One person's SOL restoration project - CP/M

This is a discussion on One person's SOL restoration project - CP/M ; Just happened across this restoration experience. Might be an idea or two worth considering ... ?? http://weblog.ceicher.com/archives/2...oard_pads.html Seems to be an interesting guy .... Bill...

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Thread: One person's SOL restoration project

  1. One person's SOL restoration project

    Just happened across this restoration experience.

    Might be an idea or two worth considering ... ??

    http://weblog.ceicher.com/archives/2...oard_pads.html

    Seems to be an interesting guy ....

    Bill

  2. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip, so I guess it will just sit.
    Really stinks because I'd like to get it up and running. I wish mine only
    suffered from bad keyboard foam.

    Vince

    --
    What is the Micro-KIM?
    http://www.brielcomputers.com

    "Bill" wrote in message
    news:ivm324h21oib318m7mheg78ak5p06qq5qo@4ax.com...
    > Just happened across this restoration experience.
    >
    > Might be an idea or two worth considering ... ??
    >
    > http://weblog.ceicher.com/archives/2...oard_pads.html
    >
    > Seems to be an interesting guy ....
    >
    > Bill



  3. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    Vince Briel wrote:

    > Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip, so I guess it will just
    > sit. Really stinks because I'd like to get it up and running. I wish
    > mine only suffered from bad keyboard foam.


    Wire up a socket to adapt an EPROM to it.

    There might be some for sale, but they are pretty expensive.

    -- glen


  4. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 15:58:08 -0400, "Vince Briel"
    wrote:

    >Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip,


    What's a mcm6575 ?

    Would that be a 24 pin eprom, maybe 16k or 32k by any chance?

    About where would you value a new white/gold window&pins one ?

    Assuming you found one ... can you program them?

    I've got a Citel System 47 that can probably do them, if I know
    the settings and have the binary. I got it to program PALs and
    8748s (or is it the 8048 that's EPROMed?) Whatever. Probably
    haven't turned it on in 10 or 15 years - maybe it's toast.

    Allison can probably program them, too.

    Wouldn't a single-supply replacement work just as well?

    Seems to me they were nasty +/-5, +12v devices
    (or +/-12, +5v) (or +/-5, -12v) (did I miss one?)

    Whatever

    Bill

  5. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 15:58:08 -0400, "Vince Briel"
    wrote:

    >Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip, so I guess it will just sit.
    >Really stinks because I'd like to get it up and running. I wish mine only
    >suffered from bad keyboard foam.
    >
    >Vince


    6575 is the character generator right? If so find ANY PT VDM1 as it
    also used that same chip. If not a chip the bit map is available
    (it's a rom) and you can toast a 2764 and retrofit a socket. adaptor.

    Allison


  6. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    no.spam@no.uce.bellatlantic.net wrote:
    (snip)

    > 6575 is the character generator right? If so find ANY PT VDM1 as it
    > also used that same chip.


    Well, that would ruin a good VDM1...

    > If not a chip the bit map is available
    > (it's a rom) and you can toast a 2764 and retrofit a socket. adaptor.


    I have the bit map if you want it. The SOL documentation includes
    little pictures of the characters.

    I haven't looked at how different the pinouts are.
    A little circuit board with a header and IC socket that
    will plug into the 6575 socket shouldn't be hard to do.

    -- glen


  7. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    Bill wrote:

    > What's a mcm6575 ?


    > Would that be a 24 pin eprom, maybe 16k or 32k by any chance?


    The 6575 is a masked ROM, but EPROMs make a good replacement.

    Pretty interesting, though. It has 128 characters in a
    7x9 matrix plus one bit for descenders. That is, 64 bits
    per character with logic to shift down two rows for some
    characters.

    It fits nicely in a 2716 as an 8x16 matrix.

    -- glen


  8. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On Wed, 07 May 2008 17:02:24 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt
    wrote:

    >no.spam@no.uce.bellatlantic.net wrote:
    >(snip)
    >
    >> 6575 is the character generator right? If so find ANY PT VDM1 as it
    >> also used that same chip.

    >
    >Well, that would ruin a good VDM1...
    >
    >> If not a chip the bit map is available
    >> (it's a rom) and you can toast a 2764 and retrofit a socket. adaptor.

    >
    >I have the bit map if you want it. The SOL documentation includes
    >little pictures of the characters.
    >
    >I haven't looked at how different the pinouts are.
    >A little circuit board with a header and IC socket that
    >will plug into the 6575 socket shouldn't be hard to do.


    It would be fairly easy as the 6575 has a pinout thats close to most
    Eproms.

    I also think the Motorola data catalog for the patterns are on the net
    as well. I'm fairly certain that the VDM1 manual (also on the net)
    has the patterns as part of the data section. The trs80 mod1 used
    the same/similar part as well. It was far from rare but may be
    out of production for a long time.

    Allison

    >
    >-- glen



  9. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    >
    > It would be fairly easy as the 6575 has a pinout thats close to most
    > Eproms.
    >
    > I also think the Motorola data catalog for the patterns are on the net
    > as well. I'm fairly certain that the VDM1 manual (also on the net)
    > has the patterns as part of the data section. The trs80 mod1 used
    > the same/similar part as well. It was far from rare but may be
    > out of production for a long time.


    Yeah, I suppose I could recreate the masked ROM as an adapter board. I think
    the trs80 used similar but different part. I do have one in piece I could
    rob the chip from and convert it.

    Vince
    Briel Computers home of the replica 1 apple 1 clone
    http://www.brielcomputers.com


  10. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    The character generator is just a ROM. You can probably create an
    adapter that will work. Also, you might look for a VDM-1 and salvage
    it's chip.


    Vince Briel wrote:
    > Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip, so I guess it will just
    > sit. Really stinks because I'd like to get it up and running. I wish
    > mine only suffered from bad keyboard foam.
    >
    > Vince
    >


  11. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    no.spam@no.uce.bellatlantic.net wrote:

    > I also think the Motorola data catalog for the patterns are on the net
    > as well. I'm fairly certain that the VDM1 manual (also on the net)
    > has the patterns as part of the data section.



    88 C8 A8 98 AA 22 22 22 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 E2 22 3E 22 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 E2 12 08 14 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 F2 12 08 14 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 F0 3E 08 08 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 EC 12 12 16 0E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    60 90 F0 90 92 14 18 14 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 E0 90 E0 10 10 10 1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 E0 90 EE 10 0C 02 16 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    90 90 F0 90 90 3E 08 08 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    80 80 80 F0 1E 10 1C 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    88 88 88 50 20 3E 08 08 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 9E 10 1C 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 80 80 7C 12 1C 14 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 EC 12 12 12 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 EE 04 04 04 0E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 90 90 E0 10 10 10 1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 90 90 E4 0C 04 04 0E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 90 90 EC 12 04 08 1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 90 90 EC 02 0C 02 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 90 90 E4 0C 14 3E 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    90 D0 B0 90 92 14 18 14 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 E2 14 08 08 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 FC 12 1C 12 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 80 80 70 12 1A 16 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 F0 22 36 28 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 60 10 FC 12 1C 12 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 F0 0E 10 10 0E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F0 80 E0 80 8E 10 0C 02 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 80 B0 90 6E 10 0C 02 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    E0 90 70 90 8E 10 0C 02 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    90 90 90 90 6E 10 0C 02 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    10 10 10 10 10 00 00 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    48 48 48 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    28 28 28 FE 28 FE 28 28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    10 7E 90 90 7C 12 12 FC 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    40 A2 44 08 10 20 44 8A 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    70 88 88 50 20 52 8C 8C 72 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    18 18 10 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    08 10 20 20 20 20 20 10 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    20 10 08 08 08 08 08 10 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 10 92 54 38 54 92 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 10 10 10 FE 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 00 00 00 00 30 30 20 40 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 00 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 00 00 00 00 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 02 04 08 10 20 40 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 82 86 8A 92 A2 C2 82 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    10 30 50 10 10 10 10 10 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 82 02 04 38 40 80 80 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 82 02 02 3C 02 02 82 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    04 0C 14 24 44 84 FE 04 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 80 80 F8 04 02 02 84 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3C 40 80 80 FC 82 82 82 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 82 04 08 10 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 82 82 82 7C 82 82 82 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 82 82 82 7E 02 02 04 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 30 30 00 00 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 30 30 00 00 30 30 20 40 00 00 00 00 00
    08 10 20 40 80 40 20 10 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 7C 00 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    20 10 08 04 02 04 08 10 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3C 42 42 42 0C 10 10 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3C 42 9A AA AA BC 80 40 3C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    38 44 82 82 82 FE 82 82 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FC 42 42 42 7C 42 42 42 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3C 42 80 80 80 80 80 42 3C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    F8 44 42 42 42 42 42 44 F8 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 80 80 80 F0 80 80 80 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 80 80 80 F0 80 80 80 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3C 42 80 80 80 9E 82 42 3C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 82 82 FE 82 82 82 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3E 08 08 08 08 08 08 88 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 84 88 90 A0 D0 88 84 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 C6 AA 92 92 82 82 82 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 C2 A2 92 8A 86 82 82 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    38 44 82 82 82 82 82 44 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FC 82 82 82 FC 80 80 80 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    38 44 82 82 82 92 8A 44 3A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FC 82 82 82 FC 90 88 84 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7C 80 80 80 7C 02 02 02 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 82 82 82 82 82 82 7C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 82 44 44 28 28 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 82 82 92 92 AA C6 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 44 28 10 28 44 82 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    82 82 44 28 10 10 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    FE 02 04 08 10 20 40 80 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    78 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 80 40 20 10 08 04 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    78 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    10 28 44 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    30 30 10 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 78 04 7C 84 84 7A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    80 80 80 B8 C4 84 84 C4 D8 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 78 82 80 80 82 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    04 04 04 74 8C 84 84 8C 74 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 78 84 FC 80 80 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    14 22 20 20 F8 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 74 8C 84 8C 74 04 04 84 78 00 00 00 00
    80 80 80 B8 C4 84 84 84 84 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 10 00 30 10 10 10 10 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 0C 04 04 04 04 04 04 44 38 00 00 00 00
    80 80 80 88 90 A0 D0 88 84 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    30 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 EC 92 92 92 92 92 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 B8 C4 84 84 84 84 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 78 84 84 84 84 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 B8 C4 84 84 C4 B8 80 80 80 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 74 8C 84 84 8C 74 04 04 04 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 B8 C4 80 80 80 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 78 84 60 18 84 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 20 20 F8 20 20 20 24 18 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 84 84 84 84 8C 74 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 82 82 82 44 28 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 82 92 92 92 92 6C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 84 48 30 30 48 84 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 84 84 84 84 8C 74 04 84 78 00 00 00 00
    00 00 00 FC 08 10 20 40 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    18 20 20 20 40 20 20 20 18 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    10 10 10 00 00 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    30 08 08 08 04 08 08 08 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    60 92 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    48 92 24 48 92 24 48 92 24 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


  12. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On May 7, 11:04 pm, Barry Watzman wrote:
    > The character generator is just a ROM. You can probably create an
    > adapter that will work. Also, you might look for a VDM-1 and salvage
    > it's chip.
    >
    > Vince Briel wrote:
    > > Mine suffers a bad MCM6575.Pretty rare chip, so I guess it will just
    > > sit. Really stinks because I'd like to get it up and running. I wish
    > > mine only suffered from bad keyboard foam.

    >
    > > Vince


    There does not seem to be a readily available data sheet for this
    part, but I just looked at the schematic around the character ROM,
    from

    http://www.sol20.org/

    The Motorola chip is just a character ROM. No clocks, just address in
    and data out, seven bits out at that. Seven address lines plus four
    lines to address the rows or columns of the character (read the SOL
    manual). There are some DC voltages. It would not take much to wire
    in either another character ROM, or to use an EPROM of some sort. Just
    avoid using the wrong DC voltages.

    Also, there are parts vendors of all sorts for old parts. Could cost a
    bit, they may not deal in one's.

    Herb Johnson

    Note to Roche: this solution was "how it was done 30 years ago". This
    is a 30 year old computer so it's appropriate. Get over that.

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

  13. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    Herb Johnson wrote:
    (snip)

    > There does not seem to be a readily available data sheet for this
    > part, but I just looked at the schematic around the character ROM,
    > from


    > http://www.sol20.org/


    > The Motorola chip is just a character ROM. No clocks, just address in
    > and data out, seven bits out at that. Seven address lines plus four
    > lines to address the rows or columns of the character (read the SOL
    > manual). There are some DC voltages. It would not take much to wire
    > in either another character ROM, or to use an EPROM of some sort. Just
    > avoid using the wrong DC voltages.


    A 2716 is still in about the right time frame for SOL.

    You might even find one with a date code old enough.

    -- glen


  14. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
    : 88 C8 A8 98 AA 22 22 22 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    : 70 80 60 10 E2 22 3E 22 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

    ....

    One quick and dirty conversion later I get the font shown in
    . Some of the lower-case letters in
    that look slightly wrong - in particular the b, the c and the f.

    --
    John Elliott

    Thinks: This is what a nice clean life leads to. Hmm, why did I ever lead one?
    -- Bluebottle, in the Goon Show

  15. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On May 8, 1:43*pm, John Elliott wrote:
    > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
    >
    > : 88 C8 A8 98 AA 22 22 22 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    > : 70 80 60 10 E2 22 3E 22 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    >
    > ...
    >
    > * One quick and dirty conversion later I get the font shown in
    > . Some of the lower-case letters in
    > that look slightly wrong - in particular the b, the c and the f.
    >
    > --
    > John Elliott
    >
    > Thinks: This is what a nice clean life leads to. Hmm, why did I ever lead one?
    > * * * * * * * * -- Bluebottle, in the Goon Show



    Hi Guys,

    The datasheet for the MCM6575 is at;

    http://www.datasheetarchive.com

    Just type in MCM6575 in the search field.

    Rich

  16. Re: One person's SOL restoration project

    On May 7, 5:34 pm, no.s...@no.uce.bellatlantic.net wrote:
    ....
    > 6575 is the character generator right? If so find ANY PT VDM1 as it
    > also used that same chip. If not a chip the bit map is available
    > (it's a rom) and you can toast a 2764 and retrofit a socket. adaptor.


    My Sol emulator, Solace, has a few C files with different character
    generators, all of them historically accurate. The data for the 6574
    and 6575 character generators was entered from the bitmaps in the Sol
    manual. Then there is another pair of character sets that can be
    configured for the emulator -- this was a one-off hack to allow a user
    of Solace to run some of his old programs that used Devanagri and
    Dzonkha script (his Sol has been hacked to support those character
    sets).




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