Sounds good in theory, but will it work? - Aix

This is a discussion on Sounds good in theory, but will it work? - Aix ; We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server. I'm an AIX admin, not an Oracle admin. We don't have an Oracle admin on staff. I need to ensure some level of recovery (somewhat quickly) in case ...

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Thread: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

  1. Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

    We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server.
    I'm an AIX admin, not an Oracle admin. We don't have an Oracle admin
    on staff.

    I need to ensure some level of recovery (somewhat quickly) in case of a
    total disaster; building burns down, tornado hits,... whatever. I'm
    not looking for anything fancy and costly like clusters or
    (a)synchronous replication. What I do have is a full hot backup every
    night with RMAN and an offsite DR facility.

    Here are my thoughts...
    Buy a second AIX server (I have a quote for a p520 dual proc) for our
    DR site. Backup the rootvg (mksysb). On the weekends shut down the
    Oracle database and do a savevg on the data vg's. Bring Oracle backup
    and continue to do full RMAN backups durring the week.

    Build the new server at the DR sight with the mksysb. If a disaster
    happens, then I could take the savevg(s) to the DR facility and restore
    those vgs. This should give me a fully functional Oracle server as of
    the weekend backup. Then I could use the RMAN backups to restore to
    the weekly full backup. With this process we could potentionally loose
    a full days work, but we are comfortable with this risk.

    Has anyone done anything like this? Think it will work? What are your
    thoughts?


  2. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?


    TB wrote:
    > We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server.
    > I'm an AIX admin, not an Oracle admin. We don't have an Oracle admin
    > on staff.
    >
    > I need to ensure some level of recovery (somewhat quickly) in case of a
    > total disaster; building burns down, tornado hits,... whatever. I'm
    > not looking for anything fancy and costly like clusters or
    > (a)synchronous replication. What I do have is a full hot backup every
    > night with RMAN and an offsite DR facility.
    >
    > Here are my thoughts...
    > Buy a second AIX server (I have a quote for a p520 dual proc) for our
    > DR site. Backup the rootvg (mksysb). On the weekends shut down the
    > Oracle database and do a savevg on the data vg's. Bring Oracle backup
    > and continue to do full RMAN backups durring the week.
    >
    > Build the new server at the DR sight with the mksysb. If a disaster
    > happens, then I could take the savevg(s) to the DR facility and restore
    > those vgs. This should give me a fully functional Oracle server as of
    > the weekend backup. Then I could use the RMAN backups to restore to
    > the weekly full backup. With this process we could potentionally loose
    > a full days work, but we are comfortable with this risk.
    >
    > Has anyone done anything like this? Think it will work? What are your
    > thoughts?


    Transmit a copy of the nightly rman backup either with or including the
    archived redo logs plus the control file to the diaster site on a daily
    basis. Then in the event of a diaster you could recover to the last
    backup. If you transmit the archived redo logs on a frequent basis you
    can limit the potential loss period.

    HTH -- Mark D Powell --


  3. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?


    TB wrote:
    > We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server.


    Oracle DataGuard does not exist in 8i R3.
    It was introduced in 9i and is quite mature in 10g.
    Perhaps if you upgrade to a newer, supported release you can use
    provided utilities to meet your objectives without rolling your own.
    The practice of managing a standby database within Oracle is a
    time-honored one, whether its managed (dataguard) or handled by
    roll-your-own scripts.

    > I'm an AIX admin, not an Oracle admin. We don't have an Oracle admin
    > on staff.
    >
    > I need to ensure some level of recovery (somewhat quickly) in case of a
    > total disaster; building burns down, tornado hits,... whatever. I'm
    > not looking for anything fancy and costly like clusters or
    > (a)synchronous replication. What I do have is a full hot backup every
    > night with RMAN and an offsite DR facility.


    does the rman backup include archived redo logs.
    wait, is the database running in archivelog mode?
    If not, are the rman backups performed in a mount state?
    have you ever restored such backup sets and recovered them?
    It is Backup/Restore/Recovery after all, not just "backup".

    > Here are my thoughts...
    > Buy a second AIX server (I have a quote for a p520 dual proc) for our
    > DR site. Backup the rootvg (mksysb). On the weekends shut down the
    > Oracle database and do a savevg on the data vg's. Bring Oracle backup
    > and continue to do full RMAN backups durring the week.


    Depending upon the size of the database and transaction volume (redo
    log generation) it might be more efficient to only ship the archived
    redo logs. If unrecoverable operations take place, they are not
    propagated in the archived redo log stream and other methods would need
    to be used (such as what you describe above).

    > Build the new server at the DR sight with the mksysb. If a disaster
    > happens, then I could take the savevg(s) to the DR facility and restore
    > those vgs. This should give me a fully functional Oracle server as of
    > the weekend backup. Then I could use the RMAN backups to restore to
    > the weekly full backup. With this process we could potentionally lose
    > a full days work, but we are comfortable with this risk.


    Congrats on determining this design parameter (acceptable loss of data,
    "recovery point objective")

    > Has anyone done anything like this? Think it will work? What are your
    > thoughts?


    After the day's worth of data is lost in this database but exists in
    other databases you might think otherwise. If it really is stand-alone
    data or can be easily re-entered/reloaded good for you. You really
    don't know until you tell the application owner "we have lost 5 hours
    of transactions due to a corrupt archived redo log that we cannot
    recover through".

    What is the recovery time objective, or how long after the disaster is
    declared is the system expected to be up and running? A standby
    database might reduce the mean time to recovery.

    You appear to be well along your way to producing a solution.
    Seeing that you're on 8i R3, you will have to do alot more work
    yourself rather than leveraging functionality provided by the vendor
    that you may already be licensing.

    -bdbafh


  4. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?


    "bdbafh" wrote in message
    news:1163053419.755323.88880@h54g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
    >
    > TB wrote:
    >> We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server.

    >
    > Oracle DataGuard does not exist in 8i R3.
    > It was introduced in 9i and is quite mature in 10g.


    No but the good old Standby database did exist and could serve these
    purposes quite well.

    Cheers

    Richard



  5. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

    On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:21:10 +0000, Richard Foote wrote:

    > No but the good old Standby database did exist and could serve these
    > purposes quite well.


    I was hired once to untangle old spaghetti Perl code used to copy redo
    logs on Oracle8 databases and it has had feature that current data guard
    does not have: it would activate the database if it detected that the
    primary is out.
    I don't know how useful is that, especially if you need to do maintenance
    from time to time, but it was a plug-in replacement for DG and it was
    quite ingenious.

    --
    http://www.mladen-gogala.com


  6. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

    That is scary to me, we never allow a standby to activate itself. If we
    are in a true DR type situation we want to manually bring them up
    ourselves. A loss of network connectivity could easily cause a problem
    to happen, and unless they are using the once unsupported then later
    supported method for swapping standby's in 8i, you only get to activate
    the database once and then you have to start rebuilding the original
    standby, a huge pain.

    Honestly, I would suggest contracting out the work to get a standby
    built in another server for you. You can do it your way, restore the
    filesystems and then use RMAN to restore the DB (long outage), or build
    an 8i standby (best option).

    I work for a company that does contract work to small/medium IT
    companies and we have built out 8i standby's for other people. You
    would be looking at about 10-20 hours labor costs as long as the other
    server was built out in advanced. This would include design, scripting,
    documenting, and testing. Shouldn't be a big deal price wise to get a
    good, correctly built solution. You should be able to find a qualified
    contractor DBA that still knows how to do an 8i standby pretty easily.

    Mike Fullerton
    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:21:10 +0000, Richard Foote wrote:
    >
    > > No but the good old Standby database did exist and could serve these
    > > purposes quite well.

    >
    > I was hired once to untangle old spaghetti Perl code used to copy redo
    > logs on Oracle8 databases and it has had feature that current data guard
    > does not have: it would activate the database if it detected that the
    > primary is out.
    > I don't know how useful is that, especially if you need to do maintenance
    > from time to time, but it was a plug-in replacement for DG and it was
    > quite ingenious.
    >
    > --
    > http://www.mladen-gogala.com



  7. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:21:10 +0000, Richard Foote wrote:
    >
    > > No but the good old Standby database did exist and could serve these
    > > purposes quite well.

    >
    > I was hired once to untangle old spaghetti Perl code used to copy redo
    > logs on Oracle8 databases and it has had feature that current data guard
    > does not have: it would activate the database if it detected that the
    > primary is out.


    I believe 10gR2 Dataguard Broker is suppose to handle auto failover
    now, check out the dataguard broker pdf.

    Pete's


  8. Re: Sounds good in theory, but will it work?

    bdbafh wrote:
    > TB wrote:
    >> We have Oracle 8.1.7 running on an IBM p615 single processor server.

    >
    > Oracle DataGuard does not exist in 8i R3.




    Actually, Oracle Dataguard 3.0.2 for 8i on AIX is (or at least was!)
    available, it just wasn't delivered as part of the Oracle RDBMS. We ran
    it for a number of years on our SAP 4.0B system before upgrading to SAP
    4.7E with Oracle 9iR2.

    It works quite differently than the 9i/10g versions, being an external
    set of processes for the log copy and apply rather than using an
    additional ARCH process. However, this actually made it more useful
    over slow links because you could "fall behind" on the archive copies
    without affecting the re-use of the online logs.

    I doubt it's still available on the Oracle site, but at less than 6MB
    including documentation I could possibly give up a copy if asked! Or is
    that just asking for trouble?

    Andy.


    PS - if you are looking at purchasing a p520 I would seriously consider
    making that the production server and moving the p615 into the DR role!

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