need help choosing appropriate BSD distro - BSD

This is a discussion on need help choosing appropriate BSD distro - BSD ; On 23 Jun 2007 21:53:45 -0700, Marco S Hyman wrote: > >It is the issue. You don't understand. The ISO you see on line >*is* the install CD. Boot it. It either works or it doesn't. >The CD contains a ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 57

Thread: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

  1. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On 23 Jun 2007 21:53:45 -0700, Marco S Hyman wrote:

    >
    >It is the issue. You don't understand. The ISO you see on line
    >*is* the install CD. Boot it. It either works or it doesn't.
    >The CD contains a version of the OS that runs out of a ram disk.
    >That version of the OS will either support your network device or
    >it wont. If it doesn't support your device reset the machine
    >and throw the CD away. You've wasted maybe 10 minutes of time.


    I'll burn that iso and give it a try. If it doesn't work for me, then
    I can rule this one out.

  2. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    In article ,
    wrote:
    >But if Open BSD is really based on another branch of BSD,
    >the other one would probably be as likely to support my hardware,
    >shouldn't it?


    Nope, not necessarily. especially where wireless cards are concerned.

    If you read around, you'll see a lot of info that indicates the OpenBSD
    project has done some major efforts to get a lot of wireless cards natively
    supported, some of which is not yet available on the other BSDs.

    Look, you're unwilling to do the basic work of trying things out. You insist
    you understand things better than we do... like, we told you repeatedly
    there *is* a CD image you can use to do the installation. We told you
    repeatedly that it is *likely* your wireless card might be supported
    by that CD image... apparently, you're unwilling to even try, and you're
    so thick-headed and conventional that you insist you can't install if you
    don't have a full-size CD image, and that it is not possible that we support
    your wireless card ?

    Why can't you accept that we are a different culture, and that we do stuff
    in different ways than what you're used to ?

    It's not as if the www site is not choke-full of install information (maybe
    too much), and as if it doesn't mention the hardware we support in full and
    extensive detail. It's not as if it will cost you all that much to burn the
    cd install media once and try things out (at least get to the dmesg part,
    you'll see whether your hardware is supported). Or find out somebody in your
    geographic area that owns an official CD and borrow it...

    It's not as if there are not *tons* of solutions to your immediate issues.
    We've even given you a lot of them, but no, you insist that what YOU want
    isn't possible.

    Do we care ? not that much. OpenBSD is not developped for YOU. It's developped
    because the developpers want it to be that way. Coincidentally, it's also
    possible to install it. Thousands of people around the world can do it.

  3. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:43:49 GMT, jch wrote:

    >Please don't be too hasty!


    >snip<


    I read your reply and will give it further consideration later today.

    I'm off to my ministry until mid-afternoon, have some personal things
    to take care of after that, and then may need to care for my
    semi-invalid wife after that (hence my requirement for a
    low-maintenance OS--but not Windows--due to very limited time
    available--I don't want to shortchange my ministry or wife in any way
    of the time they should have from me), but it actually looks like I
    might have an hour this evening to myself to look this over some more
    and also the posts after yours (no more time this morning so the rest
    of your post will need to wait for a more careful reading and the
    posts after that will be read later also).

    I do like the tone of your post, though. Not condescending in the
    least, and it is encouraging enough for me to give this a try, even if
    I have to put it on the back burner for a while until I get some time
    to learn more. I will also give the boot iso a try and see what
    happens. But I don't have a separate drive to use for the laptop. Only
    a separate partition.


  4. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:26:04 -0400, t2000k wrote:

    > Also, I'm not ready to ditch a few programs that I paid good money for
    > that are windows programs, and these have no close equivalents in Unix
    > type programs, so that requirement is non-negotiable. Wine must work
    > in the OS I choose for the laptop. For almost all other programs, even
    > ones I paid for (like MS Office) and work well for me in Windows,
    > there are suitable equivalents, so it's not like I need to run
    > everything I have been using before under Wine. Just a few programs.


    Now you have a requirement for Wine! And you want something ready to use.
    Take a look at http://www.winehq.org/site/download. The only binaries
    available are for Linux. Solaris and PC-BSD. Since you have already
    rejected PC-BSD and building from source is hardly "ready to use" your
    choices have been defined for you.


  5. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:41:06 +0200, Angel wrote:

    >
    >If you had simply read the installation instructions of any of the BSDs
    >on which groups you are saying and asking the same things again and
    >again, you would have already had success on installing them.


    Thank you for all your help and the vote of confidence. :-)

  6. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:14:41 +0200, "Thierry B."
    wrote:

    >
    > Please, do that... I'm relatively new to Open, and just run it
    > in textmode on headless computers. Now, I'm thinking about
    > switching one of my laptop from Debian to Open as a workstation.


    I'd be interested in that myself.

  7. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:43:49 GMT, jch wrote:

    >The best way to figure out how to get going with OBSD is to fetch a copy
    >of the boot CD iso (release 4.1), and burn a copy, or instead, fetch a
    >copy of the boot floppy (release 4.1) image (if your computer still has
    >a floppy drive) and cut a floppy boot disk. I suggest that you practice
    >installing OBSD on a machine that has a) a separate hard disk (2 to 4
    >Gb) you can afford to clobber (e.g. play with), and b) a supported NIC
    >(wireless or otherwise). While reading the (very good) info on the OBSD
    >web site on another machine, go through the motions of the installation
    >process. You will soon learn how that works.



    I had a few minutes to use the install boot disk and it appears that
    it does recognize my wireless card, though I didn't get very far in
    the install process yet. I'll need to find the instructions on doing
    it that way first as it's not completely intuitive.

    It messed up the master boot record on the hard drive but I used the
    undocumented procedure to restore it and all is well again.

    Unfortunately, I don't have a separate disk that has nothing on it.
    The two on my desktop computer are both used by different operating
    systems and the one on the laptop only has a spare 4 GB partition.

    I'll check out the info on the web site when I have more time. I have
    too many things that take my time away from my computer interests and
    I have to work it in when I can do so. Some people don't seem to have
    a life and understand how this lack of time (caring for a sick person,
    taking care of my ministry, and full time work to support myself) can
    affect my ability to do lots of reading on different BSD branches just
    to try to find one that meets my requirements. I do appreciate your
    help and the help of others here who do understand this or are patient
    with people who are not familiar with these BDS branches.

    I had a rare opportunity early this afternoon to try out the install
    CD burned from the iso image or it would have had to wait until the
    evening (or late afternoon).

    Since you've done this before, could you tell me if there's a place
    during the install process that asks you for a WEP key so I can
    connect to the Internet for the install?

    I really don't want to disable WEP if I don't have to do so. It was a
    pain setting it up since the router decided that it wanted to use
    non-standard IP addresses for the home network, not the ones the
    manual said it would use. So I had to design a work-around to get it
    to work (took me a week to do so), and it does, but if I "disturb" it
    I'm not so sure I would be able to get it working again. Security (at
    least a measure of it) is important since I've been a victim of
    identity theft in the past.

    Thanks again to everyone who wish to be helpful and patient instead of
    critical (which is most of you)!

  8. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    In article ,
    wrote:
    >Since you've done this before, could you tell me if there's a place
    >during the install process that asks you for a WEP key so I can
    >connect to the Internet for the install?


    WEP, among other things, is just a property of the network interface.
    So this is stuff you can specify among other options, when it asks you
    whether you need specific options for your network interface.

    You can refer to the ifconfig(8) man page on the web site for all supported
    options.

    The most important options for your wireless setup are probably:

    nwid id nwkey key

    which gives respectively the network name and the network key

    The key can either be a
    string, a series of hexadecimal digits (preceded by `0x'), or a
    set of keys of the form ``n:k1,k2,k3,k4'' where `n' specifies
    which of the keys will be used for transmitted packets, and the
    four keys, ``k1'' through ``k4'', are configured as WEP keys. If


  9. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:09:05 -0400, t2000k wrote:

    > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:43:49 GMT, jch wrote:
    >
    >>While reading the (very good) info on the OBSD
    >>web site on another machine, go through the motions of the installation
    >>process. You will soon learn how that works.

    >
    > In their ignorance, one person made the incorrect assumption that I
    > hadn't looked over this info on the BSD or other sites. I do remember
    > looking this info on this particular BSD branch over before and
    > deciding it was way over my head. That's not the same as not reading
    > the material. Oh well, (some) people will make assumptions! :-)


    Since I was the one who supposedly made some "incorrect assumption" let's
    look at the facts, not assumptions.

    In message you stated
    clearly,

    "Here's where I checked for a full install CD iso image:

    http://mirror.planetunix.net/pub/OpenBSD/4.1/i386/"

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO tells you "The OpenBSD project
    does not make the ISO images used to master the official CDs available
    for download." And you *persist* in your search for a full installation
    CD image and still claim that you read the FAQ.

    "I see none. Some of the titles appear to be install CDs but take a
    look at the file size and you'll see what I see."

    Yet http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#MkInsMedia has a description of
    those files which had confused you. You did not read the FAQ or you have
    a lack of short term memory.


  10. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:25:53 -0500, Dave Uhring
    wrote:

    >
    >Now you have a requirement for Wine! And you want something ready to use.
    >Take a look at http://www.winehq.org/site/download. The only binaries
    >available are for Linux. Solaris and PC-BSD. Since you have already
    >rejected PC-BSD and building from source is hardly "ready to use" your
    >choices have been defined for you.


    It appears that you are right. FreeBSD is supported also, which I
    don't think I've tried yet.

    I might learn to do the net install just for some experience but it'll
    have to wait for a bit of free time to do that.

    Thanks for pointing that out. What a shame, since it looks like it
    supported the wireless card, something that some of the BSD branches
    did not.

    One question--are the various BSDs different enough that a program
    might not work on one but would on another?

  11. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:23:52 -0400, t2000k wrote:

    > One question--are the various BSDs different enough that a program
    > might not work on one but would on another?


    There are kernel compatibility modules for running otherBSD binaries on
    thisBSD. No idea how well that works.

    From the GENERIC configuration file for OpenBSD:

    option COMPAT_SVR4 # binary compatibility with SVR4
    option COMPAT_IBCS2 # binary compatibility with SCO and ISC
    option COMPAT_LINUX # binary compatibility with Linux
    option COMPAT_FREEBSD # binary compatibility with FreeBSD
    option COMPAT_BSDOS # binary compatibility with BSD/OS


  12. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:44:54 -0500, Dave Uhring
    wrote:

    >You did not read the FAQ or you have
    >a lack of short term memory.


    Wrong on the first part.

    Correct (sort of, but not technically correct) on the second one.

    What I have is a learning disability that you appear to want to rub in
    my face. I can see that you like to do that. At least you appear to be
    good at it. I don't need to go into details but I thought I'd give you
    the courtesy of being made aware of it.

    I did read through it all and found only on a re-read that there is no
    install CD available without buying one. Just for the learning
    experience, though, and per someone's suggestion (might have been
    yours, don't remember), I might go through the process just to
    understand something that I don't at this time. It might come in handy
    if Wine eventually supports this branch of BSD.

    Since it looks like this branch of BSD won't support Wine at this
    time, I'll be looking at one other branch yet. If you're on that group
    maybe you can be of help to me with that one if I ask for help.

    And thanks for your help so far with this one.

  13. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    This does sound interesting. It will have to wait for enough time to
    read about this before trying it out, but the 3rd or 4th option might
    make it possible to run Wine.

    I'll flag your post so I don't lose it when I refresh the group.

    Thanks.

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:35:42 -0500, Dave Uhring
    wrote:

    >
    >There are kernel compatibility modules for running otherBSD binaries on
    >thisBSD. No idea how well that works.
    >
    >From the GENERIC configuration file for OpenBSD:
    >
    >option COMPAT_SVR4 # binary compatibility with SVR4
    >option COMPAT_IBCS2 # binary compatibility with SCO and ISC
    >option COMPAT_LINUX # binary compatibility with Linux
    >option COMPAT_FREEBSD # binary compatibility with FreeBSD
    >option COMPAT_BSDOS # binary compatibility with BSD/OS


  14. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:43:49 GMT, jch wrote:

    >Please don't be too hasty!


    After I try the other BSD branch I haven't tried yet (I think it's
    FreeBSD), I might just reconsider and give up on the Windows email
    program requirement since I'll have dual-boot capability anyway. The
    only real reason I would have to have Agent on the laptop is if the
    desktop was down for repairs, and a boot to Windows would take care of
    that until I had the problem fixed. Then OpenBSD might work for me.

    Again, I'll have to give the install instructions a careful re-read a
    third time and see if I think I can understand them well enough to do
    the installation. This is one of those documents that I have to
    re-read a few times. Every time I get into it I seem to get a little
    further through it. Maybe that's the norm for newbies but it sort of
    makes me feel a bit slow on the uptake. Some things I can grasp
    immediately; This is not one of those things.

    One question that might come up for me is this: If I do the install
    with a USB Ethernet adapter (not wireless) and later switch to
    wireless, does the OS recognize it at boot time or do I need to
    "teach" it that it is there somehow.

    Of course, if I can get the wireless device not only recognized but
    working during the install from the install CD before reverting to a
    more conventional Ethernet adapter, I wouldn't need to do a switch
    later on.

    But when you change hardware, if it's something supported by the OS,
    do you have to load other files/modules/etc. to support it or does it
    usually do what it needs to support it?

    I'm not sure if that question makes any sense. Let me know if it
    doesn't, please.

  15. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    t2000kw@nospam.invalid wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:35:42 -0500, Dave Uhring
    > wrote:
    >>There are kernel compatibility modules for running otherBSD binaries on
    >>thisBSD. No idea how well that works.
    >>
    >>From the GENERIC configuration file for OpenBSD:
    >>
    >>option COMPAT_SVR4 # binary compatibility with SVR4
    >>option COMPAT_IBCS2 # binary compatibility with SCO and ISC
    >>option COMPAT_LINUX # binary compatibility with Linux
    >>option COMPAT_FREEBSD # binary compatibility with FreeBSD
    >>option COMPAT_BSDOS # binary compatibility with BSD/OS


    > This does sound interesting. It will have to wait for enough time to
    > read about this before trying it out, but the 3rd or 4th option might
    > make it possible to run Wine.
    >
    > I'll flag your post so I don't lose it when I refresh the group.


    This will not work. The problem is that WINE uses some tricky threading
    features[1] that are not supported on OpenBSD. Those same tricky
    threading features are not supported in OpenBSD's Linux emulation
    either.

    An effort to get WINE to run on OpenBSD is currently being undertaken by
    some OpenBSD users, but I have no idea whether or not that will result
    in a working port, and how soon.

    Joachim

    [1] Ask your friendly neighbourhood expert what those are, I don't know.

  16. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    t2000kw@nospam.invalid wrote:
    > One question--are the various BSDs different enough that a program
    > might not work on one but would on another?


    Most well-written applications would work on any *BSD, but not all. WINE
    has rather exotic requirements (and whether that means they legitimately
    decided to make the best use of nonportable features or were too lazy to
    find a proper solution - I couldn't say).

    Joachim

  17. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    I like your footnoting. It adds some humor to the post, and in others,
    important information, too.

    I'm not surprised that Wine is as it is. I'm surprised it works at all
    in any non-Windows OS.

    I might give in and give up on the Wine requirement for the laptop. I
    mentioned in another post that I would only NEED it on the desktop. If
    the desktop computer broke, I could boot to Windows on the laptop and
    have my Agent email/newsgroup reader. Also my wife would not feel lost
    if she needed to use my laptop if the desktop computer were broken.

    To get away form Windows on the laptop, I might have to give up on
    wanting to have Wine work on it, even in an OS it's made to support.
    The hardware may just be too old. Someone else mentioned that it might
    not have been compiled to support my older hardware. I installed it as
    a binary, precompiled. I could compile it myself (haven't done much of
    that) but Wine is strange, as you mention, and I don't know if it
    would blow up things or work nicely after doing that.

    On 24 Jun 2007 21:46:31 GMT, "Joachim Schipper"
    wrote:

    >This will not work. The problem is that WINE uses some tricky threading
    >features[1] that are not supported on OpenBSD. Those same tricky
    >threading features are not supported in OpenBSD's Linux emulation
    >either.
    >
    >An effort to get WINE to run on OpenBSD is currently being undertaken by
    >some OpenBSD users, but I have no idea whether or not that will result
    >in a working port, and how soon.
    >
    > Joachim
    >
    >[1] Ask your friendly neighbourhood expert what those are, I don't know.


  18. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    On 24 Jun 2007 21:47:57 GMT, "Joachim Schipper"
    wrote:

    >Most well-written applications would work on any *BSD, but not all.


    Are most Unix-compatible (this might not be the best choice of words
    for this) programs able to work in Linux and BSD?

    I understand that Sun Microsystems is either making a version of
    Solaris that will run Linux programs (and maybe BSD programs--heard
    this secondhand) or doing something to support Linux programs. I just
    wondered how close all of these somewhat similar but also very
    different (in some respects, at least, like the actual code) operating
    systems are to each other.

  19. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    t2000kw@nospam.invalid wrote:
    > I might give in and give up on the Wine requirement for the laptop. I
    > mentioned in another post that I would only NEED it on the desktop. If
    > the desktop computer broke, I could boot to Windows on the laptop and
    > have my Agent email/newsgroup reader. Also my wife would not feel lost
    > if she needed to use my laptop if the desktop computer were broken.
    >
    > To get away form Windows on the laptop, I might have to give up on
    > wanting to have Wine work on it, even in an OS it's made to support.
    > The hardware may just be too old. Someone else mentioned that it might
    > not have been compiled to support my older hardware. I installed it as
    > a binary, precompiled. I could compile it myself (haven't done much of
    > that) but Wine is strange, as you mention, and I don't know if it
    > would blow up things or work nicely after doing that.


    One alternate solution that you might consider - depending on where and
    when you use the laptop - is to tunnel the X11 connection.

    X11 is a client/server application; applications ('X clients') tell X
    what to draw, and the server draws it. This is, at least in theory,
    network-transparent.

    So you might want to give it a shot. There are several tutorials on
    remote X out there; I seem to recall reading at least one at tldp.org.
    If the network you are working on is untrusted - say, encrypted with
    nothing stronger than WEP - you will most likely want to consider
    setting up a VPN or just using ssh -X.

    Note that setting up remote X, while not particularly difficult, is not
    entirely painless either. And the result may or may not be unbearably
    slow (the few times I tried it, it was tolerably slow).

    If you've got a spare box to run Windows, you could run Agent and so on
    that and use a similar solution - your pick of rdesktop (XP Pro/any
    server edition, no idea about Vista) or tightvnc (any recent-ish
    Windows) - to achieve pretty much the same effect.

    Of course, finding free software alternatives to the Windows programs
    you are still attached to, if possible, is the best solution.

    Joachim

  20. Re: need help choosing appropriate BSD distro

    t2000kw@nospam.invalid wrote:
    > On 24 Jun 2007 21:47:57 GMT, "Joachim Schipper"
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Most well-written applications would work on any *BSD, but not all.

    >
    > Are most Unix-compatible (this might not be the best choice of words
    > for this) programs able to work in Linux and BSD?


    Yes.

    > I understand that Sun Microsystems is either making a version of
    > Solaris that will run Linux programs (and maybe BSD programs--heard
    > this secondhand) or doing something to support Linux programs. I just
    > wondered how close all of these somewhat similar but also very
    > different (in some respects, at least, like the actual code) operating
    > systems are to each other.


    Outside of some specific aspects, very similar. Specifically controlling
    the kernel (say, configuring the firewall) is likely to be very
    different, but - with a little thought spend on portability - most
    programs will work well.

    However, each system has its own extensions. This might be as innocuous
    as OpenBSD's safer string functions (strlcpy) - which can be used on
    any Linux or Solaris machine simply by including a copy of the source -
    or as complex as a non-interoperable threading API (see WINE).

    Nonetheless, the majority of *nix programs will run fine on any *nix
    system. This is particularly true of programs written in higher-level
    languages (like Perl or Python) that do a rather good job of plastering
    over the difference between operating systems (mostly at the expense of
    any OS-specific extensions).

    And I don't really know about Sun and Linux, maybe someone else can
    comment on that.

    Joachim

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast