CP/M bootable CD? - CP/M

This is a discussion on CP/M bootable CD? - CP/M ; >> I got to thinking (alway dangerous :-) Could one make a bootable CP/M >> CD, that could be put in any PC to "play" with CP/M? > Though it may not be quite what you had in mind, I ...

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Thread: CP/M bootable CD?

  1. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    >> I got to thinking (alway dangerous :-) Could one make a bootable CP/M
    >> CD, that could be put in any PC to "play" with CP/M?


    > Though it may not be quite what you had in mind, I created an MS-DOS
    > bootable CD with an emulator and CP/M running on it. The problem was that I
    > couldn't save anything. I fixed that by moving the whole works to a USB
    > thumb drive. This lets me work in CP/M and I can modify and save files. If
    > I need to extract something to put on my PC, I can export from the emulated
    > disk images to the FAT partition on the USB drive, and read it in DOS or
    > Wondows.
    >
    > FYI, this was done using a TRS-80 Model 4 emulator and an image of CP/M by
    > Montezuma Micro. The emulator, when run this way, also allows me to read and
    > write to 3.5" floppy disks, so I can move files between my real TRS-80 and
    > the PC.


    I WANT that! My first machine was a ModIV, running, in its later years,
    Z-System; but I STILL miss Monte's Window.

    On second thought, what's the diff between the original idea and, say,
    running MyZ80 under Virtual PC, other than portability? Or, as someone
    else suggested, making a DOS boot CD that autoexec's into MyZ80?

    CJ

  2. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    Lee Hart wrote:
    >>> Could one make a bootable CP/M CD, that could be put in any PC to
    >>> "play" with CP/M?


    >> Though it may not be quite what you had in mind, I created an MS-DOS
    >> bootable CD with an emulator and CP/M running on it. The problem was
    >> that I couldn't save anything. I fixed that by moving the whole works
    >> to a USB thumb drive. This lets me work in CP/M and I can modify and
    >> save files. If I need to extract something to put on my PC, I can
    >> export from the emulated disk images to the FAT partition on the USB
    >> drive, and read it in DOS or Wondows.


    Yes; that sounds like almost exactly what I'd want. The only difficulty
    is that the CD format would be a lot easier to copy, so others could
    "play" with it.

    So, we just need a way to save files on a floppy or hard drive or
    somewhere.

    CJE Culver wrote:
    > On second thought, what's the diff between the original idea and, say,
    > running MyZ80 under Virtual PC, other than portability? Or, as someone
    > else suggested, making a DOS boot CD that autoexec's into MyZ80?


    To me, the problem with the emulators I've tried so far is that they are
    "close" to the original, but not close enough to actually work.

    For example, I like the Heath H8/H89 computers. They typically used the
    H19 terminal, with its VT-52 ESC sequences and simple character
    graphics. Every word processor, editor, spreadsheet etc. for the H8/H89
    used these ESC sequences and graphics. But none of the emulators do; so
    they can't run Wordstar, Supercalc, PIE, Write-Hand-Man, or any other
    common programs. You are left with only the generic features that any
    CP/M computer had; ASM, ED, etc.
    --
    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget the perfect offering
    There is a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
    --
    Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

  3. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    Lee Hart wrote:

    > To me, the problem with the emulators I've tried so far is that they are
    > "close" to the original, but not close enough to actually work.
    > For example, I like the Heath H8/H89 computers. They typically used the
    > H19 terminal, with its VT-52 ESC sequences and simple character
    > graphics. Every word processor, editor, spreadsheet etc. for the H8/H89
    > used these ESC sequences and graphics. But none of the emulators do; so
    > they can't run Wordstar, Supercalc, PIE, Write-Hand-Man, or any other


    Aliados has optional vt-52 emulation and character translation for the
    Amstrad PCW character set (not very eye candy, but useful). Alternatively,
    you can configure wordstar and other programas for the terminal type used.

    --
    Salu2

  4. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    Lee Hart wrote:
    : For example, I like the Heath H8/H89 computers. They typically used the
    : H19 terminal, with its VT-52 ESC sequences and simple character
    : graphics. Every word processor, editor, spreadsheet etc. for the H8/H89
    : used these ESC sequences and graphics. But none of the emulators do; so
    : they can't run Wordstar, Supercalc, PIE, Write-Hand-Man, or any other
    : common programs. You are left with only the generic features that any
    : CP/M computer had; ASM, ED, etc.

    MYZ80 has multiple terminal emulations, selectable with TERMINAL.COM;
    TERMINAL VT52 may do what you require.

    --
    ------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html --------------------
    John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?"
    |SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show
    :-------------------------------------------------------------------------)

  5. Re: CP/M bootable CD?


    John Elliott wrote:
    > Lee Hart wrote:
    > : For example, I like the Heath H8/H89 computers. They typically used the
    > : H19 terminal, with its VT-52 ESC sequences and simple character
    > : graphics. Every word processor, editor, spreadsheet etc. for the H8/H89
    > : used these ESC sequences and graphics. But none of the emulators do; so
    > : they can't run Wordstar, Supercalc, PIE, Write-Hand-Man, or any other
    > : common programs. You are left with only the generic features that any
    > : CP/M computer had; ASM, ED, etc.
    >
    > MYZ80 has multiple terminal emulations, selectable with TERMINAL.COM;
    > TERMINAL VT52 may do what you require.
    >
    > --
    > ------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html --------------------
    > John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?"
    > |SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show
    > :-------------------------------------------------------------------------)


    Could you not create a bootable CD running CPM 86? That way you do not
    have to use an emulator?

    Bill H www.ts1000.us


  6. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    John Elliott wrote:
    > MYZ80 has multiple terminal emulations, selectable with TERMINAL.COM;
    > TERMINAL VT52 may do what you require.


    But (if I recall correctly), MYZ80's VT52 terminal emulation was
    woefully incomplete -- half the ESC sequences of a real VT52 (or Heath
    H19) were missing.
    --
    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget the perfect offering
    There is a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
    --
    Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

  7. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On 2006-03-09, Lee Hart wrote:
    > John Elliott wrote:
    >> MYZ80 has multiple terminal emulations, selectable with TERMINAL.COM;
    >> TERMINAL VT52 may do what you require.

    >
    > But (if I recall correctly), MYZ80's VT52 terminal emulation was
    > woefully incomplete -- half the ESC sequences of a real VT52 (or Heath
    > H19) were missing.


    Surprising; a VT52 doesn't have many escape sequences. If you roll one
    over, there's a sticker on the bottom listing all of them. Sure, it's a
    big sticker (because the VT52 is big), but there still aren't a lot of
    sequences.

    The H19 has MANY more escape sequences than a VT52. If your idea of what
    a VT52 can do is driven by what an H19 did, you've been misled.

    Unfortunately, all of my VT52s and H19s have long ago died, so all I can
    do at this point is wipe a tear from my eyes. Both are great terminals
    and I miss them.
    --
    roger ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net

  8. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:35:20 GMT, Lee Hart
    wrote:

    >John Elliott wrote:
    >> MYZ80 has multiple terminal emulations, selectable with TERMINAL.COM;
    >> TERMINAL VT52 may do what you require.

    >
    >But (if I recall correctly), MYZ80's VT52 terminal emulation was
    >woefully incomplete -- half the ESC sequences of a real VT52 (or Heath
    >H19) were missing.


    VT52 is a very primitive terminal (state machine based) and there are
    very few escape sequences. I have a VK170 board I still use and thats
    VT52.

    Vt100 on the other hand is a very complex terminal and uses both
    The full ANSI escape set plus DEC private escapes.

    H19 was a subset of both and nearly complete for the base ANSI set.

    However for display use the 90/10 rule for VT52 says if you implement
    GOTOXY, ERAEOL and ERAEOS and screen reset you have all the
    required screen escapes. The keyboard you must generate the color
    keys. Of course there are more but amazingly few are used by
    CP/M software.


    Allison

  9. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:59:37 GMT, Roger Ivie
    wrote:

    >The H19 has MANY more escape sequences than a VT52. If your idea of what
    >a VT52 can do is driven by what an H19 did, you've been misled.


    H19 does both VT52 and ANSI (subset of VT100). It is also a poor VT52
    replication. Still it's usable and most software for CP/M considered
    it distinct from VT52 or VT100 if they were terminal specific.

    >Unfortunately, all of my VT52s and H19s have long ago died, so all I can
    >do at this point is wipe a tear from my eyes. Both are great terminals
    >and I miss them.


    I have aVT52 info and VK170 as reference. My H19s (both) still work
    but one has the ATG Roms for enhanced VT100 emulation. I also keep
    a Vt100, VT320, VT340 and VT1200 for those times when the real thing
    is the tie breaker.

    Allison


  10. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    In article ,
    Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net writes:
    > On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:59:37 GMT, Roger Ivie
    > wrote:
    >
    >>The H19 has MANY more escape sequences than a VT52. If your idea of what
    >>a VT52 can do is driven by what an H19 did, you've been misled.

    >
    > H19 does both VT52 and ANSI (subset of VT100).


    Minor point: ANSI is a superset of VT100, not a subset.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  11. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On 9 Mar 2006 15:42:50 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:

    >In article ,
    > Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net writes:
    >> On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:59:37 GMT, Roger Ivie
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>The H19 has MANY more escape sequences than a VT52. If your idea of what
    >>>a VT52 can do is driven by what an H19 did, you've been misled.

    >>
    >> H19 does both VT52 and ANSI (subset of VT100).

    >
    >Minor point: ANSI is a superset of VT100, not a subset.


    Other way around. ANSI does not include DEC private escapes so adding
    them in does tend to expand the list.


    Allison

  12. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    Allison wrote:
    > VT52 is a very primitive terminal (state machine based) and there are
    > very few escape sequences.


    That could be it. I never had a real DEC VT-52, and so don't know what
    ESC sequences it had. I'm judging from the Heath H19, which has dozens
    of them and says it is "VT-52 compatible".

    I just know that large amounts of the software I use on my H89 don't
    work on IBM PC Z80 "VT-52 emulators".

    > However for display use the 90/10 rule for VT52 says if you implement
    > GOTOXY, ERAEOL and ERAEOS and screen reset you have all the required
    > screen escapes.


    This may be the minimal set, but it makes programs run pretty badly. For
    example, Wordstar will use Delete Line, Insert Line, Reverse Video, etc.

    > Of course there are more but amazingly few are used by CP/M software.


    Yes, this is true for generic CP/M programs. PIP, ED, ASM, DDT etc.
    don't use *any* ESC sequences. However, most of the "fun stuff" does use
    them, and so must be configured properly.
    --
    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget the perfect offering
    There is a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
    --
    Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

  13. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On 2006-03-12, Lee Hart wrote:
    > This may be the minimal set, but it makes programs run pretty badly. For
    > example, Wordstar will use Delete Line, Insert Line, Reverse Video, etc.


    VT52 has none of those.

    --
    roger ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net

  14. Re: CP/M bootable CD?

    On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:49 GMT, Lee Hart
    wrote:

    >Allison wrote:
    >> VT52 is a very primitive terminal (state machine based) and there are
    >> very few escape sequences.

    >
    >That could be it. I never had a real DEC VT-52, and so don't know what
    >ESC sequences it had. I'm judging from the Heath H19, which has dozens
    >of them and says it is "VT-52 compatible".


    Yep the H19 was a superset of VT52 which predates ANSI. Most of the
    ESC sequances were unused by most software even by DEC.

    The Vt100 had a car load and many were used.

    The H19 is actually a compromize as it cannot do some of the VT100
    display modes correctly.

    >I just know that large amounts of the software I use on my H89 don't
    >work on IBM PC Z80 "VT-52 emulators".


    Many PC VT52 and VT100 emulators are mostly broken anyway. There are
    a few that are close.

    >> However for display use the 90/10 rule for VT52 says if you implement
    >> GOTOXY, ERAEOL and ERAEOS and screen reset you have all the required
    >> screen escapes.

    >
    >This may be the minimal set, but it makes programs run pretty badly. For
    >example, Wordstar will use Delete Line, Insert Line, Reverse Video, etc.


    Depends, some flavors of VT52 Wordstar do and some dont. However,
    there are a few that are handy and a few more that really dont get
    much use.

    >> Of course there are more but amazingly few are used by CP/M software.

    >
    >Yes, this is true for generic CP/M programs. PIP, ED, ASM, DDT etc.
    >don't use *any* ESC sequences. However, most of the "fun stuff" does use
    >them, and so must be configured properly.


    Oh, I know. So many programs of the time were ADM1 or ADM3 tweeked
    and I had neither. But I had real DEC terminals oc course those were
    confused but the ESCs used.

    Programs that allowed you to set up like wordstar or my favorite
    editor Vedit really sang with VT100 and behaved well with VT100
    follow ons (vt220, 320 and others.) without resetting the escapes.


    Allison

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