OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys? - BSD

This is a discussion on OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys? - BSD ; http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.'' -- Due ...

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Thread: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

  1. OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

    ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
    point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.''
    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  2. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    Ignoramus30183 wrote:
    > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >
    > ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    > that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
    > point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.''


    IMHO, Linus is no better than what he says above. Kernel debuggers are
    considered "bad" in place of printf all over the place - they both have
    their place, but to say one should not be used is just criminal. Maybe
    he can live in his own dream world and leave the rest of us to solve
    everyday issues. Oh, and the damn Linux SCSI subsystem is just wrong -
    what ever happened to true engineered solutions based on standards such
    as SCSI CAM (FreeBSD, Tru64 5.x)? That pretty much sums up the whole
    Linux experience - hodge-podge code weanies with their head stuck
    somewhere making guesses and partial solutions without caring about
    engineering rigor or standards.

    Getting back to real work now.

  3. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    Ignoramus30183 writes:
    > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >
    > ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in


    Sigh.



    --
    Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
    -----
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
    reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford


  4. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    * Ignoramus30183 peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >
    > ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    > that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
    > point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.''


    Good old Linus. He's an asshole of the good kind.

    --
    Q: How many Zen masters does it take to screw in a light bulb?
    A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master stays out
    of the way.

  5. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    * Robert Melson peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    > Ignoramus30183 writes:
    >> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >>
    >> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in

    >
    > Sigh.
    >
    >


    Here's Linus' post:

    Btw, and you may not like this, since you are so focused on security,
    one reason I refuse to bother with the whole security circus is that
    I think it glorifies - and thus encourages - the wrong behavior.

    It makes "heroes" out of security people, as if the people who don't
    just fix normal bugs aren't as important.

    In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just
    because there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular
    security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.

    Security people are often the black-and-white kind of people that I
    can't stand. I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating
    monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on
    security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else
    matters to them.

    To me, security is important. But it's no less important than
    everything *else* that is also important!

    By the way, I've recently installed the 2.6.25.10 kernel, and it
    boots to the login screen noticeably more quickly.

    --
    We ARE as gods and might as well get good at it.
    -- Whole Earth Catalog

  6. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    On Jul 16, 5:37*pm, Linonut wrote:

    > * *To me, security is important. But it's no less important than
    > * *everything *else* that is also important!


    Linus doesn't know how to prioritize. Typical of a socialist.

    >
    > --
    > We ARE as gods and might as well get good at it.
    > * * * * * * * * -- Whole Earth Catalog


    Hubris. Inconsistent with your 1% market share. You should be
    humble, not arrogant, but as a psychological defense mechanism I
    understand your motivation to be arrogant about Linux.

    RL

  7. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Linonut on Thursday 17 July 2008 00:35 : \____

    > * Ignoramus30183 peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >>
    >> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    >> that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
    >> point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.''

    >
    > Good old Linus. He's an asshole of the good kind.


    Another asshole might be that who crossposts to BSD groups for flaming.

    Linus mailed me the other day. He's rarely rude, but when he *is*, then people
    have it highlighted. It's the same with politicians.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 143 total, 2 running, 141 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

    iEYEARECAAYFAkh+9/0ACgkQU4xAY3RXLo6WAACfYZ1qQgGlvxZfqLwUfsZikpjE
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  8. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?


    "raylopez99" wrote in message
    news:809a3d3d-ce6c-4603-bb90-a9bc1736c287@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    On Jul 16, 5:37 pm, Linonut wrote:

    > To me, security is important. But it's no less important than
    > everything *else* that is also important!


    Linus doesn't know how to prioritize. Typical of a socialist.

    >
    > --
    > We ARE as gods and might as well get good at it.
    > -- Whole Earth Catalog


    Hubris. Inconsistent with your 1% market share. You should be
    humble, not arrogant, but as a psychological defense mechanism I
    understand your motivation to be arrogant about Linux.

    RL

    ================================

    Reading Lopez on 'masturbating monkeys', I think
    I see what his problem is that leads to the long
    thread,'For the SEVENTH time....'

    It's himself: *Lopez*.

    And maybe he's not getting quite the response he
    seems to want, because the answer to it is
    simply *all over* cyberspace.

    Titeotwawki -- mha [cola 2008 Jly 17]



  9. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    Roy Schestowitz writes:

    > ____/ Linonut on Thursday 17 July 2008 00:35 : \____
    >
    >> * Ignoramus30183 peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >>>
    >>> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    >>> that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
    >>> point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.''

    >>
    >> Good old Linus. He's an asshole of the good kind.

    >
    > Another asshole might be that who crossposts to BSD groups for flaming.
    >
    > Linus mailed me the other day. He's rarely rude, but when he *is*, then people
    > have it highlighted. It's the same with politicians.


    I bet he highlighted it so brightly your fat head almost melted.

  10. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:57:56 +0200, Hadron wrote:


    >> Linus mailed me the other day. He's rarely rude, but when he *is*, then people
    >> have it highlighted. It's the same with politicians.

    >
    > I bet he highlighted it so brightly your fat head almost melted.


    Linux probably asked Schestowitz to never, ever ever mention his name in a
    post again because he, Linus, does not wish to be associated with a loon
    such as Roy Schestowitz.

    I know if I were Linus, that's what I would do.

    Roy Schestowitz is the Pat Robertson of the Linux community.
    He scares away more potential converts than he converts to the Linux
    religion.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    On 2008-07-16, Ignoramus30183 wrote:

    > ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys...."


    Actually, OBSD is ok, it's that herd of cretins the continue to respond to
    no-ray-of-lope troll that are the m/m's.

    nb

  12. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:Zrwfk.2382$bN2.1544@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
    > * Robert Melson peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    > > In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    > > Ignoramus30183 writes:
    > >> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    > >>
    > >> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in

    > >
    > > Sigh.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Here's Linus' post:
    >
    > Btw, and you may not like this, since you are so focused on security,
    > one reason I refuse to bother with the whole security circus is that
    > I think it glorifies - and thus encourages - the wrong behavior.
    >
    > It makes "heroes" out of security people, as if the people who don't
    > just fix normal bugs aren't as important.
    >
    > In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just
    > because there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular
    > security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    > "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.
    >


    Well, sooner or later Linus's credit card number is going to be stolen
    out of some server that he bought something online from, due to a
    security hole, or his medical records are going to be stolen due to
    crackers getting access through a security hole, or some such, then
    he might change his tune.

    His attitude is typical of someone who is building a server for his
    own amusement. It is not typical for someone who is building a
    server that's use will incur a -large- amount of liability for whatever
    organization is using it.

    This is why people still buy IBM's products for these kinds of applications.
    Not because IBM is any better, it's not. It is because if someone
    has a security break in on an IBM system IBM goes ballistic until
    they have assured themselves that the security break is NOT due
    to a hole in their products, but instead due to some admin's configuration
    error. Which is about all you can reasonably ask from a vendor.

    Linus's comments are the exact reason why he is NOT managing the
    most popular Linux distributions used for business applications. It
    is also why virtually all the operational decisions dealing with the Linux
    standard have been delegated to other people, and he only gets asked
    to make political decisions regarding competing technical arguments
    within Linux.

    There's nothing really wrong with such a position and the Linux
    movement -could- do a -lot- worse for a figurehead. Like, for example,
    RMS.

    Ted



  13. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:12 -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

    > "Linonut" wrote in message
    > news:Zrwfk.2382$bN2.1544@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
    >> * Robert Melson peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    >>> Ignoramus30183 writes:
    >>>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >>>>
    >>>> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    >>>
    >>> Sigh.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Here's Linus' post:
    >>
    >> Btw, and you may not like this, since you are so focused on security,
    >> one reason I refuse to bother with the whole security circus is that
    >> I think it glorifies - and thus encourages - the wrong behavior.
    >>
    >> It makes "heroes" out of security people, as if the people who don't
    >> just fix normal bugs aren't as important.
    >>
    >> In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just
    >> because there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular
    >> security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    >> "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.
    >>

    >
    > Well, sooner or later Linus's credit card number is going to be stolen
    > out of some server that he bought something online from, due to a
    > security hole, or his medical records are going to be stolen due to
    > crackers getting access through a security hole, or some such, then
    > he might change his tune.


    I agree with what you are saying Ted but I think it depends upon what the
    system is being used for.
    Personally, I feel that a tight security model should be the foundation of
    any operating system.
    BSD of course is designed that way as is Linux.
    Windows is not.

    Windows tried to be everything to everybody, IOW backward compatibility
    with DOS Win3.x and so forth and has made some serious comprimises along
    the way.
    From the outside it looks like Linux is doing the same somewhat.
    IOW eye candy appears to be the focus right now so something is ultimately
    going to suffer.


    > His attitude is typical of someone who is building a server for his
    > own amusement. It is not typical for someone who is building a
    > server that's use will incur a -large- amount of liability for whatever
    > organization is using it.


    Reading the message I got the impression he was talking about a quasi
    desktop/server, much like what you are saying Ted.

    > This is why people still buy IBM's products for these kinds of applications.
    > Not because IBM is any better, it's not. It is because if someone
    > has a security break in on an IBM system IBM goes ballistic until
    > they have assured themselves that the security break is NOT due
    > to a hole in their products, but instead due to some admin's configuration
    > error. Which is about all you can reasonably ask from a vendor.


    Same for Cisco, Netapp, Nortel and a number of others.

    > Linus's comments are the exact reason why he is NOT managing the
    > most popular Linux distributions used for business applications. It
    > is also why virtually all the operational decisions dealing with the Linux
    > standard have been delegated to other people, and he only gets asked
    > to make political decisions regarding competing technical arguments
    > within Linux.


    I can't really say.

    > There's nothing really wrong with such a position and the Linux
    > movement -could- do a -lot- worse for a figurehead. Like, for example,
    > RMS.


    OMG.
    What a loony toon RMS is.

    I think it boils down to Linux trying to be Windows, or better, in
    regards to everything such as eye candy, desktop, hardware support, wine
    etc.
    Something has to give and focus has to be limited.

    BSD seems much more conservative, however the hardware support for cutting
    edge devices seems lacking at least last time I looked.
    The focus, security, is top notch however and maybe that's the trade off
    that the BSD community is making.



    > Ted



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  14. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    * Ted Mittelstaedt peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linus's comments are the exact reason why he is NOT managing the
    > most popular Linux distributions used for business applications.


    Wrong. The reason he isn't "managing the most popular Linux
    distributions used for business applications"?

    He doesn't want to.

    > It is also why virtually all the operational decisions dealing with
    > the Linux standard have been delegated to other people, and he only
    > gets asked to make political decisions regarding competing technical
    > arguments within Linux.


    I must admit this is a line of trolling FUD I have not encountered
    before.

    > There's nothing really wrong with such a position and the Linux
    > movement -could- do a -lot- worse for a figurehead. Like, for example,
    > RMS.


    What's wrong with RMS? Like Linus, he has his quirks. But, also like
    Linus, by pushing his ideals /hard/, he has had a /great/ and /positive/
    impact on the world of software.

    The world of computing owes a great debt to both.

    --
    Bride, n.:
    A woman with a fine prospect of happiness behind her.
    -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

  15. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > What a loony toon RMS is.




    How *dare* you?!?! Don't you know that Stallman /invented/ Linux?




    Yes, he's a loony who thinks that fascism == freedom. Whoo-hoo.

  16. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    Ted Mittelstaedt :

    > Linus's comments are the exact reason why he is NOT managing the
    > most popular Linux distributions used for business applications.


    And this was told by ... ? Or is this comment just as much FUD as the FUD
    you're whining about?

    > It is also why virtually all the operational decisions dealing with the
    > Linux standard have been delegated to other people, and he only gets asked
    > to make political decisions regarding competing technical arguments
    > within Linux.


    If the transition to git was not an "operational" decision, what was it
    then? Perhaps a "minor administrative" one?

    By the way, Morton only accepts those patches, that Linus has explicitly
    agreed on at the LKML. Things, that he does not agree to, won't be
    accepted in the mm-tree and thus will never be merged with the official
    kernel tree.

    --
    Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.
    (Rosa Luxemburg)

  17. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
    > "Linonut" wrote in message
    > news:Zrwfk.2382$bN2.1544@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
    >> * Robert Melson peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    >>> Ignoramus30183 writes:
    >>>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >>>>
    >>>> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    >>> Sigh.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Here's Linus' post:
    >>
    >> Btw, and you may not like this, since you are so focused on security,
    >> one reason I refuse to bother with the whole security circus is that
    >> I think it glorifies - and thus encourages - the wrong behavior.
    >>
    >> It makes "heroes" out of security people, as if the people who don't
    >> just fix normal bugs aren't as important.
    >>
    >> In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just
    >> because there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular
    >> security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    >> "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.
    >>

    >
    > Well, sooner or later Linus's credit card number is going to be stolen
    > out of some server that he bought something online from, due to a
    > security hole, or his medical records are going to be stolen due to
    > crackers getting access through a security hole, or some such, then
    > he might change his tune.
    >
    > His attitude is typical of someone who is building a server for his
    > own amusement. It is not typical for someone who is building a
    > server that's use will incur a -large- amount of liability for whatever
    > organization is using it.
    >
    > This is why people still buy IBM's products for these kinds of applications.
    > Not because IBM is any better, it's not. It is because if someone
    > has a security break in on an IBM system IBM goes ballistic until
    > they have assured themselves that the security break is NOT due
    > to a hole in their products, but instead due to some admin's configuration
    > error. Which is about all you can reasonably ask from a vendor.
    >
    > Linus's comments are the exact reason why he is NOT managing the
    > most popular Linux distributions used for business applications. It
    > is also why virtually all the operational decisions dealing with the Linux
    > standard have been delegated to other people, and he only gets asked
    > to make political decisions regarding competing technical arguments
    > within Linux.
    >
    > There's nothing really wrong with such a position and the Linux
    > movement -could- do a -lot- worse for a figurehead. Like, for example,
    > RMS.
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >


    +1

  18. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?

    On 2008-07-20, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
    >> security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    >> "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.
    >>

    >
    > Well, sooner or later Linus's credit card number is going to be stolen
    > out of some server that he bought something online from, due to a
    > security hole, or his medical records are going to be stolen due to
    > crackers getting access through a security hole, or some such, then
    > he might change his tune.


    The problem is that you can make such an extreme worst case scenario out of
    everything:

    - The heart-lung machine that stops because of a kernel panic.
    - the same heart lung machine that was configured due to a GUI bug.

    make a nice story out of it, lots of noise, end of world scenario etc etc..

    I somewhat agree with Linus general statement that obsessing and
    glorifying that specific area (security) is not the way to go.

    But IMHO that is not OpenBSD's fault, and they are doing the more useful
    (and ungrateful) work in that area. It should be more targeted against the
    "security research" which has become a selffurfulling industry.

  19. Re: OpenBSD people == Masturbating monkeys?


    "Ted Mittelstaedt" wrote in message
    news:newscache$prgb4k$xha1$1@news.ipinc.net...
    >
    > "Linonut" wrote in message
    > news:Zrwfk.2382$bN2.1544@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
    >> * Robert Melson peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >> > In article <9NCdnQzJdpPEHOPVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
    >> > Ignoramus30183 writes:
    >> >> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
    >> >>
    >> >> ``I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
    >> >
    >> > Sigh.
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> Here's Linus' post:
    >>
    >> Btw, and you may not like this, since you are so focused on security,
    >> one reason I refuse to bother with the whole security circus is that
    >> I think it glorifies - and thus encourages - the wrong behavior.
    >>
    >> It makes "heroes" out of security people, as if the people who don't
    >> just fix normal bugs aren't as important.
    >>
    >> In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just
    >> because there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular
    >> security hole should be glorified or cared about as being any more
    >> "special" than a random spectacular crash due to bad locking.
    >>

    >
    > Well, sooner or later Linus's credit card number is going to be stolen
    > out of some server that he bought something online from, due to a
    > security hole, or his medical records are going to be stolen due to
    > crackers getting access through a security hole, or some such, then
    > he might change his tune.
    >
    > His attitude is typical of someone who is building a server for his
    > own amusement. It is not typical for someone who is building a
    > server that's use will incur a -large- amount of liability for whatever
    > organization is using it.


    I don't remember serious liability or consequences for *any* computer
    security breach *ever*. Do you?





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