Hello, Marc!

(I answer in English,because the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup is a world-wide
Newsgroup, where English is the standard language.)

> I am looking after .dsk version of the CP/M 2.2 who was delivered as
System
> disk for the Amstrad or Shneider CPC664.

Yes, I remember the Amstrad CPC-664 (even though I never had one). Amstrad
sold a lot of them, and launched the CPC-6128 six months later... There was
lots of comments on this, at the time, in the microcomputer magazines.

> I need it in .dsk version cause I intend to use it via a CPC emulator.
> It will allow me to try again, like 20 years ago, some assembler code.

Have you made a Google search over the Internet for such an emulator? I am
quite sure that there is one for the CPC-6128 (and the PCW-8256), but I am
not sure for the CPC-664.

As for "assembler code", there are tons of 8080 and Z-80 assembly languages
available. Have a look to the following links:

http://www.gaby.de/ecpmlink.htm

> Face B with Dr Logo (an graphical tool app running under CP/M)

Hahaha! Those Newbies are incredible! If, one day, you want to investigate
more "Dr. Logo" ("Doctor Logo"), you will discover that it was the first
16-bit Logo made for the IBM PC. Digital Research ported it under CP/M 2.2
because, at the time, Logo was needed to sold microcomputers to education.
If you want to use it on an IBM PC, search for "Dr. Logo Reference Manual".
By the way, there is a 50 pages article in French explaining how to program
it for the CPC-664 and the CPC-6128. Search for "Initiation au Dr. Logo
(texte amélioré)".

> I hope I am talking to the right news group.

Yes, in general, for CP/M. But, in this particular case, you need a version
for the Amstrad, and the Amstrad 8-bits computers have their own Newsgroup
(according to Google, there are 116 regular members) (188 for comp.os.cpm):

comp.sys.amstrad.8bit

Re-publish a message there. I am sure that you will find the CPC-664 boot
disk.

Good luck with your assembler code! If you do something interesting, let us
know. (This week, we talked about a TCP/IP stack for CP/M, totally
programmed in Z-80 assembly language. Size: 24KB...)

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Hello.

Marc De Pooter wrote in message <489433c1$0$2863$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...
>Hello,
>
>I am looking after .dsk version of the CP/M 2.2 who was delivered as System
>disk for the Amstrad or Shneider CPC664.
>I need it in .dsk version cause I intend to use it via a CPC emulator.
>It will allow me to try again, like 20 years ago, some assembler code.
>
>Here is a scan of both faces of the so called system disk
>Face A with CP/M 2.2
>Face B with Dr Logo (an graphical tool app running under CP/M)

You'll find some system discs here:

http://www.cpcwiki.com/index.php/System_Disk

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello.

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
<48949886$0$872$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...

>By the way, there is a 50 pages article in French explaining how to program
>it for the CPC-664 and the CPC-6128. Search for "Initiation au Dr. Logo
>(texte amélioré)".

Thank you, Mr. Emmanuel Roche, I found it and downloaded this message, as I am
very interested in all kinds of Logo software and the docs.

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello.

You asked Marc:

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
<48949886$0$872$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...

>Have you made a Google search over the Internet for such an emulator? I am
>quite sure that there is one for the CPC-6128 (and the PCW-8256), but I am
>not sure for the CPC-664.

Yes, it exists. Cpcemu14.zip or cpcemu15.zip by Marco Vieth has all these.

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello, Katzy!

> Thank you, Mr. Emmanuel Roche, I found it and downloaded this message, as
I am
> very interested in all kinds of Logo software and the docs.

??? I was thinking that you were German, Katzy?

Well... If you are "very interested in all kinds of Logo software", there
are quite a lot available on the Internet, and Logo was a popular subject
for publishing houses, so you will find a lot of them on Amazon.

The problem is that, despite their being written in a high-level language,
lots of Logo programs (especially those for the smallest computer
configurations) tend to use "primitives" specific to their systems (like
"sprites").

Personally, since I am a fan of CP/M, I chose to deal with Dr. Logo only.
And this is already a big subject, since it was available on CP/M 2.2,
CP/M-86, and Atari 520ST (under the name "ST Logo", hence able to deal with
MegaBytes workspaces...). (By the way, I think there is a German book about
this version. Let's see... I have the English translation of a book, "Atari
ST Logo User's Guide", by one Gerhard Sauer, originally published by Data
Becker GmbH, in 1986.)

(Maybe I am forgetting a few ports... Ho, yes! It was ported to MS-DOS on
the NEC APC-III, which was using a NEC uPD-7220 GDC, hence is incompatible
with "IBM Clowns".)

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Hello Katty,

Thanks for your reply.
I did already do the google search.
I am using Virtual CPC emulator http://www.geocities.com/virtualcpc/, its a
nice one I think.
I tryed already basic command under CP/M plus with the 6128 emualtion, its
doing well !
The same emulator can be configured for a 464 or a 664 with or without
memory extensions ... quite complete ...

Greetings,
Marc

"Katzy" wrote in message
news:4894be1a$0$10457$e4fe514c@dreader25.news.xs4a ll.nl...
> Hello.
>
> You asked Marc:
>
> Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
> <48949886$0$872$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...
>
>>Have you made a Google search over the Internet for such an emulator? I am
>>quite sure that there is one for the CPC-6128 (and the PCW-8256), but I am
>>not sure for the CPC-664.
>
> Yes, it exists. Cpcemu14.zip or cpcemu15.zip by Marco Vieth has all these.
>
> Greetz, Katzy.
>
>

Thanks Katzy,

I found indead the 4 faces of CP/M plus delivered with the CPC6128
('ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/cpc/utils/cpc/cpmplus.zip') .
I am still looking after the older CP/M 2.2 for CPC664 but I can already
have some fun with the plus version.

Greetings,
Marc

"Katzy" wrote in message
news:4894b07f$0$10318$e4fe514c@dreader29.news.xs4a ll.nl...
> Hello.
>
> Marc De Pooter wrote in message
> <489433c1$0$2863$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am looking after .dsk version of the CP/M 2.2 who was delivered as
>>System
>>disk for the Amstrad or Shneider CPC664.
>>I need it in .dsk version cause I intend to use it via a CPC emulator.
>>It will allow me to try again, like 20 years ago, some assembler code.
>>
>>Here is a scan of both faces of the so called system disk
>>Face A with CP/M 2.2
>>Face B with Dr Logo (an graphical tool app running under CP/M)
>
> You'll find some system discs here:
>
> http://www.cpcwiki.com/index.php/System_Disk
>
> Greetz, Katzy.
>
>

Re-Hello, Katzy!

> Thank you, Mr. Emmanuel Roche, I found it and downloaded this message, as
I am
> very interested in all kinds of Logo software and the docs.

I have a rarity which could interest you...

DRLNL1.WS4 (= Dr. Logo NewsLetter #1")
----------

- "Dr. Logo Newsletter"
*** First Edition: April 1984 ***
6000-1031-001

(Retyped by Emmanuel ROCHE.)


Table of Contents
-----------------

Editor's introduction
Response card results
Logy, morph, and Ma Bell
String art with Dr. Logo
Faster turtle graphics in Dr. Logo
A cascade of color
Mine
A simple 3-D graphics package
Presenting -- the doctor
Hex
Logo at work
Toolbox -- A collection of useful tools
Toolbox -- An example of tool usage

(You can search all over the Internet: I am the only one who has this file.)

Write me a message, and I will send this file to you... (I found dozens of
"Katzy". Apparently, it is a Dutch name. I also found lots of mentions of a
B.R. Katzy but, instead of sending this file to him, I prefer that you
contact me. In particular, I would like to know if you are behind the
w.nostalgia.nl Web site?)

Ha, the joy of making 3-D objects in Dr. Logo...

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Marc De Pooter wrote:
>
> I found indead the 4 faces of CP/M plus delivered with the CPC6128
> ('ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/cpc/utils/cpc/cpmplus.zip') .
> I am still looking after the older CP/M 2.2 for CPC664 but I can
> already have some fun with the plus version.

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:




(taming google)
(newusers)

--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]:
Try the download section.

Hi.

Marc De Pooter wrote in message <48955b4a$0$2861$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...

>I am using Virtual CPC emulator http://www.geocities.com/virtualcpc/, its a
>nice one I think.

Yes, I had this one too, but it does not run on an old computer like I have.

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello,

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
<48957056$0$867$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...

>I have a rarity which could interest you...
>
>DRLNL1.WS4 (= Dr. Logo NewsLetter #1")
>----------
>
>- "Dr. Logo Newsletter"
> *** First Edition: April 1984 ***
> 6000-1031-001
>
>(Retyped by Emmanuel ROCHE.)



>Write me a message, and I will send this file to you...

Sure I am interested and happy you want to share it, but may I share it too,
like the other Dr. Logo documents which I put on my website?

(I found dozens of
>"Katzy". Apparently, it is a Dutch name. I also found lots of mentions of a
>B.R. Katzy but, instead of sending this file to him, I prefer that you
>contact me. In particular, I would like to know if you are behind the
>w.nostalgia.nl Web site?)

No, I am not B.R. Katzy. I am indeed sitting behind the nostalgia8.nl site.
Katzy at that site will come through, when the server you use is ok.

>Ha, the joy of making 3-D objects in Dr. Logo...

Do you have some drawings you made then?

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello,

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
<4894db1f$0$848$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...

You thought:

>??? I was thinking that you were German, Katzy?

But now you know better...

>Personally, since I am a fan of CP/M, I chose to deal with Dr. Logo only.
>And this is already a big subject, since it was available on CP/M 2.2,
>CP/M-86, and Atari 520ST (under the name "ST Logo", hence able to deal with
>MegaBytes workspaces...). (By the way, I think there is a German book about
>this version. Let's see... I have the English translation of a book, "Atari
>ST Logo User's Guide", by one Gerhard Sauer, originally published by Data
>Becker GmbH, in 1986.)

I do have some Atari Logo versions.

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello, Katzy!

> Sure I am interested and happy you want to share it, but may I share it
too,
> like the other Dr. Logo documents which I put on my website?

Yes, of course. Maybe you could start a Web page dealing exclusively with
Dr. Logo? (I also retyped the BYTE article where Gary Kildall explains why
he wrote what is considered as a "child language". I simply don't know why
Kirk Lawrence never used it, since it is the most powerful programming
language availble under CP/M-86, and the only one, in addition, able to
produce graphics under CP/M-86...)

> >Ha, the joy of making 3-D objects in Dr. Logo...
>
> Do you have some drawings you made then?

As I explained some years ago, at the beginning, I discovered Dr. Logo on
the Amstrad 8-bit systems. Since it was running under CP/M, I became
interested by this unusual programming language. (It is a long story.) Since
I was a member of the CP/M User Group (UK), one day that I was traveling in
"Merry England", I happened to pass on the Motorway near the place where was
located, then, Digital Research England. I went there, meet a manager who
told me that all the 8-bit stuff had been sold at bargain price to one of
their former employee, who had an industrial shed a few hundred yards from
his former office. So, I went to see and meet him, and he sold me (for 5
Sterling Pounds) the IBM PC 3-ring binder of Dr. Logo for the IBM PC, with
one copy-protected disk.

Back home, in France, Amstrad was "in" at the time, so I managed to borrow
one Amstrad PC1512, inserted the floppy, and faced myself in front of the
"?" prompt of Dr. Logo. This version was copy-protected, and it was
impossible to leave the Dr. Logo interpreter, to exit to the (hidden)
CP/M-86 OS running somewhere. It was really a "closed" system.

At the time, I had already bought a small, but interesting, Logo book. It
was the French translation of a book published in Argentina. The author, an
architect (if I remember well), explained how to program things (many
buildings, of course) thanks to a set of 3-D primitives that he had
programmed in Logo.

Fortunately, this Logo happened to be quite similar to Dr. Logo (at the
beginning, there were 2 families of Logos), and I was able to run those 3-D
programs on the Amstrad PC1512.

Now, the problem was: 1) it was not my computer: I needed to give it back in
a few days, and 2) I had no computer using "soft-sectored" 5 1/4" floppy
disks, then (I had a NorthStar Horizon, which used "hard-sectored" floppies)
and 3) at the time, I had no idea how to read those floppies (my system
could not read other formats). So, the only solution I found was to "Print
Screen" the result on a listing, then print the listing below the drawing.
They are now quite "whitened", but that all that remains from that intensive
3-D programming session under Dr. Logo.

This was 20-something years ago...

(The "Dr. Logo Newsletter" primitives use a totally different way of doing
3-D graphics.)

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France schrieb:

> Yes, of course. Maybe you could start a Web page dealing exclusively with
> Dr. Logo? (I also retyped the BYTE article where Gary Kildall explains why
> he wrote what is considered as a "child language". I simply don't know why
> Kirk Lawrence never used it, since it is the most powerful programming
> language availble under CP/M-86, and the only one, in addition, able to
> produce graphics under CP/M-86...)

He never used it because Pilot was developed as language to teach the
basics of computer programming, and not to become the most powerful
programming language. At that time he was beyond learning the basics of
programming ;-)

Before Pilot for CP/M-86 became available I did graphics programming
under CP/M-86 in assembler, RATFOR/FORTRAN and Aztec-C. Well, at that
time I also was beyond learning the basics of programming and I had no
need for turtle graphics. And yes I played with the turtles on my
Apple-][, but not because it was the most powerful turtle on the planet,
just because I play with everything.

Udo Munk
--
The real fun is building it and then using it...

Hello Mr. Emmanuel Roche,

You suggested:

>Yes, of course. Maybe you could start a Web page dealing exclusively with
>Dr. Logo?

Why don't you?

In the meantime I added your French retyping, which I had to edit because of
wrong line-breaks.

>Back home, in France, Amstrad was "in" at the time, so I managed to borrow
>one Amstrad PC1512, inserted the floppy, and faced myself in front of the
>"?" prompt of Dr. Logo. This version was copy-protected, and it was
>impossible to leave the Dr. Logo interpreter, to exit to the (hidden)
>CP/M-86 OS running somewhere. It was really a "closed" system.

The magic word for exit was probably BYE, like in all Logo versions.

>Fortunately, this Logo happened to be quite similar to Dr. Logo (at the
>beginning, there were 2 families of Logos), and I was able to run those 3-D
>programs on the Amstrad PC1512.

How do you mean, 2 families? PC and / or homecomputer? Had this Logo a name?

>This was 20-something years ago...
>
>(The "Dr. Logo Newsletter" primitives use a totally different way of doing
>3-D graphics.)

Did or didn't you sent it? (In both cases I did not receive it).

Greetz, Katzy.

Hello Mr. Roche,

Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France wrote in message
<489b6356$0$907$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>...

>Most people think of it as a
>"turtle" language but, in fact, you can use it without graphics, just ASCII
>characters. And the 16-bits version of Dr. Logo is very powerful. Re-read
>the BYTE article of Gary Kildall.

I re-read:
Dr. Logo is a superset of Apple Logo and more than just a
language. A complete programming environment, it includes its
own operating system, program editor, debugger, and a set of
workspace-management tools designed to speed the successful
implementation of even the most convoluted artificial-
intelligence program.

ASCII for drawing does not need Logo, it works on DOS and Windows too when you
are using the right font (just read about ascii animation in a newer
thread..).

Typing ascii in Dr. Logo outputs the ASCII value of the first character in the
input word.

>> In the meantime I added your French retyping, which I had to edit because
of
>> wrong line-breaks.

>??? Everything I type is WordStar processed... Do you mean just changing the
>Right Margin? Well, I use 78-columns wide files, since my screen displays 80
>columns (and most printers can print 132 columns. Me, I use 96-col, giving
>me 8 spaces on both sides of the text).

I copied and pasted it from the Amstrad forum, it looked like this:

DRLINIT.WS4 (="Dr. Logo Initiation")
-----------

- "Initiation au Logo"
par Daniel MARTIN
"Amstrad Magazine", Mars-Avril-Mai 1986

(Retapé par Emmanuel ROCHE.)


Première partie: Amstrad Magazine, No.8, Mars 1986, p.26
----------------

Nous allons consacrer trois cours à l'étude du langage Logo. Pourquoi
étudier
le langage Logo? Les raisons sont multiples. Tout d'abord, c'est le
langage le
plus répandu sur Amstrad après le BASIC, puisqu'il est offert en
même temps
que l'AMSDOS et le CP/M à tout acquéreur d'une extension disque, d'un
CPC-664
ou d'un 6128.

>> The magic word for exit was probably BYE, like in all Logo versions.

>No. It was really closed. A debugger in Logo would have been very useful,
>back then.

When it was DR. Logo, it was really BYE (I found a sort of manual):

bye

Exits the current session of Dr. Logo

>> How do you mean, 2 families? PC and / or homecomputer? Had this Logo a
>name?

>No. At the beginning, there were 2 "dialects" of the Logo computer language:
>one from SCSI (with Seymour Papert), and another one from MIT. Their
>"primitives" were different.

Seymour Papert is MIT, he indeed started LCSI (Logo Computer Systems Inc...)
where Apple Logo came from (so homecomputer vs PC)

Btw there was Exper Logo for the Mac which was 3D.

>> Did or didn't you sent it? (In both cases I did not receive it).

>To send it, I need an e-mail address, and you did not send me a message to
>this e-mail address (I have been checking the spam I get (about 120 per day)
>since my proposal... Usually, I erase everything without checking who wrote
>me. So, click "Reply to Sender" and I should finally be able to provide you
>with this rarity...).

I did give you an e-mail address (remember the website?!), but you did not
read it well then... change Katzy at into Katzy@. before the name of the
website minus www.

Greetz, Katzy.

Heya.

Katzy wrote in message <489d7a30$0$28913$e4fe514c@dreader18.news.xs4all.nl>...

>I did give you an e-mail address (remember the website?!), but you did not
>read it well then... change Katzy at into Katzy@. before the name of the
>website minus www.

Yessss, you finally did it...

Thank you very much, Mr. Roche.

Greetz, Katzy.