Question: Microsolutions Parallel port floppy

I won a Microsolutions Backpack parallel port 1.2MB 5.25" drive on E-Bay.

However, it has no power adapter, no cable and no drivers.

I ***THINK*** I have the drivers and a cable; I have a Microsolutions
3.5" 1.44MB parallel port drive new in box, as well as a Microsolutions
tape drive (with cable and power adapter), and I downloaded the
Microsolutions files about 2 years ago, although I'm not sure that I
have the right ones.

Does anyone know what power supply this takes? I actually have two
Microsolutions power units here, one is 22vac and the other is 13.7vac,
one for the 1.44 drive and one for the tape drive, but the 5.25" drive
may be different from either of these. Also, does anyone else have
(with absolute certainty) the correct drivers?

Thanks,
Barry Watzman

On Sep 6, 3:49 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> I won a Microsolutions Backpack parallel port 1.2MB 5.25" drive on E-Bay.
>
> However, it has no power adapter, no cable and no drivers.
>
> I ***THINK*** I have the drivers and a cable; I have a Microsolutions
> 3.5" 1.44MB parallel port drive new in box, as well as a Microsolutions
> tape drive (with cable and power adapter), and I downloaded the
> Microsolutions files about 2 years ago, although I'm not sure that I
> have the right ones.
>
> Does anyone know what power supply this takes? I actually have two
> Microsolutions power units here, one is 22vac and the other is 13.7vac,
> one for the 1.44 drive and one for the tape drive, but the 5.25" drive
> may be different from either of these. Also, does anyone else have
> (with absolute certainty) the correct drivers?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry Watzman[/color]

Hi Barry,
Good for you on winning the Ebay auction on this gem. I hope you have
the best of luck with the unit.

I think the parallel port floppy is the best chance to make a portable
5.25" floppy disk reader.

Unfortunately I cannot help you too much in the getting your drive
working but I can suggest to examine the circuit board.

If you find a bridge rectifier and a voltage regulator, it almost
certainly requires some AC adaptor. I would expect that to power a
12V/5V floppy disk drive, the power adaptor would have to be at a
minimum 14V VAC just to drive the conversion circuit. If you do not
see a bridge rectifier, it may just use 12 VDC but I suspect it will
require a more powerful AC adaptor and have a bridge rectifier or two
to convert the AC to DC 12V/5V. However, it is just a guess.

I would inspect the circuit card for clues.

In any event, please keep us posted on your progress with the portable
5.25" reader. A working solution could make archiving the old CP/M
floppy disks a lot easier. I will keep looking myself for a similar
unit.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

Interesting story on this, by the way. I've been watching these
(Microsolutions parallel port 5.25" floppy drives) for years. They go
for a LOT of money (as much as $200). This one was ill-described, and
missing the cable and AC adapter, just the disk unit itself, period.
And I picked it up for $4.99.

I think I will probably be able to get it working, since I have the 3.5"
parallel port floppy. The cable and perhaps the power supplies are
likely the same (not a given on the power supply, since the 3.5" drive
doesn't need 12 volts; but it's supply is 13.7 vac).


[email]lynchaj@yahoo.com[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sep 6, 3:49 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> I won a Microsolutions Backpack parallel port 1.2MB 5.25" drive on E-Bay.
>>
>> However, it has no power adapter, no cable and no drivers.
>>
>> I ***THINK*** I have the drivers and a cable; I have a Microsolutions
>> 3.5" 1.44MB parallel port drive new in box, as well as a Microsolutions
>> tape drive (with cable and power adapter), and I downloaded the
>> Microsolutions files about 2 years ago, although I'm not sure that I
>> have the right ones.
>>
>> Does anyone know what power supply this takes? I actually have two
>> Microsolutions power units here, one is 22vac and the other is 13.7vac,
>> one for the 1.44 drive and one for the tape drive, but the 5.25" drive
>> may be different from either of these. Also, does anyone else have
>> (with absolute certainty) the correct drivers?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Barry Watzman[/color]
>
> Hi Barry,
> Good for you on winning the Ebay auction on this gem. I hope you have
> the best of luck with the unit.
>
> I think the parallel port floppy is the best chance to make a portable
> 5.25" floppy disk reader.
>
> Unfortunately I cannot help you too much in the getting your drive
> working but I can suggest to examine the circuit board.
>
> If you find a bridge rectifier and a voltage regulator, it almost
> certainly requires some AC adaptor. I would expect that to power a
> 12V/5V floppy disk drive, the power adaptor would have to be at a
> minimum 14V VAC just to drive the conversion circuit. If you do not
> see a bridge rectifier, it may just use 12 VDC but I suspect it will
> require a more powerful AC adaptor and have a bridge rectifier or two
> to convert the AC to DC 12V/5V. However, it is just a guess.
>
> I would inspect the circuit card for clues.
>
> In any event, please keep us posted on your progress with the portable
> 5.25" reader. A working solution could make archiving the old CP/M
> floppy disks a lot easier. I will keep looking myself for a similar
> unit.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
>[/color]

On Sep 7, 11:08 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> Interesting story on this, by the way. I've been watching these
> (Microsolutions parallel port 5.25" floppy drives) for years. They go
> for a LOT of money (as much as $200). This one was ill-described, and
> missing the cable and AC adapter, just the disk unit itself, period.
> And I picked it up for $4.99.
>
> I think I will probably be able to get it working, since I have the 3.5"
> parallel port floppy. The cable and perhaps the power supplies are
> likely the same (not a given on the power supply, since the 3.5" drive
> doesn't need 12 volts; but it's supply is 13.7 vac).
>
>
>
> lync...@yahoo.com wrote:[color=green]
> > On Sep 6, 3:49 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> I won a Microsolutions Backpack parallel port 1.2MB 5.25" drive on E-Bay.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> However, it has no power adapter, no cable and no drivers.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I ***THINK*** I have the drivers and a cable; I have a Microsolutions
> >> 3.5" 1.44MB parallel port drive new in box, as well as a Microsolutions
> >> tape drive (with cable and power adapter), and I downloaded the
> >> Microsolutions files about 2 years ago, although I'm not sure that I
> >> have the right ones.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Does anyone know what power supply this takes? I actually have two
> >> Microsolutions power units here, one is 22vac and the other is 13.7vac,
> >> one for the 1.44 drive and one for the tape drive, but the 5.25" drive
> >> may be different from either of these. Also, does anyone else have
> >> (with absolute certainty) the correct drivers?[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Thanks,
> >> Barry Watzman[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > Hi Barry,
> > Good for you on winning the Ebay auction on this gem. I hope you have
> > the best of luck with the unit.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > I think the parallel port floppy is the best chance to make a portable
> > 5.25" floppy disk reader.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Unfortunately I cannot help you too much in the getting your drive
> > working but I can suggest to examine the circuit board.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > If you find a bridge rectifier and a voltage regulator, it almost
> > certainly requires some AC adaptor. I would expect that to power a
> > 12V/5V floppy disk drive, the power adaptor would have to be at a
> > minimum 14V VAC just to drive the conversion circuit. If you do not
> > see a bridge rectifier, it may just use 12 VDC but I suspect it will
> > require a more powerful AC adaptor and have a bridge rectifier or two
> > to convert the AC to DC 12V/5V. However, it is just a guess.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > I would inspect the circuit card for clues.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > In any event, please keep us posted on your progress with the portable
> > 5.25" reader. A working solution could make archiving the old CP/M
> > floppy disks a lot easier. I will keep looking myself for a similar
> > unit.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Thanks![/color]
>[color=green]
> > Andrew Lynch- Hide quoted text -[/color]
>
> - Show quoted text -[/color]

I have an external Imation 3.5" SuperDisk parallel port floppy and
would like to get a similar regular 5.25" floppy disk. There was a
poster in an earlier thread who was looking for a USB external 5.25"
floppy disk but unless someone is going to design and build it, I
think the parallel port method is probably the best bet.

Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you found? I
have several searches going on Ebay such as external floppy,
microsolutions, etc and have never seen the external floppy.
Certainly given how scarce these items are it is worth the investment
to get it working.

I would very much like to find the original Microsolutions designers
since I have lots of questions for them and would very much like to
talk to them. Most recently, I was looking at my MatchPoint PC card
and thinking it is a shame its design and software are both closed and
lost to the world. I'd bet if I could find one of the original
Microsolutions people they would "free" the design up to help us
interested in vintage computers and data recovery.

The MatchPoint PC card issue is tangential to the external floppy
drive but they both stem from a common root: making disk images of old
vintage computer disks is a challenge and I need some more and better
tools.

Best of luck with your floppy drive. You really scored with it!

Andrew Lynch

Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you found?"

After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"

I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"

Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.


[email]lynchaj@yahoo.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> I have an external Imation 3.5" SuperDisk parallel port floppy and
> would like to get a similar regular 5.25" floppy disk. There was a
> poster in an earlier thread who was looking for a USB external 5.25"
> floppy disk but unless someone is going to design and build it, I
> think the parallel port method is probably the best bet.
>
> Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you found? I
> have several searches going on Ebay such as external floppy,
> microsolutions, etc and have never seen the external floppy.
> Certainly given how scarce these items are it is worth the investment
> to get it working.
>
> I would very much like to find the original Microsolutions designers
> since I have lots of questions for them and would very much like to
> talk to them. Most recently, I was looking at my MatchPoint PC card
> and thinking it is a shame its design and software are both closed and
> lost to the world. I'd bet if I could find one of the original
> Microsolutions people they would "free" the design up to help us
> interested in vintage computers and data recovery.
>
> The MatchPoint PC card issue is tangential to the external floppy
> drive but they both stem from a common root: making disk images of old
> vintage computer disks is a challenge and I need some more and better
> tools.
>
> Best of luck with your floppy drive. You really scored with it!
>
> Andrew Lynch
>[/color]

Barry Watzman was snippedas requesting
[color=blue]
>Does anyone know what power supply
>this takes?
>Also, does anyone else have (with
>absolute certainty) the correct drivers?[/color]

Hi Barry,
I have a 5.25" Backpack, Model 1231. The power supply for this unit is a
Class 2 Transformer, Model 41A - 13.7 - 800.
Output is 13.7 VAC - 800mA.

I've made up a 3.5" fd w the drivers, docs and notes that I've found so
far. I'm still searching for some of the utilities.

If you send me your mailing address, I'll
send the disk to you.

Regards,
John T

Barry Watzman wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you found?"
>
> After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"
> I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"
> Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.[/color]

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

--
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
<http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

I'm going to post any damn way I can please. If you don't like it,
don't read my messages.


CBFalconer wrote:[color=blue]
> Barry Watzman wrote:[color=green]
>> Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you found?"
>>
>> After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"
>> I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"
>> Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.[/color]
>
> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>[/color]

I have to agree with you, Barry, just in case you cared...

JimT

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46e5b521$0$28841$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...[color=blue]
> I'm going to post any damn way I can please. If you don't like it, don't
> read my messages.
>
>
> CBFalconer wrote:[color=green]
>> Barry Watzman wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you
>>> found?"
>>>
>>> After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"
>>> I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"
>>> Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.[/color]
>>
>> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
>> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
>> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>>[/color][/color]

I agree. I would much rather read a top post than pages and
pages of history followed by a few lines of new post. I probably
won't page down that far, anyway so there is no point in writing
down there. As with computer programs, one should look to the
optimal readability. Sometimes that is top posting.
If there is no likely follow up (no questions being asked)
it isn't so important to be at the bottom.

For my posts, I try to put a reasonably amount of context,
but not much more than that. If I can get it in one or two
pages, and follow up at the bottom, that is my preference.

-- glen



Barry Watzman wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'm going to post any damn way I can please. If you don't like it,
> don't read my messages.[/color]
[color=blue]
> CBFalconer wrote:[/color]

(snip)[color=blue][color=green]
>> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
>> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
>> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>>[/color][/color]

Barry Watzman wrote:[color=blue]
> I'm going to post any damn way I can please. If you don't like it,
> don't read my messages.[/color]

Well, if that's the way you want it...

Remember: on Usenet, text is cheap. If you want to be read, you have to be
readable. If you can't be bothered to have the courtesy the trim and format
your messages for clarity and relevance, why should I be bothered to readwhat
you have to say? Remember, my finger is hovering over the 'N' key, and there's
several hundred more messages waiting...

--
┌── ｄｇï¼*ｃï½�ｗｌï½�ｒｋ．ｃï½�ï½� ─── [url]http://www.cowlark.com[/url] ───────────────────
│
│ "There does not now, nor will there ever, exist a programming language in
│ which it is the least bit hard to write bad programs." --- Flon's Axiom

On Sep 11, 6:06 pm, David Given <d...@cowlark.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> Barry Watzman wrote:[color=green]
> > I'm going to post any damn way I can please. If you don't like it,
> > don't read my messages.[/color]
>
> Well, if that's the way you want it...
>
> Remember: on Usenet, text is cheap. If you want to be read, you have to be
> readable. If you can't be bothered to have the courtesy the trim and format
> your messages for clarity and relevance, why should I be bothered to read what
> you have to say? Remember, my finger is hovering over the 'N' key, and there's
> several hundred more messages waiting...
>[/color]

Well, count me among those who agree with Barry. I certainly find top-
posting easier and quicker to read most of the time; instead of rigid
rules, whatever's appropriate to the situation.

As to your not bothering to read B's messages, well, that's exactly
what Barry suggested. However, since the majority of messages are
replies to an original question, reading them is usually of more
importance to the reader than the sender, so it may well be your loss.

I'd always assumed that old-time computer types were generally a
pretty laid-back bunch, ready to break any rules if it meant getting
access to the mainframe and more interested in efficient solutions
than rigid protocols; joining a few classic computer lists has
certainly been an eye-opener...

m

MikeS wrote:
[...][color=blue]
> Well, count me among those who agree with Barry. I certainly find top-
> posting easier and quicker to read most of the time; instead of rigid
> rules, whatever's appropriate to the situation.[/color]

Usually the Golden Rule is to do whatever everyone else is doing --- for
example, in work environments, top-posting *is* normally appropriate, because
that's the norm.

The reason why people tend to get ticked off about it on Usenet is that using
a *combination* makes a total hash of the history. You end up without the
contextual advantages and conciseness of cut-and-interleave *and* withoutthe
complete thread history of top-posting. *shrug*

[...][color=blue]
> I'd always assumed that old-time computer types were generally a
> pretty laid-back bunch, ready to break any rules if it meant getting
> access to the mainframe and more interested in efficient solutions
> than rigid protocols; joining a few classic computer lists has
> certainly been an eye-opener...[/color]

Hell hath no fury like two people arguing about some trivial little detail
that noone else in the *entire universe* cares about...

--
┌── ｄｇï¼*ｃï½�ｗｌï½�ｒｋ．ｃï½�ï½� ─── [url]http://www.cowlark.com[/url] ───────────────────
│
│ "There does not now, nor will there ever, exist a programming language in
│ which it is the least bit hard to write bad programs." --- Flon's Axiom

I don't have an issue with top posting or bottom posting, but I have a
huge issue with people who [mistakenly] think that they are God [of the
Internet] and who go around telling other people how to act.

Barry Watzman wrote:[color=blue]
>
> I don't have an issue with top posting or bottom posting, but I
> have a huge issue with people who [mistakenly] think that they
> are God [of the Internet] and who go around telling other people
> how to act.[/color]

Following is a complete quoted copy of the message I posted to
you. It seems to me to be more accurately described as a request
to follow normal Usenet protocol than as a 'telling people how to
act'. It also gives references, with reasons for the protocol.
[color=blue]
> Barry Watzman wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you
>> found?"
>>
>> After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"
>> I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"
>> Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.[/color]
>
> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>
> --
> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
> <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
> <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
> <http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)[/color]

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

David Given wrote:

(snip)
[color=blue]
> Usually the Golden Rule is to do whatever everyone else is doing --- for
> example, in work environments, top-posting *is* normally appropriate, because
> that's the norm.[/color]
[color=blue]
> The reason why people tend to get ticked off about it on Usenet is that using
> a *combination* makes a total hash of the history. You end up without the
> contextual advantages and conciseness of cut-and-interleave *and* without the
> complete thread history of top-posting. *shrug*[/color]

(snip)

I would say that top posting should normally be done only for posts
that don't ask a question, and so no follow up should be expected.
In the case of discussing top posting, I end up with a follow-up to
one without a question (the implied question about top posting itself).

The right thing to do is the appropriate amount of snip such that one
can follow the discussion without needing to read hundreds of lines of
old posts. If one can't bother to do that, and wants to make a one
line comment that doesn't seem to ask a question, I would rather see it
as a top post.

-- glen

On Sep 12, 4:31 pm, David Given <d...@cowlark.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> MikeS wrote:
>
> [...]
>[color=green]
> > Well, count me among those who agree with Barry. I certainly find top-
> > posting easier and quicker to read most of the time; instead of rigid
> > rules, whatever's appropriate to the situation.[/color]
>
> Usually the Golden Rule is to do whatever everyone else is doing --- for
> example, in work environments, top-posting *is* normally appropriate, because
> that's the norm.[/color]

Good point; the reason it's normal in work environments is probably
because, not being stuck with Usenet rules, people using email there
have discovered that top-posting is more efficient most of the time.

On the other hand, in personal communication where it's more like
leisurely conversation, cut-and-insert is usually the way to go.
[color=blue]
>
> The reason why people tend to get ticked off about it on Usenet is that using
> a *combination* makes a total hash of the history. You end up without the
> contextual advantages and conciseness of cut-and-interleave *and* without the
> complete thread history of top-posting. *shrug*
>[/color]

Well, since this is the Microsolutions Backpack thread, I'm not sure
that's important (at least in this case). Time to change the subject
line, or, better yet, just kill it ;-)
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > I'd always assumed that old-time computer types were generally a
> > pretty laid-back bunch, ready to break any rules if it meant getting
> > access to the mainframe and more interested in efficient solutions
> > than rigid protocols; joining a few classic computer lists has
> > certainly been an eye-opener...[/color]
>
> Hell hath no fury like two people arguing about some trivial little detail
> that noone else in the *entire universe* cares about...
>[/color]

Well, _there's_ a reason why cut-insert is better than top-posting.
When I show one of these threads to one of my non-computer friends,
they're even more amused when there are 9 or ten levels of chevrons...

Just interesting that some folks who were probably free thinkers and
rebels when it came to dress codes etc. seem to have become rule
enforcers. Then again, perhaps Falconer at al were IBM suits back
then... ;-)

mike

CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Barry Watzman wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> I don't have an issue with top posting or bottom posting, but I
>> have a huge issue with people who [mistakenly] think that they
>> are God [of the Internet] and who go around telling other people
>> how to act.[/color]
>
>Following is a complete quoted copy of the message I posted to
>you. It seems to me to be more accurately described as a request
>to follow normal Usenet protocol than as a 'telling people how to
>act'. It also gives references, with reasons for the protocol.
>[color=green]
>> Barry Watzman wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Re: "Do you mind sharing your Ebay search terms for the drive you
>>> found?"
>>>
>>> After experimenting for a long time, I settled on "Microsolutions"
>>> I have also used "backpack" and "external floppy"
>>> Microsolutions was co-founded by Mark Cuban.[/color]
>>
>> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
>> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
>> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>>
>> --
>> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
>> <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
>> <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
>> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
>> <http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)[/color]
>
>--
> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
> Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
> <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>[/color]

Chuck, I respect you as a
fine programming professional
and remain grateful for your
contributions to PD software,
but the notion of a "normal
Usenet protocol" expired many
years ago -- and flogging a
dead horse has never once
succeeded in reviving it.

Nowadays, most folks come to
Usenet from casual e-mail
usage, and they bring their
habits with them -- there's
nothing those of us who
remember Usenet from back
in the day can do about it
other than netcopping,
which is obnoxious and just
irritates the late adopters
who now comprise the vast
majority of newsgroup
posters.

MikeS wrote:
[...][color=blue]
> On the other hand, in personal communication where it's more like
> leisurely conversation, cut-and-insert is usually the way to go.[/color]

It's also important to remember --- cut-and-insert *is not a rule*. It's a
best practice. It's evolved over many, *many* years as the most effectiveway
of facilitating efficient communication on such an anarchic medium as Usenet.
When people ask (politely) that a poster uses cut-and-insert, they're trying
to help.

(Usenet threads tend to be much longer than on email, and messages appearall
over the place as updates arrive from machines that got their updates late,
and some messages may not turn up at all --- email threads are far more linear
and easier to follow by comparison.)

Cut-and-insert helps in two places: firstly, it helps the readers understand
what's going on; and secondly, it helps the author write clearly. Because
there's an emphasis on *trimming* the original message, and encourages the
author to be relevant to what was actually said, to reduce rather than extend
--- both of which result in more concise and easier to read messages --- and
most crucially of all, it *takes time*. Writing a two-sentence angry response
and hitting SEND takes ten seconds. Trimming the context of the original
message and deciding where best to respond may add another fifteen or twenty,
during which time the author may well change their mind. This is a good thing.

--
┌── ｄｇï¼*ｃï½�ｗｌï½�ｒｋ．ｃï½�ï½� ─── [url]http://www.cowlark.com[/url] ───────────────────
│
│ "There does not now, nor will there ever, exist a programming language in
│ which it is the least bit hard to write bad programs." --- Flon's Axiom

>On Sep 13, 8:00 pm, David Given <d...@cowlark.com> wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> MikeS wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> On the other hand, in personal communication where it's more like
>> leisurely conversation, cut-and-insert is usually the way to go.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> It's also important to remember --- cut-and-insert *is not a rule*. It's a
> best practice. It's evolved over many, *many* years as the most effective way
> of facilitating efficient communication on such an anarchic medium as Usenet.
> When people ask (politely) that a poster uses cut-and-insert, they're trying
> to help.[/color]

Ah, perhaps C.B.'s politeness just didn't come across; perhaps we need
a new emoticon...

On the other hand, if efficiency and thread integrity was so
important,
perhaps he could have changed the subject line on his original post.

<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>>Trimming the context of the original message and deciding where best
>>to respond may add another fifteen or twenty, during which time the
>>author may well change their mind. This is a good thing.[/color][/color]

Amen! There are times when it's taken me fifteen or twenty *minutes*
and I still changed my mind after pressing Send.

mike