How good are F50 and H50 - Aix

This is a discussion on How good are F50 and H50 - Aix ; Hello, I have an old 7044 -170 (44p) which is running AIX 5.1 currently. However I'm not too fond of it because it's slow and compilations take up to an hour of time. It has like 1 gb of ram ...

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Thread: How good are F50 and H50

  1. How good are F50 and H50

    Hello,

    I have an old 7044 -170 (44p) which is running AIX 5.1 currently. However
    I'm not too fond of it because it's slow and compilations take up to an hour
    of time.
    It has like 1 gb of ram which is all fine.

    I am looking for faster equiptment though to run AIX 5.3 and get faster
    compiles.
    In this relation I was offered a F50 with two cpu's or perhaps a H50.

    Would this be a good upgrade speed wise or is there anything I should be
    aware of?

    Thanks.

    -- Henrik



  2. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    On Oct 12, 3:57 am, "Henrik Goldman"
    wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have an old 7044 -170 (44p) which is running AIX 5.1 currently. However
    > I'm not too fond of it because it's slow and compilations take up to an hour
    > of time.
    > It has like 1 gb of ram which is all fine.
    >
    > I am looking for faster equiptment though to run AIX 5.3 and get faster
    > compiles.
    > In this relation I was offered a F50 with two cpu's or perhaps a H50.
    >
    > Would this be a good upgrade speed wise or is there anything I should be
    > aware of?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > -- Henrik


    Henrik: I would suggest firstly that you have a look at IBM's
    performance report
    ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/common/ss...O03002USEN.PDF
    which compares the relative capacity of all pSeries and RS/6000
    models. It will give
    you a fairly good if rough idea of what to expect.
    How much RAM do the F50 and H50 have. More RAM might help your
    compiles
    as well.

    HTH

    Jim Lane


  3. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    In article <470f3376$0$53247$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>, "Henrik Goldman"
    writes:
    > The primary usage is g++ compiler with C++ code. The software we have takes
    > up to an hour to compile and consist of many different modules that needs to
    > be processed.
    > I don't know how many lines there are but a safe bet is above 50000 lines or
    > likely much more.
    >


    One hour for some 50000 lines of code seems exceptionally slow.
    Did you look at other bottlenecks i.e. network etc (if the
    filesystem is remotely mounted) ?

    > I am looking for faster equiptment though to run AIX 5.3 and get faster
    > compiles.
    > In this relation I was offered a F50 with two cpu's or perhaps a H50.


    I believe the F50 isn't supported under 5.3.
    Moreover, though being a good and stable box, its technology
    is older than a decade now (PPC604e @ 333MHz). A 44P is more recent
    (Power3), so swapping it for an F50 would rather be a downgrade.
    Whether you can benefit from the multiple CPUs
    of a F50 depends on if you can find your other bottlenecks.

  4. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    In article <1192188462.488768.190390@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.c om>,
    Jim.Lane@cibc.com writes:
    > How much RAM do the F50 and H50 have. More RAM might help your
    > compiles
    > as well.


    1GB in a 44P-170 is a good start, it maxes out at 4x512MB, IIRC.
    The F50, being an older machine, can hold only 512MB out-of-the-box.
    For more you need extra memory boards, occasionally seen on eBay.

  5. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    An F50 is a move up from an 44p. If the current firmware is installed
    on the F50 then it CAN run AIX 5.3
    If you business has F50 in house then I'd jump at the chance.
    If you have to purchase then I would look at a power5 system. The new
    power6 is almost goingto be announced and the price on the power5
    should drop. The power5 will run AIX 5.3


  6. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    In article <1192196993.165730.53550@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>, LarryBoy
    writes:
    > An F50 is a move up from an 44p.


    In which way ?
    The 44P's are one generation younger
    and are - in my experience - at least a factor 1.5 faster
    in both number crunching as well as compilation.
    Leaving aside show-stoppers like slow network
    and not enough memory, of course.

    > If the current firmware is installed
    > on the F50 then it CAN run AIX 5.3


    That's new to me. I thought that the F50 barely
    escaped the drop of 5.2 support for 'beige' systems.
    And that the 43P-150 was the last of the PPC systems
    to run 5.3.

    > If you business has F50 in house then I'd jump at the chance.
    > If you have to purchase then I would look at a power5 system. The new
    > power6 is almost goingto be announced


    There's a Power6 entry level system ?

    > and the price on the power5
    > should drop. The power5 will run AIX 5.3
    >


    Hardly, if there's no replacement for entry level machines.

  7. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    > One hour for some 50000 lines of code seems exceptionally slow.
    > Did you look at other bottlenecks i.e. network etc (if the
    > filesystem is remotely mounted) ?


    It's purely the cpu speed which is the limiting factor here.
    Not disk, not memory or anything else.
    We know this because have another linux machine (inside vmware) with only
    128 mb ram and it compiles the same code in like 10 minutes.

    The compilation is slow because the code is shared between many applications
    using it. There is very little further optimization that can be done
    unfortunatly.


    > I believe the F50 isn't supported under 5.3.
    > Moreover, though being a good and stable box, its technology
    > is older than a decade now (PPC604e @ 333MHz). A 44P is more recent
    > (Power3), so swapping it for an F50 would rather be a downgrade.
    > Whether you can benefit from the multiple CPUs
    > of a F50 depends on if you can find your other bottlenecks.


    Thank you for your input. This is certainly a valid reason for not going
    down this road.
    A stable machine for 5.3 is the minimum requirements to be able to get
    anywhere. Otherwise it's no better then what we have today.

    -- Henrik



  8. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    > Henrik: I would suggest firstly that you have a look at IBM's
    > performance report
    > ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/common/ss...O03002USEN.PDF
    > which compares the relative capacity of all pSeries and RS/6000
    > models. It will give
    > you a fairly good if rough idea of what to expect.


    Thanks! Thats a good link.

    > How much RAM do the F50 and H50 have. More RAM might help your
    > compiles
    > as well.
    >


    I was offered a machine with 1 gb ram. I really doubt it's the ram which is
    the problem though.
    Our current build machine also has 1 gb and doesn't even use half the memory
    as far as I can see.

    The g++ processes are not taking a whole lot and their execution time is
    only a few seconds.
    I think I've seen usage up to about 250 mb within one process.
    Only if AIX doesn't clear the memory very fast obviously it would be a
    concern. However I'm sure that AIX is fairly up to speed with memory
    management techniques.

    -- Henrik



  9. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    > 1GB in a 44P-170 is a good start, it maxes out at 4x512MB, IIRC.
    > The F50, being an older machine, can hold only 512MB out-of-the-box.
    > For more you need extra memory boards, occasionally seen on eBay.


    Thats very good to know!

    Obviously the big question would be what I should look after (e.g. on Ebay)
    if I would be looking for something better than this 44P.

    Btw... did I mention that AIX does a very good job replacing an office
    heater? :-)
    You just need some sun and a beach and then you can feel you're already in
    the tropical parts of the world.
    Anyway we try to have the machine turned off as much as possible to not
    cause our building to consume too much electricity.
    With the slow build times it's even just more encouraging :-)

    -- Henrik



  10. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    Henrik Goldman schrieb:

    > It's purely the cpu speed which is the limiting factor here.
    > Not disk, not memory or anything else.
    > We know this because have another linux machine (inside vmware) with only
    > 128 mb ram and it compiles the same code in like 10 minutes.


    Well, if this PC is a more recent model and runs at some 3+ GHz,
    this would explain some of the difference ( 3GHz vs 300+ MHz ).

    There's a remote chance that the 44P uses less memory than you
    expect. If one of the memory modules turns bad, AIX reconfigures,
    reboots and continues with reduced memory
    (just had this experience with one of my 44Ps).
    You will loose both modules of a DIMM pair this way.
    You can check the "usable" amount of memory via smitty.

    > I think I've seen usage up to about 250 mb within one process.


    This rings a bell. 256MB is AIX's segment size. So maybe
    the compiler hits a wall here. But I'm not an expert on that one,
    I never had compile jobs that large.

    > Obviously the big question would be what I should look after
    > (e.g. on Ebay)
    > if I would be looking for something better than this 44P.


    Power4 based IntelliStations come to mind.
    They run at 1GHz and are showing up relatively cheap on the used market
    (including eBay).

    IBM offers new p185/p285 IntelliStations which most probably will beat
    your PC, but cost some $$$$.

    > Btw... did I mention that AIX does a very good job
    > replacing an office heater ?


    It's certainly not AIX that gives you the heat :-)
    I lived for several years with a 44P under my desk
    and I don't feel I should complain.
    An F50 OTOH is nothing I would want in my office.


  11. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    I realize you want to purchase new hardware. Just so we aren't
    spreading FUD
    the 44P-170 will run AIX 5.3.


  12. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    > > Btw... did I mention that AIX does a very good job
    > > replacing an office heater ?

    >
    > It's certainly not AIX that gives you the heat :-)
    > I lived for several years with a 44P under my desk
    > and I don't feel I should complain.
    > An F50 OTOH is nothing I would want in my office.
    >


    Yeah sorry I was thinking on the 44P machine obviously.
    Well I agree with you on not having the IBM machines in the office. I've
    said that from Day-1. :-)

    I think maybe my next project should be to make a "great wall of the daily
    random AIX bug" :-)
    Actually I got 3 free walls so I should get started right now ...

    -- Henrik



  13. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    On Oct 12, 11:23 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > Henrik Goldman schrieb:
    >
    > > It's purely the cpu speed which is the limiting factor here.
    > > Not disk, not memory or anything else.
    > > We know this because have another linux machine (inside vmware) with only
    > > 128 mb ram and it compiles the same code in like 10 minutes.

    >
    > Well, if this PC is a more recent model and runs at some 3+ GHz,
    > this would explain some of the difference ( 3GHz vs 300+ MHz ).
    >
    > There's a remote chance that the 44P uses less memory than you
    > expect. If one of the memory modules turns bad, AIX reconfigures,
    > reboots and continues with reduced memory
    > (just had this experience with one of my 44Ps).
    > You will loose both modules of a DIMM pair this way.
    > You can check the "usable" amount of memory via smitty.
    >
    > > I think I've seen usage up to about 250 mb within one process.

    >
    > This rings a bell. 256MB is AIX's segment size. So maybe
    > the compiler hits a wall here. But I'm not an expert on that one,
    > I never had compile jobs that large.
    >
    > > Obviously the big question would be what I should look after
    > > (e.g. on Ebay)
    > > if I would be looking for something better than this 44P.

    >
    > Power4 based IntelliStations come to mind.
    > They run at 1GHz and are showing up relatively cheap on the used market
    > (including eBay).
    >
    > IBM offers new p185/p285 IntelliStations which most probably will beat
    > your PC, but cost some $$$$.
    >
    > > Btw... did I mention that AIX does a very good job
    > > replacing an office heater ?

    >
    > It's certainly not AIX that gives you the heat :-)
    > I lived for several years with a 44P under my desk
    > and I don't feel I should complain.
    > An F50 OTOH is nothing I would want in my office.


    Strangely enough several years ago I actually had an F50 under my
    desk.
    It was inside a locked machine room so security and heat weren't a
    problem but it was a bit noisier than a PC, I'll say that.

    -Jim Lane


  14. Re: How good are F50 and H50

    In news:470fb64b$0$2084$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk ,
    Henrik Goldman typed:

    > The g++ processes are not taking a whole lot and their execution time
    > is only a few seconds.

    [...]


    Try to look at disk subsystem. I had something similar. A lot of small
    files to compile; the build took ages. I found that during compilation
    there were hundred's of little writes to /tmp. I had /tmp on a very slow
    disk, so I moved it to a fast SAN array and the build time decreased
    significantly.

    I hit the same problem on another system - OpenBSD. I put /tmp on
    ramdisk, and the compilation was rapid.


    --
    Regards
    Piotr Kapczuk


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