Bill H wrote:
> This has been discussed in another thread, specifically French Lusers
> desire for a place to store cp/m files he is reworking.
>
> I own a web design / hosting company (www.spinningwebz.com) with my own
> Sun servers. I have registered the name, www.cpmarchive.com and can
> setup up space on one of my servers for file storage (at least 1gb, if
> more is needed I can add it). The question is, does anyone want to
> setup the website and handle putting files online etc? I am already
> doing this on my own for the Timex Sinclair 1000 (www.ts1000us).
>
> Now I know there are a number of cpm sites out there, but it would not
> hurt to have another, a central repository of files, docs etc with
> links to other sites etc.
>
> If you are interested, post a message here or you can contact me
> through www.ts1000.us or www.spinningwebz.com
>
> Bill H www.ts1000.us

Is there no interest in this or is it that any posts made via google
groups are automatically deleted by most of the readers of this new
group?

Bill H www.ts1000.us

On 2006-07-29, Bill H wrote:
>
> Bill H wrote:
>> The question is, does anyone want to
>> setup the website and handle putting files online etc? I am already
>> doing this on my own for the Timex Sinclair 1000 (www.ts1000us).
>
> Is there no interest in this or is it that any posts made via google
> groups are automatically deleted by most of the readers of this new
> group?

Speaking only for myself, I already have ways of getting things to the
web; don't need another.
--
roger ivie
rivie@ridgenet.net

"Bill H" wrote (among other things):

> (...) The question is, does anyone want to
> setup the website and handle putting files online etc? I am already
> doing this on my own for the Timex Sinclair 1000.

Hello, Bill!

I waited a few days, to see what would happen.

As you can see, there are many talkers on the comp.os.cpm
Newsgroup, but few doers...

As you may have understood, I simply don't have enough
time and/or money to spend more than now on the Internet.

That's a pity, because the Internet (now that CP/M journals
or magazines no longer exist) is the only way to keep
corresponding...

But corresponding to whom, and about what?

Despite having published more than 2 dozens of programs,
I rarely get any comments about them (maybe a handful,
or 25% to 20%).

Personally, I think that there are only a handful of people
doing any CP/M work/development in the world.

For some unknown reason, we have lots of old electronicians
talking about what they did 20 years ago, but they never do
anything, nowadays, while the last developments of CP/M
(Personal CP/M, CP/NET, and GSX) were made in 1983...

Yet, none of those electronicians has had the idea, so far,
to implement them all together in a simple do-it-yourself
Single-Board Computer...

Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply
not possible for me, actually.

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

French Luser wrote:
>
> Personally, I think that there are only a handful of people
> doing any CP/M work/development in the world.
>
> For some unknown reason, we have lots of old electronicians
> talking about what they did 20 years ago, but they never do
> anything, nowadays, while the last developments of CP/M
> (Personal CP/M, CP/NET, and GSX) were made in 1983...
That's not true. I am developing a Norton Commander like CP/M clone in
Turbo Pascal 3.0 since two month, but I can't publish yet a
distributable code. For ongoing progress, see
http://www.z80.eu/cpmcmdr.html (currently, just a few infos about it).

Regards
Peter

(remove the "REMOVE-NOSPAM." in the email address for personal mailings)

Bill H wrote:

>> If you are interested, post a message here or you can contact me
>> through www.ts1000.us or www.spinningwebz.com
>>
>> Bill H www.ts1000.us
>
> Is there no interest in this or is it that any posts made via google
> groups are automatically deleted by most of the readers of this new
> group?

If there is no other interested, I can take care of this, provided that no
one will be worried about an extremely simplified design of the pages.I
just need a kick way to send files, scp the better.

--
Salu2

*French Luser* wrote on Mon, 06-07-31 10:33:
>Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply not
>possible for me, actually.

For some odd and inexplicable reason nobody here seems to be able to
understand you. The most obvious explanation suggesting itself to my
fallible self is, that you're plainly wrong.

It has often been pointed out to you, how getting some webspace is
actually simpler, cheaper, and easier than what you do now. As to
making that space into a site, that's only complicated if you want it
to be. As a proof look into:

http://home.arcor.de/iona.berger/Radio/

Things don't ever get any more basic than that. (N.B: Those are radio
programs with my daughter moderating. I've edited out the terrible
noise between the speaking bits.)

"Bill H" wrote in message
news:1153847968.222714.272900@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> This has been discussed in another thread, specifically French Lusers
> desire for a place to store cp/m files he is reworking.
>
> I own a web design / hosting company (www.spinningwebz.com) with my own
> Sun servers. I have registered the name, www.cpmarchive.com and can
> setup up space on one of my servers for file storage (at least 1gb, if
> more is needed I can add it). The question is, does anyone want to
> setup the website and handle putting files online etc? I am already
> doing this on my own for the Timex Sinclair 1000 (www.ts1000us).
>
> Now I know there are a number of cpm sites out there, but it would not
> hurt to have another, a central repository of files, docs etc with
> links to other sites etc.
>
> If you are interested, post a message here or you can contact me
> through www.ts1000.us or www.spinningwebz.com
>
> Bill H www.ts1000.us
>

I like to dabble with CP/M but it's kind of seasonal. A few months ago I
was rabidly trying to learn Z-80 Assembler programming in the CP/M
environment; every now and then the bug creeps back and I find myself
experimenting with assembler instructions.

I say you can't have enough CP/M sites on the Internet. I'm definitely
interested!

Nate

"French Luser" wrote:

> Personally, I think that there are only a handful of people
> doing any CP/M work/development in the world.

"A handful" = 5.

Now, everybody says that there are 6 billions people on Earth.

So, let us round "a handful" to 6.

That means that, for every billion people, there is a man doing some CP/M
work...

I wonder what is the definition of "an endangered specy"?

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

Axel Berger wrote:
> *French Luser* wrote on Mon, 06-07-31 10:33:
> >Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply not
> >possible for me, actually.
>
> For some odd and inexplicable reason nobody here seems to be able to
> understand you. The most obvious explanation suggesting itself to my
> fallible self is, that you're plainly wrong.
>
> It has often been pointed out to you, how getting some webspace is
> actually simpler, cheaper, and easier than what you do now.....

It's easy to take shots at "French Luser" just because his choices seem
odd to some others. I always have to chuckle when I see such comments,
because there are so many MORE people who consider an interest in CP/M
as already odd enough! In Ohio we call such remarks "the pot calling
the kettle black" - from the days when pots and kettles were heated by
fires which put soot on everything near them.

The "ease" of establishing a Web site is not an issue, Axel; it's
KEEPING IT UP, maintenance and so forth. Getting back to the thread
subject of archives, I have an apparent case in point.

I believe in 2004 or so, Randy McLaughlin established
"s100_manuals.com" as a Web site to post S-100 and related manuals. He
was very active about this and discussed this with me and others, as
any search of comp.os.cpm archives can show.

Why mention this? That same search shows that Randy's last posts were
in July 2005. I've been asked about him, and I've asked only a few
others - no word on his status. If anyone knows his status I'd like to
know, as a correspondent and colleague of his for many years. For this
thread, the point is that while someone or something renewed his Web
domain for another two years, that site has not been updated or replied
to emails for about a year, and so is at least dormant after just a few
year's operation.

French Luser's point, if you don't understand it Axel, is that he
believes any Web site is fallable and will eventually go away, unless
it has some strong institutional support. By reference he's probably
thinking about the old State of Washington University archive called
"Oakland" which WAS a fixture on the Web (and as a CD-ROM based
distribution before the Web) until it was considered too expensive to
maintain and removed.

It is not Herb Johnson's job or mission to be French Luser's apologist.
But I don't see a lot of value in CP/M enthusiasts and supporters to be
shooting at each other, when from year to year we see some of them go
away from death or disinterest. The all-but-certain loss of "dot
amethyst" is a small loss but, again, it's another nibble at our CP/M
resources. That's why I chose to make a case for its continued use. I
found the subsequent discussion informative.

To close my comments on a new archive: anyone who starts one should
consider it to be a several-year commitment. That commitment includes
active gathering of material, correspondence with people whose
interests range from "why don't you have what I want NOW?" to those
with a long and informed CP/M history; and the usual headaches of
finding and keeping a good stable and reliable hosting service. Those
interested should correspond with other CP/M and related site
maintainers for tips and suggestions; you'll correspond with them
anyway after you start up such a site. But don't expect to form some
kind of "consortium" or common agreement; the phrase "herding cats"
comes to mind. Just do the bits you consider important. Look forward to
emails from people telling you what you "should" or "can't" do, or what
is "reasonable".

Herb Johnson

Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
web site
domain mirror
my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

Herb Johnson wrote:
> Axel Berger wrote:
> > *French Luser* wrote on Mon, 06-07-31 10:33:
> > >Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply not
> > >possible for me, actually.
> >
> > For some odd and inexplicable reason nobody here seems to be able to
> > understand you. The most obvious explanation suggesting itself to my
> > fallible self is, that you're plainly wrong.
> >
> > It has often been pointed out to you, how getting some webspace is
> > actually simpler, cheaper, and easier than what you do now.....
>
> It's easy to take shots at "French Luser" just because his choices seem
> odd to some others. I always have to chuckle when I see such comments,
> because there are so many MORE people who consider an interest in CP/M
> as already odd enough! In Ohio we call such remarks "the pot calling
> the kettle black" - from the days when pots and kettles were heated by
> fires which put soot on everything near them.
>
> The "ease" of establishing a Web site is not an issue, Axel; it's
> KEEPING IT UP, maintenance and so forth. Getting back to the thread
> subject of archives, I have an apparent case in point.
>
> I believe in 2004 or so, Randy McLaughlin established
> "s100_manuals.com" as a Web site to post S-100 and related manuals. He
> was very active about this and discussed this with me and others, as
> any search of comp.os.cpm archives can show.
>
> Why mention this? That same search shows that Randy's last posts were
> in July 2005. I've been asked about him, and I've asked only a few
> others - no word on his status. If anyone knows his status I'd like to
> know, as a correspondent and colleague of his for many years. For this
> thread, the point is that while someone or something renewed his Web
> domain for another two years, that site has not been updated or replied
> to emails for about a year, and so is at least dormant after just a few
> year's operation.
>
> French Luser's point, if you don't understand it Axel, is that he
> believes any Web site is fallable and will eventually go away, unless
> it has some strong institutional support. By reference he's probably
> thinking about the old State of Washington University archive called
> "Oakland" which WAS a fixture on the Web (and as a CD-ROM based
> distribution before the Web) until it was considered too expensive to
> maintain and removed.
>
> It is not Herb Johnson's job or mission to be French Luser's apologist.
> But I don't see a lot of value in CP/M enthusiasts and supporters to be
> shooting at each other, when from year to year we see some of them go
> away from death or disinterest. The all-but-certain loss of "dot
> amethyst" is a small loss but, again, it's another nibble at our CP/M
> resources. That's why I chose to make a case for its continued use. I
> found the subsequent discussion informative.
>
> To close my comments on a new archive: anyone who starts one should
> consider it to be a several-year commitment. That commitment includes
> active gathering of material, correspondence with people whose
> interests range from "why don't you have what I want NOW?" to those
> with a long and informed CP/M history; and the usual headaches of
> finding and keeping a good stable and reliable hosting service. Those
> interested should correspond with other CP/M and related site
> maintainers for tips and suggestions; you'll correspond with them
> anyway after you start up such a site. But don't expect to form some
> kind of "consortium" or common agreement; the phrase "herding cats"
> comes to mind. Just do the bits you consider important. Look forward to
> emails from people telling you what you "should" or "can't" do, or what
> is "reasonable".
>
> Herb Johnson
>
> Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
> web site
> domain mirror
> my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
> if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
> "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
> S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

Your points make a lot of sense Herb, thats why I offered the site /
space. I ran into the same problem with my other site, www.ts1000.us, a
site dedicated to the Timex Sinclair 1000, it takes a lot to maintain &
update it.

But there may be a solution, what if a "wiki" styled site was setup for
CP/M allowing user contribnuted information and files? This would move
the maintenance / updating away from the webmaster and put it on the
users.

Bill H www.ts1000.us

Bill H wrote:

> Your points make a lot of sense Herb, thats why I offered the site /
> space. I ran into the same problem with my other site, www.ts1000.us, a
> site dedicated to the Timex Sinclair 1000, it takes a lot to maintain &
> update it.
>
> But there may be a solution, what if a "wiki" styled site was setup for
> CP/M allowing user contribnuted information and files? This would move
> the maintenance / updating away from the webmaster and put it on the
> users.
>
> Bill H www.ts1000.us

Thanks for the compliments and the quick response.

My own S-100 and Web site experience, dated as it is, suggests to me
that to build and maintain a site of interest and value, one has to
ACTIVELY grab content and discussion and edit and refine it. I'm always
pulling correspondence and posts into my site and soliciting further
comments, primarily from comp.os.cpm posts. I'm not actively "trawling"
around the Web for content, nor have I cleanly organized my CP/M and
DRI content which has accumulated over the years. I may do so, for
reasons I'll mention shortly.

But my knowledge of the modern Web and modern Web tools is minimal.
Someone with modern experience may make a site of interest and value.
However I find it hard to believe that such a site would emerge from
Wiki-like posts - although I'd welcome directions to sites where such a
thing is happening, for an area of interest with very modest activity
like CP/M. With "dot Amethyst", I tried to make the case that CP/M is a
RETROSPECTIVE and ARCHIVAL activity, not a development activity where
discussion naturally occurs.

I just looked at Wikipedia and its entry for CP/M, just to get a clue
from the premire wiki. It has the general information correct, but has
minor errors (such as calling CP/M "open source") and omissions (does
not reference the "unofficial" CP/M archive). It has odd emphases, such
as what the letters C-P-M referred to over time. My own site has DRI
info and history not available from Wikipedia. Maybe I'll add to it
when time permits.

Herb JOhnson

Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
web site
domain mirror
my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

*French Luser* wrote on Thu, 06-08-03 10:56:
>That means that, for every billion people, there is a man doing some
>CP/M work...

In northern Germany there is at leasting one specialist teaching the
making and use of stone tools - I'm hoping to be joining one of his
courses some time.

But even he, as far as I know, is doing little "development work".

*Herb Johnson* wrote on Thu, 06-08-03 17:00:
>To close my comments on a new archive: anyone who starts one should
>consider it to be a several-year commitment. That commitment includes
>active gathering of material, correspondence with people whose interests
>range from "why don't you have what I want NOW?"

I don't quite agree. If and as long as you can't have what's best,
second or third best is to be aimed for. Posting to obscure usenet
groups without commitment to mainenance is no easier than just sticking
into a domain. But the latter makes is far easier for others to browse
and mirror what's there.
In the end ease and diversity may well be what counts.

> *Herb Johnson* wrote on Thu, 06-08-03 17:00:
> >To close my comments on a new archive: anyone who starts one should
> >consider it to be a several-year commitment. That commitment includes
> >active gathering of material, correspondence with people whose interests
> >range from "why don't you have what I want NOW?"

Axel Berger wrote:
> I don't quite agree. If and as long as you can't have what's best,
> second or third best is to be aimed for. Posting to obscure usenet
> groups without commitment to mainenance is no easier than just sticking
> into a domain. But the latter makes is far easier for others to browse
> and mirror what's there.
> In the end ease and diversity may well be what counts.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, but I hope this is an
informative debate.

More archives are better. As I said, "obscurity" is relative. Anyone
that wants to mirror "dot Amethyst" can do so. And I already mine
comp.os.cpm for threads of archival value to edit and post on my site,
adding value thereby (plus ability to update and link).

In fact, long ago, I was one of a number of NG members to DISCOURAGE
"Luser" from posting documents in comp.os.cpm, for some of the reasons
you've (Axel) have cited. Now that "dot Amethyst" is to be removed, I
withdraw those objections (for what that's worth) if he chooses to use
c.o.c. instead. I'll take content of that sort, anyway I can get it,
and I CAN speak to that subject.

But I'll betcha that Google archives of "dot amethyst" will be around
longer than archives of "s100manuals.com". No disrespect meant here; a
billion dollar company has more resources than an individual. Again, I
think availability trumps ease of access; an old-school concept of
course in the larger marketplace for content.

For instance, yesterday I was searching the Web for Digital Research
info from the mid-1970's. So I needed some old issues of Dr. Dobb's
Journal. I looked online (a bit ironic for me). I could not find them,
so I trudged into my basement and pulled my dusty,
hard-to-access-from-the-Web, highly perishable original magazines. And
if I need old BYTE magazines, I may have to trudge further to my local
college or township library.

Conversely, let's see how hard it is to find stuff in "dot amethyst".

A click on my Web browser and I'm at Google. Another click for "groups"
(Usenet et al). Enter in "digital research CP/M". I get "Results 1 - 10
of 8,650". and a list of the first ten. Most are comp.os.cpm entries;
number 10 is:

CP/M Plus Version 3 Operating System by Digital Research
comp.os.cpm.amethyst - Dec 3 2003, 7:13 am by Romolo Cappola

Interesting; it's not even a post by "french luser"! But there's your
"access". 'nuff said.

Herb Johnson

Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
web site
domain mirror
my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

French Luser wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>
> For some unknown reason, we have lots of old electronicians
> talking about what they did 20 years ago, but they never do
> anything, nowadays, while the last developments of CP/M
> (Personal CP/M, CP/NET, and GSX) were made in 1983...

My ddtz27 was last modified in May, 1988, and my LT31 was last
modified in Dec 1991. See my page in the sig. below.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@maineline.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
USE maineline address!

Bill,

I got about 100 to 200 MB of CP/M documents to be stored (those
formerly hosted by Randy McLaughlin at s100-manuals.com).
Could you please contact me for further details how to proceed (e-mail
is at the bottom)?

@all: Btw, concerning s100-manuals.com:
I'm still in need of the following files which used to be stored in
gaby.s100-manuals.com/DRI/ (list may be incomplete):

DRI C Programmer's guide for CP/M-86 Second Edition : 36.5M
(dric86.zip)
CP/M 2.0 User's Guide for CP/M 1.4 Users: 2.1M pdf
DDT - The CP/M Debugger: 1.5M pdf
Despool Print Utility: 1.4M pdf
ED - The CP/M Editor: 1.7M pdf
Introduction to CP/M Features and Facilities 1978: 2.8M pdf
SID - The CP/M Symbolic debugger: 2.6M pdf

If anybody has got one or more of these files, please drop me a line
(e-mail see below).

Thanks a bunch
Gaby

--
Mrs. Gaby Chaudry
http://www.gaby.de
mailto: gaby@gaby.de

French Luser wrote:

>Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply
>not possible for me, actually.

You have been offered a free website multiple times by multiple
newsgroup participants. Multiple newsgroup participants have
offered to put your files on the web for you, and have offered to
pay all postage and media costs if you are unable/unwilling to
email or FTP the files. Your refusal to share those files with
the world is a personal problem, not a technical one. You have
every right to horde them if you choose, but please don't pretend
that you are willing to publish them when you obviously are not.

Axel Berger wrote:
>
>*French Luser* wrote on Mon, 06-07-31 10:33:
>
>>Of course, I would like to have a Web site, but it is simply not
>>possible for me, actually.
>
>For some odd and inexplicable reason nobody here seems to be able to
>understand you. The most obvious explanation suggesting itself to my
>fallible self is, that you're plainly wrong.
>
>It has often been pointed out to you, how getting some webspace is
>actually simpler, cheaper, and easier than what you do now. As to
>making that space into a site, that's only complicated if you want it
>to be. As a proof look into:
>
> http://home.arcor.de/iona.berger/Radio/
>
>Things don't ever get any more basic than that. (N.B: Those are radio
>programs with my daughter moderating. I've edited out the terrible
>noise between the speaking bits.)

There are a dozen people here who will do all the work for him if
he will merely make copies (in any format, including 8" / 5.25" /
3.5" floppy, CD_R, DVD-R, flash card, USB thumb drive) and mail it
(several people have offered to pick up the tab for media/shipping).
He could post the files in an appropriate binary group, use any of
the many file sharing networks, etc etc. The problem isn't that
he can't share his files. The problem is that he won't.

Herb Johnson wrote:

>It's easy to take shots at "French Luser" just because his choices seem
>odd to some others. I always have to chuckle when I see such comments,
>because there are so many MORE people who consider an interest in CP/M
>as already odd enough! In Ohio we call such remarks "the pot calling
>the kettle black" - from the days when pots and kettles were heated by
>fires which put soot on everything near them.
>
>The "ease" of establishing a Web site is not an issue, Axel; it's
>KEEPING IT UP, maintenance and so forth.

Bull****. All anyone has to do is to put up an archive anywhere on
the net and post here asking people to duplicate it on their sites
and save it on their hard disks. Do that and it will be available
on dozens of sites a hundred years from now.

>French Luser's point, if you don't understand it Axel, is that he
>believes any Web site is fallable and will eventually go away, unless
>it has some strong institutional support. By reference he's probably
>thinking about the old State of Washington University archive called
>"Oakland" which WAS a fixture on the Web (and as a CD-ROM based
>distribution before the Web) until it was considered too expensive to
>maintain and removed.

....and was mirrored in many, many places and is available still:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=+m...ak+oakland+edu


>To close my comments on a new archive: anyone who starts one should
>consider it to be a several-year commitment. That commitment includes
>active gathering of material, correspondence with people whose
>interests range from "why don't you have what I want NOW?" to those
>with a long and informed CP/M history; and the usual headaches of
>finding and keeping a good stable and reliable hosting service.

No need. Just make the raw data it available for FTP download anywhere
on the net and invite people to to duplicate it on their sites and save
it on their hard disks. That way it will always be available, and if
someone chooses to organize it they will have the raw material to do so.