200GB IDE disk on old system - BSD

This is a discussion on 200GB IDE disk on old system - BSD ; I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the real disk size? I looked into the fdisk manpage. The ...

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Thread: 200GB IDE disk on old system

  1. 200GB IDE disk on old system

    I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    real disk size?

    I looked into the fdisk manpage. The only stuff I
    found there does not seem relevant like CHS parameters.
    --
    Dipl.-Math. Wilhelm Bernhard Kloke
    Institut fuer Arbeitsphysiologie an der Universitaet Dortmund
    Ardeystrasse 67, D-44139 Dortmund, Tel. 0231-1084-257
    PGP: http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund...b/mypublic.key

  2. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke (wb@arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de) wrote:
    > I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    > more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    > real disk size?


    What mainboard do you have? My good old P55T2P4(?) had no problems with big
    disks after a BIOS update.

    HTH, Helmut

    --
    Please do not feed my mailbox, Swen still does his job well


  3. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    On 2007-03-23, Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    > more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    > real disk size?
    >
    > I looked into the fdisk manpage. The only stuff I
    > found there does not seem relevant like CHS parameters.


    What about making your root filesystem reside on the first parts of
    the disk so biosroutines can load the kernel? Then the kernelroutines for
    your controller can see all of the disk. That's how I do it on a
    Pentium2 here, which only sees the first 8 gigs of the disk.

    Ide drive (used for boot since the scsicontroller can't boot :

    rumrunner@ulv:~$ fdisk /dev/ad0
    ******* Working on device /dev/ad0 *******
    parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are:
    cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)

    Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1
    parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are:
    cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)

    Media sector size is 512
    Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1
    Information from DOS bootblock is:
    The data for partition 1 is:
    sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD)
    start 63, size 312576642 (152625 Meg), flag 80 (active)
    beg: cyl 0/ head 1/ sector 1;
    end: cyl 1023/ head 254/ sector 63


    Scsi drive, most partitions except boot :

    rumrunner@ulv:~$ fdisk /dev/da0
    ******* Working on device /dev/da0 *******
    parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are:
    cylinders=70149 heads=64 sectors/track=32 (2048 blks/cyl)

    Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1
    parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are:
    cylinders=70149 heads=64 sectors/track=32 (2048 blks/cyl)

    Media sector size is 512
    Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1
    Information from DOS bootblock is:
    The data for partition 1 is:
    sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD)
    start 63, size 143653167 (70143 Meg), flag 80 (active)
    beg: cyl 0/ head 1/ sector 1;
    end: cyl 1023/ head 254/ sector 63

    Bsdlabel for root on idedrive (small enough to be able to load kernels
    from biosroutines) :

    rumrunner@ulv:~$ bsdlabel /dev/ad0s1
    # /dev/ad0s1:
    8 partitions:
    # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
    a: 491520 0 4.2BSD 2048 16384 30728


    Interesting parts of df -h :

    rumrunner@ulv:~$ df -h
    Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
    /dev/ad0s1a 232M 55M 159M 26% /


    This works very good. Long time ago, this machine ran linux with only one
    partition. It worked until a newly compiled kernel was stored at blocks
    above 8 gig, then I couldn't boot it.

    Hope that helps
    Regards

    --
    _
    //
    _ //
    \\ //
    \\//
    \/

    Eivind E

  4. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Helmut Schneider schrieb:
    > Wilhelm B. Kloke (wb@arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de) wrote:
    >> I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    >> more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    >> real disk size?

    >
    > What mainboard do you have? My good old P55T2P4(?) had no problems with big
    > disks after a BIOS update.


    It is an Epox Socket 7 board (MVG3 or so). On the Epox site it is not listed
    anymore, so a BIOS update is not possible without finding some other source.
    I don't need to boot from this disk, so, lastly it is of little relevance
    what the BIOS thinks. The problem is that I need a way to ignore the
    wrong information from BIOS. I could even consider using GPT partitions on
    the disk (which I have to learn about anyway, as I want to netboot my
    MacMini to FreeBSD some day). But, "gpt create" also uses the wrong
    BIOS data.
    --
    Dipl.-Math. Wilhelm Bernhard Kloke
    Institut fuer Arbeitsphysiologie an der Universitaet Dortmund
    Ardeystrasse 67, D-44139 Dortmund, Tel. 0231-1084-257
    PGP: http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund...b/mypublic.key

  5. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Eivind E schrieb:
    >
    > rumrunner@ulv:~$ fdisk /dev/ad0
    > ******* Working on device /dev/ad0 *******
    > parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are:
    > cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)
    >
    > Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1
    > parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are:
    > cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)


    Presumably you have written the MBR with a different OS in the first
    time, or got a disk with a valid MBRi from the vendor.
    OK, I try this way, too. 1st try Linux, 2nd Windows.
    If this should work, it is still a pity that FreeBSD doesn't have usable
    tools to do the work natively.

  6. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    In article ,
    Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    >Helmut Schneider schrieb:
    >> Wilhelm B. Kloke (wb@arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de) wrote:
    >>> I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    >>> more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    >>> real disk size?

    >>
    >> What mainboard do you have? My good old P55T2P4(?) had no problems with big
    >> disks after a BIOS update.

    >
    >It is an Epox Socket 7 board (MVG3 or so). On the Epox site it is not listed
    >anymore, so a BIOS update is not possible without finding some other source.
    >I don't need to boot from this disk, so, lastly it is of little relevance
    >what the BIOS thinks. The problem is that I need a way to ignore the
    >wrong information from BIOS. I could even consider using GPT partitions on
    >the disk (which I have to learn about anyway, as I want to netboot my
    >MacMini to FreeBSD some day). But, "gpt create" also uses the wrong
    >BIOS data.


    I'm running a 120gig 'master drive ond secondary controller', on an old
    COMPAQ Persario that has a claimed bios limit of 8.45gigs. FreeBSD 6.2
    recognizes the full capacity, but, just to be safe, i setup several 'fdisk'
    slices, and made the first one 8 gigs.

    Using 'sysinstall' to create the fdisk partition, and then the BSD labels,
    it did pick up the actual drive geometry, declared that that was 'not a
    reasonable geometry', scaled up the number of heads, and took the number of
    cylinders down proportionately. Seems to work O, although i'e got somewhere
    over a megabyte of 'unclaimable' space at the end of the disk -- it's less
    than what FreeBSD "thinks" is one cylinder, thus it can't allocate it into
    a slice.

  7. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Begin
    On 2007-03-23, Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    [using a 200GB disk with an old systemboard]
    > Eivind E schrieb:
    > If this should work, it is still a pity that FreeBSD doesn't have usable
    > tools to do the work natively.


    Well, *somebody* needs to write them. Do we have a volunteer?


    The last time I had to deal with problems like this was getting through
    the 528MB barrier. Once I understood the problem, making sure the stuff
    needed for booting was well before that was basically all there was to
    it. I don't know if this issue needs further trickery.


    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  8. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    > more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    > real disk size?


    Yes, boot FreeBSD and find out what it thinks.

    No, seriously, what the BIOS thinks about the drive is only relevant if
    a) you plan to boot from the disk
    b) FreeBSD also thinks wrongly about the size of the disk

    I am using several old machines ith bios limitations on disk size and
    large disks.
    Normally, it is not a problem.
    - if you want to boot from the disk, the boot loader and root partition
    must be within the size limit that the bios can accept
    - a message about "geometry mismatch" can be ignored if you only use the
    disk for FreeBSD (ie. no dual boot)

    Note: there are a few systems where the hardware (disk controller)
    doesn't support large disks (48 bit LBA). On such systems, nothing you
    do in FreeBSD (or another operating system) will help.

    Normally, I just install the large disk, reboot the system (into
    FreeBSD) and install / use the large disk.
    --
    Torfinn Ingolfsen,
    Norway

  9. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
    > - a message about "geometry mismatch" can be ignored if you only use the
    > disk for FreeBSD (ie. no dual boot)
    >


    And even in most cases when you intend to boot several OSes on the disk.
    On my home machine i had Win98, WinXP, Linux and FreeBSD all booting in
    spite FreeBSD unhappy about geometry mismatch. I think the only one
    which could have been unbootable was Win98, but it was the first one on
    the disk. The others don't have any problem booting in linear mode (LBA)
    and could not care less about c/h/s.


    --

    Michel TALON


  10. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:32:42 +0000, Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:

    > I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    > more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    > real disk size?
    >
    > I looked into the fdisk manpage. The only stuff I
    > found there does not seem relevant like CHS parameters.


    Although the box my drives are in now is different, when I set it up it
    was an old AMD K6/2-450. I used a 40GB drive as the boot drive,
    supposedly the most the BIOS could recognise. I added 120GB and 300GB
    drives one at a time as needed/acquired. My solution was to set the BIOS
    to "NONE" for those drives and let FreeNSD find them itself.

    --
    DaveG

    "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt
    up after being drunk all night." Isaac Asimov


  11. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Helmut Schneider wrote:

    [snip]
    >
    > What mainboard do you have? My good old P55T2P4(?) had no problems with
    > big disks after a BIOS update.
    >
    > HTH, Helmut
    >

    LOL!
    My trusty old P55T2P4 is still in service as a gateway/pf firewall box with
    a K6-2 running at 500MHz (overclocked) and 128MB Ram. IIRC before the BIOS
    update it maxed out at 8GB and after there was still something like a 137GB
    limit with the system BIOS. Sticking an old Promise controller in there for
    ATA-66 speed drive support and changing the BIOS boot order from "IDE"
    (onboard) to "SCSI" (plugin card) took care of that.

    -Jason


  12. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    On 2007-03-23, Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:

    > I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    > more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    > real disk size?
    >
    > I looked into the fdisk manpage. The only stuff I
    > found there does not seem relevant like CHS parameters.


    Just keep the root filesystem below the 1024 cylinder cutoff.

    --

    John (john@os2.dhs.org)

  13. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb:
    > Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    >> I want to put a 200GB into my old AMD K6 system. The BIOS does not support
    >> more than 32GB. Is there a way to persuade FreeBSD to accept the
    >> real disk size?

    >
    > Yes, boot FreeBSD and find out what it thinks.


    FreeBSD 6.2 thinks 32GB is disk size.

    I partitioned the disk into 20,80,10 and 90 GB partitions. Now, FreeBSD
    fdisk shows these partitions, but still reports the disk as having
    655xx cylinders, making up 32GB.

    > Note: there are a few systems where the hardware (disk controller)
    > doesn't support large disks (48 bit LBA). On such systems, nothing you
    > do in FreeBSD (or another operating system) will help.


    This is one point I want to know about. Does the controller really need
    to know about lba48? Presumably, this is only implented in software
    protocol.

    There is one other issue I found out. It seems to matter whehter the disk
    is put first or second on the cable. I have not enough hardware knowledge
    how master/slave selection is done using cable select. The only
    way I can think of is that the plugs may have different pins removed.
    Am I right?
    --
    Dipl.-Math. Wilhelm Bernhard Kloke
    Institut fuer Arbeitsphysiologie an der Universitaet Dortmund
    Ardeystrasse 67, D-44139 Dortmund, Tel. 0231-1084-257
    PGP: http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund...b/mypublic.key

  14. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > FreeBSD 6.2 thinks 32GB is disk size.


    Show us. Do a 'dmesg | grep ad' an copy the output here.

    > I partitioned the disk into 20,80,10 and 90 GB partitions. Now, FreeBSD
    > fdisk shows these partitions, but still reports the disk as having
    > 655xx cylinders, making up 32GB.


    Don't talk about the cylinders, tell us what FreeBSD reports.

    > This is one point I want to know about. Does the controller really need
    > to know about lba48? Presumably, this is only implented in software
    > protocol.


    You presume too much :-)
    For more info about LBA, see the wikipedia article
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing

    and the links in that article.

    > There is one other issue I found out. It seems to matter whehter the disk
    > is put first or second on the cable. I have not enough hardware knowledge
    > how master/slave selection is done using cable select. The only
    > way I can think of is that the plugs may have different pins removed.
    > Am I right?


    And now you tell us that you have another drive on the same cable? You
    should have told us about that drive earlier.
    Is this disk (the old one) smaller than 32GB?

    If you suspect the cable, try another cable.
    --
    Torfinn Ingolfsen,
    Norway

  15. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb:
    > Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    >> FreeBSD 6.2 thinks 32GB is disk size.

    >
    > Show us. Do a 'dmesg | grep ad' an copy the output here.


    ad0: 19464MB at ata0-master UDMA66
    ad1: 32253MB at ata0-slave UDMA66

    >> I partitioned the disk into 20,80,10 and 90 GB partitions. Now, FreeBSD
    >> fdisk shows these partitions, but still reports the disk as having
    >> 655xx cylinders, making up 32GB.

    >
    > Don't talk about the cylinders, tell us what FreeBSD reports.


    /sys/dev/ata 0$ fdisk ad1
    ******* Working on device /dev/ad1 *******
    parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are:
    cylinders=65531 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)

    Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1
    parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are:
    cylinders=65531 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)

    Media sector size is 512
    Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1
    Information from DOS bootblock is:
    The data for partition 1 is:
    sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD)
    start 63, size 39078081 (19081 Meg), flag 0
    beg: cyl 0/ head 1/ sector 1;
    end: cyl 1023/ head 255/ sector 63
    The data for partition 2 is:
    sysid 131 (0x83),(Linux native)
    start 39078144, size 136733184 (66764 Meg), flag 0
    beg: cyl 1023/ head 255/ sector 63;
    end: cyl 1023/ head 255/ sector 63
    The data for partition 3 is:
    sysid 131 (0x83),(Linux native)
    start 175811328, size 31272192 (15269 Meg), flag 0
    beg: cyl 1023/ head 255/ sector 63;
    end: cyl 1023/ head 255/ sector 63
    The data for partition 4 is:
    sysid 64 (0x40),(VENIX 286)
    start 207083520, size 183633408 (89664 Meg), flag 0
    beg: cyl 640/ head 0/ sector 1;
    end: cyl 543/ head 15/ sector 63

    >
    >> This is one point I want to know about. Does the controller really need
    >> to know about lba48? Presumably, this is only implented in software
    >> protocol.

    >
    > You presume too much :-)


    OK, I wasn't precise enough. Does the ata interface of the computer
    need to know about this? BTW, it is VIA 82C596B.

    atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x30


    > For more info about LBA, see the wikipedia article
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing
    >
    > and the links in that article.
    >
    > And now you tell us that you have another drive on the same cable? You
    > should have told us about that drive earlier.


    Maybe.

    > Is this disk (the old one) smaller than 32GB?


    Of course, it is.

    > If you suspect the cable, try another cable.


    I don't suspect the cable. I am just ignorant about technical details.

    Accessing slices other than the first (with newfs) results in I/O-errors.

    Next, I am giving Linux a try to write the disk 4th partition of the disk.
    --
    Dipl.-Math. Wilhelm Bernhard Kloke
    Institut fuer Arbeitsphysiologie an der Universitaet Dortmund
    Ardeystrasse 67, D-44139 Dortmund, Tel. 0231-1084-257
    PGP: http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund...b/mypublic.key

  16. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke schrieb:
    >
    > Accessing slices other than the first (with newfs) results in I/O-errors.
    >
    > Next, I am giving Linux a try to write the disk 4th partition of the disk.


    Done. IMHO we can take for sure that the hardware works as expected.

    Even if a BIOS update were available, I would prefer not to touch
    the BIOS as the risk of damage is a lot more dangerous than moving
    to a different OS. Though, in this case I would prefer DrangonflyBSD (which
    also doesn't accept the configuration) or Plan9 for this system.
    --
    Dipl.-Math. Wilhelm Bernhard Kloke
    Institut fuer Arbeitsphysiologie an der Universitaet Dortmund
    Ardeystrasse 67, D-44139 Dortmund, Tel. 0231-1084-257
    PGP: http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund...b/mypublic.key

  17. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb:
    > > Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > >> FreeBSD 6.2 thinks 32GB is disk size.

    > >
    > > Show us. Do a 'dmesg | grep ad' an copy the output here.

    >
    > ad0: 19464MB at ata0-master UDMA66
    > ad1: 32253MB at ata0-slave UDMA66


    This means that FreeBSD ata driver sees ad1 as a 32Gigs disk. You can do
    nothing against that, i fear. You cannot exploit more than 32 Gigs on
    FreeBSD with that disk. I thinks that this is totally independant of the
    BIOS, it is the disk as probed by the FreeBSD driver.


    --

    Michel TALON


  18. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > OK, I wasn't precise enough. Does the ata interface of the computer
    > need to know about this? BTW, it is VIA 82C596B.


    yes, it does.

    > atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x30


    Hmm, there is at least one PR on that controller:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing

    However, it doesn't relate to size.
    --
    Torfinn Ingolfsen,
    Norway

  19. Re: 200GB IDE disk on old system

    On 2007-03-23, Wilhelm B. Kloke wrote:
    > Eivind E schrieb:
    >>
    >> rumrunner@ulv:~$ fdisk /dev/ad0
    >> ******* Working on device /dev/ad0 *******
    >> parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are:
    >> cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)
    >>
    >> Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1
    >> parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are:
    >> cylinders=310101 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl)

    >
    > Presumably you have written the MBR with a different OS in the first
    > time, or got a disk with a valid MBRi from the vendor.
    > OK, I try this way, too. 1st try Linux, 2nd Windows.
    > If this should work, it is still a pity that FreeBSD doesn't have usable
    > tools to do the work natively.


    Yes, the computer ran Linux before on the same disks. Both disks changed from
    several partitions to just one (to use bsdlabels instead) when I installed
    Freebsd though.

    Just in case I set up some other old computers, can I expect the same
    problems like the OP if disks aren't partitioned in another OS first?
    (Well, in that case, I guess I now know one thing linux livecds are good
    for).

    Regards
    --
    _
    //
    _ //
    \\ //
    \\//
    \/

    Eivind E

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