect these
    bastards and screw the consumers. Our government system, as well as
    that of most 'modern' developed countries are despicable, pandering to
    corporate business at the expense of everything else. I prefer not to
    try and worry too much about these things now, because in the end, 95%
    of our population are just dumb zombies without a single original
    thought. This is, of course, what governments want - mindless zombies
    are much easier to control than people like me.

    Cheers,

    Dave

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
    matter.
    --Martin Luther King Jr.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michelle Konzack [mailto:linux4michelle@freenet.de]
    Sent: Tuesday, 9 January 2007 7:57 PM
    To: debian-laptop@lists.debian.org
    Subject: Re: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

    Hello David and *,

    first of all Happy new Year!

    Am 2006-12-28 08:29:05, schrieb David Pastern:
    > seriously looking at buying one. My iPod Mini died in the ass after
    > around 9 months of usage and I was NOT prepared to accept Apple's
    > illegal warranty agreement. Sadly, being the lazy bastard that I am,

    I

    I am courious about what you mean...
    Can you explain please?

    Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


    --
    Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
    ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
    Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
    50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi
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  2. =?iso-2022-jp?B?UmU6IGlUdW5lcyAmIExpbnV4IChEZWJpYW4pIA==?=

    Happy new year to all,

    I don\'t have an iPod for both my own personal reasons (similar to yours)
    and because I am not happy with the functionality, it is too limited for
    my long-term use prospects (I waited over 5 years until a laptop arrived
    that had what I would consider long-term use prospects).

    > that of most \'modern\' developed countries are despicable, pandering to
    > corporate business at the expense of everything else. I prefer not to
    > try and worry too much about these things now, because in the end, 95%
    > of our population are just dumb zombies without a single original
    > thought. This is, of course, what governments want - mindless zombies
    > are much easier to control than people like me.


    Well, I have interesting and original thoughts every day. Sadly, the
    interesting ones are not original, and the original ones are not very
    interesting.

    Regards, Gernot

    --
    Gernot Hassenpflug
    Find out how something works, to know its functionality and limits


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  3. Re: [OT] Warranty laws WAS: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

    Johannes Wiedersich writes:

    > I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, in Germany the legal situation
    > is that all these agreements are void, unless the company can prove that
    > you approved them _before_ you bought the item. For example anything of
    > the fine print about M$'s license agreements that is not clearly printed
    > on the outside of the box or explicitly agreed by you before buying your
    > laptop etc. is simply void. (Basic stuff like copyright is granted even
    > if not explicitly agreed, but *not* the fine print!)


    Is this right? Can we get some validation of this? It's excellent!

    I live in the UK. If this is an accurate summary of German Law I will
    definitely join a campaign to make it EU law!


    --
    Nic Ferrier
    http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs


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  4. Re: [OT] Warranty laws WAS: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

    Nic James Ferrier wrote:
    > Johannes Wiedersich writes:
    >
    >> I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, in Germany the legal situation
    >> is that all these agreements are void, unless the company can prove that
    >> you approved them _before_ you bought the item. For example anything of
    >> the fine print about M$'s license agreements that is not clearly printed
    >> on the outside of the box or explicitly agreed by you before buying your
    >> laptop etc. is simply void. (Basic stuff like copyright is granted even
    >> if not explicitly agreed, but *not* the fine print!)

    >
    > Is this right? Can we get some validation of this? It's excellent!


    I have some validation, unfortunately only in German.

    http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/
    http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bg...6BJNG023401377

    http://irights.info/index.php?id=357

    http://www.bmj.de/files/-/507/UrhG.pdf

    According to wikipedia
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endbenutzer-Lizenzvertrag
    those licenses are invalid in *Euprope* as far as they are not displayed
    before purchase. (Note that for programs that are downloaded, different
    (laxer) rules apply than for those bought on 'hard media'.)

    Some more details:

    - In Germany it is illegal to forbid a backup copy of any computer
    program, as long as it is necessary to ensure future use of the program
    (the only possible way for a software company to circumvent this, would
    be to give at least two copies of their software to the customer. But
    even then the customer would be allowed to make a backup copy, when one
    of those gets damaged. )

    - Even if the customer is informed about license conditions before
    purchase, those parts are void that are not clearly written or that are
    to the 'sole disadvantage of the customer' or those that infringe other
    legal rights of the customer (including warranty). (This is not really
    disambiguous and interestingly there are no high court decisions about
    this regarding EULAs.)

    - In Germany, it is legal to decompile a program, as long as one has a
    legal copy of it and as long as the decompilation of the program is only
    used to ensure the correct interaction of the program with a different
    program. Any license condition refusing this is void (69e UrhG).

    - It is illegal to limit or forbid the (second hand or first hand) sale
    of a program. There is a high court decision that OEM copies of software
    can be sold without any accompanying hardware both from commercial
    sellers and private ones, even if the EULA forbids this (a shop sold
    OEM-Versions of Microsft software; M$ tried to sue and lost). It is also
    illegal to forbid the private reselling of educational versions of
    software to the general public.


    IANAL, regards,

    Johannes


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  5. Re: [OT] Warranty laws WAS: iTunes & Linux (Debian)

    {Hallo,Salut,Hello} Johannes,

    Your E-Mail was a hammer and is archived!
    Some of this was not known to me...

    Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
    Michelle Konzack



    --
    Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
    ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
    Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
    50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi
    0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)

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