New Home Construction - Connectivity

This is a discussion on New Home Construction - Connectivity ; >> Trying to fish through the knockouts is less than fun... > > That's one more reason why I prefer mud rings to back boxes for low > voltage work. There aren't any knockouts to worry about. Hmm. That's what ...

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Thread: New Home Construction

  1. Re: New Home Construction

    >> Trying to fish through the knockouts is less than fun...
    >
    > That's one more reason why I prefer mud rings to back boxes for low
    > voltage work. There aren't any knockouts to worry about.


    Hmm. That's what I get for not reading back through the thread before
    replying. :^)

    As to fishing through knockouts, it's actually not much of a problem. If
    you avoid making horizontal runs, you only have to drop the cable through
    the top or bottom of the wall. Properly planned, you can almost completely
    avoid horizontal pulls. On retrofits, you pretty much have to do vertical
    drops only.

    >> I stand by my recommendation for conduit in metal studs ;-)

    >
    > Whatever works best for you is the best method for you to use.


    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



  2. Re: New Home Construction

    > Wear *good* eye protection too. Those chips will
    > fly everywhere as well as all the in-wall dirt loosened
    > by the vibration.


    That's good advice for any time you're drilling or cutting. However, IME
    when drilling through wood spade bits throw no more nor less saw debris than
    ordinary stick bits.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



  3. Re: New Home Construction

    > You noticed it's North Carolina but nobody seems
    > to have noticed it's on four floors. I think conduit
    > is a must.


    Having wired systems into existing homes with four or more levels I
    disagree. Conduit is a plus on multi-story runs but it's not an absolute
    must. If you do opt for conduit, make certain you provide pulling elbows,
    junction boxes or LB's at least every 180 of bends -- 90 if the runs are
    long. Also, do NOT fill the conduit with more than a 40% cross-section with
    copper. There are conduit fill charts available online at several cable
    manufacturers' websites, as well as in the NEC manual.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



  4. Re: New Home Construction

    "Robert Green" wrote in message
    news:Y-WdnSkic4DGXKTeRVn-ug@rcn.net...
    > Mitch replied to Robert B:
    >
    >
    >
    >> > There are knockouts for the purpose of running cable through metal

    > studs.
    >> > There are readily available bushings to fit the standardized KO's.
    >> >

    >> Trying to fish through the knockouts is less than fun. I stand by my
    >> recommendation for conduit in metal studs ;-)

    >
    > I second Mitch's motion. If the bushings get knocked off by accident, a
    > hard pull can skin a lot of insulation off.
    >
    > Conduit. The wire goes in one end, it's almost *got* to come out the
    > other
    > and not turn 90 degrees somewhere inside the wall and come spewing out
    > some
    > other than intended hole. It's *so* cheap compared to the )*&#$*&$#
    > frustration that's involved when the "knockouts turn bad" that I can't
    > see
    > doing it any other way anymore. At least for straight vertical runs.


    The other thing I am not hearing much about here is firebreaks, which are
    often irregular in height and a real PITA to get around.

    Also in Calif, textured walls are very common and if you do have to open a
    hole to fish things through, matching the texture is a major pain.

    Lastly smurf tubes are cheap. If you are building, placing them in walls is
    a good idea.



  5. Re: New Home Construction



    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:49:34 GMT, nobody@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote
    in message <433a0425.42251457@nntp.fuse.net>:

    >"wkearney99" wrote:
    >
    >>> I stand by my recommendation for conduit in metal studs ;-)

    >>
    >>No argument there, but given the OP is talking about North Carolina it's
    >>fairly likely to be wood framing. I've friends in the area and most of it
    >>is all wood stick framing.

    >
    >You noticed it's North Carolina but nobody seems to have noticed it's on
    >four floors. I think conduit is a must.


    Then it seems that you ("nobody") haven't read the thread, are confusing
    "floor" with "story" or both.

    Definition: "Townhouse 2. A usually single-family house of two or
    sometimes three stories that is usually connected to a similar house by a
    common sidewall. "

    Our 3 (or 2-1/2) story house has 5 floors depending on what you count;-)

    Is there some assertion that you'd like to make with respect to building
    codes or NEC or physics or aesthetics or economics or something else to
    explain what you mean by "conduit is a must"?


    Marc
    Marc_F_Hult
    www.ECOntrol.org

  6. Re: New Home Construction


    "Robert L Bass" wrote in message
    news:qOidnRLSY_HCxKTeRVn-uQ@comcast.com...

    >
    > Another poster once expressed concern about using a paddle bit to drill
    > through a wall. Note that this can easily and safely be accomplished if
    > you do the following. Be sure you're standing on a firm surface -- not
    > leaning sideways off your ladder when drilling. Drill at a moderate speed
    > and do not push on the drill. Let the bit do the cutting. When the bit
    > starts to come throuogh the other side of the wood it can bind if you're
    > drilling at an angle *and* pressing hard on the drill. By using light
    > pressure and allowing the bit to do the job you will avoid problems. Even
    > if you do bind the bit, unless you're using a really powerful drill you
    > won't hurt yourself.


    The concern I expressed was all about hidden nails. If you can't see *both*
    sides of the project you're drilling it's far safer using a twist drill. A
    "paddle bit" will bind on a nail and even if you're using moderate pressure
    and speed, most drills generate enough torque to cause you serious injury.
    I know of *no* other professional installer (even a former one) that
    uses(ed) a paddle bit to drill into a wall space. Your experience may have
    been good so far but I just don't believe in taking chances. If I miss even
    one day "at the counter", my customers throw fits. ;-))



  7. Re: New Home Construction

    > The other thing I am not hearing much about here is firebreaks, which are
    > often irregular in height and a real PITA to get around.


    Not with a long auger bit. Works wonders for drilling up/down through them.

    > Also in Calif, textured walls are very common and if you do have to open a
    > hole to fish things through, matching the texture is a major pain.


    True, but textured walls are often the contractors way to justify not having
    decent plaster finishers on the job.

    > Lastly smurf tubes are cheap. If you are building, placing them in walls

    is
    > a good idea.


    No argument there. It's just not an either/or proposition. Balancing
    between the cost of adding them and having them in the wrong locations
    versus not installing them at all and just fishing the wires as needed. But
    if you can really plan them right and can absorb the added costs then
    conduits are certainly VERY helpful.


  8. Re: New Home Construction

    > You noticed it's North Carolina but nobody seems to have noticed it's on
    > four floors. I think conduit is a must.


    A *riser* conduit, certainly. But in-room conduits, that's an added cost
    that can be avoided. Having conduit space that runs top to bottom through
    the whole house is a TREMENDOUSLY good idea. Pulling a pair of 3" conduits
    into a work box inside closets or something will make any future wiring
    efforts considerable less of a hassle. Either as a single 'stack' leading
    up through the house or up to each floor as is convenient. Some houses will
    have a wall that lends itself to a single one. But for others I'd be fine
    with having ones that run upward to the most logical place for that floor.
    As Robert points out, you want to be careful about bends. Better to have
    more than one stack dropping down into an unfinished basement space (or
    easily accessed joist cavity) than to have stuff twising and turning through
    too many bends.

    -Bill Kearney


  9. Re: New Home Construction

    > That's good advice for any time you're drilling or cutting. However, IME
    > when drilling through wood spade bits throw no more nor less saw debris

    than
    > ordinary stick bits.


    Heh and if you REALLY want to make debris, use a Rotozip. Those things are
    a pain in the ass to clean up after on anything other than new construction.
    A simple hand drywall saw makes NOWHERE near the mess.


  10. Re: New Home Construction

    > Is there some assertion that you'd like to make with
    > respect to building codes or NEC or physics or
    > aesthetics or economics or something else to explain
    > what you mean by "conduit is a must"?


    Marc,

    I doubt the gentleman has ever wired an existing or even a new structure due
    to his unfortunate physical problems. In any case, his assertion that
    conduit is a must is wrong.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



  11. Re: New Home Construction

    > Heh and if you REALLY want to make debris,
    > use a Rotozip. Those things are a pain in the
    > ass to clean up after on anything other than
    > new construction.


    Someone else once mentioned using a roto-zip to do speaker cut-outs. IIRC,
    the gentleman suggested taping a clear plastic bag to the wall and running
    the tool from within. I imagine that would help but I never had time to do
    all that during the job. I always used a keyhole saw. I find that a damp
    towel sitting on the drop cloth just below where I'm working is very helpful
    as well.

    > A simple hand drywall saw makes NOWHERE near
    > the mess.


    Yep.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



  12. Re: New Home Construction

    > The other thing I am not hearing much about here is
    > firebreaks, which are often irregular in height and a
    > real PITA to get around.


    I have two ways to get past them. As another gentleman mentioned, a long
    D'Versibit or Canadian Flexidrill will punch right through a firestop.
    Alternatively, if you still have some of the paint and the wall is smooth
    you can route the sheetrock and the fire stop, slip the cable past it and
    slip a small metal plate over the route before spackling. This is more time
    consuming but you normally only need to do it in a few places per home.

    > Also in Calif, textured walls are very common and
    > if you do have to open a hole to fish things through,
    > matching the texture is a major pain.


    The best place to open an access hole is behind the baseboard or ceiling
    trim board. With a little patience these can be removed and replaced with
    no sign that anything was done. I and several others have posted detailed
    instructions on the procedure several times both here and in a certain
    "other" newsgroup.

    > Lastly smurf tubes are cheap. If you are building,
    > placing them in walls is a good idea.


    They're OK as long as you're certain you'll never need to change a location
    later.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota Florida 34231
    941-925-9747 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>



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