Solution for PLM80 ISIS compiler reading past EOF - CP/M

This is a discussion on Solution for PLM80 ISIS compiler reading past EOF - CP/M ; French Luser wrote: > .... snip ... > > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files) > would be very useful. Does someone ...

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Thread: Solution for PLM80 ISIS compiler reading past EOF

  1. Re: PLM80 ISIS compiler questions.

    French Luser wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like
    > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files)
    > would be very useful. Does someone know of such a tool? For
    > CP/M? For MS-DOS? Source code available? Else, it will be
    > "yet another programming project"...)


    For MSDOS just install the DJGPP system.

    --
    "I have a creative mind. You (singular) are eccentric.
    He is insane. We are losing sight of reality.
    You (plural) are smoking crack. They are certifiable."
    Declension of verbs, per Lewin Edwards


  2. Re: PLM80 ISIS compiler questions.




    On 2007-01-12 French Luser said:

    > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like
    > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files)
    > would be very useful. Does someone know of such a tool? For
    > CP/M? For MS-DOS? Source code available? Else, it will be
    > "yet another programming project"...)
    >
    > Emmanuel Roche



    There are numerous GREP programs available for DOS. Use any
    search engine to find them.

    Remember: "Google is your friend." ( http://www.google.com )

    There's a CP/M-86 version of GREP that -might- work with
    the "Personal CP/M-86" that you use. Here's the link:

    http://www.seanet.com/~klaw/86filutl.zip



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  3. Re: PLM80 ISIS compiler questions.


    French Luser wrote:
    > Back home, I refound the reference to LLL in a print-out of a
    > WS4 file that is on one of my Epson QX-10 floppies (that I have
    > not yet transferred to an IBM Clown). (Some excerpts of this
    > file ("CPMHIST.WS4") where published in TCJ ("The Computer
    > Journal") in the issue dealing with the death of Gary Kildall.
    > This file contains the oldest articles I was able to find about
    > CP/M.) Below is the paragraph were LLL is mentioned:
    >
    > "Meanwhile, John Torode redesigned and refined our original
    > controller and produced his first complete computer system,
    > marketed under his company name, Digital Systems (which later
    > became Digital Microsystems). The first commercial licensing of
    > CP/M took place in 1975 with contracts between Digital Systems
    > and Omron of America for use in their intelligent terminal, and
    > with Lawrence Livermore Laboratories where CP/M was used to
    > monitor programs in the Octopus network. Little was paid to CP/M
    > for about a year. In my spare time, I worked to improve overall
    > facilities, and added an editor, assembler, and debugger which
    > were predecessors of the current ED, ASM, and DDT programs. By
    > this time, CP/M has been adapted for 4 different controllers."
    >
    > The man who wrote those lines was named Gary Kildall, and the
    > references of the article is: "The Evolution of an Industry: One
    > Person's Viewpoint", DDJ, No.41, JAN 1980, Vol.5, No.1, p.6.
    > (This particular issue of DDJ is interesting, since it is a
    > "Special CP/M Issue".)
    >
    > Hope it helps.
    >


    Yes, it helps alot! I find that I have this article, so I'll post a
    synopsis:

    Notes from the article in DDJ No. 41 pg 6,7. Jan, 1980.

    'The Evolution of an Industry: One Person's Viewpoint'
    "The History of CP/M"
    By Gary A. Kildall

    GK describes 1973, working at Intel as a consultant, having the job to
    design and develop certain software tools. One was Interp/80, a
    program which simulated Intel's newly evolved 8080 microprocessor, to
    be used by Intel customers on timesharing systems. It was 1973 that
    Masatoshi Shima's first 8080 chip came to life, in a lab down the hall
    from Gary's office at Intel.

    GK says his proposal to Intel had been simple: he would provide them
    with a language, called PL/M, to replace serious systems programming in
    assembly language. The compiler would be written in FORTRAN for
    operation on timesharing computers and "cross compile" to the eight-bit
    processors. Next step was to write a PL/M compiler in PL/M and
    "boot-strap" from the timesharing computer to a resident compiler
    operating on Intel's new Intellec-8 development system. GK says the
    first part was complete, the PL/M cross compilers and Interp simulators
    were implemented for the 8008 and 8080. Programs had been written and
    tested "by Intel's software group, consisting of myself and two other
    people, and we were ready for the real machine. Things were going
    well: the resident compiler would be the next step."

    Then GK describes the snag:
    "Unfortunately, nearly all small computer systems in 1973 used paper
    tape as the backup storage device, with the ubiquitous model 33
    Teletype serving as the nerve-shattering I/O device. It was readily
    apparent that resident development systems could not compete with
    timesharing services when considering throughput, resources, and
    services. Still the notion of a personal computer for software
    development interested everyone."

    GK doesn't give a date for the next account, but the window is after
    the above realization set in and well before the "fall of 1974," which
    marks the date GK gives of when "John Torode became interested in the
    project."

    GK continues, saying he "became intriqued with a new device, called a
    floppy disk, which, though designed by IBM to replace punch cards,
    appeared to have much greater potential. The device was ideal: over
    3,000 times the data rate of a Teletype, each $7 diskette could
    randomly access the equivalent of 2000 feet of paper tape. Best of
    all, the drive was priced at a low $500. Due to a slight problem of
    undercapitalization, I found this incredibly low price still a bit
    high." GK says Dave Scott, then marketing manager at Shugart
    Associates, a few miles up the road from Intel, donated one of the
    10,000 hour test drives to the cause, complete with worn out bearings,
    but with a bearing repair kit. GK says it was only later, when he sat
    at his office at home, staring at the naked disk drive, that he
    realized he had no cabinet, no cables, no power supply, no controller,
    and "most distressing of all, no hardware design experience. To make
    matters worse, no controllers were commercially available, even if I
    could afford one."

    GK continues, "After several abortive attempts at contructing an
    interface to my Intellec-8, it became readily apparent that my efforts
    would be better directed toward the software aspects." GK says that
    between projects he put together the first CP/M file system, designed
    to support a resident PL/M compiler. The timesharing version of PL/M,
    along with the Interp simulator allowed him to develop and checkout the
    various file operations to the level of primitive disk I/O. "A
    simulation is, after all, just a simulation, and the inability to make
    that 10,000 hour drive work for just one more hour was frustrating."

    "Shortly thereafter, in the fall of 1974, John Torode became interested
    in the project. I offered as much moral support as possible while John
    worked through the aberrations of the IBM standard to complete one of
    my aborted controllers. Our first controller was a beautiful rat's
    nest of wirewraps, boards and cables (well, at least it was beautiful
    to us!) which, by good fortune, often performed seeks, reads, and
    writes just as requested. For agonizing minutes, we loaded the CP/M
    machine code through the paper tape reader into the Intellec-8 memory.
    To our amazement, the disk system went through its initialization and
    printed the CP/M prompt at the Teletype."

    "Anyone who has brought-up CP/M on a homebuilt computer has felt this
    moment of elation. A myriad of connections are properly closed, bits
    are flying at lightning speeds over busses and through circuits and
    program logic, to produce a single prompt. In comparison to our paper
    tape devices, we had the power of a S/370 at our fingertips. A few
    nervous tests confirmed that all was working properly, so we retired
    for the evening to take on the simpler task of emptying a jug of
    not-so-good red wine while recontructing battles, and speculating on
    the future of our new software tool."

    The account above comparing the Floppy Drive to the Teletype
    throughput, shows indeed, what a performance disappointment using the
    model 33 Teletype was, in the attempt at a resident development system.
    As the fates would have it, just as Gary has the success of the
    resident development system software at his door... GK continues:

    "In the months that followed, CP/M evolved rather slowly. Intel was
    experiencing enormous growth and all software development was halted
    while new management structures were instituted. Intel expressed no
    interest in CP/M, nor in continuing any resident compiler work. Nearly
    two years passed before Intel again took interest in resident software
    tools, with their introduction of the ISIS operating system and later,
    the resident PL/M-80 compiler."

    "Meanwhile, John Torode redesigned and refined our original controller
    and produced his first complete computer system, marketed under his
    company name, Digital Systems (which later became Digital
    Microsystems). The first commercial licensing of CP/M took place in
    1975 with contracts between Digital Systems and Omron of America for
    use in their intelligent terminal, and with Lawrence Livermore
    Laboratories where CP/M was used to monitor programs in the Octopus
    network. Little attention was paid to CP/M for about a year. In my
    spare time, I worked to improve overall facilities, and added an
    editor, assembler, and debugger which were predecessors of the current
    ED, ASM, and DDT programs. By this time, CP/M had been adapted to four
    different controllers."

    So it was John Torode who provided the commercial licensing to LLL of
    the 1975 BDOS.PLM, as part of a mostly turnkey system it sounds like -
    as he provided hardware also, references to the Octopus interface are
    in the BDOS.PLM LLL version, with copyright Gary A. Kildall. At this
    point we are pre-DRI. In the entire article there is no mention of
    Gary's Naval attachments to teaching, just that he worked as a
    consultant to Intel. With this account in hand, there is no basis to
    the claim that CP/M was 'developed at a public institution'. The whole
    of the notion of CP/M surrounds Gary's initial propsal to Intel, the
    CP/M filesystem was an outgrowth of that as the CP/M file system was
    "..designed to support a resident PL/M compiler."

    GK goes on to say: in 1976, Glenn Ewing approached, as a consultant to
    Imsai, needing a version adapted "to yet another controller, and thus
    the notion of a separated Basic I/O System (BIOS) evolved. In
    principle, the hardware dependent portions of CP/M were concentrated in
    the BIOS, thus allowing Glenn, or anyone else, to adapt CP/M to the
    Imsai equipment. Imsai was subsequently licensed to distribute CP/M
    version 1.3 which eventually evolved into an operating system called
    IMDOS."

    "By coincidence, Jim Warren and I were both consulting at Signets
    Corporation during this time. Jim was then the editor of DDJ, and
    pushed for the sale of CP/M to the general public. There was, at the
    time, a pervading paranoia among software vendors who felt that any and
    all loose software would be immediately "ripped-off" by this immoral
    group of computer junkies. Jim's faith in the industry, however, led
    me to introduce the CP/M 1.3 system for sale on the open market at $70
    a copy. In the months that followed, the nature of the computer
    hobbyist became apparent. In most cases he was, like myself, in the
    computer industry and merely wanted a personal computer for his own
    endeavors. CP/M gradually gained popularity through a "grassroots"
    effect and, to the amazement of the skeptics, the rip-off factor was
    practically nil. A new company called Digital Research was formed to
    support CP/M, develop new products, and provide administrative
    functions."

    So there is the Date of DRI as 1976, and the first version sold to the
    general public is v1.3, and the separate IMSAI version of 1.3 and the
    impetus of this version was the need to separate the BIOS from the BDOS
    so that the Bios could be easily modified for other controllers and
    hardware by system implementers.

    The DRI date of 1976, the date of the general public sales, and the DDJ
    article's date of January 1980 - meaning this was written by GK
    sometime in 1979 - allow the next statement to make sense.

    GK continues-
    "It's been nearly three years since CP/M's initial introduction, with
    several revisions and improvements."-

    GK must mean by 'CP/M initial introduction', the _DRI_ general public
    sales introduction of 1976.

    -"Although floppy disks maintain their popularity, CP/M 2.0 is now
    offered to manage larger capacity hard disks which are becoming more
    readily available. Customer needs and demands have led to the recent
    introductions of MP/M, a CP/M compatible multiterminal multprogramming
    system for more sophisticated applications."

    The atricle wraps up with a discussion of economics of software
    development, pointing to the large indivdual customer base as a factor
    in affordable software development cost versus the narrow customer base
    of traditional installations.

    --eof--

    Thanks for finding your reference to this article, luckily I had it to
    look up. It resolves, for me, many things about the 'early years'.


  4. Re: PLM80 ISIS compiler questions.

    s_dubrovich@yahoo.com wrote:

    > Yes, it helps alot! I find that I have this article, so I'll post a
    > synopsis:
    >
    > Notes from the article in DDJ No. 41 pg 6,7. Jan, 1980.
    >
    > 'The Evolution of an Industry: One Person's Viewpoint'
    > "The History of CP/M"
    > By Gary A. Kildall
    >
    > So there is the Date of DRI as 1976, and the first version sold to the
    > general public is v1.3, and the separate IMSAI version of 1.3 and the
    > impetus of this version was the need to separate the BIOS from the BDOS
    > so that the Bios could be easily modified for other controllers and
    > hardware by system implementers.
    >
    > The DRI date of 1976, the date of the general public sales, and the DDJ
    > article's date of January 1980 - meaning this was written by GK
    > sometime in 1979 - allow the next statement to make sense.
    >
    > GK continues-
    > "It's been nearly three years since CP/M's initial introduction, with
    > several revisions and improvements."-
    >
    > GK must mean by 'CP/M initial introduction', the _DRI_ general public
    > sales introduction of 1976.


    If you want earlier references to Digital Research, check my Web page
    on early Digital Research history for earlier Dr. Dobb's references to
    DRI and CP/M:

    http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs...dri.html#early

    ....which now includes the 1980 Kildall article. But I also reference:

    BYTE magazine, January 1976, p 128: "Digital Systems" small ad. This is
    John Torode's company, which was first to sell CP/M with their floppy
    controller card for Altairs, etc.

    Dr. Dobb's April 1976: "First Word on a floppy-disc operating system"
    Dr. Dobb's Nov/Dec 1976, p 51: "Upgraded CP/M floppy disc operating
    system now available"

    DDJ editor Jim Warren's descriptions of Torode's and Kildall's
    products. He says it was in use for A YEAR as of the April description.

    I don't disagree at this point with the notion that CP/M was not
    available to the "general public" until 1976. But it was in use by some
    companies and organizations in 1975. And the first version of it first
    ran in 1975, or possibly late in 1974 - Kildall does not give a date.
    My impression from the 1980 Kildall article is that Kildall wrote the
    operating system before he built the controller. But it's clear he
    wrote it before Torode debugged the controller and got it running,
    which Kildall from 1980 dates as after the fall of 1974.

    The story of early CP/M is a process of removing more and more hardware
    features from the BDOS and putting them in the BIOS. That's because of
    the evolution of floppy disk controllers which required BDOS
    changes.Later there was the need to support multiple disk formats as
    new controllers were designed while old formats had to be supported. My
    page traces some of that development, based in part on discussions in
    the last few years here in comp.os.cpm.

    Herb Johnson

    Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
    web site
    domain
    mirror

    my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
    if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
    "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
    S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"


  5. request for cp/m grep.c

    French Luser wrote:
    [snip]
    >
    > Hope it helps.
    > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like
    > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files)
    > would be very useful. Does someone know of such a tool? For
    > CP/M? For MS-DOS? Source code available? Else, it will be
    > "yet another programming project"...)
    >
    >
    > Yours Sincerely,
    > Emmanuel Roche


    Greetings

    I recall that there was a c-code listing in the SmallC for the PC
    book for grep.

    i dont know if there is an earlier search tool tho.


  6. Re: PLM80 ISIS compiler questions.



    thank you very very much for the history

    most enjoyable..

    dont stop


  7. Re: request for cp/m grep.c


    idknow#gmail,com ha scritto:

    > French Luser wrote:
    > [snip]
    > >
    > > Hope it helps.
    > > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like
    > > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files)
    > > would be very useful. Does someone know of such a tool? For
    > > CP/M? For MS-DOS? Source code available? Else, it will be
    > > "yet another programming project"...)
    > >
    > >
    > > Yours Sincerely,
    > > Emmanuel Roche

    >
    > Greetings
    >
    > I recall that there was a c-code listing in the SmallC for the PC
    > book for grep.
    >
    > i dont know if there is an earlier search tool tho.


    I found on the YAZE emulator a complete set of tools "unix-like", and
    put them online here for simplicity:
    http://www.e-tech.net/~pbetti/misc/unixlike/
    This tools works for sure on CP/M 3.0.
    Hope this helps.

    Piergiorgio


  8. Re: request for cp/m grep.c

    In article <1168932498.831350.285700@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups. com>
    idknow@gmail.com "idknow#gmail,com" writes:

    > French Luser wrote:
    > [snip]
    > >
    > > Hope it helps.
    > > (Now that I have several thousands pages of doc, a tool like
    > > GREP (to find strings like "LLL" among all those WS4 files)
    > > would be very useful. Does someone know of such a tool? For
    > > CP/M? For MS-DOS? Source code available? Else, it will be
    > > "yet another programming project"...)
    > >
    > >
    > > Yours Sincerely,
    > > Emmanuel Roche

    >
    > Greetings
    >
    > I recall that there was a c-code listing in the SmallC for the PC
    > book for grep.
    >
    > i dont know if there is an earlier search tool tho.


    Not for CP/M, but if you have DOS 2+ available you can grab a
    simple but powerful grep from



    Source included for the brave of heart...

    Pete
    --
    "We have not inherited the earth from our ancestors,
    we have borrowed it from our descendants."

  9. Re: request for cp/m grep.c

    Hello, Pete!

    >Not for CP/M, but if you have DOS 2+ available you can grab a
    >simple but powerful grep from
    >
    >
    >
    >Source included for the brave of heart...


    Thanks for the infor: I am amazed that nobody seems to have done
    a GREP for WordStar under CP/M (or MS-DOS).

    Yours Sincerely,
    Emmanuel Roche


  10. Re: request for cp/m grep.c

    French Luser wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > Thanks for the infor: I am amazed that nobody seems to have done
    > a GREP for WordStar under CP/M (or MS-DOS).


    You didn't pay attention. I told you where to find it for MSDOS.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



  11. Re: request for cp/m grep.c

    French Luser wrote:
    : Thanks for the infor: I am amazed that nobody seems to have done
    : a GREP for WordStar under CP/M (or MS-DOS).

    There's ZGREP, though I don't think it comes with source:



    --
    John Elliott

  12. Re: request for cp/m grep.c

    CBFalconer wrote:

    >You didn't pay attention. I told you where to find it for MSDOS.


    Are you sure, Chuck?

    All I found was a 32-bit compiler. Since my time is limited,
    I did not explore deeper. If it is a "standard" GREP (only
    able to understand ASCII text), then it would be, of course,
    of no use.

    What I am searching is a GREP that would be able to search
    strings inside WS4 files.

    (If you have one, let me know.)

    Yours Sincerely,
    Emmanuel Roche


  13. Re: request for cp/m grep.c



    French Luser wrote:

    > CBFalconer wrote:
    >
    >
    >>You didn't pay attention. I told you where to find it for MSDOS.

    >
    >
    > Are you sure, Chuck?
    >
    > All I found was a 32-bit compiler. Since my time is limited,
    > I did not explore deeper. If it is a "standard" GREP (only
    > able to understand ASCII text), then it would be, of course,
    > of no use.
    >
    > What I am searching is a GREP that would be able to search
    > strings inside WS4 files.
    >
    > (If you have one, let me know.)
    >
    > Yours Sincerely,
    > Emmanuel Roche
    >


    I think what you need to do is pipe the WS4 file through a BIT7OFF
    filter before sending it to GREP.

    Jeff

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