Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus - CP/M

This is a discussion on Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus - CP/M ; Yes; I know that the "B" in ECB stands for "Bus" already :-) I found today an old (1982 :-) article in a small german computer-club-newsletter about the differences in those incarnations of the ECB as they existed at that ...

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  1. Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus


    Yes; I know that the "B" in ECB stands for "Bus" already :-)

    I found today an old (1982 :-) article in a small german
    computer-club-newsletter about the differences in those
    incarnations of the ECB as they existed at that time.

    The mentiones manufactures were:

    Kontron Munic (still in existance); 'inventor' of the Bus
    Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    Janich & Klass
    eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster

    I have to see how to resurrect the 2.5 pages which have become
    some sort of yellow already...

    Yours, Holger


  2. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Holger Petersen schrieb:

    > I found today an old (1982 :-) article in a small german
    > computer-club-newsletter about the differences in those
    > incarnations of the ECB as they existed at that time.
    >
    > The mentiones manufactures were:
    >
    > Kontron Munic (still in existance); 'inventor' of the Bus
    > Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    > Janich & Klass
    > eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster


    There were just a few more flaviours...

    I think I also have some information about the differences of several
    manufacturers versions. If it's of interest to collect as much as
    possible, I might look for it.

    Tilmann

  3. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Holger Petersen schrieb:
    ....
    > The mentiones manufactures were:
    >
    > Kontron Munic (still in existance); 'inventor' of the Bus
    > Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    > Janich & Klass
    > eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster
    >
    > I have to see how to resurrect the 2.5 pages which have become
    > some sort of yellow already...
    >
    > Yours, Holger


    I still have the documentation for all Janich & Klass boards I used in
    the 80s. So if that is needed let me know and I will dig it out.

    Udo Munk
    --
    The real fun is building it and then using it...

  4. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Hello Udo,

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:59:33 +0200, Udo Munk wrote:

    >I still have the documentation for all Janich & Klass boards I used in
    >the 80s. So if that is needed let me know and I will dig it out.


    yes you will dig it out.
    Have you Documentation of the Backplane.

    Rolf


  5. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Hello Tilmann,

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:56:27 +0200, Tilmann Reh wrote:

    >I think I also have some information about the differences of several
    >manufacturers versions. If it's of interest to collect as much as
    >possible, I might look for it.


    yes i have Interest
    Yes look for it.
    Have you Documentation of the Backplane.

    Rolf



  6. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Holger Petersen skrev:
    > Yes; I know that the "B" in ECB stands for "Bus" already :-)
    >
    > I found today an old (1982 :-) article in a small german
    > computer-club-newsletter about the differences in those
    > incarnations of the ECB as they existed at that time.
    >
    > The mentiones manufactures were:
    >
    > Kontron Munic (still in existance); 'inventor' of the Bus
    > Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    > Janich & Klass
    > eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster
    >
    > I have to see how to resurrect the 2.5 pages which have become
    > some sort of yellow already...
    >
    > Yours, Holger
    >


    Yes, thank You!
    if some of You find information on:

    Kontron Z80 ECB/C8 Rev:5.4, (only 2 IC on board),
    Kontron DCT 086 Rev:7, (all IC in socked:=out),
    Kontron DPR 087 Rev:V, (board seems complete).

    so what You can see from this is:
    i do need a lot of info to get those card going again!

    But thank You for just digging!...




  7. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Ole Christensen wrote:
    > Holger Petersen skrev:
    >> Yes; I know that the "B" in ECB stands for "Bus" already :-)
    >>
    >> I found today an old (1982 :-) article in a small german
    >> computer-club-newsletter about the differences in those
    >> incarnations of the ECB as they existed at that time.
    >>
    >> The mentiones manufactures were:
    >>
    >> Kontron Munic (still in existance); 'inventor' of the Bus
    >> Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    >> Janich & Klass
    >> eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster
    >>
    >> I have to see how to resurrect the 2.5 pages which have become
    >> some sort of yellow already...
    >>
    >> Yours, Holger
    >>

    >
    > Yes, thank You!
    > if some of You find information on:
    >
    > Kontron Z80 ECB/C8 Rev:5.4, (only 2 IC on board),
    > Kontron DCT 086 Rev:7, (all IC in socked:=out),
    > Kontron DPR 087 Rev:V, (board seems complete).
    >
    > so what You can see from this is:
    > i do need a lot of info to get those card going again!
    >
    > But thank You for just digging!...
    >
    >
    >



    Look here maybe..

    http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/publi...tron/info.html

  8. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Holger Petersen writes:

    >I have to see how to resurrect the 2.5 pages which have become
    >some sort of yellow already...


    I'd scan them, BUT they are barely readable:

    http://kbbs.dyndns.org:8080/~hp

    One day I'll retype the listing.

    Yours, Holger


  9. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    In Holger Petersen writes:


    > Yes; I know that the "B" in ECB stands for "Bus" already :-)


    > [...]


    AFAIK it stands for "Einfach-Computer Baugruppen" (Simple Computer
    Modules).

    Eddi
    --
    e-mail: dk3uz AT darc DOT de | AMPRNET: dk3uz@db0hht.ampr.org
    If replying to a Usenet article, please use above e-mail address.
    Linux/m68k, the best U**x ever to hit an Atari!

  10. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    In Holger Petersen writes:


    > [...]
    > The mentioned manufacturers were:


    > Kontron Munic (still in existence); 'inventor' of the Bus
    > Hofman electronic lab Bad Rappenau
    > Janich & Klass
    > eltez-80 "Elektroniklande" Münster

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I make that ELZET-80 "Elektronikladen".

    Further I seem to remember Frank & Britting, Dobert & Bitsch,
    and what was the name (single IIRC), of the supposed "Mercedes" of ECB
    based computers? They separated everything, like memory on an extra
    ECB board, terminal i/o card, etc. And who made the extremely fast
    "Video-5" board?

    Eddi
    --
    e-mail: dk3uz AT darc DOT de | AMPRNET: dk3uz@db0hht.ampr.org
    If replying to a Usenet article, please use above e-mail address.
    Linux/m68k, the best U**x ever to hit an Atari!

  11. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    fritz chwolka skrev:
    > Ole Christensen wrote:
    >> Yes, thank You!
    >> if some of You find information on:
    >>
    >> Kontron Z80 ECB/C8 Rev:5.4, (only 2 IC on board),
    >> Kontron DCT 086 Rev:7, (all IC in socked:=out),
    >> Kontron DPR 087 Rev:V, (board seems complete).
    >>
    >> so what You can see from this is:
    >> i do need a lot of info to get those card going again!
    >>
    >> But thank You for just digging!...
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Look here maybe..
    >
    > http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/publi...tron/info.html


    Thanks for take Your time,
    but those CPU-card are bigger than my.
    (there could be good info for my card later in there)

    Thanks and have a nice day!


  12. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Hello Ole,

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:16:12 +0200, Ole Christensen wrote:

    >Thanks for take Your time,
    >but those CPU-card are bigger than my.
    >(there could be good info for my card later in there)


    have you Photos of your CPU-Card's?

    I have many Boards ECB-BUS and no ECB-BUS.

    http://www.hd64180-ecb.de/index.html


    Rolf


  13. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    On Aug 28, 2:33 pm, Rolf Harrmann
    wrote:
    >
    > I have many Boards ECB-BUS and no ECB-BUS.
    >
    > http://www.hd64180-ecb.de/index.html
    >

    I assume one reason you have photos of these boards on your Web page,
    is to get more information about them. It might helpful to you and to
    others, if you include on your web page a list of your boards, and
    include whatever information you can read visually from your boards. I
    looked at some of your photos, and this is some of what I saw:

    ECB board Z80
    Z80B, SIO, CIO, 2797 floppy controller chip, ROM, 128K RAM
    built in 1984

    CCS85 board - Computersystem ??? Weidner 2104????
    Z80?, 8255, ROM

    "DEMAG" board - DEMAC DII 96121347
    8255, many LM339 and 74LS641
    I/O card

    If you have this text on your Web page, then Google and other Web
    search software will find these words. Anyone looking for these boards
    will find *you*, they can help you or you can help them.

    I'm not familiar with the ECB bus, so it's good to see some discussion
    of it.

    Herb Johnson

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ sales web site
    -- old Mac, S-100, 1970's & 80's computers, 8-inch floppy
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/ retro-technology home pages
    -- S-100, CP/M history by "Dr. S-100"
    -- other old tech in iron, glass, rock
    domain mirror: retrotechnology.net
    email: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net



  14. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Hello Herb,

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT), Herb Johnson wrote:

    >If you have this text on your Web page, then Google and other Web
    >search software will find these words. Anyone looking for these boards
    >will find *you*, they can help you or you can help them.


    That is provided much work all Boards with Text too and costs much
    Time. I do not have much Time I must also Work.

    If questions are there ask me

    Computer with Z80 or Z180 on ECB-BUS Board is my Hobby.

    Rolf


  15. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    *Edmund H. Ramm* wrote on Thu, 08-08-28 18:28:
    >AFAIK it stands for "Einfach-Computer Baugruppen" (Simple Computer
    >Modules).


    Yes, you're absolutely right. The German Wikipedia was wrong too, until
    just now, the English one does not have an article yet.

    This is the first paragraph of
    Johannes Assenbaum, Verbindend, Der ECB-Bus, c't 1985/12, 60--61:

    Als 1977 bei Kontron die ersten
    ECB, in vollem Wortlaut Einfach-
    Europaformat-Computer-
    Baugruppen, geschaffen wur
    den, ist bestimmt niemandem in
    den Sinn gekommen, daß der
    ECB-Bus ein paar Jahre später
    De-Facto-Standard für modulare
    Z80-Systeme sein würde.

  16. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Holger Petersen schrieb:

    > I'd scan them, BUT they are barely readable:
    > http://kbbs.dyndns.org:8080/~hp


    They are not readable at all... (dead link) :-(

    > One day I'll retype the listing.


    I already retyped mine, and could include your information.

    Tilmann

  17. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Rolf Harrmann skrev:
    > Hello Ole,
    >
    > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:16:12 +0200, Ole Christensen wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks for take Your time,
    >> but those CPU-card are bigger than my.
    >> (there could be good info for my card later in there)

    >
    > have you Photos of your CPU-Card's?
    >
    > I have many Boards ECB-BUS and no ECB-BUS.
    >
    > http://www.hd64180-ecb.de/index.html
    >
    >
    > Rolf
    >

    Sure, You do have a lot of cards!
    impressive stuff...

    i do have, or could make photos, but have,
    at the moment no public place to put the stuff,
    and i don't think it could help anybody?

    But thanks anyway!



  18. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Rolf Harrmann schrieb:

    >>I think I also have some information about the differences of several
    >>manufacturers versions. If it's of interest to collect as much as
    >>possible, I might look for it.

    >
    > yes i have Interest
    > Yes look for it.


    I have retyped the available information, here it is:

    If anyone has corrections or additions, please let me know.

    > Have you Documentation of the Backplane.


    The backplane is simply a completely parallel bus, except for the two
    daisy chains. Normally, the power supply tracks are much wider than the
    signal tracks, and also connect 1a+c resp. 32a+c.

    Tilmann

  19. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Hello Tilmann,

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:25:32 +0200, Tilmann Reh wrote:

    >I have retyped the available information, here it is:
    >
    >If anyone has corrections or additions, please let me know.
    >
    >> Have you Documentation of the Backplane.

    >
    >The backplane is simply a completely parallel bus, except for the two
    >daisy chains. Normally, the power supply tracks are much wider than the
    >signal tracks, and also connect 1a+c resp. 32a+c.


    I have Backplane with two daisy chains and Backplane without two daisy
    chains.

    Have you more Info for the two daisy chains?

    Thanks and have a nice day!

    Rolf


  20. Re: Article on different Versions of the (german) ECB-Bus

    Rolf Harrmann writes:


    >I have Backplane with two daisy chains and Backplane without two daisy
    >chains.


    >Have you more Info for the two daisy chains?


    All Z80-peripheral devices have two special pins:

    - Interrupt daisy chain IN ("IEI")
    - Interrupt daisy chain OUT ("IEO")

    The second one is for BUS-Request / Bus-Aknowledge used by DMA

    The designer of the ECB-Bus must have been drunk by too much
    'Oktoberfest beer', because of the layout of those 2 pairs:

    It would have been too simple to put one INput on the same
    nmbered Pin Line (a) and the Output on (c) (or vice-verse).

    Instead they are on not-adjacent lines:

    11a - BUSRQ/ 11C - IEI
    31a - BUSAK/ 16C - IEO

    Or does someone know the reasoning?

    Greetings, Holger



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