Re: How to Educate New Users - Debian

This is a discussion on Re: How to Educate New Users - Debian ; in my opinion, as end user, they should restyle/reorder/rename the userinterface of gimp so that it equals the level and useability of adobe photoshop which is just most successfully system i experinced in this kind of software. i think theres ...

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Thread: Re: How to Educate New Users

  1. Re: How to Educate New Users

    in my opinion, as end user, they should restyle/reorder/rename the
    userinterface of gimp so that it equals the level and useability of
    adobe photoshop which is just most successfully system i experinced in
    this kind of software. i think theres allready an equal project where
    they working on exactly this.
    gimp has in my eyes a to unsorted UI which just seems sometimes lost on
    the desktop.
    they should do that step finaly and mode on - the back-end of gimp isit
    worth.


  2. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Realto Margarino wrote:
    > Snorkelson MacBurp wrote:
    >
    > > My, my...
    > > You do get around, don't you.
    > > How come you're not playing "Top Posting Sheriff" in these groups? For
    > > that matter, I've never noticed you to use any OS other than Windows, so
    > > why are you here at all?

    >
    > I've never noticed you at all, no matter what OS we are talking about.
    > But if you want to look through my postings with google you will see
    > that I was using linux (and unix) for over 10 years.
    >
    > So, I guess the question is this? Why are you posting here? Are you
    > just looking to be flamed? You like being made to look foolish? Or is
    > your head just jammed way, way up your ass and you are looking for a
    > place to rest and ease the pain of being you?
    >
    > Bugger off.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >
    > rm


    I did a Google search Realto Margarino, or should I say Roger Maynard,
    or Ron Matthews. It would seem that you are pretty much despised where
    ever you post. The Slackware folks seem no different. You appear to
    have been a blight on Usenet since around 1992. Judging from the sheer
    volume of posts, Usenet must be your life, which is to suggest that you
    don't really have one. I would like to recomend that you should perhaps
    crawl out of you parent's basement, get some sun, and maybe get a
    girlfriend that isn't made of vinyl.


  3. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Ivan Marsh wrote:

    > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7096363910.html
    >
    > "Film Gimp is the most successful open source tool in feature motion
    > picture work today. Programmers at many studios are helping development,
    > including Rhythm & Hues, Sony Pictures Imageworks, and ILM. This is great
    > cooperation in an industry that historically has been rather secretive."
    >
    > GIMP used in Scooby-Doo, Harry Potter and Stuart Little... with
    > development being contributed to by Imageworks and ILM...
    >
    > Yep... looks like no one writes software of consequence for Linux.


    I have used Gimp. I know Gimp. And Gimp's fonts are worthless. Now
    maybe Gimp is good for doing some small things. But it in no way
    compares to Photoshop/Illustrator. I know because I have used them.

    > You don't consider a product used to re-touch and composite major films
    > professional quality? What do you consider professional quality? MSPaint
    > I'm guessing.


    The extras in major films all have a SAG card. Does this make them good
    actors?

    You don't know what you are talking about and your arguing skills are
    horrible. Don't bother me.

    Bugger off.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  4. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Ivan Marsh wrote:

    >
    > "Film Gimp is the most successful open source tool in feature motion
    > picture work today. Programmers at many studios are helping development,
    > including Rhythm & Hues, Sony Pictures Imageworks, and ILM. This is great
    > cooperation in an industry that historically has been rather secretive."
    >
    > GIMP used in Scooby-Doo, Harry Potter and Stuart Little... with
    > development being contributed to by Imageworks and ILM...
    >
    > Yep... looks like no one writes software of consequence for Linux.
    >
    > You don't consider a product used to re-touch and composite major films
    > professional quality? What do you consider professional quality? MSPaint
    > I'm guessing.
    >
    > --
    > The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


    -J-C-> Wrote:

    I'm sure 15-20 years from now Gimp will be an
    exceptional application, especially if you have
    a staff of programmers to assist you in using it. :-)

    But, for now, Gimp is what we use to call MS's
    "promised dream applications"... *Vapor ware* ...


    I think it's time for a regime change in most OS system
    development... Period!


    Artificial intelligence is sure to be feasible and desired,
    now that inexpensive massive memory, higher CPU speeds
    and data storage is available.

    Also, the ability for computers to actually be able to learn,
    should be priceless!

    Maybe plan9 will wake up OS thinking...

    But, Computer OS religions sucks. (Enough!!!)

    --

    -J-C->

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  5. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Hi,

    wrote on 15 Nov 2005 22:39:11 MET:

    > I didn't think anyone used TeX anymore.


    This statement of yours weakens a bit the rest of your "I know the
    world, you don't" rant.

    The funny thing is that in computer science, mathematics or physics,
    you can instantaneously spot the 10% papers not written in LaTeX (and
    thus written in MS-Word) since they look terrible. Note that it's not
    an equation writing issue (it could be, but it's not), but really a
    typographic and layout problem.

    The paradox is *nobody* uses Word to produce quality document. Letters
    and short reports have the crappy "word look" which is becoming the
    corporate standard (since the majority thinks the Windows XP
    interface, Dell laptops, the Hotmail website and Paris Hilton are
    gorgeous, this is consistent (*)). Serious stuff is made with serious
    softwares such as X-press.

    Cheers,

    (*) The iPod is an enigma ... I have a few theories, but that's not
    the point here.

    --
    François Fleuret

  6. Re: How to Educate New Users

    François Fleuret wrote:
    > wrote on 15 Nov 2005 22:39:11 MET:
    >
    >>I didn't think anyone used TeX anymore.

    >
    > This statement of yours weakens a bit the rest of your "I know the
    > world, you don't" rant.


    No, it doesn't weaken anything. And I don't see an "I know the world
    and you don't rant."

    > The funny thing is that in computer science, mathematics or physics,
    > you can instantaneously spot the 10% papers not written in LaTeX (and


    Oh, well, just look at all the computer science, math and physics papers
    that are written! Look at who gets to read them!

    > thus written in MS-Word) since they look terrible. Note that it's not
    > an equation writing issue (it could be, but it's not), but really a
    > typographic and layout problem.


    Word is not a desktop publisher. But there are plenty of desktop
    publishing systems available for windows that are used far, far, far,
    more than TeX because most people can't afford to take the time to learn
    TeX.

    > The paradox is *nobody* uses Word to produce quality document. Letters
    > and short reports have the crappy "word look" which is becoming the
    > corporate standard (since the majority thinks the Windows XP
    > interface, Dell laptops, the Hotmail website and Paris Hilton are
    > gorgeous, this is consistent (*)). Serious stuff is made with serious
    > softwares such as X-press.


    Well, the "paradox" is that you seem to "know the world and I don't."
    Whether you think that word produces documents that look crappy doesn't
    matter to anyone. People don't have time to fuss around with archaic
    commandline garbage like TeX or it's hilarious "gui" version, LaTeX.

    So why don't you just hide in your little room somewhere and lash out at
    the world for producing such crappy documents when you have lots of time
    (because nobody needs you) to use TeX.

    Why didn't you use TeX for this response?

    G'nite Martha,

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  7. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On 2005-11-16, infinity wrote:


    > Also, the ability for computers to actually be able to learn,
    > should be priceless!


    Yeah, heaven forbid you should actually have to do it for yourself!

    nb

  8. Re: How to Educate New Users



    Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >
    >Realto Marg*BLAM!*


    What a conundrum! My policy of hitting my delete-to-end-of-post key
    whenever I see that someone is replying to a Troll just conflicted
    with my Read-Ivan-Marsh's-.sig-and-strongly-agree policy...

    I suppose I can add it by hand..

    The Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in US history.

    There! Much better....


  9. Re: How to Educate New Users


    > And I don't see an "I know the world and you don't rant."


    That's, obviously, your main problem.

    > Whether you think that word produces documents that look crappy
    > doesn't matter to anyone.


    Just for the record. Do you mean that what Word produces reaches your
    aesthetic and typographic standards ? Please can you give me the URL
    of a pdf produced by Word which is not plain crap ?

    > Why didn't you use TeX for this response?


    As a matter of fact, I did. For pure text, TeX uses pure text. And it
    would actually look wonderful if it was exported to pdf. I guess you
    did not use Word because your mailer choked on the 4Mb resulting .doc
    file ?

    Cheers,

    --
    François Fleuret

  10. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:45:34 +0000, infinity wrote:

    > But, for now, Gimp is what we use to call MS's
    > "promised dream applications"... *Vapor ware* ...


    Spoken by someone who has obviously not *used* the GIMP.

    Ugh, why am I even letting myself be dragged into this fracas?

    --
    JDS | jeffrey@example.invalid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/


  11. Re: How to Educate New Users

    On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:24:02 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > I have used Gimp. I know Gimp. And Gimp's fonts are worthless. Now
    > maybe Gimp is good for doing some small things. But it in no way
    > compares to Photoshop/Illustrator. I know because I have used them.


    That is, quite frankly, and in every way, an utter load of complete
    bull****. The only part of that statement that *might* be true is the
    "[you] have used them" apart, and frankly, I have trouble believing you
    have used the GIMP at all.

    Let us dissect....

    "I have used Gimp. I know Gimp."
    we have to take your word for it.

    "And Gimp's fonts are worthless."
    Um, TrueType fonts? The *EXACT SAME FONTS* used on Windows? How, exactly,
    are they worthless? They are the exact same fonts! And I don't mean,
    "clones to look the same" or "copies" -- Linux uses the exact same
    TrueType font files that Windows uses.

    "Now maybe Gimp is good for doing some small things. But it in no way
    compares to Photoshop/Illustrator."
    Actually, it in every way can compare to Photoshop. It in no way compares
    to Illustrator. Maybe you don't know the difference, and if that is the
    case, then why do you think you are qualified to comment on any of this?

    Ugh, you are annoying. If you like Windows, fine. Really. Just go to
    comp.os.windows.advocacy, not c.o.l.a. I mean, why even bother being here?
    (except the obvious trolling.)


    --
    JDS | jeffrey@example.invalid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/


  12. Re: How to Educate New Users

    > "And Gimp's fonts are worthless."
    > Um, TrueType fonts? The *EXACT SAME FONTS* used on Windows? How,
    > exactly, are they worthless? They are the exact same fonts! And I
    > don't mean, "clones to look the same" or "copies" -- Linux uses the
    > exact same TrueType font files that Windows uses.
    >
    > "Now maybe Gimp is good for doing some small things. But it in no way
    > compares to Photoshop/Illustrator."
    > Actually, it in every way can compare to Photoshop. It in no way
    > compares to Illustrator. Maybe you don't know the difference, and if
    > that is the case, then why do you think you are qualified to comment on
    > any of this?


    This post is not in reference directly to your post, JDS, but just a
    general comment:

    Somewhere earlier in these threads are a reference (which I'm not willing
    to look for) regarding GIMP's User Interface. I have to agree with the
    assertion that the GIMP's original user interface was difficult (or at
    least not as user friendly) as I would like. But for quite some time
    there has existed a 'hacked" version of the program, called GIMPShop.

    The user interface has been redone, and it now can look like, and act very
    much like PhotoShop. Here are some links for anyone interested:

    http://freshmeat.net/projects/gimpshop/ http://www.gimpshop.net/
    http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241
    http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17629
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMPShop




    Regards,

    Valentin

  13. Re: How to Educate New Users

    [big snip]
    > An OS is a tool. When DOS
    > fits the bill, I use DOS, when slackware fits the bill, I use slackware,
    > and when Windows fits the bill, I use Windows.

    I wish more people would realise the reality of your first 6 words =)
    Unfortunately it seems that operating systems are measured on the set of
    applications that just happens to be written in their API, which in the case
    of linux vs windows, is pure politics.

    [little snip]

    > You think wrong. It'd be impossible to prove or disprove, but I would
    > guess that the number of TeX (&LaTex,etc) users out there, exceeds by some
    > substantial margin, the number of legal Cakewalk or Encore users.

    Well I know of over 150 people who use LaTeX all within 200m of where I am
    typing this post, 3 are ssh'd into my other machine at this point in time =)
    *gets tingles all over*

    [tiny wee insignificant snip with the biggest edit mark which brings a
    too-cute end to this post]



  14. Re: How to Educate New Users

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Ivan Marsh belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:24:02 -0500, Realto Margarino wrote:
    >
    >> Bugger off.

    >
    > Stop being an idiot and I'll leave you alone.


    Realto is a troll. Everything he says is absolutely suspect, where it
    is not patently wrong.

    Don't bother feeding this troll. Keep it in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
    where we eviscerate trolls such as Realto. Followups set.

    --
    Treat yourself to the devices, applications, and services running on the
    GNU/Linux® operating system!

  15. Re: How to Educate New Users

    Son of Sam wrote:

    > wtf childs, stop that unecessary bull****.
    > actually i do agree with Realto Margarino's main post


    Ha! alt.os.linux.slackware's pet troll lurks on this NG too?

    O tempora! O ploinkos!

    Niki Kovacs

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