COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine - CP/M

This is a discussion on COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine - CP/M ; wrote in message news:dgqvo3df1g7njesg2t9bdq47rvqvi0oe7h@4ax.com... > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:06:35 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt > wrote: > >>MikeS wrote: >> >>(snip) >> >>> So, you're saying that if I tell the CP/M CCP to "run" a program >>> written in ...

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Thread: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

  1. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine


    wrote in message
    news:dgqvo3df1g7njesg2t9bdq47rvqvi0oe7h@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:06:35 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt
    > wrote:
    >
    >>MikeS wrote:
    >>
    >>(snip)
    >>
    >>> So, you're saying that if I tell the CP/M CCP to "run" a program
    >>> written in Z-80 assembly language by typing its name, it would *not*
    >>> run it quite well (assuming, of course, that it was runnable)?

    >>
    >>> I was indeed under the impression that one could in fact run Z-80
    >>> code
    >>> on a CP/M (as opposed to, say, CP/M86) system, since it would most
    >>> likely also be using a Z-80; apparently I was mistaken and my
    >>> recollections of having done so many times in the past 30 years or
    >>> so
    >>> are faulty.

    >>
    >>My understanding is that CP/M uses only 8080 instructions, and so can
    >>run on an 8080. If one is distributing programs for all CP/M users,
    >>they should not use Z80 only instructions. Most likely using a
    >>Z80 means that there is still a possibility that it isn't.

    >
    >
    > For example me. I know other ruunning PT Sol (8080) and I have an
    > Netronics Exporer 8085 (8085 is basically 8080) so there are two
    > non Z80 systems. I also have a few system I made for myself
    > just to use some of the 8085s I have laying about and they run CP/M.
    >
    > So CP/M usually means 8080 or any compatable 8080 cpu it does
    > not mean universally Z80 though probability is high.
    >
    > Allison
    >
    >>-- glen

    >


    In addition, some CP/M machines with Z80 CPUs could not run
    all Z80 user programs. That happened when the CBIOS author
    assumed that, since CP/M was designed for the 8080, any and
    all extra Z80 features should be exclusively available for
    the CBIOS. The CONKEY CBIOS went through some revisions to
    add preservation of the index registers across CBIOS calls
    and interrupt servicing.



  2. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    On Jan 18, 12:31*am, "Fred J. Scipione"
    wrote:
    > wrote in message
    >
    > news:dgqvo3df1g7njesg2t9bdq47rvqvi0oe7h@4ax.com...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:06:35 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt
    > > wrote:

    >
    > >>MikeS wrote:

    >
    > >>(snip)

    >
    > >>> So, you're saying that if I tell the CP/M CCP to "run" a program
    > >>> written in Z-80 assembly language by typing its name, it would *not*
    > >>> run it quite well (assuming, of course, that it was runnable)?

    >
    > >>> I was indeed under the impression that one could in fact run Z-80
    > >>> code
    > >>> on a CP/M (as opposed to, say, CP/M86) system, since it would most
    > >>> likely also be using a Z-80; apparently I was mistaken and my
    > >>> recollections of having done so many times in the past 30 years or
    > >>> so
    > >>> are faulty.

    >
    > >>My understanding is that CP/M uses only 8080 instructions, and so can
    > >>run on an 8080. *If one is distributing programs for all CP/M users,
    > >>they should not use Z80 only instructions. *Most likely using a
    > >>Z80 means that there is still a possibility that it isn't.

    >
    > > For example me. *I know other ruunning PT Sol (8080) and I have an
    > > Netronics Exporer 8085 (8085 is basically 8080) so there are two
    > > non Z80 systems. *I also have a few system I made for myself
    > > just to use some of the *8085s I have laying about and they run CP/M.

    >
    > > So CP/M usually means 8080 or any compatable 8080 cpu it does
    > > not mean universally Z80 though probability is high.

    >
    > > Allison

    >
    > >>-- glen

    >
    > In addition, some CP/M machines with Z80 CPUs could not run
    > all Z80 user programs. *That happened when the CBIOS author
    > assumed that, since CP/M was designed for the 8080, any and
    > all extra Z80 features should be exclusively available for
    > the CBIOS. *The CONKEY CBIOS went through some revisions to
    > add preservation of the index registers across CBIOS calls
    > and interrupt servicing.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    ------
    Now _that_ I didn't know; I took it as a given that trying to run Z80
    code implied having a Z80 (or emulator) to run it on, but I did think
    that whether CP/M itself was meant to run on an 8080 or a Z80 didn't
    matter.

    Nevertheless, considering that most CP/M systems are probably running
    Z80 code (and, conversely, that, at least in our community, most Z80
    code is probably running under CP/M), to say that the statement "CP/M
    runs Z80 code quite well" is "wrong" is just being provocative.

    And by the same token his statement that a Z80 will run Z80 code
    regardless of the OS is equally wrong if not more so, unless that code
    contains no OS calls whatsoever.

    UNCLE!

    mike

  3. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    Found this on the Internet, but I don't speak German...

    If I have well understood, this is a German school which was using
    COMAL 2.2 on PCs.

    Could someone ask them (in German: I wrote them a message in English,
    but they don't seem to understand) a copy of this rarity?

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr Emmanuel Roche


    Schulrechenzentrum ** (SURZ) Fritz-Steinhoff-Gesamtschule Hagen
    COMAL 2.2

    Die Datei COMAL.ZIP enthält die Dateien, die zum Arbeiten mit COMAL
    notwendig sind, in einer gepackten Datei.

    Diese Version ist eine Schulversion der Fritz-Steinhoff-Schule. Jeder
    Schüler darf diese Version für seine Ausbildungszwecke benutzen. Es
    ist nicht erlaubt, diese Version weiterzugeben oder sogar gewerblich
    zu benutzen.
    Diese Datei Comal.Zip ist über unseren Web-Server erhältlich.

    Schüler und Schülerinnen der FSG erhalten bei ihren Informatiklehrern
    ein Passwort, mit dem auf diesem Server der Zugang zu Comal
    freigeschaltet werden kann.
    Dort liegen die gepackte Version von Comal und eine Text-Datei
    (comal.txt), die erklärt, wie das Programm auf dem eigenen PC
    installiert werden kann.

    Wie installiere ich das System:
    Man hole vom Server der FSG die Datei COMAL.ZIP und die
    Beschreibungsdatei COMAL.TXT auf eine Diskette. Ebenso hole man vom
    Server aus dem PUB-Bereich das Programm PKUNZIP.EXE, falls man es noch
    nicht hat bzw. nicht über die entsprechenden Windows- Programme WINZIP
    o.ä. verfügt.

    Mit dem PKUNZIP.EXE-Programm werden die Dateien entpackt. Dazu gehe
    man auf dem Zielcomputer auf die DOS-Ebene:

    auf den Windoof-Maschinen in ein Dos-Fenster wechseln (Start/Programme/
    MSDOS ´klicken´) oder fahre bei den Win9x/ME-Maschinen Windows
    herunter mit:
    Nach MSDOS gehen.

    auf den Linux-Kisten in einer Konsole den Dos-Emulator DOS aufrufen
    oder
    in X-Window (z.B. in KDE) in einer Terminalemulation XDOS aufrufen.

    Man erzeuge auf dem 'heimischen' Computer ein Verzeichnis, in dem die
    COMAL-Dateien gespeichert werden sollen, z.B. \SPRACHEN\COMAL

    (für DOS-unkundige: Führe folgende Befehle aus:

    c:
    cd \
    md sprachen
    cd sprachen
    md comal
    cd comal)


    Befinden sich die Dateien COMAL.ZIP und PKUNZIP.EXE auf der Diskette
    im aktuellen Verzeichnis
    (Testen mit DIR a:, dann müssen diese beiden Dateien aufgelistet
    werden, ansonsten mit a: auf das Laufwerk wechseln und gegebenenfalls
    mit CD \comal in das entsprechende Verzeichnis wechseln, anschliessend
    mit c: wieder auf die Festplatte gehen.),
    werden die Dateien mit

    A:PKUNZIP A:COMAL (Grossschreibung muss nicht sein!)

    auf die Festplatte kopiert. (Überprüfe mit DIR c: )

    Wie führe ich dieses Programm aus:

    * Man 'gehe' auf dem Rechner auf die DOS-Ebene. (siehe oben)
    * Man wechsle in das Comal-Verzeichnis z.B. mit

    c:
    cd \sprachen\comal

    * Dann starte man das Programm mit COMAL.

    Bei Fragen frage man ganz ungeniert psa!

    Schulrechenzentrum (SURZ)
    Fritz-Steinhoff-Gesamtschule
    Am Bügel 20
    58099 Hagen
    Tel: 02331/963411 Fax: 02331/65073
    E-Mail: psa@fsg-hagen.de

    Stand: 26.1.2002/psa

    EOF

  4. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    Searching again, I found a "comal" directory at this German Web
    site...

    but it contains only the instructions already found! Aaarrrggghhh!!!

    http://www.fsg.hagen.de/download/inf/comal/

    So, we really need a German-speaking CP/M fan.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr Emmanuel Roche


  5. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    Several years ago, I got an answer in German from a:

    Arno.Pasternak@Hagen.de

    Maybe he is still around? He seemed to know that "hagen" was using
    COMAL.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Mr Emmanuel Roche


  6. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    Hello.

    roche182@laposte.net wrote in message
    <7dd9eca9-a5b7-4a49-89a5-de6d8cf0eae9@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>...
    >Searching again, I found a "comal" directory at this German Web
    >site...
    >
    >but it contains only the instructions already found! Aaarrrggghhh!!!
    >
    >http://www.fsg.hagen.de/download/inf/comal/
    >
    >So, we really need a German-speaking CP/M fan.
    >
    >Yours Sincerely,
    >Mr Emmanuel Roche
    >


    You need a password for downloading COMAL. Besides that, it is only meant for
    the students, who are not allowed to pass the comal package to others.

    Greetz, Katzy.



  7. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    *roche182* wrote on Fri, 08-01-18 11:03:
    >Found this on the Internet, but I don't speak German...


    No you didn't, I sent it to you.

    >Could someone ask them (in German: I wrote them a message in English,
    >but they don't seem to understand) a copy of this rarity?


    When I spoke (emailed) to the man in charge, he seemed very helpful. I
    don't know what you did to offend him, but it seems to be a knack
    you've honed to perfection.

    --
    Tschö wa
    Axel


  8. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    On Jan 18, 5:11*am, roche...@laposte.net wrote:
    > Searching again, I found a "comal" directory at this German Web
    > site...
    >
    > but it contains only the instructions already found! Aaarrrggghhh!!!
    >
    > http://www.fsg.hagen.de/download/inf/comal/
    >
    > So, we really need a German-speaking CP/M fan.
    >
    > Yours Sincerely,
    > Mr Emmanuel Roche


    -----------
    Well, I'm a German-speaking CP/M fan, but after your condescending
    lecture about this being a CP/M newsgroup I don't dare talk about an
    MS-DOS program...

    You need a password.

    m

  9. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:13:13 UTC, roche182@laposte.net wrote:

    > Several years ago, I got an answer in German from a:
    >
    > Arno.Pasternak@Hagen.de
    >
    > Maybe he is still around? He seemed to know that "hagen" was using
    > COMAL.
    >
    > Yours Sincerely,
    > Mr Emmanuel Roche
    >


    I only found

    http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/publi.../cpm/comal/inf
    o.html

    but I think it's a demo version

    --
    Greetings

    Fritz Chwolka


  10. Re: COMAL Article from "FOGHorn" Magazine

    Hello Fritz,

    "Fritz Chwolka" schrieb:

    >I only found
    >
    >http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/publi.../cpm/comal/inf
    >o.html
    >
    >but I think it's a demo version


    Emmanuel looks for MS-DOS a Version of COMAL.

    The CP/M-80 Version COMAL look by Peter Schorn Homepage.

    Rolf


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