8" Shugart SA801's on a PC - CP/M

This is a discussion on 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC - CP/M ; Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images). Have the following setup: Acer P75, DOS 6.22 CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c) DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to ...

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Thread: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

  1. 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    Have the following setup:

    Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter

    Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    Ran power to the DBit board
    Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it into
    the DBit 50-pin connector
    Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.

    In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the CC4DRV.SYS
    driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )

    Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC Interrupt'
    Dir gives Not Ready...
    Format.com gives Not Ready...
    TeleDisk gives Not Ready...

    I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED light
    up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b: does DS1)

    Any ideas?
    Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    SA801's?

    The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34 (DC/RDY).
    II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on the PC side, and
    no dice.

    Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on this for
    2 days now.


    Tony


    Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com

  2. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    On Mar 2, 12:13 am, Tony wrote:
    > Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    > Have the following setup:
    >
    > Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    > CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    > DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter
    >
    > Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    > Ran power to the DBit board
    > Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it into
    > the DBit 50-pin connector
    > Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.
    >
    > In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the CC4DRV.SYS
    > driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    > (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )
    >
    > Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC Interrupt'
    > Dir gives Not Ready...
    > Format.com gives Not Ready...
    > TeleDisk gives Not Ready...
    >
    > I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED light
    > up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b: does DS1)
    >
    > Any ideas?
    > Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    > SA801's?
    >
    > The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34 (DC/RDY).
    > II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on the PC side, and
    > no dice.
    >
    > Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on this for
    > 2 days now.
    >
    > Tony
    >
    > Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com


    1) Does the Compaticard IV and your drivers work with 5.25-inch or
    3.5- inch drives? Try that.

    2) Does your Shugart 800 drive work, to your knowledge? It's
    informative that the drive lights when selected and the "click" you
    hear is likely the head loading mechanism (a pad pushes the diskette
    against the read/write head). You need to be sure the terminator
    jumpers are set on the LAST or only drive at the far end of the cable.
    Make sure the read/write head is cleaned of any junk, from scraping
    old diskettes.

    3) You may need to set or remove other jumpers on the Shugart 800
    drive. You might look for the "ready" line on the drive and see what
    jumpers are associated with that. I'd use an oscilloscope to look at
    signals to and from the drive. I don't know if a logic probe would be
    adequate.

    There were three or four models of the Shugart 800/801. They have
    differnent circuit boards with different part numbers on the PC board.
    I suggest you determine which model you have. Manuals for that drive
    (shugart 800 or 801) with jumper info, schematics and descriptions are
    available from me via this Web page:

    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs...ives.html#DOCS

    ...as photocopies for a per page fee plus postage and handling.
    (Contact me via my Web site for details, not via this newsgroup, not
    via gmail.) Part numbers are mentioned on that Web page.

    Herb Johnson
    retrotechnology.com

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

  3. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Herb Johnson wrote in
    news:c5aa5964-f87f-441d-a085-f01ee864c95e@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

    > On Mar 2, 12:13 am, Tony wrote:
    >> Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk
    >> images). Have the following setup:
    >>
    >> Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >> CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >> DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter
    >>
    >> Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    >> Ran power to the DBit board
    >> Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it
    >> into the DBit 50-pin connector
    >> Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.
    >>
    >> In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the
    >> CC4DRV.SYS driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    >> (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )
    >>
    >> Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC
    >> Interrupt' Dir gives Not Ready...
    >> Format.com gives Not Ready...
    >> TeleDisk gives Not Ready...
    >>
    >> I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED
    >> light up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b:
    >> does DS1)
    >>
    >> Any ideas?
    >> Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >> SA801's?
    >>
    >> The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34
    >> (DC/RDY). II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on
    >> the PC side, and no dice.
    >>
    >> Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on
    >> this for 2 days now.
    >>
    >> Tony
    >>
    >> Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com

    >
    > 1) Does the Compaticard IV and your drivers work with 5.25-inch or
    > 3.5- inch drives? Try that.


    Works fine with 5.25", as I wrote out some DEC RX50 disks for a Rainbow
    100 just a couple nights ago. Also, I;ve been using a 3.5" to transfer
    disk images from my laptop, so i know it works with 3.5" and 5.25"
    I do have the CC4DRV.SYS loading, and properly configured for 8" drives,
    and
    running CCDRIVES.COM correctly acknowledge the drivers knowing A: and B:
    are 8" drives.

    >
    > 2) Does your Shugart 800 drive work, to your knowledge? It's
    > informative that the drive lights when selected and the "click" you
    > hear is likely the head loading mechanism (a pad pushes the diskette
    > against the read/write head). You need to be sure the terminator
    > jumpers are set on the LAST or only drive at the far end of the cable.
    > Make sure the read/write head is cleaned of any junk, from scraping
    > old diskettes.


    I assume they work, and I assume they are properly terminated, as they
    are still sitting inside the Altos chassis. I'm just trying to make sure
    there isn;t something special required to get SA801's working in this
    setup. I thought someone mentioned a special jumpering/extra wire(s)
    required for SA801's (John @ dbit) for them to work on a PC.

    >
    > 3) You may need to set or remove other jumpers on the Shugart 800
    > drive. You might look for the "ready" line on the drive and see what
    > jumpers are associated with that. I'd use an oscilloscope to look at
    > signals to and from the drive. I don't know if a logic probe would be
    > adequate.


    Ive tried hot-wiring both DC (pin 12) and RDY (Pin 22) directly to pin
    34 (DC) on the CC IV, to no avail. Always a Not Ready error.
    I have an Oscilloscope (Tek 2235), not that I even know how to use it,
    though!

    >
    > There were three or four models of the Shugart 800/801. They have
    > differnent circuit boards with different part numbers on the PC board.
    > I suggest you determine which model you have. Manuals for that drive
    > (shugart 800 or 801) with jumper info, schematics and descriptions are
    > available from me via this Web page:
    >


    I have the PDF's of the manuals, thanks to Al Kossow and Harte Tech, but
    thanks, Herb - you're always on my list for what I can't find online!

    Many thanks for the assistance - it's getting a bit frustrating.

    A bit off-topic - Herb, can you send me, to the email below, what ya
    got, in an external 8" DS/DD drive, in an enclosure, ready-to-go for
    reading/writing images? It's not to replace a drive from a computer, so
    that makes it a bit less tedious in facts needed. I simply need
    something already with a PSU, and with a 50-pin IDC connector for the
    interface, so preferably the internal wiring of the drive is already
    there to a 50-pin IDC on the back panel, or a 50-pin IDC ribbon cable
    coming out would also suffice.
    It would be going to zip code 33126

    Tony
    sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com

  4. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:13:43 GMT, Tony
    wrote:

    >Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    >Have the following setup:
    >
    >Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter


    >Any ideas?
    >Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >SA801's?


    Seems to me I used Uniform along with the Compaticard.

    You still have to do a translation from DOS (and FAT) to
    CP/M and its chain of logical data blocks. Or whatever it's
    called. CC4DRV.SYS is a hardware driver, for the card.

    You don't mention what software driver you're using.

    You do know you need one, right?

    Bill

  5. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Bill wrote in
    news:78gms3tv3a8lkpo3u7h42t9j91b7li1mdn@4ax.com:

    > On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:13:43 GMT, Tony
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    >>Have the following setup:
    >>
    >>Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >>CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >>DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter

    >
    >>Any ideas?
    >>Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >>SA801's?

    >
    > Seems to me I used Uniform along with the Compaticard.
    >
    > You still have to do a translation from DOS (and FAT) to
    > CP/M and its chain of logical data blocks. Or whatever it's
    > called. CC4DRV.SYS is a hardware driver, for the card.
    >
    > You don't mention what software driver you're using.
    >
    > You do know you need one, right?


    Can you define "driver"?
    I'm trying to get IMD and/or TeleDisk to read/write the 8" drive.
    These are imaging utilities that are able to directly read/write just about
    any FDD's out there.

    I am not trying to read data from the diskettes, like UniForm or 22Disk do.
    I am trying to write whole-disk images out to the 8" diskettes, as
    mentioned in the OP.

    As for a driver, I *AM* loading the CC IV's CC4DRV.SYS, which is how you
    specify the 'type' of drive attached. the 8" and DS/QD drives qualify as
    "other," so they need to be configured using the CC4DRV.SYS device driver.


    Tony
    sharkownheels -@t- g|\/|ail.com

  6. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Tony wrote in
    news:Xns9A55E4A7F1F3Aboboyouwishcom@216.77.188.18:

    > Bill wrote in
    > news:78gms3tv3a8lkpo3u7h42t9j91b7li1mdn@4ax.com:
    >
    >> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:13:43 GMT, Tony
    >> wrote:

    > device driver.
    >
    >

    Blah...blah...


    It was an ESO error, folks....Equipment Superior to Operator...

    Even though Mike *TOLD* me so......
    I was using DS media in a SS drive...

    Herb came to show exactly why he is "Dr. S-100"...
    He was pretty quick in the diagnosis...
    Thanks, Herb - as I said in email, ya prolly saved my sanity!

    Both SA801's read and write...however, can't get the Altos ACS8000 to boot
    off the CP/M media I made (3 diff versions) in it's own drive.

    I imaged back in (IMD) and used debug to verify that it was a CP/M disk.

    Well, that is for another day....at least I know the drives read+write

    what maintenance can I do? besides cleaning?
    I heard a li'l squeaking...is there a worm gear on the underside that might
    need lubing or something like that?

    GOnna download the maint manual from bitsavers, and see what these things
    like to be fed....

    Thanks folks!


    Tony
    sharkonwheels -@t- g|\/|ail.com

  7. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    >
    > It was an ESO error, folks....Equipment Superior to Operator...
    >
    > Even though Mike *TOLD* me so......
    > I was using DS media in a SS drive...


    Why does using double-sided media in a single-sided drive matter?
    Doesn't the drive just ignore the second side?

    Tom Lake

  8. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:37:07 -0500, "Tom Lake"
    wrote:

    >>
    >> It was an ESO error, folks....Equipment Superior to Operator...
    >>
    >> Even though Mike *TOLD* me so......
    >> I was using DS media in a SS drive...

    >
    >Why does using double-sided media in a single-sided drive matter?
    >Doesn't the drive just ignore the second side?
    >
    >Tom Lake


    For 8" drive there are two differnt media and where the sector hole
    window is placed is different for 2sided VS single sided. It's so the
    drive can signal that it has 2sided media rahter than single sided.
    Not all 8" drives did that but, most did.

    Allison

  9. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Herb Johnson wrote:
    > On Mar 2, 12:13 am, Tony wrote:
    >> Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    >> Have the following setup:
    >>
    >> Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >> CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >> DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter
    >>
    >> Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    >> Ran power to the DBit board
    >> Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it into
    >> the DBit 50-pin connector
    >> Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.
    >>
    >> In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the CC4DRV.SYS
    >> driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    >> (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )
    >>
    >> Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC Interrupt'
    >> Dir gives Not Ready...
    >> Format.com gives Not Ready...
    >> TeleDisk gives Not Ready...
    >>
    >> I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED light
    >> up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b: does DS1)
    >>
    >> Any ideas?
    >> Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >> SA801's?
    >>
    >> The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34 (DC/RDY).
    >> II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on the PC side, and
    >> no dice.
    >>
    >> Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on this for
    >> 2 days now.
    >>
    >> Tony
    >>
    >> Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com

    >
    > 1) Does the Compaticard IV and your drivers work with 5.25-inch or
    > 3.5- inch drives? Try that.
    >
    > 2) Does your Shugart 800 drive work, to your knowledge? It's
    > informative that the drive lights when selected and the "click" you
    > hear is likely the head loading mechanism (a pad pushes the diskette
    > against the read/write head). You need to be sure the terminator
    > jumpers are set on the LAST or only drive at the far end of the cable.
    > Make sure the read/write head is cleaned of any junk, from scraping
    > old diskettes.
    >
    > 3) You may need to set or remove other jumpers on the Shugart 800
    > drive. You might look for the "ready" line on the drive and see what
    > jumpers are associated with that. I'd use an oscilloscope to look at
    > signals to and from the drive. I don't know if a logic probe would be
    > adequate.
    >
    > There were three or four models of the Shugart 800/801. They have
    > differnent circuit boards with different part numbers on the PC board.
    > I suggest you determine which model you have. Manuals for that drive
    > (shugart 800 or 801) with jumper info, schematics and descriptions are
    > available from me via this Web page:
    >
    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs...ives.html#DOCS
    >
    > ..as photocopies for a per page fee plus postage and handling.
    > (Contact me via my Web site for details, not via this newsgroup, not
    > via gmail.) Part numbers are mentioned on that Web page.
    >
    > Herb Johnson
    > retrotechnology.com
    >
    > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    > http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    > my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    > if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    > "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    > S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"


    Herb, didn't one of the 801 versions rely on external PLL etc? It seems
    I had an old Digital Research drive setup [a few decades ago] that had
    it's own controller board that provided the signals.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  10. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC


    > Herb, didn't one of the 801 versions rely on external PLL etc? It seems
    > I had an old Digital Research drive setup [a few decades ago] that had
    > it's own controller board that provided the signals.


    I'm interested in your "setup". Contact me privately at my email
    addresses at the end of this message.

    The Shugart 800 and 801 were the same circuit board with different
    strapping or jumpering options. I believe the 801 was jumpered to
    offer additional decoding of the (hard-sectored) index/sector sensor,
    to seperate the index signal from the sector signal. Anyone interested
    should refer to the Shugart manuals for specifics. The 800/801 series
    had about FOUR major changes of circuit board and design, so you have
    to get docs for whatever boards are on your drive. I offer the docs on
    my Web site, but others offer them as well.

    Herb Johnson
    retrotechnology.com

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"



  11. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC


    "TheEngr" wrote in message
    news:47de8f54$0$25978$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
    > Herb Johnson wrote:
    >> On Mar 2, 12:13 am, Tony wrote:
    >>> Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    >>> Have the following setup:
    >>>
    >>> Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >>> CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >>> DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter
    >>>
    >>> Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    >>> Ran power to the DBit board
    >>> Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it
    >>> into
    >>> the DBit 50-pin connector
    >>> Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.
    >>>
    >>> In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the
    >>> CC4DRV.SYS
    >>> driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    >>> (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )
    >>>
    >>> Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC Interrupt'
    >>> Dir gives Not Ready...
    >>> Format.com gives Not Ready...
    >>> TeleDisk gives Not Ready...
    >>>
    >>> I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED
    >>> light
    >>> up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b: does
    >>> DS1)
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas?
    >>> Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >>> SA801's?
    >>>
    >>> The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34
    >>> (DC/RDY).
    >>> II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on the PC side,
    >>> and
    >>> no dice.
    >>>
    >>> Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on this
    >>> for
    >>> 2 days now.
    >>>
    >>> Tony
    >>>
    >>> Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com

    >>
    >> 1) Does the Compaticard IV and your drivers work with 5.25-inch or
    >> 3.5- inch drives? Try that.
    >>
    >> 2) Does your Shugart 800 drive work, to your knowledge? It's
    >> informative that the drive lights when selected and the "click" you
    >> hear is likely the head loading mechanism (a pad pushes the diskette
    >> against the read/write head). You need to be sure the terminator
    >> jumpers are set on the LAST or only drive at the far end of the cable.
    >> Make sure the read/write head is cleaned of any junk, from scraping
    >> old diskettes.
    >>
    >> 3) You may need to set or remove other jumpers on the Shugart 800
    >> drive. You might look for the "ready" line on the drive and see what
    >> jumpers are associated with that. I'd use an oscilloscope to look at
    >> signals to and from the drive. I don't know if a logic probe would be
    >> adequate.
    >>
    >> There were three or four models of the Shugart 800/801. They have
    >> differnent circuit boards with different part numbers on the PC board.
    >> I suggest you determine which model you have. Manuals for that drive
    >> (shugart 800 or 801) with jumper info, schematics and descriptions are
    >> available from me via this Web page:
    >>
    >> http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs...ives.html#DOCS
    >>
    >> ..as photocopies for a per page fee plus postage and handling.
    >> (Contact me via my Web site for details, not via this newsgroup, not
    >> via gmail.) Part numbers are mentioned on that Web page.
    >>
    >> Herb Johnson
    >> retrotechnology.com
    >>
    >> Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    >> http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    >> http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    >> my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    >> if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    >> "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    >> S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

    >
    > Herb, didn't one of the 801 versions rely on external PLL etc? It seems I
    > had an old Digital Research drive setup [a few decades ago] that had it's
    > own controller board that provided the signals.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    >


    In 1976 we originally used the Calcomp 140 8" floppy drives with Calcomp's
    add-on data separator, one for each drive with the introduction of the IMSAI
    IFM/FIB disk controller.

    These proved to be temperamental and extremely fragile with power supply
    fluctuation. We overcame this expensive and troublesome problem by
    upgrading to the Calcomp 142's and 142M's with introduction of the IMSAI DIO
    series controllers in 1977 which brought us out of the IBM 3740 Single
    Density era into the realm of variable formats and increased data capacity.

    This said, it begs the question as to whether Shugart also had a similar
    offering (external PLL) at the time? I never saw or heard of other
    applications requiring the external data separator at that time, but my
    experience and exposure was understandably narrowly focused on IMSAI
    compatibility.

    As a footnote, when we introduced the HD-10 5MB fixed/5MB removable hard
    drive system in 1977, we used the Xcomp S100 formatter/interface board set
    for control with the newly-developed and proprietary IMDOS variant of CP/M.



  12. Re: 8" Shugart SA801's on a PC

    Thomas "Todd" Fischer wrote:
    > "TheEngr" wrote in message
    > news:47de8f54$0$25978$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
    >> Herb Johnson wrote:
    >>> On Mar 2, 12:13 am, Tony wrote:
    >>>> Trying to write out Altos ACS8000 disk images (IMD or TeleDisk images).
    >>>> Have the following setup:
    >>>>
    >>>> Acer P75, DOS 6.22
    >>>> CompatiCard IV (hardware bios 1.05c)
    >>>> DBit.com's FDADAP 34-pin to 50-pin adapter
    >>>>
    >>>> Set up the cable from the CompatiCard IV to the DBit
    >>>> Ran power to the DBit board
    >>>> Unplugged the floppy cable from the ACS8000 Mainboard, and plugged it
    >>>> into
    >>>> the DBit 50-pin connector
    >>>> Powered up Altos (to power the drives) and then booted the PC up.
    >>>>
    >>>> In CompatiCard, and the PC, the 8" are A: and B: I installed the
    >>>> CC4DRV.SYS
    >>>> driver, and told it the first and seond drives are 8"
    >>>> (DEVICE=C:\COMPCARD\CC4DRV.SYS /A0,4 /A1,4 )
    >>>>
    >>>> Anything I try, I get a Not Ready Error - IMD gives 'No FDC Interrupt'
    >>>> Dir gives Not Ready...
    >>>> Format.com gives Not Ready...
    >>>> TeleDisk gives Not Ready...
    >>>>
    >>>> I can hear the 801 click when trying to read, and I can see the LED
    >>>> light
    >>>> up... And they are individually reachable (A: lights up DS0, b: does
    >>>> DS1)
    >>>>
    >>>> Any ideas?
    >>>> Am I missing something special that needs to be done on the Shugart
    >>>> SA801's?
    >>>>
    >>>> The DBit FDADAP, from the traces, runs pin-12 (DC) to PC pin-34
    >>>> (DC/RDY).
    >>>> II've tried jumpering over RDY as well as DC to pin-34 on the PC side,
    >>>> and
    >>>> no dice.
    >>>>
    >>>> Any advice would be appreciated - I've been spinning my wheels on this
    >>>> for
    >>>> 2 days now.
    >>>>
    >>>> Tony
    >>>>
    >>>> Sharkonwheels -at- g|\/|ail.com
    >>> 1) Does the Compaticard IV and your drivers work with 5.25-inch or
    >>> 3.5- inch drives? Try that.
    >>>
    >>> 2) Does your Shugart 800 drive work, to your knowledge? It's
    >>> informative that the drive lights when selected and the "click" you
    >>> hear is likely the head loading mechanism (a pad pushes the diskette
    >>> against the read/write head). You need to be sure the terminator
    >>> jumpers are set on the LAST or only drive at the far end of the cable.
    >>> Make sure the read/write head is cleaned of any junk, from scraping
    >>> old diskettes.
    >>>
    >>> 3) You may need to set or remove other jumpers on the Shugart 800
    >>> drive. You might look for the "ready" line on the drive and see what
    >>> jumpers are associated with that. I'd use an oscilloscope to look at
    >>> signals to and from the drive. I don't know if a logic probe would be
    >>> adequate.
    >>>
    >>> There were three or four models of the Shugart 800/801. They have
    >>> differnent circuit boards with different part numbers on the PC board.
    >>> I suggest you determine which model you have. Manuals for that drive
    >>> (shugart 800 or 801) with jumper info, schematics and descriptions are
    >>> available from me via this Web page:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs...ives.html#DOCS
    >>>
    >>> ..as photocopies for a per page fee plus postage and handling.
    >>> (Contact me via my Web site for details, not via this newsgroup, not
    >>> via gmail.) Part numbers are mentioned on that Web page.
    >>>
    >>> Herb Johnson
    >>> retrotechnology.com
    >>>
    >>> Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    >>> http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
    >>> http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
    >>> my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    >>> if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    >>> "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    >>> S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

    >> Herb, didn't one of the 801 versions rely on external PLL etc? It seems I
    >> had an old Digital Research drive setup [a few decades ago] that had it's
    >> own controller board that provided the signals.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    >>

    >
    > In 1976 we originally used the Calcomp 140 8" floppy drives with Calcomp's
    > add-on data separator, one for each drive with the introduction of the IMSAI
    > IFM/FIB disk controller.
    >
    > These proved to be temperamental and extremely fragile with power supply
    > fluctuation. We overcame this expensive and troublesome problem by
    > upgrading to the Calcomp 142's and 142M's with introduction of the IMSAI DIO
    > series controllers in 1977 which brought us out of the IBM 3740 Single
    > Density era into the realm of variable formats and increased data capacity.
    >
    > This said, it begs the question as to whether Shugart also had a similar
    > offering (external PLL) at the time? I never saw or heard of other
    > applications requiring the external data separator at that time, but my
    > experience and exposure was understandably narrowly focused on IMSAI
    > compatibility.
    >
    > As a footnote, when we introduced the HD-10 5MB fixed/5MB removable hard
    > drive system in 1977, we used the Xcomp S100 formatter/interface board set
    > for control with the newly-developed and proprietary IMDOS variant of CP/M.
    >
    >

    Sorry for the very late follow-up, guys. I had obtained the particular
    IMSAI 8080 and Digital Research external 8" dual floppy setup from a
    business that replace it with a TRS80 Mod I, as I recall. It came with
    the CP/M 1.3 and a 1.4 upgrade. ;-) I remember I thought I'd be
    brilliant and upgrade to more modern double sided set of drives, so I
    sold the drives without paying much attention. With my flaky memory
    these days, it is possible that they were Shugart 800-1 and not 801
    drives, something very similar to those numbers in any case. I do
    remember my momentary frustration when I realized that something was
    very different with the newer drives. I ended up bypassing the external
    board in the DR case and just using it as a cabinet/PS for the new
    drives directly connected to a controller card.

    A few moves and decades later, I know I must still have them; they are
    just residing in one of the unpacked crates in my rather large storage
    locker of 'older' hardware! Perhaps after I get taxes done, property tax
    revaluation appeal submitted and the last kid married off, I'll rummage
    around and try to see if one of the old beasts will fire up. I might
    even look at that controller board in the top section of the case. If
    I'm lucky, I'll find the crate with the documentation for the DR setup
    also. I might even find out which crate holds all the original cards
    from the IMSAI.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

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