Beginner info, the FAQ, programming... - BSD

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  1. Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    Greetings

    I have some simple questions. Maybe all i need is a direction. I am
    sending to this news groupe because it is the most active of all i
    have found, concerning FreeBSD.

    Where is the FAQ for this news groupe (not the FreeBSD documentation)?

    I wouldn't want to explain my self and write some personal info, but i
    think that way i can get the help that i need (not medical and get
    in contact with the right people. That is because, so far i have used
    MS Windows and in my following questions i will try to seek for an
    analogy, but i gues that many of you have never bothered with MS.

    What would be the comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 news group for
    FreeBSD?
    (It is a news groupe about plain C programming useing the win32 API).

    What would be the book "Programming Windows" from Charles Petzold, if
    it was for FreeBSD?
    (same as the above, only a book.)

    Few days ago i have installed DesktopBSD. I want to be able to use my
    computer as i was/am useing Windows. Except for the game play, that
    will remain on win, i need few more programs or their replacement on
    BSD to do it. VirtualDub, TMpeg Encoder, CDex and eMule are the most
    important. Any sugestions?
    Also, are there any direct-show filters on DesktopBSD or the support
    for DivX & Xvid video are hard-coded in the players?

    This things may help me, and in future others, to start useing FreeBSD
    as primary OS.

    Sory this post is maybe a bit too long. Thank you.
    Vasko


  2. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...


    wrote:
    >
    > Where is the FAQ for this news groupe (not the FreeBSD documentation)?


    There is no FAQ list for this news group. This news group discusses the
    FreeBSD operating system. For FAQ's about that, there are several options:

    On your own system:
    /usr/doc/en/books/faq

    Or on the web:
    http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/

    > What would be the comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 news group for
    > FreeBSD? (It is a news groupe about plain C programming useing the win32
    > API).


    There is none. For questions about FreeBSD you are welcome here. For
    discussing the C programming language I would suggest the newsgroup
    comp.lang.c

    > What would be the book "Programming Windows" from Charles Petzold, if
    > it was for FreeBSD? (same as the above, only a book.)


    If you wish to learn how to program in C on a "unix"-like environment, I can
    recommend the book "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Enviroment" by W.
    Richard Stevens.

    > Few days ago i have installed DesktopBSD. I want to be able to use my
    > computer as i was/am useing Windows.


    If you want to use your computer as you did, the easiest way is to reinstall
    Windows.

    Maybe if you specified what you would like to do with your computer, this
    group might be able to help. For everyday office work you can install the
    Gnome desktop environment and the excellent OpenOffice.org application
    suite, for example.

    > Except for the game play, that
    > will remain on win, i need few more programs or their replacement on
    > BSD to do it. VirtualDub, TMpeg Encoder, CDex and eMule are the most
    > important. Any sugestions?


    First of all, this is a group about FreeBSD, not necessarily for
    applications which may run on it. Would you ask questions about some random
    game on a group about the inner workings of Windows?

    However, there are several software programs that might be replacements of
    the applications you mentioned. You can see if any program at
    http://www.freebsdsoftware.org/multimedia/ might fit your needs.

    > Also, are there any direct-show filters on DesktopBSD or the support
    > for DivX & Xvid video are hard-coded in the players?


    I don't know what 'direct-show' means, but if you are looking for a media
    player I suggest checking out VLC at http://www.videolan.org/

    > This things may help me, and in future others, to start useing FreeBSD
    > as primary OS.


    The answers to your questions could have been found by searching the FreeBSD
    website and some mild use of Google.

    If you want to do multimedia and you don't have the time or capability to
    research how to get things going on FreeBSD, as a final pointer, I would
    like to show you Ubuntu Studio. It is a GNU/Linux distribution primarily
    geared towards multimedia.

    http://ubuntustudio.org/


    Buisman





  3. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    On Jan 31, 10:51 am, "Buisman" wrote:

    > There is no FAQ list for this news group.

    [snip]

    OK. I was looking for the general rules on posting here, so i could
    not offend somebody.

    > There is none. For questions about FreeBSD you are welcome here. For
    > discussing the C programming language I would suggest the newsgroup
    > comp.lang.c


    I understand. Any questions about programming on the FreeBSD platform
    go here.

    > If you wish to learn how to program in C on a "unix"-like environment, I can
    > recommend the book "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Enviroment" by W.
    > Richard Stevens.


    Thanks. I need some time to look into the book.

    > If you want to use your computer as you did, the easiest way is to reinstall
    > Windows.


    Why? Do you think that i cannot use DesktopBSD for the usual work i
    did on Windows?
    I was thinking that this is the right time to change to something else
    than MS.

    > Maybe if you specified what you would like to do with your computer, this
    > group might be able to help. For everyday office work you can install the
    > Gnome desktop environment and the excellent OpenOffice.org application
    > suite, for example.


    from least to most important.
    Listen to music and watch movies. That i know how to do in DesktopBSD.
    Connect to the eDonkey network. aMule?
    And the most frequent use of my computer i have is for converting .avi
    files into VCDs and DVDs.

    > > Except for the game play, that
    > > will remain on win, i need few more programs or their replacement on
    > > BSD to do it. VirtualDub, TMpeg Encoder, CDex and eMule are the most
    > > important. Any sugestions?

    >
    > First of all, this is a group about FreeBSD, not necessarily for
    > applications which may run on it. Would you ask questions about some random
    > game on a group about the inner workings of Windows?


    Never. But this is a misc group about FreeBSD. I was asking for a port
    or equivalent program to the programs i have listed. VirtualDub and
    TMpegEnc are the programs i mostly depend on. I was hopeing there is a
    port because:
    VirtualDub is a video capture/processing utility for 32-bit Windows
    platforms (95/98/ME/NT4/2000/XP), licensed under the GNU General
    Public License (GPL).
    (from it's page) and AviSynth is also GNU General Public License
    (GPL).
    BeSweet is freeware...
    So far i have found Avidemux to be the most appropriate solution.

    > However, there are several software programs that might be replacements of
    > the applications you mentioned. You can see if any program athttp://www.freebsdsoftware.org/multimedia/might fit your needs.


    Nice list.

    > I don't know what 'direct-show' means, but if you are looking for a media
    > player I suggest checking out VLC athttp://www.videolan.org/


    I use mostly VLC on DesktopBSD.

    > The answers to your questions could have been found by searching the FreeBSD
    > website and some mild use of Google.


    Maybe for the use of aplications, but the programming questions i had
    to post so anyone who had read the Petzoldie book could point me the
    right book for BSD. There are many books on programming in Windows,
    but i need this kind of a book for FreeBSD. Somehow i have assumed
    that there are many people here who have migrated from Windows and
    some of them were programming on the win32 API that now program on the
    FreeBSD platform.
    I gues i was wrong.
    Before installing a second OS to Windows, i did a research on the net
    on the variable solutions and i have decided to give the FreeBSD a
    head of QNX and Ubuntu. Despite the inner working differences, they
    are all some sort of Unix or Unixoid.

    >
    > If you want to do multimedia and you don't have the time or capability to
    > research how to get things going on FreeBSD, as a final pointer, I would
    > like to show you Ubuntu Studio. It is a GNU/Linux distribution primarily
    > geared towards multimedia.
    >
    > http://ubuntustudio.org/
    >
    > Buisman


    Thanks for the effort. I realy don't have the time (and perhaps the
    capability) to make a detaled research, concerning that i am not mutch
    familiar with FreeBSD, so i did what i do most of the time and that
    is: ask for help from humans via the news groups. I don't have the
    enthusiasm as i did 20 years earlier, so i just want to get it working
    the easiest way.

    Vasko

  4. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    Begin
    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:43:07 -0800 (PST),
    spacerogue5@yahoo.com wrote:
    > OK. I was looking for the general rules on posting here, so i could
    > not offend somebody.


    For tips, search for ``RFC1855'', ``Netiquette'', and so on. Reading the
    group for a bit helps figuring out how people interact here. Also, get
    a better usenet provider. Google groups gets worse all the time and even
    its archive is losing usability.


    >> There is none. For questions about FreeBSD you are welcome here. For
    >> discussing the C programming language I would suggest the newsgroup
    >> comp.lang.c

    >
    > I understand. Any questions about programming on the FreeBSD platform
    > go here.


    Unless you're doing really FreeBSD specific things you're probably better
    off in comp.lang.c or comp.unix.programmer or some place like that.

    Most programs should be written so that they can be made to run on many
    different unix systems with little effort.


    [snip]
    >> If you want to use your computer as you did, the easiest way is to reinstall
    >> Windows.

    >
    > Why? Do you think that i cannot use DesktopBSD for the usual work i
    > did on Windows? I was thinking that this is the right time to change
    > to something else than MS.


    I have no idea about DesktopBSD or PC-BSD or whatnot. I'm assuming
    FreeBSD as I understand it. I am used to do small and medium site admin
    and some development with the platform, so I like to think I understand
    it reasonably well.

    Your question implies that you want to use FreeBSD as if it was windows.
    It's not; it has an entirely different focus. If you would ask whether
    you can run programs on it, then the answer is yes. Those programs are,
    however, for the most part not the same; they'll do more or less the
    same task but many are entirely different to use.

    If you would ask whether those programs include various tools to do
    (list of tasks here) then depending on the list, the answer is likely
    yes. If, as it seems you were, you're asking how to make it dance just
    like windows dances, then the answer is no. The closest answer to that
    is ``get a mac''.

    Of course, macosx is somewhat related to FreeBSD, but they're not the
    same or equal by any stretch. In particular, macosx comes with a fancy
    graphics icing on top that is proprietary but provides much of the
    ``user experience'' that is such a selling point.

    FreeBSD in and of itself doesn't do graphics. Xwindows does that, and
    it's not even part of the base system. Worse, it'll only draw the
    windows; but to decorate and manage them you run a window manager (many
    choices available, all different) and for the full all-encompassing user
    experience delivery, you need a desktop environment (cde, kde, gnome).

    You can run desktop environments equally well on FreeBSD, NetBSD, linux,
    solaris, hp-ux, or what-have-you. So except for questions how to make
    them work on FreeBSD, you'd better ask about them in places dedicated
    to the desktop environment themselves.


    I've mentioned before that while I run X, I don't use a desktop
    environment, and I'm certainly not the only one in this group. I'm
    content with a minimal wm and lots of xterms next to the one evil
    graphical app I have trouble doing without.


    > But this is a misc group about FreeBSD. I was asking for a port or
    > equivalent program to the programs i have listed.


    Check the ports collection. Plenty of programs in there. You may want
    to read the relevant bits of _The FreeBSD Handbook_ first, to figure
    out how to use it.


    > Maybe for the use of aplications, but the programming questions i had
    > to post so anyone who had read the Petzoldie book could point me the
    > right book for BSD.


    The absolutely great and wonderful stuff that keeps on oozing out of
    redmond is entirely proprietary. While many unix systems are also,
    it was recognized long ago that some sort of open API standard would
    facilitate porting programs between unices. See there the open group[1]
    and posix, now the single unix specification (SUS).

    Unless you're digging into the FreeBSD innards, for which _The design
    and implementation of the FreeBSD operating system_ might be helpful,
    you're much better off writing SUS-compliant programs. So, the actual
    specification might help. Since C and unix are intertwined quite a bit,
    a book on the standard C library helps you quite a lot, too. Also, the
    books by the late W. Richard Stevens are must-haves. And, of course, the
    FreeBSD documentation and manpages are justifiably a point of pride for
    the project.


    [1] http://www.unix.org

    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  5. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:07:08 -0800, spacerogue5 wrote:
    > I have some simple questions. Maybe all i need is a direction. I am
    > sending to this news groupe because it is the most active of all i have
    > found, concerning FreeBSD.


    This is a reasonably active group, but it is a pale shadow of the teeming
    maelstrom that is the mailing lists. You do have to subscribe, but
    that's pretty easy, and it helps to cut down on spam.

    > Where is the FAQ for this news groupe (not the FreeBSD documentation)?


    No FAQ for the group. Groups.google.org will probably let you search for
    topics that have come up in the past. The FreeBSD mailing lists also
    have search, or you can ask google to search them.

    > I wouldn't want to explain my self and write some personal info, but i
    > think that way i can get the help that i need (not medical and get in
    > contact with the right people. That is because, so far i have used MS
    > Windows and in my following questions i will try to seek for an analogy,
    > but i gues that many of you have never bothered with MS.


    I'm afraid that the latter comment may be more true than you would
    believe. No doubt there are some who know lots about Windows and know
    about FreeBSD, but I'm not one of them....

    > What would be the comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 news group for
    > FreeBSD?
    > (It is a news groupe about plain C programming useing the win32 API).


    Programming FreeBSD is, for the most part, programming Unix. That means
    ISO C, POSIX, SUS, and if you're that way inclined, the documentation for
    your windowing toolkit of choice. The first two are covered by many
    excellent texts (the works of Stephenson are often recommended, but there
    are others.) To the extent that FreeBSD isn't Unix, you'll need the
    source and sections 2, 3, 4, and 9 of the manual. Being familiar with
    sections 1, 8 and 5 will help too. The traditional BSD software
    documentation (most of it, plus some newer works) can be found in /usr/
    share/doc. Most of that is system management/admin tutorials, but some
    of it relates to coding. Lots of add-on GNU software doesn't believe in
    formal "man" reference pages, and so you'll find all sorts of hard-to-
    fathom documentation in /usr/local/share/doc. You can get to some of it
    with the "info" command (the detailed gcc and binutils doco is in info
    format, for example.) In the end, there's always the source.

    > What would be the book "Programming Windows" from Charles Petzold, if it
    > was for FreeBSD?
    > (same as the above, only a book.)


    Probably Stephens' "Advanced Unix Programming", but Kernighan and
    Ritchie's "C" is pretty good too. Nemeth et al's "Unix System
    Administration" is a great overview of the Unix way, in my opinion.
    There's also Lehay's "Absolute FreeBSD" and the FreeBSD handbook, which
    is both on-line and in your /usr/share/doc directory. Some of the GUI
    toolkits have tutorials, but most don't even have commented header files:
    I have no idea how people figure out how to use 'em. Usualy by hacking
    on existing code that seems to do something like what you want to do, I
    suspect.

    > Few days ago i have installed DesktopBSD. I want to be able to use my
    > computer as i was/am useing Windows.


    Well, you'll need to tell us how you were using Windows, I think...

    > Except for the game play, that will
    > remain on win, i need few more programs or their replacement on BSD to
    > do it. VirtualDub, TMpeg Encoder, CDex and eMule are the most important.
    > Any sugestions?


    Those sound like multi-media things. Not really FreeBSD's strong suit,
    but have a look in the ports collection (read up on ports in the
    handbook, first) which has "audio" and "multimedia" collections, which
    might have what you're looking for.

    Once you've figured out how to use the ports collection, you'll see that
    there are "devel" (developer tools), "editors" (both programming editors
    and IDEs and office word-processors) and "lang" (programming languages:
    339 of them on my system: plenty of choice). Then there's always Java,
    which gives you netbeans and eclipse, if you like that sort of thing.
    I'm a vi and make guy, myself. (Speaking of which, BSD make, which
    FreeBSD uses by default, is slightly different from GNU make, which is
    what you'll probably find in Linux-related tutorials on-line. It's a
    prerequisite of most GNU software in the ports collection, so after
    you've installed a couple of things, it'll be on your system as "gmake".)

    > Also, are there any direct-show filters on DesktopBSD or the support for
    > DivX & Xvid video are hard-coded in the players?


    Don't know anything about that, I'm afraid. I watch movies old-school,
    on the TV...

    > This things may help me, and in future others, to start useing FreeBSD
    > as primary OS.


    It's fine for that: so long as what you want to use it for is stuff that
    it can do...

    > Sory this post is maybe a bit too long. Thank you. Vasko


    'sok. It's a big subject. Hope some of these pointers have helped.

    --
    Andrew

  6. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    In article
    jpd writes:
    >Begin
    >On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:43:07 -0800 (PST),
    >spacerogue5@yahoo.com wrote:
    >
    >>> There is none. For questions about FreeBSD you are welcome here. For
    >>> discussing the C programming language I would suggest the newsgroup
    >>> comp.lang.c

    >>
    >> I understand. Any questions about programming on the FreeBSD platform
    >> go here.

    >
    >Unless you're doing really FreeBSD specific things you're probably better
    >off in comp.lang.c or comp.unix.programmer or some place like that.
    >
    >Most programs should be written so that they can be made to run on many
    >different unix systems with little effort.


    And a heads up, if your questions are at all Unix oriented, ask
    them in comp.unix.programmer (or such) and not in comp.lang.c. If
    you are having a really lucky day, you may get a useful answer in
    comp.lang.c, but most likly you will be told that your question is
    OS specific and doesn't belong there. (The comp.lang.c charter is
    apparently discussion of *standard* C and they try not to drift too
    far.)

    Some people are nicer that others in those responses.

    --
    Drew Lawson | What is an "Oprah"?
    drew@furrfu.com | -- Teal'c
    http://www.furrfu.com/ |

  7. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...


    wrote:
    >
    > OK. I was looking for the general rules on posting here, so i could
    > not offend somebody.


    That's ok, general netiquette applies. Furthermore, I don't think "we" are
    an easily offended bunch.

    > I understand. Any questions about programming on the FreeBSD platform
    > go here.


    Well, no... If you have questions about specific FreeBSD programming
    questions, then this group is where you want to be. But not for other, more
    general, issues.

    Please, do not think "we" (who is "we" anyway) are not a warm, kind and
    helpful group. I, myself, am constantly surprised about the level of detail
    and general helpfulness others in this group offer to random strangers.

    You are welcome here. But it has to be FreeBSD related, ok? We're not a
    general helpdesk. At least, I'm not.

    >> recommend the book "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Enviroment" by W.

    >
    > Thanks. I need some time to look into the book.


    Really, *any* introductory book on unix programming will help you get
    started.
    Perhaps this can get you started, I've not read it myself.

    http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/

    >> If you want to use your computer as you did, the easiest way is to
    >> reinstall
    >> Windows.

    >
    > Why? Do you think that i cannot use DesktopBSD for the usual work i
    > did on Windows?


    No, I actually *do* think FreeBSD (don't know DesktopBSD) can be an
    excellent desktop system. However, if you are new to it, be prepared for a
    lot of little frustrations as you try to get the system to work how you
    want. This gets easier over time, and you will learn a lot about BSD and
    "the unix way".

    On the positive side, there is excellent documentation available. The
    Handbook is especially recommended. And there are tons of articles on how to
    make stuff happen.

    See http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html

    But, back to my original comment, if you want a replacement for Microsoft
    Windows and expect to have everything working out-of-the-box and have a
    smooth transition, well, then forget about it and re-install Windows.

    In essence: don't change if you don't accept the work and learning that
    comes with it. If you *are* prepared to invest the time to actually learn
    the system, you might be pleasantly surprised. FreeBSD is very, very user
    friendly, if you know the system well enough.

    > Listen to music and watch movies. That i know how to do in DesktopBSD.


    I'm using the Gnome desktop environment with all the tools that come with
    it. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/

    And VLC plays everything I throw at it, including DVD iso's.

    > Connect to the eDonkey network. aMule?


    I don't use them. But if you need peer-to-peer, you might look into
    BitTorrent.

    > And the most frequent use of my computer i have is for converting .avi
    > files into VCDs and DVDs.


    I've never needed this. If there is no program for FreeBSD, you can (with
    some easy trickery) run Linux software on FreeBSD. See chapter 10 of the
    Handbook at http://www.freebsd.org

    > VirtualDub and TMpegEnc are the programs i mostly depend on.


    Perhaps CinePaint can replace VirtualDub. http://www.cinepaint.org/
    TMpegEnc seems to be an Mpeg 1 encoder. I _think_ you can do that with
    Mplayer, but I'm not sure.

    > There are many books on programming in Windows,
    > but i need this kind of a book for FreeBSD. Somehow i have assumed
    > that there are many people here who have migrated from Windows and
    > some of them were programming on the win32 API that now program on the
    > FreeBSD platform. I guess i was wrong.


    Microsoft Windows is a "all in one" solution. It provides the typical
    operating system functionality (process scheduling, resource management,
    etc..), it has a desktop environment, window manager and some bundled
    software.

    With FreeBSD (or any unix-like system, really) that is not how it is.
    FreeBSD is the operating system and nothing more. It is just the kernel and
    some userland tools. This gives you a system that runs in 80 by 25 textmode,
    no graphics, no nothing.

    If you want graphics, you install a software program to make that happen.
    X.org is one such program. This gives you basic (very basic!) windowing.
    Want more? Fine, then you can install a window manager (there are several
    you can choose) or even a desktop environment (again, you can choose which
    one you like best).

    Ok, now if you want to write programs for "FreeBSD", you actually write
    software with (for example) the GTK+ toolkit for your user interface. That
    is not part of FreeBSD, it is a completely different project.
    (http://www.gnome.org/ for more info).

    You asked for a book on programming for FreeBSD. That means that you will be
    using the C standard library and not much more. No windows, no graphics, no
    sound, ...

    As for actual applications (for a desktop user) you have to look at the
    documentation for Gnome, KDE or any other environment. This is not part of
    FreeBSD.

    > Before installing a second OS to Windows, i did a research on the net
    > on the variable solutions and i have decided to give the FreeBSD a
    > head of QNX and Ubuntu. Despite the inner working differences, they
    > are all some sort of Unix or Unixoid.


    Ok, I know I'm getting flak for this from both sides, but I really think
    that for a normal desktop user it doesn't matter if you run the Ubuntu
    GNU/Linux system or FreeBSD with an appropiate desktop environment. The
    underlying operating system is the same, from that point of view. Yes,
    administration will be different, but once the system works, it's all the
    same.

    It depends on the type of programs you want to write if this difference
    matters to you. If you are going to write GUI applications with GTK+, it
    doesn't matter much. If you are going to write a new device driver, then
    yes, it will matter.

    > I don't have the
    > enthusiasm as i did 20 years earlier, so i just want to get it working
    > the easiest way.


    If you have to get a system up and running *now*, and you don't have the
    time to learn the basics, you might be better off with another system.

    However, I want to ask you to browse through the Handbook, just to get a
    feel for FreeBSD (or DesktopBSD). Then, ask yourself what kind of programs
    you will write.

    For GUI applications read either the GTK+ documentation for the Gnome
    desktop environment or the developers documentation for the KDE desktop
    environment.

    http://www.gtk.org/overview.html
    http://developer.kde.org/documentati...loper-faq.html

    Or, look at http://www.wxwidgets.org/ , this will make your programs
    portable to most platforms.

    For general C programming, well, just start coding! ;-)

    Old introductory, but might be useful:
    http://www.iu.hio.no/~mark/unix/unix.html#SEC153


    Long story, but I wanted to give you some pointers that can get you started.


    An anecdote to conclude this comment:

    A long time ago, I have been where you are now. I came from GNU/Linux
    (Mandrake, now Mandriva) and I was severely unhappy with it. The endless
    tinkering to get anything done was tiring. Then I stumbled upon FreeBSD, and
    expected more of the same. However, there are some differences that make it
    all happy-happy joy-joy for me. First, there is the excellent documentation
    (and I can't stress this enough). Second, not ever has a technical question
    I had been left unanswered by this group and/or the forums. Third, FreeBSD
    feels like the quality system it is and it has never let me down. It's not
    free, it's priceless!


    Buisman



  8. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    Begin <47a1e53e$0$85790$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:11:57 +0100, Buisman wrote:
    > Please, do not think "we" (who is "we" anyway) are not a warm, kind and
    > helpful group. I, myself, am constantly surprised about the level of detail
    > and general helpfulness others in this group offer to random strangers.


    An interesting question. I like to think I know who I am, and I think
    I have a fair idea of at least the writing style of some of the other
    posters who regularly post here. Your nym, however, I can't recall
    seeing used in this group before your previous message. Curious.


    [snip!]
    > With FreeBSD (or any unix-like system, really) that is not how it
    > is. FreeBSD is the operating system and nothing more. It is just the
    > kernel and some userland tools. This gives you a system that runs in
    > 80 by 25 textmode, no graphics, no nothing.


    Worse, you get that only by virtue of artefact. Had the
    peecee ``architecture'' not included a screen and keyboard on which
    FreeBSD provides a number of virtual terminals, it would've depended
    on the particular terminal that happens to be attached to the console
    port (absent virtual terminals, usually serial ports). True, most
    terminals tend to support 80x25 this way or another, but it is by no
    means guaranteed. That and other reasons is why terminal programming is
    generally abstracted using terminfo/termcap.



    [snippety]
    > Ok, I know I'm getting flak for this from both sides, but I really think
    > that for a normal desktop user it doesn't matter if you run the Ubuntu
    > GNU/Linux system or FreeBSD with an appropiate desktop environment.


    It doesn't insofar as the ``normal desktop user'' is not also his own
    admin. Most home users are also their own admin, whether they neglect
    the task (with all dire consequences), or not.

    If you choose to run a unix yourself, you are generally expected to at
    least take care of the most basic administrative duties also, and thus
    are expected to know something about it.

    Of course, once you understand enough of the structure of unix systems
    in general and have administrated a few it again becomes much less
    important[1] which one you have at hand, apart from preference.

    This doesn't mean you can advocate linux in here with impunity,
    especially since all that is best kept confined to COLA.


    [1] As always, exceptions excepted. SCO comes to mind for some reason.

    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  9. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:43:07 -0800, spacerogue5 wrote:

    > And the most frequent use of my computer i have is for converting .avi
    > files into VCDs and DVDs.


    Read up on ffmpeg and mplayer/mencoder.

  10. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    In article <47a1e53e$0$85790$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
    Buisman wrote:

    > wrote:


    >> OK. I was looking for the general rules on posting here, so i could
    >> not offend somebody.


    >That's ok, general netiquette applies. Furthermore, I don't think
    >"we" are an easily offended bunch.


    .....

    >> VirtualDub and TMpegEnc are the programs i mostly depend on.


    >Perhaps CinePaint can replace VirtualDub. http://www.cinepaint.org/
    >TMpegEnc seems to be an Mpeg 1 encoder. I _think_ you can do that with
    >Mplayer, but I'm not sure.


    The general consensus is that almost nothing comes close to TMPGenc
    When it comes to encoding/recoding. I've had some recoding
    take up to 12 hours - but the results - particularly with
    the noise reduction - are really good. You'll have to stick
    with XP or I think Windows 2000/ 2003 for that.

    I use XP primarily for video and audio work and FreeBSD for the
    rest.

    Bill
    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

  11. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...


    "jpd" wrote:
    >
    > I like to think I know who I am, and I think
    > I have a fair idea of at least the writing style of some of the other
    > posters who regularly post here. Your nym, however, I can't recall
    > seeing used in this group before your previous message. Curious.


    That's a mystery I can solve. I'm a lurker here and do not post all that
    much. What's more, I change my pseudo fairly often. In the pre-WWW era I
    posted with my real credentials and didn't realise that it all could come
    back to mess up my life later. Now it is a habit that's hard to break,
    although there isn't a good reason to not use my real name anymore.

    >> 80 by 25 textmode, no graphics, no nothing.

    >
    > Worse, you get that only by virtue of artefact. [...] True, most
    > terminals tend to support 80x25 this way or another, but it is by no
    > means guaranteed. That and other reasons is why terminal programming is
    > generally abstracted using terminfo/termcap.


    Very true. When I was a student there were labs where the terminals
    consisted of a printer with a keyboard. Haven't used them much as they were
    replaced with a "glass TTY" soon after.

    > If you choose to run a unix yourself, you are generally expected to at
    > least take care of the most basic administrative duties also, and thus
    > are expected to know something about it.


    For a desktop user/admin who doesn't need to run exotic hard- or software a
    lot of 'adminning' can be done through the desktop GUI. If that's sufficient
    in the long run to keep the system up to date and secure, probably not.

    > This doesn't mean you can advocate linux in here with impunity,
    > especially since all that is best kept confined to COLA.


    I'm not recalling advocating GNU/Linux here. Yes, I mentioned it as an
    alternative, which it is. If anything, I made very clear that I'm not all
    that fond of it.

    Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, I tossed an old RedHat system today
    and replaced it with a brandspanking new shiny FreeBSD 6.3 database server.

    > j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .


    Ah, I see you are geographically less than a mile away from me, if you're on
    campus, that is ;-)


    Buisman



  12. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    Begin <47a204fe$0$85778$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:27:26 +0100, Buisman wrote:
    > In the pre-WWW era I posted with my real credentials and didn't
    > realise that it all could come back to mess up my life later. Now it
    > is a habit that's hard to break, although there isn't a good reason to
    > not use my real name anymore.


    That choice is up to you, of course. I'm fairly happy I first started on
    fidonet so the worst goofs are likely lost in the mists of time. As to
    real names, well.... I do appreciate nyms staying the same at least for
    the same audience. If only to reduce confusion.


    >> If you choose to run a unix yourself, you are generally expected to
    >> at least take care of the most basic administrative duties also, and
    >> thus are expected to know something about it.

    >
    > For a desktop user/admin who doesn't need to run exotic hard- or
    > software a lot of 'adminning' can be done through the desktop GUI. If
    > that's sufficient in the long run to keep the system up to date and
    > secure, probably not.


    Personally, I dislike guis, but that isn't the point. More important is
    that even with fancy klickibunti interfaces you need to understand some
    of what is going on to be able to administrate it. Nothing is acceptable
    substitute for clue, but GUIs unfortunately are often presented as such.


    [snip!]
    > Ah, I see you are geographically less than a mile away from me, if
    > you're on campus, that is ;-)


    Not currently. As a matter of fact, the only time I lived that close to
    the campus was before the block we lived in was demolished.


    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  13. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    Buisman wrote:
    > > And the most frequent use of my computer i have is for converting .avi
    > > files into VCDs and DVDs.

    >
    > I've never needed this. If there is no program for FreeBSD, you can (with
    > some easy trickery) run Linux software on FreeBSD. See chapter 10 of the
    > Handbook at http://www.freebsd.org
    >
    > > VirtualDub and TMpegEnc are the programs i mostly depend on.

    >
    > Perhaps CinePaint can replace VirtualDub. http://www.cinepaint.org/
    > TMpegEnc seems to be an Mpeg 1 encoder. I _think_ you can do that with
    > Mplayer, but I'm not sure.


    I have done a lot of that with mplayer (more specifically mencoder),
    and i can also recomment avidemux and k9copy. With those you can
    basically do everything you can do in Windows with mpegs and avis.

    --

    Michel TALON


  14. Re: Beginner info, the FAQ, programming...

    On Jan 31, 11:12 pm, ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr (Michel Talon) wrote:
    > Buisman wrote:
    > > > And the most frequent use of my computer i have is for converting .avi
    > > > files into VCDs and DVDs.

    >
    > > I've never needed this. If there is no program for FreeBSD, you can (with
    > > some easy trickery) run Linux software on FreeBSD. See chapter 10 of the
    > > Handbook athttp://www.freebsd.org

    >
    > > > VirtualDub and TMpegEnc are the programs i mostly depend on.

    >
    > > Perhaps CinePaint can replace VirtualDub.http://www.cinepaint.org/
    > > TMpegEnc seems to be an Mpeg 1 encoder. I _think_ you can do that with
    > > Mplayer, but I'm not sure.

    >
    > I have done a lot of that with mplayer (more specifically mencoder),
    > and i can also recomment avidemux and k9copy. With those you can
    > basically do everything you can do in Windows with mpegs and avis.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Michel TALON


    Hi

    Thank you all. Now i need some time to understan the things you all
    said.
    I have read the handbook, not all of it, but some parts prior to
    installing DesktopBSD. I still have win2000 on the same HDD with BSD.
    Everything was well. First thing i did was to archive the parttition
    where windows is resideing, now i can do pretty mutch anything.

    The OS is layers of software above layers of software. So far i was
    used to ask questions, when dealing with windows, about the whole
    package. I can see that you all are sugesting that this is the right
    place to post about the kernel. When asking about the desktop
    environment, i'll have to ask elsewere. Not the way i am used to
    think, but no problem.

    I am familiar with comp.lang.c. That group has such a vast quantity of
    information, that you need not ask a question. You can find the answer
    by searching the keywords of the question.

    I cannot say that i am an expert at C or Pascal programming, but there
    is nothing mutch that can confuse me. About pure C, i mean. I used to
    love C++ but if anyone know what is MFC, then he can understand why i
    have stoped useing it.

    I come from the home computer age. I know very well how those devices
    work, from a programers point of a view. I didn't get the transver on
    time to the PC till it was vary late. Even then i have studied the PC
    as a home computer. Nothing mutch than a CPU + VGA + SoundBlaster or
    Gravis + Serial + Centronics.
    I don't like mainframe computers, even thought long time have i used
    one at work. Alpha station with VMS. Over the years of work on that
    machine my practice was to learn how to fix something by reading the
    help and the manuals, fix it and then forget all i have learned at the
    next sleep or maybe earlier. Doing that from time to time i have
    noticed how mutch good documentation it has and how mutch powerful and
    yet simple commands/tools the VMS has. In other words, clever design.
    If i had another life i would probubly study VMS or UNIX, but this i
    will spent on personal computers. If it isn't for Desktop or PC-BSD i
    would not be here.
    Still, there is similarity in the way (i think) Unix shell users work
    and the way i work. I am very comfortable with DOS, and to this day i
    still use it to perform work under windows. The only C compiler i use
    is Borland Command Line 5.5 and most of my code is writen in edit.
    I've had some short expirience with GCC, but years ago, and nothing to
    complain with. I know you all Unix people dislike DOS even better than
    Windows, but for starters look here:
    http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/info/html...nux-HOWTO.html

    It will take time and experimentation to transver my everyday "work"
    to DesktopBSD, but i think it can be done. When i learn how, i can
    teach others like me in a couple of hours. That sounds strange but
    people don't like to change the way they do things, because they need
    all the time they can have for other activities. Later, by time, we
    can learn the new ways.

    Thanks again, now i will try some things you have mentioned.
    Vasko

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