CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com.... - CP/M

This is a discussion on CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com.... - CP/M ; What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here (the link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"): http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm ? Regards Peter -- * More infos about vintage computers and CP/M - http://www.z80.eu...

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Thread: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

  1. CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here (the
    link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"):
    http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm
    ?

    Regards
    Peter
    --
    * More infos about vintage computers and CP/M - http://www.z80.eu

  2. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    "Peter Dassow" wrote:

    > What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here
    > (the link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"):
    >

    http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm
    > ?


    I have no idea, since it seems to be the only version found, so far.

    However, I note that the COMmand file is missing...

    Don't have you a collection of C compilers for CP/M, Peter?

    Would you mind seeing if this compiles?

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France




  3. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    > What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here (the
    > link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"):
    > http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm
    > ?


    AX25/param.pad contains the string "AX.25 TNC V1.0 By KA9Q".

    De

  4. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France ha scritto:
    > "Peter Dassow" wrote:
    >
    >> What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here
    >> (the link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"):
    >>

    > http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm
    >> ?

    >
    > I have no idea, since it seems to be the only version found, so far.
    >
    > However, I note that the COMmand file is missing...
    >
    > Don't have you a collection of C compilers for CP/M, Peter?
    >
    > Would you mind seeing if this compiles?


    In past, during the msdos days, many archives, also on CD, has the .com
    files renamed .cpm or .obj to avoid running them unintentionally in a
    msdos environment, with the obvious consequences.

    Sorry if I'm muddled in my reply, but I have few sleeps lately....

    Best regards from Italy,
    Dott. Piergiorgio.

  5. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    "Peter Dassow" wrote:

    > What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here?


    I don't know. Too bad that the man who wrote the README.TXT file in November
    1994 did not explain more, since he must have known.

    Apparently, the "AX25" directory was made in November 1991.

    As Dennis Boone remarked:

    > AX25/param.pad contains the string "AX.25 TNC V1.0 By KA9Q".


    But the README.DOC file says:

    > Here is the second "friendly user" release of my TNC code for the Xerox
    > 820. The code is mostly in C and was developed with the Aztec C compiler.
    > There are two ready-to-run COM files on this disk


    As noted previously, the two COMmand files are missing.

    If I have well understood,

    > The code currently implements AX.25 Level 2 as defined in the Version 2.0
    > document published by the ARRL. Depending on the choice of low level

    driver
    > routines, it will use either the Zilog SIO (native to the 820, but

    requiring
    > an external receive clock recovery "state machine" circuit) or the
    > Zilog 8530 (requiring the FADCA daughter board, or "FAD board") for HDLC
    > communications. In both cases, an external modem between the SIO or 8530
    > and the radio is needed.


    and

    > A compatibility problem with the Big Board (an 820 look-alike) was
    > also resolved. This code should run as-is on the Big Board.


    So, this program used to run on the Xerox 820 and the Big Board.

    Questions:

    1) Is there a radio-amateur in the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup? Could he ask the
    radio-amateur organizations if KA9Q is still used (its name changed over the
    year) and, especially, if someone is still using the CP/M version?

    2) Is there someone who has a running Xerox 820 or Big Board with a modem
    and a radio? Would he like to try this piece of packet radio history?

    3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?

    The TCPGUIDE file in the directory where there are no DOC files explains
    "the various modules making up the KA9Q Amateur Radio Internet Protocol
    package". It says that IP, ICMP, TCP, and UDP are present.

    So, if we remove the radio, and connect the computer only to the modem, will
    it then "surf the Net" ?

    This will be all for today.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France




  6. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:35:35 +0200, "Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France"
    wrote:

    >"Peter Dassow" wrote:
    >
    >> What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here?

    >
    >I don't know. Too bad that the man who wrote the README.TXT file in November
    >1994 did not explain more, since he must have known.
    >
    >Apparently, the "AX25" directory was made in November 1991.
    >
    >As Dennis Boone remarked:
    >
    >> AX25/param.pad contains the string "AX.25 TNC V1.0 By KA9Q".

    >
    >But the README.DOC file says:
    >
    >> Here is the second "friendly user" release of my TNC code for the Xerox
    >> 820. The code is mostly in C and was developed with the Aztec C compiler.
    >> There are two ready-to-run COM files on this disk

    >
    >As noted previously, the two COMmand files are missing.
    >
    >If I have well understood,
    >
    >> The code currently implements AX.25 Level 2 as defined in the Version 2.0
    >> document published by the ARRL. Depending on the choice of low level

    >driver
    >> routines, it will use either the Zilog SIO (native to the 820, but

    >requiring
    >> an external receive clock recovery "state machine" circuit) or the
    >> Zilog 8530 (requiring the FADCA daughter board, or "FAD board") for HDLC
    >> communications. In both cases, an external modem between the SIO or 8530
    >> and the radio is needed.

    >
    >and
    >
    >> A compatibility problem with the Big Board (an 820 look-alike) was
    >> also resolved. This code should run as-is on the Big Board.

    >
    >So, this program used to run on the Xerox 820 and the Big Board.
    >
    >Questions:
    >
    >1) Is there a radio-amateur in the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup? Could he ask the
    >radio-amateur organizations if KA9Q is still used (its name changed over the
    >year) and, especially, if someone is still using the CP/M version?


    There are more than a few of us.

    Packet radio was popular starting in the late 70s and dieing out in
    the late 90s. TI was replaced with protocales and hardware that
    could make use of the ubiquious PC and the sound card that can
    be used with proper programming to do thing that are modem like.
    Look up, RTTY, PACKET, CLOVER, PSK31, WJST as individual topics
    as thats a cross section of digital modes in use today.

    >2) Is there someone who has a running Xerox 820 or Big Board with a modem
    >and a radio? Would he like to try this piece of packet radio history?


    There could be but likely they are very alone as most packet nets have
    gone away or replaced with more current techniques. There is one
    small nice area that is growing called APRS. It uses a minimal packet
    to transmit position data (from GPS) and a short message for tracking.
    Since the packet is fixed in general format and length the whole thing
    can be fit in to a small PIC microprocessor. Also APRS is a transmit
    format for the endpoint and there can be digipeters (recieve and
    rebroadcast digial packets) with collection endpoints that only
    recieve.

    >3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?


    TNC is a modem like device, TCP/IP is a protocal.

    >The TCPGUIDE file in the directory where there are no DOC files explains
    >"the various modules making up the KA9Q Amateur Radio Internet Protocol
    >package". It says that IP, ICMP, TCP, and UDP are present.


    Understand how UDP, IP TCP and ICMP are used to build messages and
    other transport functions and you will have an answer.

    Also read the headers, the C code is highly commented.

    >So, if we remove the radio, and connect the computer only to the modem, will
    >it then "surf the Net" ?


    Not quite. Packet radio was a point to point protocal in radio use
    mostly for email or email like applications so some things are not
    used or woud need to be added like a browser. It contains all the
    underlying code for the levels between the application and the
    physical media.


    Allison
    >
    >This will be all for today.
    >
    >Yours Sincerely,
    >Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France
    >
    >



  7. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    "Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France" writes:

    >So, this program used to run on the Xerox 820 and the Big Board.


    >Questions:


    >1) Is there a radio-amateur in the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup?


    Yes; but not aktive anymore since I changed my home...

    [Thanks for your EMail; I just returned from a journey to Switzerland,
    and are in my bed because I 'cracked' my foot when wandering in the
    wood at the 'aust du doubs']


    > Could he ask the
    >radio-amateur organizations if KA9Q is still used (its name changed over the
    >year) and, especially, if someone is still using the CP/M version?


    Probably no one uses the bigboard-Version; almost all hams switched
    to the TAPR-board.
    I used to have one BB-one; but gave it to another cp/m enthusiast here
    in the neigbourhood when I changed my home.

    >3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?


    One ist Hardware, the other is Software...

    =-=

    concerning ka9q: There used to be a SIGM-Disk with a precursor?


    yours, Holger (dg3lp)


  8. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    > 1) Is there a radio-amateur in the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup? Could he ask the
    > radio-amateur organizations if KA9Q is still used (its name changed over the
    > year) and, especially, if someone is still using the CP/M version?


    Yes, me, if not others.

    KA9Q's MS-DOS NOS package is still used by a few people, though most
    ops using a userland NOS (as opposed to e.g. the kernel support in
    Linux) are using derived packages like JNOS. There are lots of derived
    packages, btw.

    If anyone is still using the CP/M KA9Q package, they're hiding very
    effectively.

    > 3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?


    A TNC is a Terminal Node Controller, an intelligent modem which provides
    AX.25 protocol support (and possibly other protocols) as well as
    converting serial data to audio streams which can be injected into a
    transceiver. I've never met one which knew anything about TCP/IP.

    De

  9. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    "Dennis Boone" wrote:

    > If anyone is still using the CP/M KA9Q package, they're hiding very
    > effectively.


    Ok. So, it seems that the KA9Q "branch" is dead.

    > > 3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?

    >
    > A TNC is a Terminal Node Controller, an intelligent modem which provides
    > AX.25 protocol support (and possibly other protocols) as well as
    > converting serial data to audio streams which can be injected into a
    > transceiver. I've never met one which knew anything about TCP/IP.


    Ok. Since I know nothing about radio, I guess that the "TNC" branch is
    dead...

    So, there remains the modem branch. I was given an old 56-Kbs modem. So, it
    would be interesting to be able to such a modem from an 8-bits CP/M
    computer.

    So, now the problem is to see what part of CP/M KA9Q should be kept.

    This will be all for today.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France




  10. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) writes:

    > > 3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?


    >A TNC is a Terminal Node Controller, an intelligent modem which provides
    >AX.25 protocol support (and possibly other protocols) as well as
    >converting serial data to audio streams which can be injected into a
    >transceiver. I've never met one which knew anything about TCP/IP.


    BUT you could have used TCP/IP with (some) TNCs. I do have an IP-
    number assignes to me:

    host dg3lp.ampr.org
    dg3lp.ampr.org has address 44.130.4.28

    Greetings, Holger

  11. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:14:18 -0500, drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis
    Boone) wrote:

    > > > If anyone is still using the CP/M KA9Q package, they're hiding very
    > > > effectively.

    >
    > > Ok. So, it seems that the KA9Q "branch" is dead.


    No, morphed into other things as a basis.

    >Some people still use the MS-DOS/x86 flavor, so it's certainly not
    >dead. And all of the packages which are descended from the original
    >Phil Karn version are strongly related.
    >
    > > Ok. Since I know nothing about radio, I guess that the "TNC" branch is
    > > dead...

    >
    >One of the reasons people find you so hard to deal with is this kind
    >of statement. A great deal goes on in the world with which you are
    >not and cannot be familiar, and in which you are not interested.
    >That doesn't make it "dead", non-existent, or deserving of summary
    >dismissal.


    Agreed. There are still people using TNCs as they can or are capable
    of supporting modes still in use. It's just a modem designed to
    connect to a radio.

    >TNCs are very much not dead, for better or worse. What you mean is
    >that the TNC support code isn't going to help you achieve the goal
    >of TCP/IP on CP/M machines. It might, however, be interesting to
    >those denizens of this group who are interested in vintage computers,
    >CP/M and amateur radio.


    As one that does both. NO. Mostly as it applies to part of the hobby
    I don't play much in save for an occasional PSK31 contact.
    Ham radio is a diverse hobby and thats only a corner.

    >
    > > So, there remains the modem branch. I was given an old 56-Kbs modem. So, it
    > > would be interesting to be able to such a modem from an 8-bits CP/M
    > > computer.

    >
    >For the modem to be useful you would need dialup internet service,
    >and PPP support in KA9Q. The latter might exist. Given what I've
    >read from you, I'm not sure if the former is readily available or not.


    A CP/M machine with a modem is nothing special. I have a 56k USR
    I sometimes use. However the average CP/M (4MHZ z80) is not going
    support more than 19200 and many/most are slower. In some cases
    the baud generation circuits will not go above 9600. BAck then that
    was fast. The modem used properly will still work though you will
    have to command it to a slowr rate.

    >
    >Depending on what functionality is available in the "modem branch",
    >it might be feasible to use it to connect over a serial line to a
    >local x86 machine running e.g. Linux as a gateway to the world.
    >
    >When I was first using the MS-DOS version of KA9Q to connect to
    >the local educational network, the PPP spec was not completed.
    >That means this old CP/M KA9Q, which is older, probably doesn't
    >have PPP. It's possible that code could be ported from newer NOS
    >versions, depending on available RAM.


    There is no direct PPP support but likely most of the components would
    be useful to build a PPP stack.

    > > So, now the problem is to see what part of CP/M KA9Q should be kept.

    >
    >I would say everything. What should be added is drivers for some
    >form of hardware that is useful. In my world, dialup support wouldn't
    >be very useful; everyone here has shut down their dialup service, or
    >is imminently threatening to do so. For the folks in my situation,
    >some way to connect an ethernet port to the CP/M machine, and driver
    >support for it in KA9Q, would be more useful.


    It's all keep. TCP/IP is a layerd protocal and most of whats there is
    layers defined back when and more are added over time to extend
    it.

    There is one service that still maintains the dialup here
    World.STD.COM. Just used it the other day to test PPP
    on Blackfin uClinux.


    Allison

    >
    >De



  12. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:51:31 +0000 (UTC), Holger Petersen
    wrote:

    >drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) writes:
    >
    >> > 3) What is the difference between a "TNC" and "TCP/IP" ?

    >
    >>A TNC is a Terminal Node Controller, an intelligent modem which provides
    >>AX.25 protocol support (and possibly other protocols) as well as
    >>converting serial data to audio streams which can be injected into a
    >>transceiver. I've never met one which knew anything about TCP/IP.

    >
    >BUT you could have used TCP/IP with (some) TNCs. I do have an IP-
    >number assignes to me:


    It was done that way. Usually it was bulletin board or email driving
    TCP/IP feeding an X25 low level protocal driving a modem that is
    hooked to a radio.

    I know a few that had digipeters or actively use packet. The last
    bastion of packet is via hamsats and ARISS. Hamsats are LEOS
    which can repeat voice or some do digipeters. Most are easy to
    listen to (it's allowed) a good scanner works for the FM birds.
    ISS also has digipeter, when operational I think it's down right now.
    So it's still possible to use that address, hardware and all but most
    use PC or a PDA with sound IO to the radio.

    Allison

    > host dg3lp.ampr.org
    > dg3lp.ampr.org has address 44.130.4.28
    >
    >Greetings, Holger



  13. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:27:20 +0200, Peter Dassow
    wrote:

    >What version is this self-extracting archive named cpm-tcp.exe here (the
    >link is "KA9Q - KA9Q for CP/M"):
    >http://web.archive.org/web/200712231...m/download.htm


    some interesting details can be found here:

    http://groups.google.com/group/net.h...e1ebe401507c06

    .....among others

    Bill

  14. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    Dennis Boone schrieb:
    ....
    > For the modem to be useful you would need dialup internet service,
    > and PPP support in KA9Q. The latter might exist. Given what I've
    > read from you, I'm not sure if the former is readily available or not.


    With the early x86 UNIX systems (MINIX, Linux, Coherent) we used KA9Q
    and later ?5JB on this systems, to connect via SLIP modem dialin to an
    ISP. That worked ok for ftp to the UNIX Internet archive servers, all
    that we wanted at this time. I never used it on CP/M and I haven't used
    DOS a lot at all, but it can't be much work to get it working, was
    written in K&R C. Problem of course is that no ISP in Europe, USA and
    who knows where, would provide a SLIP modem dialin nowadys. So for this
    software one would need a local SLIP gateway, build from some sort of
    UNIX system.

    > Depending on what functionality is available in the "modem branch",
    > it might be feasible to use it to connect over a serial line to a
    > local x86 machine running e.g. Linux as a gateway to the world.


    Yep, could be done.

    > > So, now the problem is to see what part of CP/M KA9Q should be kept.

    >
    > I would say everything. What should be added is drivers for some
    > form of hardware that is useful. In my world, dialup support wouldn't
    > be very useful; everyone here has shut down their dialup service, or
    > is imminently threatening to do so. For the folks in my situation,
    > some way to connect an ethernet port to the CP/M machine, and driver
    > support for it in KA9Q, would be more useful.
    >
    > De


    I would say forget about KA9Q and derivatives, because TCP/IP, drivers
    and applications are all in one huge user land application. Later
    implementations separated everything, so that any application using
    Berkely sockets could be used. Probably the stuff we messed way back
    then on MINIX and Coherent still is available. One day I might look
    through my Coherent archives tho...

    Udo Munk
    --
    The real fun is building it and then using it...

  15. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    Udo Munk wrote:
    (snip)

    > With the early x86 UNIX systems (MINIX, Linux, Coherent) we used KA9Q
    > and later ?5JB on this systems, to connect via SLIP modem dialin to an
    > ISP. That worked ok for ftp to the UNIX Internet archive servers, all
    > that we wanted at this time. I never used it on CP/M and I haven't used
    > DOS a lot at all, but it can't be much work to get it working, was
    > written in K&R C. Problem of course is that no ISP in Europe, USA and
    > who knows where, would provide a SLIP modem dialin nowadys. So for this
    > software one would need a local SLIP gateway, build from some sort of
    > UNIX system.


    I used to use PCroute as a SLIP gateway. It would run on an 8088
    machine, though it had to be 10MHz to keep up at 9600 baud.

    I thought that there was also a SLIP option for windows,
    but I never tried it.

    OR, as you say, a version of unix. Older unix systems should
    run fine on a smaller 486 system that one might have around.

    -- glen


  16. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....

    --{ glen herrmannsfeldt a plopé ceci: }--

    > I thought that there was also a SLIP option for windows,
    > but I never tried it.


    For old Windows (3.11, 95) you can seek for Trumpet Winsock,
    who can act (if I'm remember correctly) as a slip server.



    --
    alias ps='ps axo "user,pid,ppid,%cpu,%mem,tty,start,state,command"'

  17. Re: CPM-TCP found at archive.org's mirror from s100-manuals.com....


    Group: comp.os.cpm Date: Wed, Aug 6, 2008, 11:07pm (CDT+5) From:
    no.spam@no.uce.bellatlantic.net

    script:

    >There is one service that still maintains
    >the dialup here World.STD.COM.


    I still use NatISP.com as backup dial-up and for webtv. $6 US/Mo. with
    a 1-year subscription.

    salaam,
    dowcom

    To e-mail me, add the character zero to "dowcom". i.e.:
    dowcom(zero)(at)webtv(dot)net.

    --
    http://community.webtv.net/dowcom/DOWCOMSAMSTRADGUIDE

    MSWindows is television,… Linux is radar.


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