Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based? - BSD

This is a discussion on Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based? - BSD ; I just loaded FreeBSD into a virtual drive run by VMware's Workstation 6 operating on a Windows XP SP2 2.2Ghz Celeron .5GIG Ram c/w 80GIG HDD. I only have the first CD. My main question at this point is.... Is ...

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Thread: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

  1. Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    I just loaded FreeBSD into a virtual drive run by VMware's Workstation 6
    operating on a Windows XP SP2 2.2Ghz Celeron .5GIG Ram c/w 80GIG HDD. I only
    have the first CD. My main question at this point is....

    Is FreeBSD a graphic or a text based system and if it's the former how do I
    get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.




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  2. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:49 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    wrote:

    > I just loaded FreeBSD into a virtual drive run by VMware's Workstation 6
    > operating on a Windows XP SP2 2.2Ghz Celeron .5GIG Ram c/w 80GIG HDD. I only
    > have the first CD. My main question at this point is....
    >
    > Is FreeBSD a graphic or a text based system and if it's the former how do I
    > get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.



    Never heard of a GUI interface.....! :-)


    FreeBSD (well, its ancestors) started as text based systems, same as
    others did. A basic install will give you a text based system (but with
    multiple 'consoles') using Alt-F1, Alt-F2, etc.).

    You can add X (the X Window System) and get a nice graphical interface.
    Start here for instructions:

    http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...dbook/x11.html

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  3. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-ddVrjkz1BZBG@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:49 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I just loaded FreeBSD into a virtual drive run by VMware's Workstation 6
    >> operating on a Windows XP SP2 2.2Ghz Celeron .5GIG Ram c/w 80GIG HDD. I
    >> only
    >> have the first CD. My main question at this point is....
    >>
    >> Is FreeBSD a graphic or a text based system and if it's the former how do
    >> I
    >> get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.

    >
    >
    > Never heard of a GUI interface.....! :-)
    >

    >
    > FreeBSD (well, its ancestors) started as text based systems, same as
    > others did. A basic install will give you a text based system (but with
    > multiple 'consoles') using Alt-F1, Alt-F2, etc.).
    >
    > You can add X (the X Window System) and get a nice graphical interface.
    > Start here for instructions:
    >
    > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...dbook/x11.html
    >
    > --
    > Bob Eager
    > begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!


    Thank you. GUI is Graphic User Interface. I'm a slave to it. I'm very
    visual. Maybe that's because I'm slightly deaf.

    Anyway, this proved to be a great resource. However, now I'm wrestling with
    how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?



  4. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    wrote:

    > "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    > news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-ddVrjkz1BZBG@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:49 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    > > wrote:
    > >> get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.

    > >
    > >
    > > Never heard of a GUI interface.....! :-)
    > >


    > Thank you. GUI is Graphic User Interface.


    You missed the point. You said GUI Interface - i.e. Graphic User
    Interface Interface!

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  5. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-Qd9dZjEdVKdQ@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    >> news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-ddVrjkz1BZBG@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    >> > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:49 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    >> > wrote:
    >> >> get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Never heard of a GUI interface.....! :-)
    >> >

    >
    >> Thank you. GUI is Graphic User Interface.

    >
    > You missed the point. You said GUI Interface - i.e. Graphic User
    > Interface Interface!
    >
    > --
    > Bob Eager
    > begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!


    Dood. At my age, you're always missing the point. LOL

    How DO you load it tho. Come on. Give up the secret.



  6. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:25:04 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    wrote:

    > "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    > news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-Qd9dZjEdVKdQ@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> "Bob Eager" wrote in message
    > >> news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-ddVrjkz1BZBG@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
    > >> > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:49 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    > >> > wrote:
    > >> >> get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Never heard of a GUI interface.....! :-)
    > >> >

    > >
    > >> Thank you. GUI is Graphic User Interface.

    > >
    > > You missed the point. You said GUI Interface - i.e. Graphic User
    > > Interface Interface!
    > >
    > > --
    > > Bob Eager
    > > begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

    >
    > Dood. At my age, you're always missing the point. LOL
    >
    > How DO you load it tho. Come on. Give up the secret.


    I said before. Link to full instructions in previous post. Install the X
    Window System. Follow that with other stuff of choice. You can either
    have it auto-start, or type 'startx' at a shell prompt.

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  7. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:

    > However, now I'm wrestling with
    > how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?


    Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    after logging in. These people are weird. :-)

    Old-school folk run xdm from /etc/ttys, with a line something like:
    ttyv8 "/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm on secure

    If you go that way, you'll also have to figure out a script to put in
    $HOME/.xinitrc to start a window manager and desktop applications
    that you want to use. Futzing with those configuration files gets old
    quickly, which is why the modern "Integrated desktop" approach is more
    popular.

    That modern approach involves installing either GNOME, KDE or perhaps FLTK
    from ports or packages. These are large, compared to the old-school
    style, but once installed your system basically comes up GUI all by
    itself, just like any other modern desktop system. I run GNOME, and like
    it, but you'll find plenty of advocates for the others, and I dare say
    they install and work just fine. As far as starting up goes, GNOME
    installs gdm, which performs the same login-window GUI function as xdm,
    but it starts from a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d, like other daemons,
    rather than from /etc/ttys. Consequently, you need to add the line
    gdm_enable="YES"
    to /etc/rc.conf, just like you enable other rc.d daemons.

    Cheers,

    --
    Andrew


  8. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    Andrew Reilly wrote:
    > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:
    >
    >> However, now I'm wrestling with
    >> how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?

    >
    > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)
    >
    > Old-school folk run xdm from /etc/ttys, with a line something like:
    > ttyv8 "/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm on secure


    Of course, Xorg 7.2 is no longer in /usr/X11R6 (which is now a symlink
    to /usr/local). Xorg 7.2 installs just like any other port/package --
    it installs to /usr/local.

    So the above line should read (FOR X.org 7.2 and newer on FreeBSD):
    ttyv8 "/usr/local/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm on secure

    FreeBSD 6.2 ships with X.org 6.9. The updated Xorg is ready in ports,
    and packages are catching up (if not already caught up).

    > If you go that way, you'll also have to figure out a script to put in
    > $HOME/.xinitrc to start a window manager and desktop applications
    > that you want to use. Futzing with those configuration files gets old
    > quickly, which is why the modern "Integrated desktop" approach is more
    > popular.


    I beleive .xinitrc is only for startx, and .xsession is for XDM/GDM/KDM
    logins. They act the same, but I remember reading something about this
    when I was setting up an X11 box.

    What you can do, is define .xinitrc and symlink .xsession to it. So it
    doesn't matter what you run, it is there.

    > That modern approach involves installing either GNOME, KDE or perhaps FLTK
    > from ports or packages. These are large, compared to the old-school
    > style, but once installed your system basically comes up GUI all by
    > itself, just like any other modern desktop system. I run GNOME, and like
    > it, but you'll find plenty of advocates for the others, and I dare say
    > they install and work just fine. As far as starting up goes, GNOME
    > installs gdm, which performs the same login-window GUI function as xdm,
    > but it starts from a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d, like other daemons,
    > rather than from /etc/ttys. Consequently, you need to add the line
    > gdm_enable="YES"
    > to /etc/rc.conf, just like you enable other rc.d daemons.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >


    Enjoy!

  9. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    "Andrew Reilly" wrote in message
    newsan.2007.07.20.01.32.43.825233@areilly.bpc-users.org...
    > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:
    >
    >> However, now I'm wrestling with
    >> how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?

    >
    > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)
    >
    > Old-school folk run xdm from /etc/ttys, with a line something like:
    > ttyv8 "/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm on secure
    >
    > If you go that way, you'll also have to figure out a script to put in
    > $HOME/.xinitrc to start a window manager and desktop applications
    > that you want to use. Futzing with those configuration files gets old
    > quickly, which is why the modern "Integrated desktop" approach is more
    > popular.
    >
    > That modern approach involves installing either GNOME, KDE or perhaps FLTK
    > from ports or packages. These are large, compared to the old-school
    > style, but once installed your system basically comes up GUI all by
    > itself, just like any other modern desktop system. I run GNOME, and like
    > it, but you'll find plenty of advocates for the others, and I dare say
    > they install and work just fine. As far as starting up goes, GNOME
    > installs gdm, which performs the same login-window GUI function as xdm,
    > but it starts from a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d, like other daemons,
    > rather than from /etc/ttys. Consequently, you need to add the line
    > gdm_enable="YES"
    > to /etc/rc.conf, just like you enable other rc.d daemons.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > --
    > Andrew


    Thank you Andrew. I tried xstart as previously suggested and I was told that
    it was a bad command. I'll try your method now. I have the X Windows system
    installed. I MUST have. I've "installed" it three times, using alternate
    methods.



  10. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:32:45 UTC, Andrew Reilly
    wrote:

    > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:
    >
    > > However, now I'm wrestling with
    > > how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?

    >
    > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)


    After 31 years of UNIX, it feels more comfortable!

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  11. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:15:51 UTC, "Umma Gumma"
    wrote:

    > "Andrew Reilly" wrote in message
    > newsan.2007.07.20.01.32.43.825233@areilly.bpc-users.org...
    > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:
    > >
    > >> However, now I'm wrestling with
    > >> how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?

    > >
    > > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)
    > >
    > > Old-school folk run xdm from /etc/ttys, with a line something like:
    > > ttyv8 "/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm on secure
    > >
    > > If you go that way, you'll also have to figure out a script to put in
    > > $HOME/.xinitrc to start a window manager and desktop applications
    > > that you want to use. Futzing with those configuration files gets old
    > > quickly, which is why the modern "Integrated desktop" approach is more
    > > popular.
    > >
    > > That modern approach involves installing either GNOME, KDE or perhaps FLTK
    > > from ports or packages. These are large, compared to the old-school
    > > style, but once installed your system basically comes up GUI all by
    > > itself, just like any other modern desktop system. I run GNOME, and like
    > > it, but you'll find plenty of advocates for the others, and I dare say
    > > they install and work just fine. As far as starting up goes, GNOME
    > > installs gdm, which performs the same login-window GUI function as xdm,
    > > but it starts from a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d, like other daemons,
    > > rather than from /etc/ttys. Consequently, you need to add the line
    > > gdm_enable="YES"
    > > to /etc/rc.conf, just like you enable other rc.d daemons.

    >
    > Thank you Andrew. I tried xstart as previously suggested and I was told that
    > it was a bad command. I'll try your method now. I have the X Windows system
    > installed. I MUST have. I've "installed" it three times, using alternate
    > methods.


    Not sure who mentioned 'xstart'. I said 'startx'...!

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  12. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:32:45 +1000
    Andrew Reilly wrote:

    > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)


    There are a few reasons for doing this. For instance when fiddling
    with the machine (adding hardware say) it is much quicker to boot into a
    command line than to start up the X server. Another is that with a little
    care it is easy to run multiple X servers on the same box.

    --
    C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
    The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
    You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
    | http://www.sohara.org/

  13. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    In our last episode,
    ,
    the lovely and talented Andrew Reilly
    broadcast on comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:

    > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:26:08 +0000, Umma Gumma wrote:


    >> However, now I'm wrestling with
    >> how to load it up when FreeBSD loads. Any hints?


    > Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    > after logging in. These people are weird. :-)


    Many people (that is, I) use freeBSD because it still has a useful set of
    textmode tool because we (that is, I) hate GUIs. However, UTF-8 was
    invented to break all of the textmode tools, so I may be stuck with Windoz
    after all.


    --
    Lars Eighner
    Countdown: 549 days to go.
    Owing to massive spam from googlegroups, I do not see most posts from there.

  14. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    In article <1Swni.130014$NV3.124169@pd7urf2no>,
    Umma Gumma wrote:
    >I just loaded FreeBSD into a virtual drive run by VMware's Workstation 6
    >operating on a Windows XP SP2 2.2Ghz Celeron .5GIG Ram c/w 80GIG HDD. I only
    >have the first CD. My main question at this point is....
    >
    >Is FreeBSD a graphic or a text based system and if it's the former how do I
    >get a GUI interface? I'm very used to GUI interfaces.
    >


    *EVERY* variant of Unix is a text-based system. period.

    On _most_ of them, there is a 'standard' suite of user-level applications
    that provide a GUI environment. This is the 'X Window System' from MIT.

    There are several variations on the 'look and feel' of the GUI, which are
    determined by which one of several special "window manager" applications
    you choose to run.

    Above and beyond that, there are several 'integrated' environments -- that
    provide a 'look & feel' along with a suite of 'desktop' applications (e.g.,
    a 'file manager') in a given style -- a couple of the more common ones are
    'kde', and 'gnome'.

    *MOST* Unix -- and 'look-alike'/'work-alike' systems -- provide options at
    system installation time for installing 'X' along with one or more window-
    mangers and at least one 'integraed' environment.

    To get a GUI environment, you just have to make sure that the basic services
    were included at system install and then do a little 'configuration' to have
    those things run automatically on syste start-up and/or user log-in, as
    appropriate.


  15. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:33:45 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:

    > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:32:45 +1000
    > Andrew Reilly wrote:
    >
    >> Many people start FreeBSD in text console mode, and then run "startx"
    >> after logging in. These people are weird. :-)

    >
    > There are a few reasons for doing this. For instance when fiddling
    > with the machine (adding hardware say) it is much quicker to boot into a
    > command line than to start up the X server. Another is that with a little
    > care it is easy to run multiple X servers on the same box.


    One of the nice things about gdm, as opposed to the older xdm, is that you
    can turn it off with /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gdm stop. Then set
    gdm_enable="NO" in /etc/rc.conf and you're ready for yoyo-mode while you
    futz with hardware. Or just stick to single-user mode while in yoyo
    mode. That's not business as usual, in my book, though. I want my
    workstation to "just work", so gdm is good for me.

    I'm curious: under what circumstances is running more than one X server on
    the same box a win? Are you remoting them with vnc? I've never
    understood why that might be preferable to just running remote X servers.
    In my experience the vnc experience is ugly.

    Cheers,

    --
    Andrew


  16. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:56:35 +0000, Lars Eighner wrote:

    > Many people (that is, I) use freeBSD because it still has a useful set of
    > textmode tool because we (that is, I) hate GUIs. However, UTF-8 was
    > invented to break all of the textmode tools, so I may be stuck with Windoz
    > after all.


    Well, I use text mode tools all the time: a workstation aint a
    workstation without a couple of terminal windows open :-). That (IMO) is
    orthogonal to whether my workstation fires up with a GUI login requester
    or a command line. My headless servers are pure text, of course.

    I don't get your UTF-8 comment, though. UTF-8 was explicitly developed
    (by the Bell Labs plan-9 guys) to maintain compatability with textmode
    tools, and as far as I can tell it does that reasonably well. Certainly
    better than UTF-16 which is what you'll find on your Windoz boxes.

    Examples of UTF-8 escape sequences seem pretty few and far between on my
    system, even where they're allowed/expected (XML and Java source, for
    example). I guess that there's more in non-english environments, but I
    would imagine that some of the old text tools would have trouble there
    already.

    Cheers,

    --
    Andrew


  17. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:26:26 +1000
    Andrew Reilly wrote:

    > I'm curious: under what circumstances is running more than one X server on
    > the same box a win?


    Running GUI sessions for multiple users, also good for playing with
    new window manglers.

    --
    C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
    The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
    You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
    | http://www.sohara.org/

  18. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:31:54 +1000
    Andrew Reilly wrote:

    > I don't get your UTF-8 comment, though. UTF-8 was explicitly developed
    > (by the Bell Labs plan-9 guys) to maintain compatability with textmode
    > tools,


    The issue with UTF-8 on FreeBSD is that the console does not
    support it, xterms do support it pretty well of course.

    --
    C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
    The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
    You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
    | http://www.sohara.org/

  19. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    In our last episode,
    ,
    the lovely and talented Andrew Reilly
    broadcast on comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:

    > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:56:35 +0000, Lars Eighner wrote:


    >> Many people (that is, I) use freeBSD because it still has a useful set of
    >> textmode tool because we (that is, I) hate GUIs. However, UTF-8 was
    >> invented to break all of the textmode tools, so I may be stuck with Windoz
    >> after all.


    > Well, I use text mode tools all the time: a workstation aint a
    > workstation without a couple of terminal windows open :-).


    The point of text mode is to 1) avoid GUI fonts not one of which is as
    legible as VGA fonts for similar amounts of information, 2) avoid pointing
    devices which are hiddeous beyound description, 3) be able to work without
    taking hands off the keyboard --- and 'keyboard shortcuts' are a complete
    fraud, never fully implemented. A terminal window in a GUI is not text
    mode. Haveing a few terminal windows open in a GUI is not the samething as
    having a few (virtual) terminals open.


    > That (IMO) is orthogonal to whether my workstation fires up with a GUI
    > login requester or a command line. My headless servers are pure text, of
    > course.


    > I don't get your UTF-8 comment, though. UTF-8 was explicitly developed
    > (by the Bell Labs plan-9 guys) to maintain compatability with textmode
    > tools


    Well, it doesn't. It breaks just about everything. Plus it wastes all the
    extra bytes that were handled perfectly well by iso-8859-1. It's like
    trying read zip file verbatim.

    >, and as far as I can tell it does that reasonably well. Certainly
    > better than UTF-16 which is what you'll find on your Windoz boxes.


    > Examples of UTF-8 escape sequences seem pretty few and far between on my
    > system, even where they're allowed/expected (XML and Java source, for
    > example). I guess that there's more in non-english environments, but I
    > would imagine that some of the old text tools would have trouble there
    > already.


    All of my core applications handled Latin1 just fine. Most of them don't
    handle UTF8 at all, mostly because there aren't any UTF8 fonts (laying aside
    the issue of the wasted bytes).

    --
    Lars Eighner
    Countdown: 549 days to go.
    Owing to massive spam from googlegroups, I do not see most posts from there.

  20. Re: Nub question: FreeBSD is graphic or text based?

    Hi Lars,

    >>>>> "Lars" == Lars Eighner writes:


    Lars> The point of text mode is to 1) avoid GUI fonts not one of which is as
    Lars> legible as VGA fonts for similar amounts of information, 2) avoid pointing
    Lars> devices which are hiddeous beyound description, 3) be able to work without
    Lars> taking hands off the keyboard --- and 'keyboard shortcuts' are a complete
    Lars> fraud, never fully implemented. A terminal window in a GUI is not text
    Lars> mode. Haveing a few terminal windows open in a GUI is not the samething as
    Lars> having a few (virtual) terminals open.

    Try to use uxterm (UTF-8 enables xterm) with larswm as a window
    manager. There is not really any reason to use a mouse then - you
    can do pretty much everything you want without a mouse even though
    you are running in X. There are even a few good fonts to use.

    In my opinion a good window manager makes all the difference, and
    nowadays emacs also behaves quite well with unicode. So what else
    do you need? :-)

    'Andreas

    --
    Wherever I lay my .emacs, there's my $HOME.

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