Debian Dictionary - Debian

This is a discussion on Debian Dictionary - Debian ; Hi! On the Debian pages, there is a dictionary [1] which is rather empty. While searching, the only translations I found obviously are russian. Everything found in [2] is more than three years old. A newer attempt was made by ...

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  1. Debian Dictionary

    Hi!

    On the Debian pages, there is a dictionary [1] which is rather empty.
    While searching, the only translations I found obviously are russian.
    Everything found in [2] is more than three years old.

    A newer attempt was made by Joe Oppegard in this maling list [3].

    I did not see the message from Joe, when I began to make another
    attempt to collect a multilingual dict, which is now is included in the
    Debian Women Project [4] and in my homepage [5].

    The dictionaries are created out of simple text files and can be edited
    by nearly everyone. Else than with Joe's Dict there is no sgml markup
    in the source files.
    There currently are three sorts of dicts:

    - The acronym dict
    - Translations from and to English languages
    - Monolingual Dictionaries with explanations of words or phrases.
    - the dicts are bound together with links from meanings of the acronyms
    to translations and from translations to glossary entries.

    HTML files and files for dictd are created when running makdictutf8.pl.
    The program can create pages in utf8 only or in the encodings specified
    in the config files for each language.

    To get the alphabetical order, there is a special sorting implemented
    in the perl program. Therefore three files had to be copied from perl
    5.8 package:
    /usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1/Unicode/Collate.pm
    /usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1/Unicode/UCD.pm
    /usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1/Unicode/Collate/keys.txt

    I discussed the dict with one of the Debian Developers. And thought, it
    would be a good idea to include the dict into the debian doc web pages
    as a project at alioth, maybe.

    Main features of the dicts and makedictutf8.pl:
    - The dicts may carry languages, not currently supported in the debian
    home page.
    - The dicts use a rather simple source file format making it possible
    to edit them for nearly everyone, even if they do not know about
    gettext and other things.
    - Files for dictd server are created

    You may read more at the about.html linked from the dictionary index
    page. Source files are in the sub directory "source" in [4] and [5].
    Submitting entries can be done by mailing to the dict admin or using a
    form (only available at www.witch.westfalen.de).

    A dict server carrying the Debian dicts is available at [6]. Please be
    aware that dict protocol is utf-8 and you may need a client supporting
    utf-8.

    Please feel free to comment, ask or suggest.

    If you want to contribute content (translations or other entries)
    please contact me directly or use the web form linked from the about
    page.

    Jutta

    [1] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/dictionary/
    [2]
    http://cvs.debian.org/ddp/manuals.sg...oot=debian-doc
    [3] http://lists.debian.org/debian-doc/2.../msg00092.html
    [4] http://women.alioth.debian.org/dicts/
    [5] http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/
    [6] dict: la-sorciere.de

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  2. Re: Debian Dictionary

    Jutta Wrage wrote:

    First, thx for the nice overview.

    > On the Debian pages, there is a dictionary [1] which is rather empty.
    > While searching, the only translations I found obviously are russian.
    > Everything found in [2] is more than three years old.


    There are other dicts and glossaries as well - e.g.
    http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint#Glossary

    > There currently are three sorts of dicts:


    > - The acronym dict
    > - Translations from and to English languages
    > - Monolingual Dictionaries with explanations of words or phrases.
    > - the dicts are bound together with links from meanings of the acronyms
    > to translations and from translations to glossary entries.


    In a more general view a specific document lives in a hierarchy of
    contexts. E.g. the Debian Installer Manual uses words which are part of

    - common language, e.g. Webster's for English (or Duden for German)
    - computer language, e.g. The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing
    - Unix/Linux language, e.g.
    http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Dictionary/html/
    - Debian language
    - Debian Maintainer language

    During a wording review of a document I check against a hierarchy of
    dicts. This means that every word not found in an upper context needs a
    definition to be understandable.

    > Please feel free to comment, ask or suggest.


    Here my ideas for long term goals:

    1) Agree on uniform format, administration and infrastructure for dicts
    or glossaries within the Debian Project
    E.g. docbook-xml supports AFAIK glossaries.

    2) Develop or collect utilities for conversion in different formats
    like dictd, HTML, TeX, plain text etc.

    3) Have dicts or glossaries of debian documents in a separate file.
    This makes it possible to include such a dictionary in the specific
    document, or include it to other dictionaries as well.

    1) to 3) are not technically difficult. It's more a problem of
    coordination, standardization, discipline, and at least hard work for
    the doc-writers and doc-reviewers.

    Helmut Wollmersdorfer


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  3. Re: Debian Dictionary


    Am Mittwoch, 26.01.05 um 14:50 Uhr schrieb Helmut Wollmersdorfer:

    > - common language, e.g. Webster's for English (or Duden for German)
    > - computer language, e.g. The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing


    These are dicts available for a quick few, for sure.

    > - Unix/Linux language, e.g.
    > http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Dictionary/html/


    Here it needs some more time to find the definition. Not everyone is a
    living address book. And not everyone is online connected to the
    internet, when searching for the meaning of a word or phrase.

    > - Debian language
    > - Debian Maintainer language


    That is something the dicts are for. Debian language is not selef
    explaing.

    > During a wording review of a document I check against a hierarchy of
    > dicts. This means that every word not found in an upper context needs
    > a definition to be understandable.


    What do you mean with "in an upper" context here?

    > 1) Agree on uniform format, administration and infrastructure for dicts
    > or glossaries within the Debian Project
    > E.g. docbook-xml supports AFAIK glossaries.


    Docbook xml is something, that can be produced by a program - I am
    sure, that I can add something like that to the makdict program. But if
    you do not have lots of people willingly to collect dict entries and
    translations, you loose, if you tell, oh, yes, you can collect, but you
    have to deliver as xml file. That is, why I took that special format
    with two colons as a divider.

    > 2) Develop or collect utilities for conversion in different formats
    > like dictd, HTML, TeX, plain text etc.


    Good Idea. But wait with the dicts until someone has done and
    documented?
    The current dict pages seem to be from 1999 or something like that.
    Maybe, there is a reason, that Debian pages still come without any
    content for me there?

    > 3) Have dicts or glossaries of debian documents in a separate file.
    > This makes it possible to include such a dictionary in the specific
    > document, or include it to other dictionaries as well.


    That is something, I do not understand. different files for any
    documentation? All the words, I collected and me and others translated
    came from different sources: Discussions in IRC, mailing lists or even
    the debian web pages or other sources.

    > 1) to 3) are not technically difficult. It's more a problem of
    > coordination, standardization, discipline, and at least hard work for
    > the doc-writers and doc-reviewers.


    That for sure is wrong, if you want many people without much technical
    knowledge collect dict entries, without having one person (or even
    more) with lots of time, putting everything in the right format.

    My idea was making the maintenance as simple as possible. And my
    current experience shows, that I would have got not much more than my
    own translations, if I had not taken the simple source format.

    For sure, I look at things different than a DD. I am looking at it as a
    user, who does not want to search through the web on every not clearly
    known word, acronym or phrase.

    greetings

    Jutta

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    http://witch.muensterland.org


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  4. Re: Debian Dictionary

    Jutta Wrage wrote:
    >
    > Am Mittwoch, 26.01.05 um 14:50 Uhr schrieb Helmut Wollmersdorfer:


    >> - Unix/Linux language, e.g.
    >> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Dictionary/html/


    > Here it needs some more time to find the definition.


    That's only a technical problem. After conversion into dictd it should
    be very fast.

    > What do you mean with "in an upper" context here?


    "more general" would be the better word. The special context "Debian
    Maintainer" is part of the more general context "Debian". E.g. an
    acronym like BTS (Bug Tracking System) is IMHO part of general Debian
    language, and should be included in a general Debian-dict. An acronym
    like NMU (Non Maintainer Upload) is part of Debian-Maintainer language.

    > My idea was making the maintenance as simple as possible. And my current
    > experience shows, that I would have got not much more than my own
    > translations, if I had not taken the simple source format.


    Making things as simple as possible is always a good idea.

    > For sure, I look at things different than a DD. I am looking at it as a
    > user, who does not want to search through the web on every not clearly
    > known word, acronym or phrase.


    I am not a DD. I am experienced in writing and reviewing documentation.
    From this point of view I tried to explain my method of creating
    dict-entries. The condition "not clearly known word" can be defined by a
    formal rule. The goal is the same as your goal: making words understandable.

    Helmut Wollmersdorfer


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