Preparations for an upcoming upgrade - BSD

This is a discussion on Preparations for an upcoming upgrade - BSD ; Hi - I'm new to BSD, and therefore I have never upgraded an existing system. Currently I'm running 6.2-RELEASE-p9 on VIA EN12000 hardware (thus not awefully fast), and I will have to upgrade to the 6.3-RELEASE soon. My kernel is ...

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Thread: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

  1. Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Hi -

    I'm new to BSD, and therefore I have never upgraded an existing system.

    Currently I'm running 6.2-RELEASE-p9 on VIA EN12000 hardware (thus not
    awefully fast), and I will have to upgrade to the 6.3-RELEASE soon.

    My kernel is a customized one (stripped down to the essentials), and I
    used custom install at setup to install base, kernels, man, and src
    (base, include, sys), only. The rest (about 10 ports plus dependencies)
    has been installed from the ports collection.

    From Lucas' book [1] I learned that I have to decide whether to use
    sysinstall for a binary upgrade or upgrading via source, and in addition
    use portmaster and alike for upgrading installed ports. Right?

    Now I come to my (silly) questions w.r.t. upgrade via source:

    1. If I unstand Lucas correctly, he discourages from using an uncomplete
    source tree which I have. Correct?
    2. If I had to install a complete mirror of the source tree (csup) will
    that lead me to an installation of previously unselected programs
    like X? (I bet no, but could you please be so kind and reconfirm that
    only previously installed distributions will be upgraded?)
    3. Has mergemaster pitfalls worth mentioning for a newbie?
    4. Given my hardware and my rather lean installation, what do I need to
    calculate for sparse diskspace and compilation time?

    Any references that answer my questions are highly appreciated as well.

    Thanks in advance,
    Michael

    [1] Absolute FREEBSD, 2nd edition
    --
    to let

  2. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Begin
    On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:23:10 +0000 (UTC),
    Michael Grimm wrote:
    > From Lucas' book [1] I learned that I have to decide whether to use
    > sysinstall for a binary upgrade or upgrading via source, and in addition
    > use portmaster and alike for upgrading installed ports. Right?


    Those are two separate issues, really. The FreeBSD ports system is a
    way to install programs/things/whatnot in addition to the base system.
    You can either upgrade the base system with binaries (sysinstall or the
    newer binary update thing), or you can fetch the source and build it
    (make buildworld, make buildkernel, make installkernel, make installworld).

    In either case you'll have to take care of your config files. Back up
    /etc and run mergemaster.

    Your custom kernel will not be available as a binary from third parties
    so you'll have to provide it yourself in some way. You could go back to
    GENERIC for during the upgrade, of course.

    Once you've succeeded upgrading base you can start thinking about ports.
    Since you're staying with the same major version number your existing
    ports should keep on working.


    > Now I come to my (silly) questions w.r.t. upgrade via source:
    >
    > 1. If I unstand Lucas correctly, he discourages from using an uncomplete
    > source tree which I have. Correct?


    You do need a full src tree to do a full kernel + world rebuild. If
    you mean something else, please elaborate.


    > 2. If I had to install a complete mirror of the source tree (csup) will
    > that lead me to an installation of previously unselected programs
    > like X? (I bet no, but could you please be so kind and reconfirm that
    > only previously installed distributions will be upgraded?)


    If you get a complete mirror of the source tree, you get exactly
    that. The ports tree resides somewhere else (in /usr/ports instead of
    /usr/src) and can be retrieved separately or at the same time using
    c[v]sup. What you do with all that next is something else again.


    > 3. Has mergemaster pitfalls worth mentioning for a newbie?


    Back up all your config files so you can undo all your changes and try
    again. Beyond that, reading mergemaster(8) should be on your TO DO list.


    > 4. Given my hardware and my rather lean installation, what do I need to
    > calculate for sparse diskspace and compilation time?


    It heavily depends on just what you're intending to compile. My /usr/obj
    takes 866MB, /usr/src takes 467MB, and /usr/ports takes something like
    that right until you're starting to compile things. If you compile large
    things and leave the working directories around it can explode something
    fierce. The simple answer is that if you're building a server and not a
    workstation with large apps and graphical desktop environments, a couple
    of gigabytes would probably do it.

    As for time, give it a day or two. Kernel+world will probably take a
    few hours, but use time(1) and you know.


    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  3. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    jpd wrote:
    > Michael Grimm wrote:


    >> From Lucas' book [1] I learned that I have to decide whether to use
    >> sysinstall for a binary upgrade or upgrading via source, and in
    >> addition use portmaster and alike for upgrading installed ports.
    >> Right?

    >
    > Those are two separate issues, really. The FreeBSD ports system is a
    > way to install programs/things/whatnot in addition to the base system.


    I think I'm beginning to understand where my misinterpretations come
    from ... ;-)

    During my initial installation I did chose a custom install and did only
    select the distributions base, include, man, and an incomplete src tree
    aka base, include, man, and sys, not games, contrib, and alike. Thus
    only those parts of the source tree have been installed, ok.

    Does that mean that I did install an incomplete base system? Or does
    "base system" only stands for those binaries in the base src tree?

    And furthermore, if I would have chosen the X.org distribution, would
    that have been installed from the ports collection because I cannot find
    references to X in the src tree?

    Let my clarify my obscurity: If I go for an upgrade via source, and if I
    do therefore need to have the complete FBSD source tree installed, will
    a final "make installworld" install programs from e.g. games as well? If
    so, how could I prevent this?

    > In either case you'll have to take care of your config files. Back up
    > /etc and run mergemaster.


    Yep.

    > Your custom kernel will not be available as a binary from third
    > parties so you'll have to provide it yourself in some way. You could
    > go back to GENERIC for during the upgrade, of course.


    I did already consider to switch back to GENERIC during upgrade.

    > Once you've succeeded upgrading base you can start thinking about
    > ports. Since you're staying with the same major version number your
    > existing ports should keep on working.


    Yep, that was my plan, too.

    >> 1. If I unstand Lucas correctly, he discourages from using an
    >> uncomplete source tree which I have. Correct?

    >
    > You do need a full src tree to do a full kernel + world rebuild. If
    > you mean something else, please elaborate.


    see above.

    >> 3. Has mergemaster pitfalls worth mentioning for a newbie?

    >
    > Back up all your config files so you can undo all your changes and try
    > again. Beyond that, reading mergemaster(8) should be on your TO DO
    > list.


    I tend to be very careful ;-)

    >> 4. Given my hardware and my rather lean installation, what do I need
    >> to calculate for sparse diskspace and compilation time?

    >
    > It heavily depends on just what you're intending to compile. My
    > /usr/obj takes 866MB, /usr/src takes 467MB, and /usr/ports takes
    > something like that right until you're starting to compile things. If
    > you compile large things and leave the working directories around it
    > can explode something fierce. The simple answer is that if you're
    > building a server and not a workstation with large apps and graphical
    > desktop environments, a couple of gigabytes would probably do it.


    Yes, it's a server, and I do have 10 sparse GBs available.

    > As for time, give it a day or two. Kernel+world will probably take a
    > few hours, but use time(1) and you know.


    Thanks,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  4. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Begin
    On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 20:42:41 +0000 (UTC),
    Michael Grimm wrote:
    > Does that mean that I did install an incomplete base system? Or does
    > "base system" only stands for those binaries in the base src tree?


    The ``base system'' is, roughly, everything that comes in a
    distribution--that what sysinstall will install for you and is not a
    package (port). The base distribution set is, since 6.* along with the
    kernels distribution set, the minimum you need to install to get a
    working system[1]. The other distribution sets are somehow related to
    the base set but not always needed or wanted.

    The src distribution is exactly that: the sources needed to compile the
    base system. There are no binaries in src.


    > And furthermore, if I would have chosen the X.org distribution, would
    > that have been installed from the ports collection because I cannot find
    > references to X in the src tree?


    I didn't think FreeBSD still had an X distribution set. AFAIK it has
    been moved completely to ports (and since Xorg 7, a very large number
    of very small ports).

    For the rest, see Helmut's followup.


    [1] And can be used to compile itself. Some other systems put the
    compiler and toolchain in a different distribution set.

    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  5. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Helmut Schneider wrote:
    > Michael Grimm wrote:


    >> During my initial installation I did chose a custom install and did
    >> only select the distributions base, include, man, and an incomplete
    >> src tree aka base, include, man, and sys, not games, contrib, and
    >> alike. Thus only those parts of the source tree have been installed,
    >> ok.
    >>
    >> Does that mean that I did install an incomplete base system? Or does
    >> "base system" only stands for those binaries in the base src tree?

    >
    > The source tree consists of all files necessary to compile components.
    > It has nothing to do with what you have installed. Components are
    > base, catpages, crypto, dict, doc, games, info, manpages, ports,
    > proflibs, and src. See
    > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.2R...tion-i386.html


    Ok, here they are called "distribution components", in sysinstall they
    are referred to as "distributions":

    | Please check off the distributions you wish to install. At the very
    | minimum, this should be "base".

    Thanks, I do consider this clarified now ;-)

    >> And furthermore, if I would have chosen the X.org distribution, would
    >> that have been installed from the ports collection

    >
    > Well, it would have been installed from a package. And that package
    > previously was built from a port. http://www.freebsd.org/ports/


    Ok, that's exactly what I meant.

    >> Let my clarify my obscurity: If I go for an upgrade via source, and
    >> if I do therefore need to have the complete FBSD source tree
    >> installed, will a final "make installworld" install programs from
    >> e.g. games as well?

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >> If so, how could I prevent this?

    >
    > man make.conf, NO_GAMES


    Thanks again, *that* was my missing link :-) I should have had a closer
    look to the Makfiles in /usr/src as well :-(

    > HTH


    Yes

    Reg"Gruß"ards,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  6. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    jpd wrote:
    > Michael Grimm wrote:


    >> Does that mean that I did install an incomplete base system? Or does
    >> "base system" only stands for those binaries in the base src tree?

    >
    > The ``base system'' is, roughly, everything that comes in a
    > distribution--that what sysinstall will install for you and is not a
    > package (port). The base distribution set is, since 6.* along with the
    > kernels distribution set, the minimum you need to install to get a
    > working system[1]. The other distribution sets are somehow related to
    > the base set but not always needed or wanted.
    >
    > The src distribution is exactly that: the sources needed to compile
    > the base system. There are no binaries in src.


    Sorry for my unprecise questions in my previous postings. Due to
    Helmut's -DNO_GAMES hint I do now understand how I can prevent
    unwanted distribution components to become installed.

    >> And furthermore, if I would have chosen the X.org distribution, would
    >> that have been installed from the ports collection because I cannot
    >> find references to X in the src tree?

    >
    > I didn't think FreeBSD still had an X distribution set. AFAIK it has
    > been moved completely to ports (and since Xorg 7, a very large number
    > of very small ports).


    Under "Select the distributions you wish to install." in sysinstall
    you'll find:

    | [ ] X.Org The X.Org distribution

    Thanks,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  7. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Michael Grimm wrote:
    > Helmut Schneider wrote:
    >> Michael Grimm wrote:
    >>> Let my clarify my obscurity: If I go for an upgrade via source, and
    >>> if I do therefore need to have the complete FBSD source tree
    >>> installed, will a final "make installworld" install programs from
    >>> e.g. games as well?

    >>
    >> Yes.
    >>
    >>> If so, how could I prevent this?

    >>
    >> man make.conf, NO_GAMES

    >
    > Thanks again, *that* was my missing link :-) I should have had a closer
    > look to the Makfiles in /usr/src as well :-(


    Also take a look at
    http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2007...n-upgrade.html
    http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2007...n-upgrade.html

    While you still have to compile your custom kernel yourself, freebsd-update
    updates/upgrades only components that actually are installed. While with
    <=6.2 you have to fetch the newest version of freebsd-update before starting
    the upgrade, it is *much* faster than recompiling the system yourself. BUT:
    to learn more about FreeBSD one should have made kernel and world at least
    once himself.

    Also keep in mind that of course you can compile the custom kernel on a
    faster machine (if available) and then copy /boot/kernel ('scp -p
    /boot/kernel $remote_host:/boot/' or so).

    --
    No Swen today, my love has gone away
    My mailbox stands for lorn, a symbol of the dawn


  8. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Begin
    On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 23:19:05 +0000 (UTC),
    Michael Grimm wrote:
    > Under "Select the distributions you wish to install." in sysinstall
    > you'll find:
    >
    >| [ ] X.Org The X.Org distribution


    *checks sysinstall source* Yes, but all it does is install packages, not
    a ``distribution set'' such as those that contain base, man, and so on.


    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

  9. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Michael Grimm writes:

    > Sorry for my unprecise questions in my previous postings. Due to
    > Helmut's -DNO_GAMES hint I do now understand how I can prevent
    > unwanted distribution components to become installed.


    I'd advise you not to bother. Install the whole base system (unless
    you're trying to fit the whole system into a small disk space, like
    less than half a gigabyte). It will be less confusing in the future
    and avoid potential problems where you remove something you might
    need.

    Games, admittedly, isn't needed, but it's only a couple of megabytes
    since all of the real games in it were moved to ports a few years
    ago. And most of that is the text for fortune(6).

  10. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Helmut Schneider wrote:

    > While you still have to compile your custom kernel yourself,
    > freebsd-update updates/upgrades only components that actually are
    > installed. While with <=6.2 you have to fetch the newest version of
    > freebsd-update before starting the upgrade, it is *much* faster than
    > recompiling the system yourself. BUT: to learn more about FreeBSD one
    > should have made kernel and world at least once himself.


    I decided to go for the latter, because my VIA Eden server only needed
    2.5 hours for a make buildworld.

    > Also keep in mind that of course you can compile the custom kernel on
    > a faster machine (if available) and then copy /boot/kernel ('scp -p
    > /boot/kernel $remote_host:/boot/' or so).


    First I was thinking about compiling on my Mac/Parallels desktop, but
    the speed of my server is better than anticipated ;-)

    Regards,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  11. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Lowell Gilbert wrote:
    > Michael Grimm writes:


    >> Sorry for my unprecise questions in my previous postings. Due to
    >> Helmut's -DNO_GAMES hint I do now understand how I can prevent
    >> unwanted distribution components to become installed.

    >
    > I'd advise you not to bother. Install the whole base system (unless
    > you're trying to fit the whole system into a small disk space, like
    > less than half a gigabyte). It will be less confusing in the future
    > and avoid potential problems where you remove something you might
    > need.


    And what about the r-commands? I wanted to get rid of them completely.
    In addition I wanted to discard sendmail because I'm using exim instead.
    But I will think about your recommendations.

    Regards,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  12. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:01:50 UTC, Michael Grimm
    wrote:

    > I decided to go for the latter, because my VIA Eden server only needed
    > 2.5 hours for a make buildworld.
    >
    > > Also keep in mind that of course you can compile the custom kernel on
    > > a faster machine (if available) and then copy /boot/kernel ('scp -p
    > > /boot/kernel $remote_host:/boot/' or so).

    >
    > First I was thinking about compiling on my Mac/Parallels desktop, but
    > the speed of my server is better than anticipated ;-)


    Pretty good, aren't they? I have a couple of Luke servers too, and they
    are great.

    --
    Bob Eager
    UNIX since v6..
    http://tinyurl.com/2xqr6h


  13. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Bob Eager wrote:
    > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:01:50 UTC, Michael Grimm wrote:


    [VIA Eden]
    >> First I was thinking about compiling on my Mac/Parallels desktop, but
    >> the speed of my server is better than anticipated ;-)

    >
    > Pretty good, aren't they?


    Yep ;-) This server is the successor of my P5-200 mail and news server,
    and it was a giant step w.r.t. speed. But I didn't anticipated an 1.2GHz
    C7 to be that fast.

    IIRC 7.0 will have optimizations for C7s, correct?

    BTW, do you optimize your base system and kernel by setting CPUTYPE in
    make.conf? If so, to i686?

    Regards,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  14. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:23:29 UTC, Michael Grimm
    wrote:

    > Yep ;-) This server is the successor of my P5-200 mail and news server,
    > and it was a giant step w.r.t. speed. But I didn't anticipated an 1.2GHz
    > C7 to be that fast.
    >
    > IIRC 7.0 will have optimizations for C7s, correct?
    >
    > BTW, do you optimize your base system and kernel by setting CPUTYPE in
    > make.conf? If so, to i686?


    No; mine are C3s, so I set CPUTYPE to c3! I also made sure the 'padlock'
    module is loaded; see padlock (4). I thought you said you had an Eden,
    or perhaps that was someone else...

    --
    Bob Eager
    UNIX since v6..
    http://tinyurl.com/2xqr6h


  15. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    Bob Eager wrote:
    > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:23:29 UTC, Michael Grimm wrote:


    >> IIRC 7.0 will have optimizations for C7s, correct?
    >>
    >> BTW, do you optimize your base system and kernel by setting CPUTYPE
    >> in make.conf? If so, to i686?

    >
    > No; mine are C3s, so I set CPUTYPE to c3! I also made sure the
    > 'padlock' module is loaded; see padlock (4). I thought you said you
    > had an Eden, or perhaps that was someone else...


    Thanks for the pointer to padlock, that was new to me.

    Hmm, my board is an EN12000EG with a VIA C7 cpu [1], recognized by the
    kernel as:
    CPU: VIA C7 Esther+RNG+AES+AES-CTR+SHA1+SHA256+RSA \
    (1197.01-MHz 686-class CPU)

    Always believed that the cpu is referenced as Eden. Sorry for that.

    And according to /usr/share/examples/etc/make.conf ...
    # (Via CPUs) c3 c3-2
    .... there's no c7, yet. That's why I asked, and because I read somewhere
    (forgot about where) that this CPUTYPE should be available in 7_0.

    I tried CPUTYPE?=i686 in make.conf, and the buildkernel didn't complain,
    but I'm unsure whether this setting won't harm.

    Regards,
    Michael
    --
    to let

  16. Re: Preparations for an upcoming upgrade

    On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:36:54 UTC, Michael Grimm
    wrote:

    > > No; mine are C3s, so I set CPUTYPE to c3! I also made sure the
    > > 'padlock' module is loaded; see padlock (4). I thought you said you
    > > had an Eden, or perhaps that was someone else...

    >
    > Thanks for the pointer to padlock, that was new to me.
    >
    > Hmm, my board is an EN12000EG with a VIA C7 cpu [1], recognized by the
    > kernel as:
    > CPU: VIA C7 Esther+RNG+AES+AES-CTR+SHA1+SHA256+RSA \
    > (1197.01-MHz 686-class CPU)
    >
    > Always believed that the cpu is referenced as Eden. Sorry for that.


    No problem. They're all Biblical! The Luke CoreFusion actually has a
    Nehemiah CPU...

    > And according to /usr/share/examples/etc/make.conf ...
    > # (Via CPUs) c3 c3-2
    > ... there's no c7, yet. That's why I asked, and because I read somewhere
    > (forgot about where) that this CPUTYPE should be available in 7_0.


    It's all down to gcc, really. As I recall, there's precious little
    difference, and just p4 will also do. It's only optimisation, and so
    much of that is CPU-internal. It's only if it's going to use specific
    features.


    --
    Bob Eager
    UNIX since v6..
    http://tinyurl.com/2xqr6h


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