CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M - CP/M

This is a discussion on CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M - CP/M ; >>> Please don't top-post ... >> Please don't tell us how to post. Your opinions on how one "should" >> post are just your own opinions and nothing more. >We are aware that you refuse to follow standard practice, however ...

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Thread: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

  1. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    >>> Please don't top-post ...

    >> Please don't tell us how to post. Your opinions on how one "should"
    >> post are just your own opinions and nothing more.


    >We are aware that you refuse to follow standard practice, however
    >please do not interfere with advising newbies of proper usenet
    >protocol.


    I'm afraid I must chime in to agree.
    I've been on USENET since 1984.
    Back then there was a sense of community.
    USENET developed guidelines for formatting and etiquette
    to facilite communications.
    22+ years of newsgroup operation is not "opinion", it's group concensus.

    May I suggest you read the Frequently Asked Questions
    such as the "Getting Started" links of
    http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/ecomm/news.html

    particularly "Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette"
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/

    --

    -- mejeep deMeep ferret!

  2. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    On Jan 30, 6:52 pm, j...@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote:
    > >>> Please don't top-post ...
    > >> Please don't tell us how to post. Your opinions on how one "should"
    > >> post are just your own opinions and nothing more.

    > >We are aware that you refuse to follow standard practice, however
    > >please do not interfere with advising newbies of proper usenet
    > >protocol.

    >
    > I'm afraid I must chime in to agree.
    > I've been on USENET since 1984.
    > Back then there was a sense of community.
    > USENET developed guidelines for formatting and etiquette
    > to facilite communications.
    > 22+ years of newsgroup operation is not "opinion", it's group concensus.


    Sorry if I did something wrong that started this, but at least the
    person who asked the original question saw my post and we have been in
    contact via e-mail, I believe I did help him out, so hopefully that
    was the main point. I'll do better with the post next time.

    Rich



  3. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    Rich Camarda wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > Sorry if I did something wrong that started this, but at least the
    > person who asked the original question saw my post and we have been
    > in contact via e-mail, I believe I did help him out, so hopefully
    > that was the main point. I'll do better with the post next time.


    That's alright. You are not expected to know everything
    immediately. That's why I posted the various links for you to
    read, which will tell you what normal practice is, and why.

    --


    "A man who is right every time is not likely to do very much."
    -- Francis Crick, co-discover of DNA
    "There is nothing more amazing than stupidity in action."
    -- Thomas Matthews


  4. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:07:20 -0500, "Steven N. Hirsch"
    wrote:

    >CBFalconer wrote:
    >>
    >> 8 inch DD is not feasible with a CPU running under 4 Mhz.

    >
    >On the platform in question, perhaps. However, I own several
    >controllers that will cheerfully run 8" DD on a 1.02Mhz. Apple ][.


    I never used Apples, but reading about the amazing Woz I do
    know that he essentially gutted his disk drives, to the point that
    Apple II disk drives were basically interchangeable with anything
    that could store/regurgatate a serial bit stream. IE no sector
    formatting whatever. Teletype, modem, tape, all the same.

    So did these ''controllers'' you mention just happen to include
    their OWN disk controller, and act merely as would any other
    peripheral, delivering data asynchronously to the rotations
    of the disk?

    Seems to me, there were things from DaVong and Rama and
    others that were more complicated than the Apple II itself. Or,
    maybe BECAUSE the Apple II was so very 'simple'.

    Bill

  5. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    Bill wrote:
    > On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:07:20 -0500, "Steven N. Hirsch"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> CBFalconer wrote:
    >>> 8 inch DD is not feasible with a CPU running under 4 Mhz.

    >> On the platform in question, perhaps. However, I own several
    >> controllers that will cheerfully run 8" DD on a 1.02Mhz. Apple ][.

    >
    > I never used Apples, but reading about the amazing Woz I do
    > know that he essentially gutted his disk drives, to the point that
    > Apple II disk drives were basically interchangeable with anything
    > that could store/regurgatate a serial bit stream. IE no sector
    > formatting whatever. Teletype, modem, tape, all the same.
    >
    > So did these ''controllers'' you mention just happen to include
    > their OWN disk controller, and act merely as would any other
    > peripheral, delivering data asynchronously to the rotations
    > of the disk?
    >
    > Seems to me, there were things from DaVong and Rama and
    > others that were more complicated than the Apple II itself. Or,
    > maybe BECAUSE the Apple II was so very 'simple'.


    I'm not sure I grasp your point, but all the devices in question (Vista,
    SVA, Taurus) have 179x family FDC chips on-board. The issue on the
    Apple (and, I suspect, with the S100 boxen in question) wasn't raw data
    transfer, it was combining transfer with low latency response to status
    register bits. To get around this, the SVA and Taurus cards (Vista
    doesn't count, as it used DMA and arguably _was_ more complex than the
    motherboard logic) employed clever schemes to manage status.

    The SVA card had a pair of almost-identical loops coded one page apart
    which got installed in SRAM on the device. One of them simply cycled
    without transferring data and the other did a copy out from a register
    to memory buffer. They were crafted to take precisely the same number of
    clocks. After setting up for a transfer, the driver set a trigger that
    toggled bit 7 of the SRAM address lines based on the /RDY line and
    vectored to the "do nothing" loop. When a sector was ready for
    transfer, it yanked the line during the appropriate clock phase and
    vectored to the "move data" image of the loop, which later reset the
    latch and went back to the original - repeat and rinse. No overhead
    required to poll status, but at 1Mhz. it _was_ (just barely) fast
    enought to keep up with DS data rates.

    Overall parts count on the SVA Megaflex controller was quite low and it
    worked like a champ.

    Steve

  6. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M



    I'm happy to report Rich and others that helped me get this working. I was able
    to get the system to boot using a pair of Qume DT/8 drives with a CP/M system
    disk formatted to DSDD. It is nice now to have some room on the drives to work
    when compiling. I decided to try the Qumes that support double side and double
    density to ready push the system and it is. IT works about 99% of the time
    unless you ready work both drives in a copy and then I get a drive not ready so
    that z80 4 mhz is ready pushed hard. The Shugarts should be ok at double density
    and I can do that with little problems now that I have the CCS bios on the boot
    tracks again. I had to recompiled the cccbois and performed the steps Rich sent
    me from the CCS software manual I was missing so thanks again.



  7. Re: CCS controller with 8" drive and CP/M

    On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:26:55 -0500, Keith
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >I'm happy to report Rich and others that helped me get this working. I was able
    >to get the system to boot using a pair of Qume DT/8 drives with a CP/M system
    >disk formatted to DSDD. It is nice now to have some room on the drives to work
    >when compiling. I decided to try the Qumes that support double side and double
    >density to ready push the system and it is. IT works about 99% of the time
    >unless you ready work both drives in a copy and then I get a drive not ready so
    >that z80 4 mhz is ready pushed hard. The Shugarts should be ok at double density
    >and I can do that with little problems now that I have the CCS bios on the boot
    >tracks again. I had to recompiled the cccbois and performed the steps Rich sent
    >me from the CCS software manual I was missing so thanks again.


    I have a CCS system [CCS 2200 box and cards] and use a Heath Z207
    drive box [dual Sa860s] with it and never had problems with tdrive to
    drive copy operations. I suspect the delays for the head load and
    step settle times are a bit short for those drives resulting in the
    floppy driver hanging up.

    I've use Sa800s at DD and there is no reason they should not work
    unless they had some internal problem that would show as marginal
    operation in SD mode.

    The only CPU speed constraint is the need to read or write the data
    during an actual sector transfer. Any other time the CPU can be as
    slow as sludge.


    Allison

    Allison

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