Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam - Debian

This is a discussion on Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam - Debian ; On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 23:32, Matthew Sullivan wrote: > If you want to pay to your favorite government registered charity, > and SORBS can confirm the receipt is not a fake, then you can pay > to them. Answer a ...

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Thread: Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam

  1. Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam

    On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 23:32, Matthew Sullivan wrote:
    > If you want to pay to your favorite government registered charity,
    > and SORBS can confirm the receipt is not a fake, then you can pay
    > to them.


    Answer a hypothetical please Mat.

    The Alice Springs Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
    Kittens has one PC, which gets a virus, and sends a single
    spam before being wiped and reinstalled. SORBS lists its
    IP. The Alice Springs Society for the Prevention of Cruelty
    to Kittens sends you proof of a $50 donation to the
    Australian Red Cross, wiping out half its annual budget,
    and you delist its IP.

    Mr Foobar, the next Scott Richter, sends out a billion spams
    per day and rakes in millions of dollars. SORBS lists his IP.
    Mr Foobar then sends you proof of a $50 donation to the
    Australian Red Cross.

    Do you delist Mr Foobar's IP or do you break your binding
    unilateral contract with him?

    --Mike Bird


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  2. Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam

    Mike Bird wrote:
    > The Alice Springs Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
    > Kittens has one PC, which gets a virus


    THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEBIAN ISPs!

    PLEASE take it offline.


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  3. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:27:29 +0800, Shane Chrisp
    wrote:

    >> I don't like my TTL set at 12 hours. And I don't have time to argue
    >> with wackos.


    > Thats your choice of course. Just as is thier choice not to delist if
    > your not prepared to do what is asked.


    Any fool can ask for anything. That doesn't mean it's reasonable or
    wise.

  4. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 22:32 -0400, John Kelly wrote:
    > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:27:29 +0800, Shane Chrisp
    > wrote:
    >
    > >> I don't like my TTL set at 12 hours. And I don't have time to argue
    > >> with wackos.

    >
    > > Thats your choice of course. Just as is thier choice not to delist if
    > > your not prepared to do what is asked.

    >
    > Any fool can ask for anything. That doesn't mean it's reasonable or
    > wise.


    I find it amazing that those who have problems are generally those who
    thinks the world of 'privately owned, connected networks' owes them
    something. SORBS is doing something some like and use and others dont
    like and dont use. They are not forcing anything upon anyone, the mail
    admins do so at thier own choice.


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  5. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:43:59 +0800, Shane Chrisp
    wrote:

    > SORBS is ... not forcing anything upon anyone, the mail admins do
    > so at thier own choice.


    Choice? More likely ignorance and fear. As more people become
    educated about SORBS, I believe fewer will use it.


    www.dnsstuff.com says:

    > NEVER BLOCK WITH: ... SORBS-DUHL (these knowingly list IPs that do not
    > meet listing criteria).


    That's a bad reputation to have.

  6. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Tuesday 25 July 2006 19:43, Shane Chrisp wrote:
    > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 22:32 -0400, John Kelly wrote:
    > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:27:29 +0800, Shane Chrisp
    > >
    > > wrote:
    > > >> I don't like my TTL set at 12 hours. And I don't have time to argue
    > > >> with wackos.
    > > >
    > > > Thats your choice of course. Just as is thier choice not to delist if
    > > > your not prepared to do what is asked.

    > >
    > > Any fool can ask for anything. That doesn't mean it's reasonable or
    > > wise.

    >
    > I find it amazing that those who have problems are generally those who
    > thinks the world of 'privately owned, connected networks' owes them
    > something. SORBS is doing something some like and use and others dont
    > like and dont use. They are not forcing anything upon anyone, the mail
    > admins do so at thier own choice.


    Want to have your mail discarded everytime you drop your TTLs for a
    renumber? Didn't think so.

    SORBS can live in its own little world of insane values if it wishes.

    However, the Internet is a cooperative effort. I've learnt a lot
    from other engineers and I figure some have maybe learned a bit from
    me too. It is important that responsible ISPs with information about
    SORBS help to educate responsible ISPs who may assume SORBS is a
    useful tool like other RBLs.

    At times when we've been listed by SORBS we've encountered a problem
    with ISPs using SORBS. But not often - maybe once per month. There
    can't be very many SORBS users left. A SORBS listing is certainly
    annoying but it's not fatal.

    Friends don't let friends use SORBS.

    --Mike Bird


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  7. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    Shane Chrisp wrote:
    > I find it amazing that those who have problems are generally those who
    > thinks the world of 'privately owned, connected networks' owes them
    > something. SORBS is doing something some like and use and others dont
    > like and dont use. They are not forcing anything upon anyone, the mail
    > admins do so at thier own choice.


    It is those mail admins that YOU often have no control over.

    Here in Australia I have found that Optus and Westnet at least use SORBS [or
    they did so recently]; I am not sure if either of these has dropped the use
    of SORBS, but it was a hassle to deal with.

    A thired ISP went in to bat for me and had my STATIC IP delisted only to
    have it relisted days later. I took the easy path and added an rDNS, but
    this has only become necessary after nearly 3 years of running my mail
    server and only due to SORBS.

    More people would benefit if domain owners ensured that they had valid SPF
    checking, although that isn't perfect either, but it is better than using
    SORBS.

    Kind Regards

    AndrewM

    Andrew McGlashan
    Broadband Solutions now including VoIP 1300 85 3804

    Mobile: 04 2574 1827 Fax: 03 8790 1224

    Affinity Vision Australia Pty Ltd
    www.affinityvision.com.au
    www.affinityvision.net/adsl/

    In Case of Emergency -- http://www.affinityvision.com.au/ice.html


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  8. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:46:58 +1000, "Rhett Kipps"
    wrote:

    > people may make the argument that no one "forces" SORBS on us


    Half wit logic.


    > other services force us to comply to SORBS because their Network
    > Admins are silly enough to use an RBL that is in no way accurate


    Right, both halves make the whole.

  9. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 08:04:40PM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
    > On Tuesday 25 July 2006 19:43, Shane Chrisp wrote:
    > > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 22:32 -0400, John Kelly wrote:
    > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:27:29 +0800, Shane Chrisp
    > > >
    > > > wrote:
    > > > >> I don't like my TTL set at 12 hours. And I don't have time to argue
    > > > >> with wackos.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thats your choice of course. Just as is thier choice not to delist if
    > > > > your not prepared to do what is asked.
    > > >
    > > > Any fool can ask for anything. That doesn't mean it's reasonable or
    > > > wise.

    > >
    > > I find it amazing that those who have problems are generally those who
    > > thinks the world of 'privately owned, connected networks' owes them
    > > something. SORBS is doing something some like and use and others dont
    > > like and dont use. They are not forcing anything upon anyone, the mail
    > > admins do so at thier own choice.

    >
    > Want to have your mail discarded everytime you drop your TTLs for a
    > renumber? Didn't think so.


    that's bull****. SORBS don't go hunting for low TTLs - they only check
    TTL when they are deciding whether to delist an IP or not. i.e. it is a
    delisting criterion, NOT a listing criterion.

    but facts aren't very popular with you anti-SORBS whiners, are they?

    here's a free clue for you: being pissed off doesn't entitle you to make
    up whatever bull**** you think will justify your anger.

    craig

    --
    craig sanders (part time cyborg)


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  10. Re: NEVER USE SORBS

    On Wednesday 26 July 2006 14:54, Craig Sanders wrote:

    > but facts aren't very popular with you anti-SORBS whiners, are they?


    They're less popular with SORBS, or they wouldn't check TTL as a rationale for
    declaring "SPAMMMAMAMER!!!" to begin with.

    --
    Paul Johnson
    Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo@ursine.ca
    Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber

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