Re: How to Educate New Users - Debian

This is a discussion on Re: How to Educate New Users - Debian ; Douglas Mayne wrote: > On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:46:45 +0000, John Briggs wrote: > > >>I am subscribed to the Slackware mailing list and a question was raised on >>the list about using older Slackware packages with version 10.2. ...

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Thread: Re: How to Educate New Users

  1. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Douglas Mayne wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:46:45 +0000, John Briggs wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I am subscribed to the Slackware mailing list and a question was raised on
    >>the list about using older Slackware packages with version 10.2.
    >>
    >>There was a valid response from one of the list members which was to
    >>install the packages with installpkg and resolve any library dependencies
    >>with either sym links to the current versions of the libraries or install
    >>the older libraries.
    >>
    >>This was declared too hard by the original poster and I noticed today
    >>another response agreeing with him.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Off-topic: Another solution to using older packages.
    >
    > I think the answer should be, "Use the source, Luke." It is a big
    > strength of the GNU/Linux platform that source code is available for GPL
    > software components. The compilation step will be even easier if an old
    > slackBuild script is available.
    >
    > But that's too hard...
    >
    > Give the user some credit, and ask him to stretch and try to do more- not
    > less. Everything is hard, until you've done it once or twice. The idea is
    > for the user to gain experience and overcome his "inertia" expressed as
    > "that's too hard." Learning at least a few things should be expected- at
    > least up to the point of writing his own "hello world" program. If the
    > user knows what effort goes into a 10 line program, then he will have much
    > more appreciation for larger programs (compilers, Operating Systems, web
    > browsers, etc.). When he sees the major effort which has gone into the
    > base system, he might stop complaining.
    >
    > In any case, no one is forcing anyone to use this distribution (or
    > GNU/Linux in general). In most cases, new users are coming to GNU/Linux
    > voluntarily, to get away from problems with other platforms:
    >
    > A. Security concerns (spyware, viruses, rootkits)
    > B. License expense for every instance/install
    > C. Black box components (no source code)
    > D. Expired vendor support, even for security patches.
    >
    > There are costs associated with any platform. The above details some of
    > the costs of the "popular" platform. The cost of the "free" platform is
    > the time which is invested to learn a few things. The user must
    > decide which works best for him in the long run.
    >


    -J-C-> Wrote:

    I believe there are as many people who would
    pay the same (OR MORE) price that millions now give
    to Mock-o-****, for a good stable Linux distribution.

    Everyone who uses computers recognize that the people
    who write computer programs are some type of very special
    Gods, or alien people from a distant planet!

    But, there are some very brilliant people who perform
    un-expected miracles with the programmers creations.

    I'm sure that whoever wrote the first Spread Sheet, Data base
    or Word processor, never dreamed the things would
    change the world (we now live in) to the extent that they
    did.

    There is more to life than puzzling over computer code.
    and then trying to make something revolutionary out it.

    After all... Lets not forget computers are
    *Tools for doing the _things_ we need to do*

    Having an epitaph on your tombstone of being a "Buggy Code
    Writer" does not gain anyone immortality... I can do THAT!!

    Does anyone remember DBASE and why the Ashton Tate Company
    went out of business or the downfall of Seagate?

    Anything worth doing is worth doing it... RIGHT/Correct!

    To hell with something FREE, if it's practically worthless....

    Phew!!!.......



    --
    -J-C->

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  2. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Intresting post, but what exactly to you expect from me/us now and why
    did you post it in the debian section?


  3. Re: How to Educate New Users

    infinity wrote:
    > Douglas Mayne wrote:


    >> In any case, no one is forcing anyone to use this distribution (or
    >> GNU/Linux in general). In most cases, new users are coming to GNU/Linux
    >> voluntarily, to get away from problems with other platforms:
    >>
    >> A. Security concerns (spyware, viruses, rootkits)
    >> B. License expense for every instance/install
    >> C. Black box components (no source code)
    >> D. Expired vendor support, even for security patches.


    The biggest reason is that your user has his head up his ass. My user
    doesn't give a damn what OS he is using, as long as it runs the program
    that he wants to run to do the job he has to do.

    >> There are costs associated with any platform. The above details some of
    >> the costs of the "popular" platform. The cost of the "free" platform is
    >> the time which is invested to learn a few things. The user must
    >> decide which works best for him in the long run.


    Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    any software of consequence for it. I don't want to have to invent, and
    then manufacture a lightbulb just to get light on in the hallway. I
    don't want to have to manufacture a lightbulb whenever my lightbulb
    burns out. I have better, much more creative things to do with my time.


    > I believe there are as many people who would
    > pay the same (OR MORE) price that millions now give
    > to Mock-o-****, for a good stable Linux distribution.
    >
    > Everyone who uses computers recognize that the people
    > who write computer programs are some type of very special
    > Gods, or alien people from a distant planet!
    >
    > But, there are some very brilliant people who perform
    > un-expected miracles with the programmers creations.
    >
    > I'm sure that whoever wrote the first Spread Sheet, Data base
    > or Word processor, never dreamed the things would
    > change the world (we now live in) to the extent that they
    > did.
    >
    > There is more to life than puzzling over computer code.
    > and then trying to make something revolutionary out it.
    >
    > After all... Lets not forget computers are
    > *Tools for doing the _things_ we need to do*
    >
    > Having an epitaph on your tombstone of being a "Buggy Code
    > Writer" does not gain anyone immortality... I can do THAT!!
    >
    > Does anyone remember DBASE and why the Ashton Tate Company
    > went out of business or the downfall of Seagate?
    >
    > Anything worth doing is worth doing it... RIGHT/Correct!
    >
    > To hell with something FREE, if it's practically worthless....
    >
    > Phew!!!.......


    If linux does the job you need it to do, then use it. But if MS does
    the job better, then use it. This nonsense about "learning" with linux,
    particularly with slackware, is idiotic. Only the tiniest percentage of
    linux users could write a moderately difficult C program and that is ok
    because others have done it for them. I am using Cakewalk and MS right
    now to do music because there is nothing comparable to Cakewalk
    available for the linux system.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  4. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Realto Margarino said the following on 15/11/05 05:40:
    > infinity wrote:
    >> Douglas Mayne wrote:

    >
    >>> In any case, no one is forcing anyone to use this distribution (or
    >>> GNU/Linux in general). In most cases, new users are coming to GNU/Linux
    >>> voluntarily, to get away from problems with other platforms:
    >>>
    >>> A. Security concerns (spyware, viruses, rootkits)
    >>> B. License expense for every instance/install
    >>> C. Black box components (no source code)
    >>> D. Expired vendor support, even for security patches.

    >
    > The biggest reason is that your user has his head up his ass. My user
    > doesn't give a damn what OS he is using, as long as it runs the program
    > that he wants to run to do the job he has to do.
    >
    >>> There are costs associated with any platform. The above details some of
    >>> the costs of the "popular" platform. The cost of the "free" platform is
    >>> the time which is invested to learn a few things. The user must
    >>> decide which works best for him in the long run.

    >
    > Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    > any software of consequence for it. I don't want to have to invent, and
    > then manufacture a lightbulb just to get light on in the hallway. I
    > don't want to have to manufacture a lightbulb whenever my lightbulb
    > burns out. I have better, much more creative things to do with my time.
    >
    >
    >> I believe there are as many people who would
    >> pay the same (OR MORE) price that millions now give
    >> to Mock-o-****, for a good stable Linux distribution.
    >>
    >> Everyone who uses computers recognize that the people
    >> who write computer programs are some type of very special
    >> Gods, or alien people from a distant planet!
    >>
    >> But, there are some very brilliant people who perform
    >> un-expected miracles with the programmers creations.
    >>
    >> I'm sure that whoever wrote the first Spread Sheet, Data base
    >> or Word processor, never dreamed the things would
    >> change the world (we now live in) to the extent that they
    >> did.
    >>
    >> There is more to life than puzzling over computer code.
    >> and then trying to make something revolutionary out it.
    >>
    >> After all... Lets not forget computers are
    >> *Tools for doing the _things_ we need to do*
    >>
    >> Having an epitaph on your tombstone of being a "Buggy Code
    >> Writer" does not gain anyone immortality... I can do THAT!!
    >>
    >> Does anyone remember DBASE and why the Ashton Tate Company
    >> went out of business or the downfall of Seagate?
    >>
    >> Anything worth doing is worth doing it... RIGHT/Correct!
    >>
    >> To hell with something FREE, if it's practically worthless....
    >>
    >> Phew!!!.......

    >
    > If linux does the job you need it to do, then use it. But if MS does
    > the job better, then use it. This nonsense about "learning" with linux,
    > particularly with slackware, is idiotic. Only the tiniest percentage of
    > linux users could write a moderately difficult C program and that is ok
    > because others have done it for them. I am using Cakewalk and MS right
    > now to do music because there is nothing comparable to Cakewalk
    > available for the linux system.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >
    > rm


    My, my...
    You do get around, don't you.
    How come you're not playing "Top Posting Sheriff" in these groups? For
    that matter, I've never noticed you to use any OS other than Windows, so
    why are you here at all?

    --
    ..snork

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in email?

  5. Re: How to Educate New Users

    In Snorkelson MacBurp:

    [Snip...]

    > why are you here at all?


    Well, since it's crossposted over hell and half of Texas, probably Flatfish
    or clone/sockie spewing net sewage, as usual for M$ and its altar boys.

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  6. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Harold Stevens said the following on 15/11/05 09:25:
    > In Snorkelson MacBurp:
    >
    > [Snip...]
    >
    >> why are you here at all?

    >
    > Well, since it's crossposted over hell and half of Texas, probably Flatfish
    > or clone/sockie spewing net sewage, as usual for M$ and its altar boys.
    >


    Not flatfish.
    RM is basically a troll, who in my experience, usually **** disturbs in
    sports groups. It's the first time I've noticed him in a.o.l.s. He may
    not be the King of inflamatory posts, but he's definately part of the
    Royal Family.

    --
    ..snork

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in email?

  7. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Snorkelson MacBurp wrote:

    > My, my...
    > You do get around, don't you.
    > How come you're not playing "Top Posting Sheriff" in these groups? For
    > that matter, I've never noticed you to use any OS other than Windows, so
    > why are you here at all?


    I've never noticed you at all, no matter what OS we are talking about.
    But if you want to look through my postings with google you will see
    that I was using linux (and unix) for over 10 years.

    So, I guess the question is this? Why are you posting here? Are you
    just looking to be flamed? You like being made to look foolish? Or is
    your head just jammed way, way up your ass and you are looking for a
    place to rest and ease the pain of being you?

    Bugger off.

    cordially, as always,

    rm


  8. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Snorkelson MacBurp wrote:

    > RM is basically a troll, who in my experience, usually **** disturbs in


    Here is a guy named "Snorkelson MacBurp" calling _me_ a troll?

    That's rich.

    > sports groups. It's the first time I've noticed him in a.o.l.s.


    I have been posting here, quite regularly for a couple of years now. I
    wish I could say when I last saw a posting from you but I don't pay
    attention to trolls. In fact, you are probably in my tin killfile when
    I am booted up in slackware.

    > He may
    > not be the King of inflamatory posts, but he's definately part of the
    > Royal Family.


    Where on earth does a turd like you get off on calling me a troll?

    Bugger off, small fry.

    cordially, as always,

    rm


  9. Re: How to Educate New Users

    In Snorkelson MacBurp:

    [Snip...]

    > RM is basically a troll, who in my experience, usually **** disturbs in
    > sports groups. It's the first time I've noticed him in a.o.l.s.


    Maybe he thinks SuSE is the a German futball team.

    BTW, does this troll typically crosspost Linux to excess like this? That's
    something typical of Flatfish and pals.

    Flatfish or not, it's typical wintard posting, apparently to be disruptive
    as possible in Linux tech groups.

    I am seeing the troll only in Fup's--it's definitely tripping something in
    my killfile, which is mainly a wintroll and other netkook filter.

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  10. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    > any software of consequence for it.


    Software of consequence? You mean Word?

    You're an idiot.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

  11. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Ivan Marsh wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    >>any software of consequence for it.

    >
    >
    > Software of consequence? You mean Word?


    Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    are the only ways to go.

    I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.

    > You're an idiot.


    I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  12. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    > productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.


    Why are you even posting here if you are anything but a troll? Go away

    --
    JDS | jeffrey@example.invalid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/


  13. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>
    >>>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody
    >>>writes any software of consequence for it.

    >>
    >> Software of consequence? You mean Word?

    >
    > Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    > Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    > once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    > are the only ways to go.


    Uh... Word processing isn't a high end application.

    > I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    > and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    > linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.


    Like I said: Software of consequence?

    Cakewalk is of no consequence.

    ....and if you really want to produce music on a PC you should be using a
    MAC.

    >> You're an idiot.

    >
    > I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    > productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.


    Yes, you are an idiot. You choose the OS that's right for your purposes,
    which is apparently being an asshole on newsgroups, which you can do with
    just about any OS.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

  14. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Ivan Marsh wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >>>On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody
    >>>>writes any software of consequence for it.
    >>>
    >>>Software of consequence? You mean Word?

    >>
    >>Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    >>Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    >>once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    >>are the only ways to go.

    >
    > Uh... Word processing isn't a high end application.


    It is if you work in an office or if you are a professional writer.

    >>I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    >>and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    >>linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.

    >
    >
    > Like I said: Software of consequence?
    >
    > Cakewalk is of no consequence.


    It is if you produce music.

    > ...and if you really want to produce music on a PC you should be using a
    > MAC.


    That is really old-fashioned thinking, now, isn't it?

    >>>You're an idiot.

    >>
    >>I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    >>productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.

    >
    >
    > Yes, you are an idiot. You choose the OS that's right for your purposes,
    > which is apparently being an asshole on newsgroups, which you can do with
    > just about any OS.


    Well, so far, you are the only one who has descended to name-calling.

    G'nite Wilma,

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  15. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:16:28 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>>Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >>>>On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody
    >>>>>writes any software of consequence for it.
    >>>>
    >>>>Software of consequence? You mean Word?
    >>>
    >>>Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    >>>Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    >>>once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    >>>are the only ways to go.

    >>
    >> Uh... Word processing isn't a high end application.

    >
    > It is if you work in an office or if you are a professional writer.


    No, it's not. If you're talking about high-end layout to print a word
    processor is a tinker toy.

    Most of what you're talking about can be done in notepad.

    >>>I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    >>>and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    >>>linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.

    >>
    >> Like I said: Software of consequence?
    >>
    >> Cakewalk is of no consequence.

    >
    > It is if you produce music.


    If you don't think you can produce music in Linux, and that's important
    to you, then why are you here?

    >> ...and if you really want to produce music on a PC you should be using
    >> a MAC.

    >
    > That is really old-fashioned thinking, now, isn't it?


    Haven't seen a MAC lately have you?

    >>>>You're an idiot.
    >>>
    >>>I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    >>>productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.

    >>
    >> Yes, you are an idiot. You choose the OS that's right for your
    >> purposes, which is apparently being an asshole on newsgroups, which you
    >> can do with just about any OS.

    >
    > Well, so far, you are the only one who has descended to name-calling.


    Says the ass**** that was talking about anal cravings. Let me let you in
    on a secret... your mom loves my anal cravings.

    If you have nothing to contribute to a discussion about Linux other than
    to dismiss it then go away... Perhaps you could go insult jews in a jewish
    group or make fun of ill people in a support group somewhere.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


  16. Re: How to Educate New Users

    wtf childs, stop that unecessary bull****.
    actually i do agree with Realto Margarino's main post and then there
    come suddendly alll these freaks and start posting bull**** which is
    not related to the topic itself. such fags


  17. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    > Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    >>>any software of consequence for it.

    >>
    >> Software of consequence? You mean Word?

    >
    > Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    > Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    > once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    > are the only ways to go.


    That might have been the case last year; but with OpenOffice 2.0 out of
    beta; that no longer is a reasonable assertion. Its fast, its powerful,
    its internally available macro languages are easily on a par with MS's
    offering. It reads and writes more file formats, it works on more
    operating systems, and of course, its open source.

    Couple that with Gimp and you're in really good shape for doc production.

    > I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    > and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    > linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.


    Well, there's the reason you use windows, and really the only good one for
    any OS. You have a custom/particular piece of commercial software that
    requires windows to run. We use Encore here to write sheet music, it
    runs on windows, and so, we have a windows computer to run it on. There
    is, of course, lilypond, but we've used Encore for so long, and we use it
    for such "quick hack" stuff; that making the switch doesn't make sense.

    > I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    > productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.


    You're not really measuring the OS though. All you are measuring is the
    fact that your particular software runs on windows.

    TeX is a counter example of an equally arcane nature. Sure, there are
    ways, with lots of effort, to get TeX running on a windows system.
    Contrast that to thirty minutes with nearly any linux distribution and a
    marginally suitable CPU (486 or better, 64 meg ram), and you've got a full
    blown, working TeX system. No muss, no fuss, works every time.


  18. Re: How to Educate New Users

    rwwff wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:30:52 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >
    >>Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:40:48 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Nonsense. The major "cost" of the "free" platform is that nobody writes
    >>>>any software of consequence for it.
    >>>
    >>>Software of consequence? You mean Word?

    >>
    >>Now that you mention it, you are right about Word. The WP available for
    >>Linux are amateur hour. They are fine for some nerd who writes a letter
    >>once a month but for regular office work? Word, and maybe Wordperfect,
    >>are the only ways to go.

    >
    >
    > That might have been the case last year; but with OpenOffice 2.0 out of
    > beta; that no longer is a reasonable assertion. Its fast, its powerful,
    > its internally available macro languages are easily on a par with MS's
    > offering. It reads and writes more file formats, it works on more
    > operating systems, and of course, its open source.
    >
    > Couple that with Gimp and you're in really good shape for doc production.


    Sorry to disappoint you but Gimp is hardly a professional graphics
    system. I have used Gimp and it doesn't come close to Adobe
    Illustrator/photoshop. It is fine for a freebie but it is not
    top-notch. The biggest problem I had with Gimp is the poor font
    resolutions. And Openoffice may be ok for a university student but it
    will hardly do in a production environment. Word and Wordperfect have a
    long history of macros that OO can't come close to matching.

    >>I use a program now called Cakewalk. It is music processing software
    >>and nothing in linux compares to it. If it ran in linux, I would use
    >>linux. But it doesn't. It runs in windows. So I run windows.

    >
    >
    > Well, there's the reason you use windows, and really the only good one for
    > any OS. You have a custom/particular piece of commercial software that
    > requires windows to run. We use Encore here to write sheet music, it
    > runs on windows, and so, we have a windows computer to run it on. There
    > is, of course, lilypond, but we've used Encore for so long, and we use it
    > for such "quick hack" stuff; that making the switch doesn't make sense.


    Yes, Encore is another program I have. I don't know what lilypond is.


    >>I guess I am an idiot because I measure an OS by its ultimate
    >>productivity. You like an OS because it serves your anal cravings.

    >
    > You're not really measuring the OS though. All you are measuring is the
    > fact that your particular software runs on windows.


    And that is the context by which I measure the OS. By my needs.
    Windows, not linux, satisfies my needs. THat is not to say that linux
    wouldn't satisfy somebody else's needs. But I get really tired of the
    zealots who cry out, blindly of course, that windows is no good for
    anything and that linux is better in all cases.

    > TeX is a counter example of an equally arcane nature. Sure, there are
    > ways, with lots of effort, to get TeX running on a windows system.
    > Contrast that to thirty minutes with nearly any linux distribution and a
    > marginally suitable CPU (486 or better, 64 meg ram), and you've got a full
    > blown, working TeX system. No muss, no fuss, works every time.


    I didn't think anyone used TeX anymore.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  19. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On 2005-11-15, Realto Margarino wrote:

    >> TeX is a counter example of an equally arcane nature. Sure,
    >> there are ways, with lots of effort, to get TeX running on a
    >> windows system. Contrast that to thirty minutes with nearly
    >> any linux distribution and a marginally suitable CPU (486 or
    >> better, 64 meg ram), and you've got a full blown, working TeX
    >> system. No muss, no fuss, works every time.

    >
    > I didn't think anyone used TeX anymore.


    Well, you thought wrong. It's still used in mathematical,
    scientific and technical areas -- and among people in general
    who just don't want their documents to look like ****.

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! What I need is a
    at MATURE RELATIONSHIP with a
    visi.com FLOPPY DISK...

  20. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:39:11 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    >> Couple that with Gimp and you're in really good shape for doc
    >> production.

    >
    > Sorry to disappoint you but Gimp is hardly a professional graphics
    > system.


    Once again... you have nothing to contribute:

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7096363910.html

    "Film Gimp is the most successful open source tool in feature motion
    picture work today. Programmers at many studios are helping development,
    including Rhythm & Hues, Sony Pictures Imageworks, and ILM. This is great
    cooperation in an industry that historically has been rather secretive."

    GIMP used in Scooby-Doo, Harry Potter and Stuart Little... with
    development being contributed to by Imageworks and ILM...

    Yep... looks like no one writes software of consequence for Linux.

    You don't consider a product used to re-touch and composite major films
    professional quality? What do you consider professional quality? MSPaint
    I'm guessing.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

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