2007/6/4, Alexander Reelsen :
>
> Hi
>
> > On Sun, 2007-06-03 at 12:49 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> >> I'm not really picky about names and would be quite relaxed if the
> >> official
> >> homepage http://www.sturmbahnfahrer.com/ would not support the
> suspicion
> >> by using a font that at least supports the ill feeling. So even if I
> >> don't
> >> want to spekulate about lawyers opinions - it seems to show at least
> bad
> >> taste of the authors.
> > Isn't this just a standard blackletter font?
> Apart from that gothic fonts were forbidden by law in 1941 and replaced by
> latin type of lettering. So the feeling is really nothing more than a
> feeling in this case.


I can't believe that... gothic fonts are forbidden in Germany by law!!!???

Greetings,
Miry

On Monday 04 June 2007 10:38:45 Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 2007/6/4, Alexander Reelsen :
> > Hi
> >
> > > On Sun, 2007-06-03 at 12:49 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > >> I'm not really picky about names and would be quite relaxed if the
> > >> official
> > >> homepage http://www.sturmbahnfahrer.com/ would not support the
> >
> > suspicion
> >
> > >> by using a font that at least supports the ill feeling. So even if I
> > >> don't
> > >> want to spekulate about lawyers opinions - it seems to show at least
> >
> > bad
> >
> > >> taste of the authors.
> > >
> > > Isn't this just a standard blackletter font?
> >
> > Apart from that gothic fonts were forbidden by law in 1941 and replaced
> > by latin type of lettering. So the feeling is really nothing more than a
> > feeling in this case.
>
> I can't believe that... gothic fonts are forbidden in Germany by law!!!???

Haha, certainly not in 1941 :/ Geez. This must be referring to some
non-German juristiction. In Germany, the § 86 of the German
Strafgesetzbuch, titled "Verbreiten von Propagandamitteln verfassungswidriger
Organisationen", is forbidding symbols of organisations that are
non-constitutional http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86.html.

Here an overview about forbidden symbols:
http://www.turnitdown.de/ns-symbole.html
http://www.hagalil.com/deutschland/r...xtremismus.htm

What people are doing is to use kind of similar symbols to circumvent trouble.
There are edit distances in the writing, birth dates, positions of letters in
the alphabeth, ... did you know that the London shirt company Lonsdale has
the letter NSDA in their name? They are selling a real lot for that reason.

Package whatever you want. But value your time. And value your intellect.

Steffen

"Miriam Ruiz" wrote:

> 2007/6/4, Alexander Reelsen :
>
> Hi
>
> > On Sun, 2007-06-03 at 12:49 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> >> I'm not really picky about names and would be quite relaxed if the
> >> official
> >> homepage http://www.sturmbahnfahrer.com/ would not support the suspicion
> >> by using a font that at least supports the ill feeling. So even if I
> >> don't
> >> want to spekulate about lawyers opinions - it seems to show at least bad
> >> taste of the authors.
> > Isn't this just a standard blackletter font?
> Apart from that gothic fonts were forbidden by law in 1941 and replaced by
> latin type of lettering. So the feeling is really nothing more than a
> feeling in this case.
>
> I can't believe that... gothic fonts are forbidden in Germany by law!!!???

Only in the (1000-8) years between 1941 and 1945.

Regards, Frank
--
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Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)

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Hi Miriam,

"Miriam Ruiz" writes:

> 2007/6/4, Alexander Reelsen :
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> > On Sun, 2007-06-03 at 12:49 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
>> >> I'm not really picky about names and would be quite relaxed if the
>> >> official
>> >> homepage http://www.sturmbahnfahrer.com/ would not support the
>> suspicion
>> >> by using a font that at least supports the ill feeling. So even if I
>> >> don't
>> >> want to spekulate about lawyers opinions - it seems to show at least
>> bad
>> >> taste of the authors.
>> > Isn't this just a standard blackletter font?
>> Apart from that gothic fonts were forbidden by law in 1941 and replaced by
>> latin type of lettering. So the feeling is really nothing more than a
>> feeling in this case.
>
>
> I can't believe that... gothic fonts are forbidden in Germany by law!!!???
no, not nowadays. I don't know if such fonts were really forbidden by
written law (whatever that mean for the nazis) at that time. But they
were abolished as 'un-german' around 1940. Nowadays showing nazi
symbols in the public and denying the holocaust is forbidden in
Germany and some other countries.

The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it from
places, where you can train your dog. So a 'Sturmbahnfahrer' is
someone who drives over a 'Sturmbahn'.

I find the name for the game a little bit awkward, too. It may confuse
people as we can see in this discussion. But after having a glance at
the games homepage I wouldn't see any association with nazis.

Michael

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Michael Welle wrote:

> The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it from
> places, where you can train your dog.

Do you have references for that? I've never heard that word[1], but
then I didn't do military service, nor do I keep a dog... Google gives
some hits that point to what you describe (the fitness trail), but also
to online games and actually a photo album by a SS officer. Well.

Regards, Frank

[1] and I'm german, not swiss as my sig might suggest to some
--
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Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)

On Monday 04 June 2007 14:20, Frank Küster wrote:
> Michael Welle wrote:
> > The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> > were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> > fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it
> > from places, where you can train your dog.
>
> Do you have references for that? I've never heard that word[1], but
> then I didn't do military service, nor do I keep a dog... Google gives
> some hits that point to what you describe (the fitness trail), but also
> to online games and actually a photo album by a SS officer. Well.

FWIW, Dutch has a similar word: stormbaan (a literal translation of
Sturmbahn). All top google hits for that are related to obstacle courses.

I have to agree with earlier posters though that the choice of font on the
homepage of the game indicates that the authors at least considered the
association with Sturmbannfürher.

Cheers,
FJP

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On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 02:20:46PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Michael Welle wrote:
>
> > The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> > were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> > fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it from
> > places, where you can train your dog.
>
> Do you have references for that? I've never heard that word[1], but
> then I didn't do military service, nor do I keep a dog... Google gives
> some hits that point to what you describe (the fitness trail), but also
> to online games and actually a photo album by a SS officer. Well.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindernisbahn


Cheers,
Michael
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Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?

Greetings,
Miry

2007/6/4, Michael Koch :
>
> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 02:20:46PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> > Michael Welle wrote:
> >
> > > The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> > > were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> > > fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it from
> > > places, where you can train your dog.
> >
> > Do you have references for that? I've never heard that word[1], but
> > then I didn't do military service, nor do I keep a dog... Google gives
> > some hits that point to what you describe (the fitness trail), but also
> > to online games and actually a photo album by a SS officer. Well.
>
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindernisbahn
>

Hi Frank,

Frank Küster writes:

> Michael Welle wrote:
>
>> The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
>> were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
>> fitness. This is often used in military lingo. But I also know it from
>> places, where you can train your dog.
>
> Do you have references for that? I've never heard that word[1], but
> then I didn't do military service, nor do I keep a dog... Google gives
> some hits that point to what you describe (the fitness trail), but also
> to online games and actually a photo album by a SS officer. Well.
it comes from the back of my mind, so no direct references. Military
services didn't liked me, too . Maybe I know the term from some
fellows who are grown up in GDR. I will try to determine this. The
term is not in my active vocabulary. If one trusts google, 'sturmbahn'
seems to be quite common in military lingo.

VG
hmw

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On 2007-06-04, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> ------=_Part_840_15471732.1180961520043
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?

Fahrer means 'traveller' or something like that in my limited german
vocabulary. I don't think that sturmbahnfarer is unsuitable. One who
travels through a course with many obstacles ...

/Sune


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Hi Miriam,

"Miriam Ruiz" writes:

> Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?
is this an yes/no question? I for myself with decent knowledge of
german language and history have no big issues with the name. But I
understand that some people have bad feelings about the name due to
its closeness to some nazi terms. Perhaps you can add a little piece
of prosa explainig the term?

In general I find it very interesting, what feelings are introduced
into people by words (not doings). It is difficult, but exciting, to
pay attention to all this people from different cultures all the
time.


Michael


PS: Debian contains a package named stalin.

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Hi,

"Miriam Ruiz" writes:

> Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?
sorry, I forgot to mention that the name seems to sound much better
without the term 'fahrer'.

Michael

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* Sune Vuorela :
> On 2007-06-04, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > ------=_Part_840_15471732.1180961520043
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> > Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?
>
> Fahrer means 'traveller' or something like that in my limited german
> vocabulary.


Fahrer = driver

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Le Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 02:52:00PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz a écrit :
>
> Then, would simply "sturmbahn" be a suitable name for the package?
> Greetings,
> Miry

Dear Miriam,

I think that the opinions expressed on -devel (I feel a bit sorry for
the traffic) are diverse and redundant enough to suggest that we have
now quite a good overview.

I found a thread on happypenguin.org through the following Google
search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...hrer+bad+taste

There is somebody who identifies himself as the author and who answers
to similar questions.

http://www.happypenguin.org/show?Stu...hrer&showall=1

Definitely, without his input, there is not much more to say...

Have a nice day,

--
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http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Hi,

On Monday 04 June 2007 10:38, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> I can't believe that... gothic fonts are forbidden in Germany by law!!!???

They were merely deprecated, but not forbidden, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua-Fraktur_dispute - the german version of
that page gives a bit more info.

Nowadays these kinds of fonts are often used to make stuff look older or
to "look german", and _sometimes_ the desired effect is to look "like ~65
years ago".


regards,
Holger

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On Monday 04 June 2007 14.20:46 Frank Küster wrote:
> Michael Welle wrote:
> > The german term 'Sturmbahn' as in 'Sturmbahnfahrer' describes a trail
> > were you have to vanquish some barriers to train your physical
> > fitness.

[...]

> [1] and I'm german, not swiss as my sig might suggest to some

Just some trivia since we're speaking about .ch ... it's Kampfbahn here.
Never heard the combination with "Fahrer", though. (I'm doing military
service, but not on troops where the Kampfbahn is our business)

-- vbi



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On 6/4/07, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> Just some trivia since we're speaking about .ch ... it's Kampfbahn here.
> Never heard the combination with "Fahrer", though. (I'm doing military
> service, but not on troops where the Kampfbahn is our business)

In Afrikaans (descendant of Dutch) it is "hindernisbaan", which is
actually very similar to the german hindernisbahn. Hindernis ==
obstacle.

If there is one thing this longish thread did is to make me feel
better about my poor german, considering some of the english produced
by the germans. Eg: non-constitunional (should be unconstitutional).
But no-one said english was logic :-) What with unkempt (no such word
as kempt though) and disheveled (no such word as sheveled) :-)

Groete,
Izak


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I demand that Izak Burger may or may not have written...

[snip]
> But no-one said english was logic :-)

It isn't. It's not logical either. :-)

> What with unkempt (no such word as kempt though) and disheveled (no such
> word as sheveled) :-)

You mean "dishevelled", unless you're using American English.

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