BASIC-E - CP/M

This is a discussion on BASIC-E - CP/M ; "Bob McConnell" wrote in message news:lbqdf39l1a0u7aoo20262mktvedma7m0pd@4ax.com... > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:39:21 -0700, "Thomas \"Todd\" Fischer" > wrote: > >> He once called me on a noisy phone line about shipping the system to me, >>and when I commented ...

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Thread: BASIC-E

  1. Re: BASIC-E


    "Bob McConnell" wrote in message
    news:lbqdf39l1a0u7aoo20262mktvedma7m0pd@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:39:21 -0700, "Thomas \"Todd\" Fischer"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> He once called me on a noisy phone line about shipping the system to me,
    >>and when I commented on the apparent distance, he said that he was on a
    >>submarine! I always wondered if he was pulling my leg, and am now
    >>inclined
    >>to assume that to be the case.

    >
    > I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Any US Navy vessel
    > was capable and eligible to use the commercial ship to shore marine
    > radio-telephone circuits. They were short wave, and tended to have
    > static with some fade out if the distance was more than a couple
    > hundred miles. I set up a few personal calls in my time.
    >
    > Bob McConnell
    > N2SPP
    > Ex-RM2
    > NFIT (USS Cochrane DDG21)
    > Aug 70-Apr 74
    >


    Thanks for the clarification, Bob! The leg cramps are easing as I write!



  2. Re: BASIC-E

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    > Let me add one thing to my last comment (see the message preceeding this
    > one). Thinking about it, my comments were correct, but I also now
    > recall that somewhat later (in the 1980's, not the 1970's when both
    > Basic-E and C-Basic first came out), DR did in fact release an
    > additional, separate product, a native code compiler for C-Basic.
    >
    > So maybe we are both right; but I still don't think it was what the "C"
    > in C-Basic stood for.


    In addition to the C-Basic 80, which compiled an intermediate RTL then
    was executed with a Run executable, DRI did in fact create a fully
    compiled version of C-Basic. These were CB-80 and CB-86. The output of
    both were native code executables.

  3. Re: BASIC-E


    "Udo Munk" wrote in message
    newsan.2007.09.21.19.17.31.566711@unix4fun.org...
    > On CPMUG disk volumes 29 & 30 you'll find the sources for Gordon Eubanks
    > BASIC-E compiler from 1976, which was modified later by Gary Kildall.
    >
    > There are no instructions about how to build compiler and runtime from the
    > sources and the precompiled binaries are for crap. I've created submit
    > scripts to rebuild the compiler and runtime from the sources using my
    > ISIS tool disks. I also added a bunch of BASIC programs from the CPMUG
    > volumes to play with.
    >
    > A harddisk image with sources, executables and examples is available at:
    > http://www.unix4fun.org/z80pack/
    >
    > Enjoy,
    > Udo Munk
    > --
    > The fun is building it and then using it.
    >

    Wow! In reading through some of the old archival documents from the
    earliest days of IMSAI and Fischer-Freitas, I came across a letter from the
    Law Offices of Schroeder & Davis Inc.. It was addressed to me dated
    November 17, 1981, and signed by G. Gervaise Davis III, Kildall's legal
    mentor and representative for all things legal and revenue-generating.

    The letter reads in part:

    "I understand from talking with Gary Kildall of Digital Research that you
    and he have agreed that your company, as the successor in interest to the
    software of Imsai Manufacturing Corp., has no objection to Digital Research
    picking up the development and marketing of the former Imsai 8K BASIC
    Interpreter of which our clients have copies of the source, as I think
    several other people do, so long as in any documentation for the language
    they simply give credit to the fact that this BASIC originally came from
    Imsai and is developed by Digital at its own expense with the consent of
    Fischer-Freitas." Damn! I wish I hadn't drank so much with Gary that
    afternoon!

    I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    developers".

    I'll have to dig up and peruse some related folders and documents in our
    files to get a better insight into how this all evolved, but I strongly
    believe that the product we listed in our early catalogues as BASIC-E was
    the renamed BASICI1, and that the "E" extension was a nod to Gordon's
    contributions.



  4. Re: BASIC-E

    On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:05:56 -0700, Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:

    ....
    > I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    > files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    > I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    > immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    > the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    > operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    > the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    > of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    > employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    > developers".


    Probably it's written in PL/M-80 same as BASIC-E.

    Udo Munk
    --
    The fun is building it and then using it.


  5. Re: BASIC-E

    Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:

    (snip)

    > I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    > immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    > the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    > operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977.


    HASP was the spooling system used with OS/360 and successors.

    It was common in those days to use cross assemblers on larger
    systems to assemble 8080 code. Microsoft used PDP-10s.

    I knew people around 1977 that used the OS/360 assembler with
    macros for each 8080 instruction, and then post processors to
    generate the appropriate listing and object file.

    -- glen


  6. Re: BASIC-E

    On Sep 24, 5:32 pm, Udo Munk wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:05:56 -0700, Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:
    >
    > > I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    > > files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    > > I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    > > immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    > > the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    > > operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    > > the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    > > of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    > > employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    > > developers".

    >
    > Probably it's written in PL/M-80 same as BASIC-E. - Udo Munk


    I looked at my IMSAI archives and reviewed a few relevant manuals. I
    sent details to Todd Fischer for further comments and to jog his
    memory. In brief, BASIC-E came as a compiler and as an interpreter.
    The versions 2.1 and 2.2 manual includes a photocopy of theEubanks
    and Naval school manual from December 1976. The IMSAI manual is dated
    Jan 1977 and for IMDOS V2.03 (related to CP/M V1.2 and 1.3). I saw no
    immediate reference to source language.

    C BASIC was available by IMSAI in late 1977or early 1978, as a
    compiler and interpreter which runs under IMDOS. So suggests the user
    manual. No info was obvious about the authors or the source language.
    I"d have to compare the manual to BASIC-E to see if they are obviously
    similar, someone would have to compare object files. A "BASIC-8A
    version 1.4" manual from early 1977 includes the 8080 source code, and
    is strictly for paper tape or cassette file storage, and is ROMable.

    Again, I've sent Todd the details, he may be able to fill in the
    blanks. It's possible a press release or article from the period will
    have more information about these products.

    Herb Johnson

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"



  7. Re: BASIC-E

    HASP is the "Houston Automatic Spooling Priority" system; it's just the
    print spooler from an IBM mainframe computer. Most likely, the printout
    was the result of a cross-compiler on an IBM mainframe (it would have
    been a System 370, most likely). That was just a job separator page.

    I have a copy of the IMSAI 8K basic that I bought in 1977 on tape for an
    Imsai MIO board (I'm not sure if I still have the tape or not). I also
    have the source code, which came as a printed listing, in CP/M .ASM
    format. I'm not sure where this came from, I might have created it
    myself or I might have found it somewhere. But, in any case, I have it
    (I have not compared this to the paper source code listing).

    I also have SCS-1, which I did key in myself. I know that I put this in
    the Harte library (I may have put the 8K basic there as well).

    One thing I am looking for is an "add-on" for SCS-1 that was called SCS
    0.5, and it was the product of a group in Tallahassee, Florida. I
    bought it and used it extensively, and I should have it but I can't find
    it anywhere.

    Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:
    > "Udo Munk" wrote in message
    > newsan.2007.09.21.19.17.31.566711@unix4fun.org...
    >> On CPMUG disk volumes 29 & 30 you'll find the sources for Gordon Eubanks
    >> BASIC-E compiler from 1976, which was modified later by Gary Kildall.
    >>
    >> There are no instructions about how to build compiler and runtime from the
    >> sources and the precompiled binaries are for crap. I've created submit
    >> scripts to rebuild the compiler and runtime from the sources using my
    >> ISIS tool disks. I also added a bunch of BASIC programs from the CPMUG
    >> volumes to play with.
    >>
    >> A harddisk image with sources, executables and examples is available at:
    >> http://www.unix4fun.org/z80pack/
    >>
    >> Enjoy,
    >> Udo Munk
    >> --
    >> The fun is building it and then using it.
    >>

    > Wow! In reading through some of the old archival documents from the
    > earliest days of IMSAI and Fischer-Freitas, I came across a letter from the
    > Law Offices of Schroeder & Davis Inc.. It was addressed to me dated
    > November 17, 1981, and signed by G. Gervaise Davis III, Kildall's legal
    > mentor and representative for all things legal and revenue-generating.
    >
    > The letter reads in part:
    >
    > "I understand from talking with Gary Kildall of Digital Research that you
    > and he have agreed that your company, as the successor in interest to the
    > software of Imsai Manufacturing Corp., has no objection to Digital Research
    > picking up the development and marketing of the former Imsai 8K BASIC
    > Interpreter of which our clients have copies of the source, as I think
    > several other people do, so long as in any documentation for the language
    > they simply give credit to the fact that this BASIC originally came from
    > Imsai and is developed by Digital at its own expense with the consent of
    > Fischer-Freitas." Damn! I wish I hadn't drank so much with Gary that
    > afternoon!
    >
    > I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    > files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    > I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    > immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    > the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    > operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    > the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    > of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    > employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    > developers".
    >
    > I'll have to dig up and peruse some related folders and documents in our
    > files to get a better insight into how this all evolved, but I strongly
    > believe that the product we listed in our early catalogues as BASIC-E was
    > the renamed BASICI1, and that the "E" extension was a nod to Gordon's
    > contributions.
    >
    >


  8. Re: BASIC-E

    The IMSAI 8K basic was written in CP/M assembler.


    Udo Munk wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:05:56 -0700, Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:
    >
    > ...
    >> I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    >> files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    >> I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    >> immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    >> the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    >> operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    >> the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    >> of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    >> employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    >> developers".

    >
    > Probably it's written in PL/M-80 same as BASIC-E.
    >
    > Udo Munk


  9. Re: BASIC-E

    Herb, I think you misunderstand the description of Basic-E and C-Basic
    as being available as a "compiler and an interpreter".

    There was compiler that compiled to P-Code. Then there was a run-time
    interpreter that interpreted the P-Code. However, there was not ...
    until about 4 to 6 years later .... a native code compiler. The term
    "compiler and interpreter" doesn't have the meaning that one would at
    first assume, e.g. it does not mean that the language was available in
    both an interpreted form and a compiled form (at that time).

    Also, Basic-E was available with Imsai's original release of CP/M 1.33
    for the dual Calcomp system in 1976. This was a year or two before
    IMDOS even existed. C-Basic came later, and was partially an attempt by
    Gordon to be able to extract some revenue from his work on Basic-E
    (anyone think that the E stood for Eubank?). Since Basic-E was public
    domain, he had to "do something" to create a commercial product which he
    would own and could therefore sell. My understanding (and recollection)
    is that "something" was primarily replacing the floating point math with
    BCD math so that the product could be used for accounting and financial
    calculations (floating point produces rounding errors in math
    operations, e.g. $19.95 + $32.49 might not result in $52.54, but rather
    52.539999, which might come out as $52.53 ... a one-cent error). Other
    than that, I think that Basic-E and C-Basic were substantially identical.


    Herb Johnson wrote:
    > On Sep 24, 5:32 pm, Udo Munk wrote:
    >> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:05:56 -0700, Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:
    >>
    >>> I had forgotten about this after so many years, so went back into the older
    >>> files and found the source code listing for what we then titled "BASICI1".
    >>> I am a Neanderthal with regard to programming languages and can't
    >>> immediately tell what language this was written in, but the listing bears
    >>> the legend "HASP SYSTEM LOG", and lists Gordon Eubanks as the session
    >>> operator. It is dated 12 JAN 1977. My guess is that Gordon wrote this at
    >>> the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA. I have a vague recollection
    >>> of building an IMSAI 8080 with FDC-2 (dual 8" CalComp disk drives) while
    >>> employed at IMSAI, and that this system was being built for "one of our
    >>> developers".

    >> Probably it's written in PL/M-80 same as BASIC-E. - Udo Munk

    >
    > I looked at my IMSAI archives and reviewed a few relevant manuals. I
    > sent details to Todd Fischer for further comments and to jog his
    > memory. In brief, BASIC-E came as a compiler and as an interpreter.
    > The versions 2.1 and 2.2 manual includes a photocopy of theEubanks
    > and Naval school manual from December 1976. The IMSAI manual is dated
    > Jan 1977 and for IMDOS V2.03 (related to CP/M V1.2 and 1.3). I saw no
    > immediate reference to source language.
    >
    > C BASIC was available by IMSAI in late 1977or early 1978, as a
    > compiler and interpreter which runs under IMDOS. So suggests the user
    > manual. No info was obvious about the authors or the source language.
    > I"d have to compare the manual to BASIC-E to see if they are obviously
    > similar, someone would have to compare object files. A "BASIC-8A
    > version 1.4" manual from early 1977 includes the 8080 source code, and
    > is strictly for paper tape or cassette file storage, and is ROMable.
    >
    > Again, I've sent Todd the details, he may be able to fill in the
    > blanks. It's possible a press release or article from the period will
    > have more information about these products.
    >
    > Herb Johnson
    >
    > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    > http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    > my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    > if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    > "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    > S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
    >
    >


  10. Re: BASIC-E

    Barry Watzman wrote:

    > Herb, I think you misunderstand the description of Basic-E and C-Basic
    > as being available as a "compiler and an interpreter".


    > There was compiler that compiled to P-Code. Then there was a run-time
    > interpreter that interpreted the P-Code. However, there was not ...
    > until about 4 to 6 years later .... a native code compiler.


    The compiler/interpreter distinction does not depend on the target
    being P-code or not. It is still a compiler.

    In many languages the distinction is important regarding what has
    to be known at compile time. As one example, many interpreters,
    and the language designed for them, allow one to select variables
    by name, such as the value of another variable, at run time.
    That property is usually not part of, or very limited, in
    compiled languages.

    But many systems, especially BASIC systems, are semi-compiled.
    Keywords are converted to single byte tokens as the program is
    entered. In some, a symbol table is generated to speed up
    variable allocation.

    I still remember a Tiny BASIC system known as Palo Alto Tiny
    BASIC (I knew the person working on it at the time) that allowed
    expressions as the input data for INPUT statements. This allowed
    alphabetic input such as:

    10 N=1
    20 Y=2
    25 PRINT "Type Y or N";
    30 INPUT X
    40 IF X=Y THEN 100


    I also knew a BASIC system that allowed one to modify a program
    while it was running, and continue on from that point.
    (Such as after it stopped due to an error or hitting the
    interrupt key.) Again an interpreter only property.

    Most compiled languages use a run-time library which, in the
    interpreter/compiler distinction, makes them not 100%
    compilers. Especially consider the processing of a FORMAT
    string in Fortran or some BASIC systems.

    The fact that P-code is interpreted doesn't make the program
    that generated the code an interpreter. Besides, one could always
    create hardware that would execute such code.

    -- glen



  11. Re: BASIC-E

    On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:57:12 -0700, Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:

    >
    > "Bob McConnell" wrote in message
    > news:lbqdf39l1a0u7aoo20262mktvedma7m0pd@4ax.com...
    >> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:39:21 -0700, "Thomas \"Todd\" Fischer"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> He once called me on a noisy phone line about shipping the system to me,
    >>>and when I commented on the apparent distance, he said that he was on a
    >>>submarine! I always wondered if he was pulling my leg, and am now
    >>>inclined
    >>>to assume that to be the case.

    >>
    >> I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Any US Navy vessel
    >> was capable and eligible to use the commercial ship to shore marine
    >> radio-telephone circuits. They were short wave, and tended to have
    >> static with some fade out if the distance was more than a couple
    >> hundred miles. I set up a few personal calls in my time.
    >>
    >> Bob McConnell
    >> N2SPP
    >> Ex-RM2
    >> NFIT (USS Cochrane DDG21)
    >> Aug 70-Apr 74
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for the clarification, Bob! The leg cramps are easing as I write!


    There is a long interview about that time with Gordon Eubanks archived at:
    http://www.cwheroes.org/archives/histories/Eubanks.pdf
    There he says he was doing Navy service on submarines, so that probably
    was truth.

    Udo Munk
    --
    The fun is building it and then using it.


  12. Re: BASIC-E

    On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:45:36 -0700, Herb Johnson wrote:

    ....
    > Again, I've sent Todd the details, he may be able to fill in the
    > blanks. It's possible a press release or article from the period will
    > have more information about these products.


    Here is a bit more information:
    http://www.vannattabros.com/history3.html

    Udo Munk
    --
    The fun is building it and then using it.


  13. Re: BASIC-E

    On Sep 25, 12:25 am, Barry Watzman wrote:
    > Herb, I think you misunderstand the description of Basic-E and C-Basic
    > as being available as a "compiler and an interpreter".
    >
    > There was compiler that compiled to P-Code. Then there was a run-time
    > interpreter that interpreted the P-Code. However, there was not ...
    > until about 4 to 6 years later .... a native code compiler. The term
    > "compiler and interpreter" doesn't have the meaning that one would at
    > first assume, e.g. it does not mean that the language was available in
    > both an interpreted form and a compiled form (at that time).


    Barry is mostly correct. BASIC-E and CBASIC were released as a pair of
    programs. One was called a compiler; it
    converted the BASIC source to an intermediate form. The other was
    called a "run-time interpreter"; that actually RAN the precompiled
    code. This saved space and execution time - both very scarce resources
    back then! I'm sorry my quick read of the manual led to some
    confusion.

    But, there were also BASIC interpreters at the time, into which one
    could type a program or statement and execute it (or them). CBASIC and
    BASIC-E were not of that sort.

    > Also, Basic-E was available with Imsai's original release of CP/M 1.33
    > for the dual Calcomp system in 1976. This was a year or two before
    > IMDOS even existed.


    A BASIC-E was released with IMDOS 2.02. My IMDOS manuals with BASIC-E
    are dated January 1978. However,
    BASIC-E was written years prior, and available with CP/M. The IMDOS
    BASIC-E manual includes a copy of the Naval Postgraduate School copy
    of the BASIC-E manual of Dec 1976, which internally refers to CP/M.
    BASIC- E was the 1975? master's thesis of Gordon Eubanks, working
    under Dr. Gary Kildall, while both were part of the Naval Postgraduate
    School.

    > C-Basic came later, and was partially an attempt by
    > Gordon to be able to extract some revenue from his work on Basic-E
    > (anyone think that the E stood for Eubank?). Since Basic-E was public
    > domain, he had to "do something" to create a commercial product which he
    > would own and could therefore sell. My understanding (and recollection)
    > is that "something" was primarily replacing the floating point math with
    > BCD math ...


    And, in fact, BASIC-E and CBASIC document that have different ways to
    represent numbers or values. That's clear from my reading each of the
    manuals I've mentioned. BASIC-E uses "binary floating point...[to] 7
    signifigant digits" (says IMSAI). CBASIC "features 14-digit
    arithmetic", says that manual. The authors of CBASIC are not mentioned
    in the IMSAI manual. But a web link posted by Udo Munk later in this
    thread, refers to a year 2000 interview transcript of Gordon Eubanks.
    In that interview he describes how and why he wrote CBASIC under a
    company he formed called "Compiler Systems", which sold CBASIC rights
    to IMSAI, and which was eventually bought by Digital Research.

    Thanks, Barry and Udo! Thanks also to Todd Fischer, which whom I'm in
    private correspondence. Ultimately some subset of this information
    will be added to my DRI Web site as part of that history.

    Herb Johnson

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"



  14. Re: BASIC-E

    *Barry Watzman* wrote on Sun, 07-09-23 01:55:
    >SCREW YOU.


    No thanks, but thanks for the offer all the same.

    N.B: The issue is NOT about top or bottom posting, though that is an
    important side-effect, but it is about sensibly snipped quoting and
    mindless fullquoting. Of course when someone decides to spew pages and
    pages of stuff people have read already and have available for
    reference at a keystroke through threading, then top posting is the
    only way to make that rubbish legible.

    But in sensible and considerate posts top or bottom posting does not
    make a difference big enough to be concerned about.

    There is one more thing about bottom posting though: It makes it easier
    for me to ignore full quoted posts when all I see is a complete screen
    of all quote. Top posting fullquoters hide their utter disregard for
    their readers just that little bit better.

    Axel


  15. Re: BASIC-E


    "Thomas "Todd" Fischer" wrote in message
    news:13f8gbmi9hijq16@corp.supernews.com...
    > Hello Barry-
    >
    > My recall is the "C" version stood for "compiler", rather than
    > "commercial". I may be wrong since it's been a long time since I played
    > with it, but I seem to remember that the edited code had to be processed
    > by a compiler that rendered the final code. Please correct me if I'm
    > wrong about this.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > -Thomas "Todd" Fischer
    >
    >
    > "Barry Watzman" wrote in message
    > news:46f423cf$0$11018$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    >> Basic-E was the free version, C-Basic (Commercial Basic) was the
    >> "commercial" version that was a product. The primary difference was that
    >> C-Basic had BDC decimal arithmetic ... no rounding errors when used for
    >> dollars and cents financial transactions.
    >>

    (snip)

    John C. Dvorak provides a concise and probably accurate history of C BASIC's
    relatively brief existence at http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8221



  16. Re: BASIC-E

    With permission and references, I've added information from this
    discussion and from my own archives to a document on my Web site:

    http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/dri_basic.html

    which puts Eubanks' CBASIC and BASIC-E work in the context of Digital
    Research's history. Thanks to all for the discussion. It's part of a
    larger early history of Digital Research and CP/M which I have on my
    Web site at this link:

    http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/d_dri.html

    which in part is also drawn from comp.os.cpm discussions. Thank you.

    Herb Johnson

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"


  17. Re: BASIC-E


    "Herb Johnson" wrote in message
    news:1191374816.874879.86350@d55g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
    > With permission and references, I've added information from this
    > discussion and from my own archives to a document on my Web site:
    >
    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/dri_basic.html
    >
    > which puts Eubanks' CBASIC and BASIC-E work in the context of Digital
    > Research's history. Thanks to all for the discussion. It's part of a
    > larger early history of Digital Research and CP/M which I have on my
    > Web site at this link:
    >
    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/d_dri.html
    >
    > which in part is also drawn from comp.os.cpm discussions. Thank you.
    >
    > Herb Johnson

    (snip)

    Nice work, Herb! One correction in your web site posting, though... IMSAI
    Manufacturing filed for bancruptcy in 1979; not 1981. But then, you knew
    that!

    Regards,

    -Thomas "Todd" Fischer



  18. Re: BASIC-E

    Hello Herb,

    Herb Johnson schrieb:

    >http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/dri_basic.html


    >http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/d_dri.html


    Thank for your Info.

    Rolf


  19. Re: BASIC-E

    Hello Herb,

    Herb Johnson schrieb:

    >http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/dri_basic.html


    >http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/d_dri.html


    Thank for your Info.

    Rolf


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