[OT] another computer kit project - CP/M

This is a discussion on [OT] another computer kit project - CP/M ; It doesn't run CP/M, but I'm sure it'll interest some of you. Over on the cctalk ( http://www.classiccmp.org/lists.html ) list, the guy who made the SBC6120 single board PDP8 clone is taking names for a new run of boards. The ...

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  1. [OT] another computer kit project

    It doesn't run CP/M, but I'm sure it'll interest some of you. Over on
    the cctalk (http://www.classiccmp.org/lists.html) list, the guy who made
    the SBC6120 single board PDP8 clone is taking names for a new run of
    boards. The more people who express interest, the better the chances of
    him going forward with a new run. Hopefully he can be talked into doing
    a new run of front panel kits too.

    Read about this SBC at
    http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm


    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  2. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:08:17 GMT, dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave
    Griffith) wrote:

    >It doesn't run CP/M, but I'm sure it'll interest some of you. Over on
    >the cctalk (http://www.classiccmp.org/lists.html) list, the guy who made
    >the SBC6120 single board PDP8 clone is taking names for a new run of
    >boards. The more people who express interest, the better the chances of
    >him going forward with a new run. Hopefully he can be talked into doing
    >a new run of front panel kits too.
    >
    >Read about this SBC at
    >http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm


    Correction. The board has been in continous production for several
    years and the call was a "last call" as parts were getting scarce.
    Same is true for the pannel.

    Bottom line is when sales are only a few a year or diminishing there
    is a question should one buy ans stock the parts to continue or is it
    time to declare it end of life?

    I am not associated with this board or the production of it. Only
    that I've been aware of STG for some 10 years or more with various
    projects and products Bob has sold had going back to a solid state
    replacement for a TU58 DECtape.

    Allison

  3. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    In article ,
    nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote:

    > On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:08:17 GMT, dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave
    > Griffith) wrote:
    >
    > >It doesn't run CP/M, but I'm sure it'll interest some of you. Over on
    > >the cctalk (http://www.classiccmp.org/lists.html) list, the guy who made
    > >the SBC6120 single board PDP8 clone is taking names for a new run of
    > >boards. The more people who express interest, the better the chances of
    > >him going forward with a new run. Hopefully he can be talked into doing
    > >a new run of front panel kits too.
    > >
    > >Read about this SBC at
    > >http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm

    >
    > Correction. The board has been in continous production for several
    > years and the call was a "last call" as parts were getting scarce.
    > Same is true for the pannel.
    >
    > Bottom line is when sales are only a few a year or diminishing there
    > is a question should one buy ans stock the parts to continue or is it
    > time to declare it end of life?
    >
    > I am not associated with this board or the production of it. Only
    > that I've been aware of STG for some 10 years or more with various
    > projects and products Bob has sold had going back to a solid state
    > replacement for a TU58 DECtape.
    >
    > Allison


    Sort of suprised that CPU is still available. Does it have any uses
    other then something like this?

    At least a z80 is still used in a lot of embedded products. ( not a slam
    on the 6120, just curious about its current day 'market' )

  4. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    In article ,
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave Griffith) wrote:

    > It doesn't run CP/M, but I'm sure it'll interest some of you. Over on
    > the cctalk (http://www.classiccmp.org/lists.html) list, the guy who made
    > the SBC6120 single board PDP8 clone is taking names for a new run of
    > boards. The more people who express interest, the better the chances of
    > him going forward with a new run. Hopefully he can be talked into doing
    > a new run of front panel kits too.
    >
    > Read about this SBC at
    > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm


    Im hoping the *minimal* z80 board i want to do turns out to be simple
    enough that anyone can do it.. It may or may not run cpm out of the box
    since im going for really minimal hardware, but it wouldnt be hard with
    a 'extension module'.

    Had to switch attention to other things for a few weeks ( I have a sick
    car and i hate driving the 'spare' around in this weather ) but I've not
    lost interest the project, yet.

    I still need to find a SIO or 2, does anyone sell them anymore?

  5. Re: another computer kit project

    > I still need to find a SIO or 2, does anyone sell them anymore?

    I believe that BG Micro and JDR both have
    4MHz versions in unit quantities.

    Digikey has them in bulk, @ ~6$ X 130
    - ridiculous, but 6,8, and 10 Mhz avail.

    Mouser has unit quantities, ~7.50$,
    6,8, 10(?)MHZ avail.

    HTH,
    Tarkin


  6. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    ziggy wrote:

    > Im hoping the *minimal* z80 board i want to do turns out to be simple
    > enough that anyone can do it.. It may or may not run cpm out of the box
    > since im going for really minimal hardware, but it wouldnt be hard with
    > a 'extension module'.


    So, what's the objective for your Z80 board? What advantages does it
    have over the P112? This isn't intended to lord the P112 over yours.
    There are several things about the P112 that I'd like to redo if/when I
    have the time. Maybe this summer I'll see if I can do something for
    your Z80 project.

    I'd like to see something comparable to the P112 in versatility and
    power but adding the following:

    1) Two layer circuit board which permits easy board etching at home.

    2) All through-hole and easy to find parts.

    3) A stack-up style expansion connector that's easier to source. The
    socket called for on the mainboard is easy enough to find, but I have to
    special-order ones with longer tails from the manufacturer. Soldering
    is also a pain.

    4) Provisions for a front panel. Ideally this would combine what you
    get from an IMSAI 8080 and the Jade Bus Probe.


    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  7. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    In article ,
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave Griffith) wrote:

    > ziggy wrote:
    >
    > > Im hoping the *minimal* z80 board i want to do turns out to be simple
    > > enough that anyone can do it.. It may or may not run cpm out of the box
    > > since im going for really minimal hardware, but it wouldnt be hard with
    > > a 'extension module'.

    >
    > So, what's the objective for your Z80 board? What advantages does it
    > have over the P112? This isn't intended to lord the P112 over yours.
    > There are several things about the P112 that I'd like to redo if/when I
    > have the time. Maybe this summer I'll see if I can do something for
    > your Z80 project.
    >
    > I'd like to see something comparable to the P112 in versatility and
    > power but adding the following:
    >
    > 1) Two layer circuit board which permits easy board etching at home.
    >
    > 2) All through-hole and easy to find parts.
    >
    > 3) A stack-up style expansion connector that's easier to source. The
    > socket called for on the mainboard is easy enough to find, but I have to
    > special-order ones with longer tails from the manufacturer. Soldering
    > is also a pain.
    >
    > 4) Provisions for a front panel. Ideally this would combine what you
    > get from an IMSAI 8080 and the Jade Bus Probe.


    Im not trying to outdo the P112 at all. the P112 a modern, advanced and
    perhaps the 'best' choice for a modern-day plug and play CPM machine.

    The "advantages" to what im proposing is that it will be a really simple
    and traditional base, with options for expansion for 'extras', like
    disk, video, extra I/O ports, A/D etc.. ( even a front panel interface
    like you want ). Trying to keep the base board to CPU/RAM/ROM and 1
    serial, 1 parallel.. The bare minimum.

    It has to be an easy to etch 2 sided board and easy assemble at home, no
    SMT chips or esoteric components.. A true hobbiest 'roll your own'
    thing. Was thinking similar to the PC104 type of stackable boards, or
    can use ribbon cable between them..

    CPM will even end up being a option that will have to be dealt with
    afterwards.. ( and will require some of the optional add-on boards )

  8. Re: another computer kit project

    > I still need to find a SIO or 2, does anyone sell them anymore?

    Hey, ziggy, have I got a deal for you.
    I have:
    2 x 44-pin PLCC Zilog SCC's, pn Z85C3008SVC
    1 x " " " DMA, pn Z84C1008VEC

    As they are PLCC, I have little or no use for them.
    You get dibs; if you're not interested, somebody else may
    want them.

    I will accept in trade the following:

    1 POKEY chip suitable for use in a stock Atari 800
    1 8255/82C55A or equivalent
    1 FDC, WD1791 or better/equivalent.

    Or best offers. I will be out of town and unable
    to ship for a week, but will check my email and
    respond to those interested.

    TTFN,
    Tarkin


  9. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    Dave Griffith wrote:
    [snip]

    >
    > I'd like to see something comparable to the P112 in versatility and
    > power but adding the following:
    >
    > 1) Two layer circuit board which permits easy board etching at home.
    >
    > 2) All through-hole and easy to find parts.
    >
    > 3) A stack-up style expansion connector that's easier to source. The
    > socket called for on the mainboard is easy enough to find, but I have to
    > special-order ones with longer tails from the manufacturer. Soldering
    > is also a pain.
    >
    > 4) Provisions for a front panel. Ideally this would combine what you
    > get from an IMSAI 8080 and the Jade Bus Probe.
    >

    FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    years ago:
    1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.
    2. I wanted current-production (1995) chips: that ruled out most of the
    40-DIP diskette controllers, even had there been room.
    3. Having burned my fingers with ground noise once before, I took no
    chances, & opted for a 4-layer board. Never had any noise problems with
    those. That's not to say it can't be done 2-layer, of course; just I
    wanted to be sure it would go first time.
    4. Back in 1995, that stack-up connector was readily available here in
    Australia. Times change, of course.

  10. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    David R Brooks wrote:
    > FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    > years ago:
    > 1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    > thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    > Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.


    This wishlist of mine would probably mean abandoning the 3" drive form
    factor.

    > 2. I wanted current-production (1995) chips: that ruled out most of the
    > 40-DIP diskette controllers, even had there been room.


    I hear that there are some reimplementations of the old 40-DIP
    controllers done in GAL, PEEL or something else like that.

    > 3. Having burned my fingers with ground noise once before, I took no
    > chances, & opted for a 4-layer board. Never had any noise problems with
    > those. That's not to say it can't be done 2-layer, of course; just I
    > wanted to be sure it would go first time.


    That's another gremlin that would force me to abandon the 3" format.

    > 4. Back in 1995, that stack-up connector was readily available here in
    > Australia. Times change, of course.


    Maybe a staggered stack-up would be more future-proof.

    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  11. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    On 2006-06-10, Dave Griffith wrote:
    > David R Brooks wrote:
    >> FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    >> years ago:
    >> 1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    >> thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    >> Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.

    >
    > This wishlist of mine would probably mean abandoning the 3" drive form
    > factor.


    Could go with an ATX motherboard form factor...

    --
    roger ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net

  12. Re: another computer kit project

    In article <1149907640.317434.156300@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    "Tarkin" wrote:

    > > I still need to find a SIO or 2, does anyone sell them anymore?

    >
    > Hey, ziggy, have I got a deal for you.
    > I have:
    > 2 x 44-pin PLCC Zilog SCC's, pn Z85C3008SVC
    > 1 x " " " DMA, pn Z84C1008VEC
    >
    > As they are PLCC, I have little or no use for them.
    > You get dibs; if you're not interested, somebody else may
    > want them.
    >
    > I will accept in trade the following:
    >
    > 1 POKEY chip suitable for use in a stock Atari 800
    > 1 8255/82C55A or equivalent
    > 1 FDC, WD1791 or better/equivalent.
    >
    > Or best offers. I will be out of town and unable
    > to ship for a week, but will check my email and
    > respond to those interested.
    >
    > TTFN,
    > Tarkin


    Trying to stick with DIP chips in what im doing, but thanks for the
    thought

  13. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    In article ,
    Roger Ivie wrote:

    > On 2006-06-10, Dave Griffith wrote:
    > > David R Brooks wrote:
    > >> FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    > >> years ago:
    > >> 1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    > >> thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    > >> Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.

    > >
    > > This wishlist of mine would probably mean abandoning the 3" drive form
    > > factor.

    >
    > Could go with an ATX motherboard form factor...


    Or 5.25" form.. Lots of small cases available for that size. Think
    external CDROM cases..

  14. Re: another computer kit project

    In article <1149647573.441242.114350@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
    "Tarkin" wrote:

    > > I still need to find a SIO or 2, does anyone sell them anymore?

    >
    > I believe that BG Micro and JDR both have
    > 4MHz versions in unit quantities.
    >
    > Digikey has them in bulk, @ ~6$ X 130
    > - ridiculous, but 6,8, and 10 Mhz avail.
    >
    > Mouser has unit quantities, ~7.50$,
    > 6,8, 10(?)MHZ avail.
    >
    > HTH,
    > Tarkin


    I didnt find them while searching on digikey's site. ill go look again.
    I have to hit up the shops here in town to, we have 3 of them. They are
    often more $ then mail order, but they are close.

    Didnt think to look at jameco. I tend to forget about them, and in the
    old days that all i ever bought from. ( well that and polypack )

  15. Re: another computer kit project

    ziggy wrote:

    > I didnt find them while searching on digikey's site. ill go look again.
    > I have to hit up the shops here in town to, we have 3 of them. They are
    > often more $ then mail order, but they are close.


    > Didnt think to look at jameco. I tend to forget about them, and in the
    > old days that all i ever bought from. ( well that and polypack )


    I've long given up on getting anything useful from local shops. A while
    ago I went into one looking for a 74ls279. The guy behind the counter
    turned around to get one from a bin, then made a big show of blowing
    dust off of it. He wanted $10 for it. I also needed some 28-pin dip
    sockets. $30 for a package of four.

    Sometime later I went in looking for resisters in quantities larger than
    Radio Shack could provide. I felt like I was in the Cheese Shop sketch.


    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  16. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    Roger Ivie wrote:
    > On 2006-06-10, Dave Griffith wrote:
    >> David R Brooks wrote:
    >>> FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    >>> years ago:
    >>> 1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    >>> thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    >>> Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.

    >>
    >> This wishlist of mine would probably mean abandoning the 3" drive form
    >> factor.


    > Could go with an ATX motherboard form factor...


    How is everyone mounting their P112s anyhow? I just cobbled a simple
    bracket to mount mine in a SCSI case.

    --
    David Griffith
    dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

  17. Re: another computer kit project

    >I've long given up on getting anything useful from local shops. A while
    >ago I went into one looking for a 74ls279. The guy behind the counter
    >turned around to get one from a bin, then made a big show of blowing
    >dust off of it. He wanted $10 for it. I also needed some 28-pin dip
    >sockets. $30 for a package of four.


    Sadly the only electronics shop near me
    (Green Brook electronics NJ) is the same way:
    they have the small parts & tools in single unit quantities,
    but they're asking $10+ for parts that ought to be $1-2 tops.
    How I miss Canal Street of the 70s
    with all the surplus electronics stores.
    --

    -- mejeep deMeep ferret!

  18. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    >> Could go with an ATX motherboard form factor...

    Why not AT format and re-use the cases
    that nobody else can re-use?
    There were many thin 286/386 desktop cases perfect for projects.

    >Or 5.25" form.. Lots of small cases available for that size. Think
    >external CDROM cases..


    The nice external cases have the fan and power supply internal,
    such as the Sun 411 or 600 cases.
    --

    -- mejeep deMeep ferret!

  19. Re: [OT] another computer kit project

    On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:33:10 -0400, ziggy
    wrote:

    >In article ,
    > Roger Ivie wrote:
    >
    >> On 2006-06-10, Dave Griffith wrote:
    >> > David R Brooks wrote:
    >> >> FWIW, some of the design decisions I made when I created the P112, 11
    >> >> years ago:
    >> >> 1. Given I wanted a 3" drive form factor, I really couldn't use
    >> >> thru-hole CPU and memory chips (not enough room). Remember, the 40-DIP
    >> >> Z80 is just a CPU: you need all the peripherals separately.
    >> >
    >> > This wishlist of mine would probably mean abandoning the 3" drive form
    >> > factor.

    >>
    >> Could go with an ATX motherboard form factor...

    >
    >Or 5.25" form.. Lots of small cases available for that size. Think
    >external CDROM cases..


    That's more the size I had in mind.

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